Feeling shame in becoming someone that I was not.

[Depression = 72% of members]

I always felt shame in becoming someone that I was not.  I am not an angry person, I am not an inconsiderate person, I am not a selfish person.  I don't keep score and retaliate and I never did seek revenge. Revenge is never satisfying and I knew in my heart that it would not solve anything and make me feel better.   As the years passed, I became disgusted with myself for tolerating abuse for so long.  I'm not referring to physical abuse but passive aggressive abuse.  Yes, I would get angry in the moment because I knew that was being done to me was being done with intention and purpose aimed to hurt me for some obscure reason that was never revealed to me.   My abusive dynamic was very challenging because to continually ' rise above' the abuse only led to more and more abuse and I always paid dearly no matter what. By staying and tolerating, I was teaching him that I would ' take it' and fix and repair all the damage he created for us.  It's not in my realm of thinking to even imagine wanting to harm someone.  It seems so unnatural to me and so, it took me a very long time to accept that as long as I stayed, I was always going to be his target. 

[Leaving]

I always felt shame in becoming someone that I was not.  I am not an angry person, I am not an inconsiderate person, I am not a selfish person.  I don't keep score and retaliate and I never did seek revenge. Revenge is never satisfying and I knew in my heart that it would not solve anything and make me feel better.   As the years passed, I became disgusted with myself for tolerating abuse for so long.  I'm not referring to physical abuse but passive aggressive abuse.  Yes, I would get angry in the moment because I knew that was being done to me was being done with intention and purpose aimed to hurt me for some obscure reason that was never revealed to me.   My abusive dynamic was very challenging because to continually ' rise above' the abuse only led to more and more abuse and I always paid dearly no matter what. By staying and tolerating, I was teaching him that I would ' take it' and fix and repair all the damage he created for us.  It's not in my realm of thinking to even imagine wanting to harm someone.  It seems so unnatural to me and so, it took me a very long time to accept that as long as I stayed, I was always going to be his target. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hi Leaving, I have been in your shoes.  I'm a kind and considerate person, very gentle, yet my BPDxW would bully and taunt me until she got a reaction out of me.  In phase one, I was a doormat for her rage.  In phase two, I decided to fight fire with fire and gave back as much abuse as she gave me.  I'm not proud of some things I did or said.  In phase three, I practiced disengagement and withdrew emotionally, which didn't leave much of a marriage.  In the end, I was not myself in my marriage, which is no place to be.  Now I'm out of the marriage and back on my path, being true to myself again.  Today I strive for authenticity.  LuckyJim

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Leaving-

You could feel shame, that's one option, and maybe there's a purpose in there?  It can be helpful to also remember the difference between guilt and shame: we feel guilt when we did something we think is bad, we feel shame when we think we are bad.

Anyway, what are some other options, what else could you make it mean?  My relationship was much shorter than yours, but it took a hell of a lot of strength to keep my head above water and my feet somewhat on the ground when I was in it, what with all of the crap coming at me from someone with a mental illness.  How strong did you need to be to survive in that environment?  Have you given yourself credit for that lately?  It is very difficult when we've got a version of the relationship we want in our heads, and the reality is just not measuring up, not even close, yet we forge ahead anyway; what kind of commitment and resolve does it take to do that, in the face of nothing but challenge?  How can you use the strength and the resolve you developed, those emotional muscles, moving forward?  How strong will that make you in the future?  Please find a couple of things and tell us.

[LeftSidePain]

Hi Leaving, I have been in your shoes.  I'm a kind and considerate person, very gentle, yet my BPDxW would bully and taunt me until she got a reaction out of me.  In phase one, I was a doormat for her rage.  In phase two, I decided to fight fire with fire and gave back as much abuse as she gave me.  I'm not proud of some things I did or said.  In phase three, I practiced disengagement and withdrew emotionally, which didn't leave much of a marriage.  In the end, I was not myself in my marriage, which is no place to be.  Now I'm out of the marriage and back on my path, being true to myself again.  Today I strive for authenticity.  LuckyJim

Same here... .

I am ashamed of what I turned into. I wasn't a door mat at all until I got to old or matured enough to fight back abusively. It was abuse pure and simple from verbal to at times physical. She was hitting me in the head with a belt buckle and I was holding her down on the bed yelling at her to stop interrupting me when I talk and that was when I had enough. I wasn't this person. I wasn't going to be this person either.

I remember to this day sitting in my car on the way home from work and thinking I am to old for all of this. I just want some peace.

In the last two or three years of our relationship I stopped fighting back. I learned to deal with our conflict in a couple ways. The first way was logic. I had to ask ":)id you or did you not do this?" on and on until it turned into either her slumped over crying hysterically or she put her face in her hands shook her head back and forth saying "no, no, no, no... " and running into the other room locking the door. Seriously... .

The second way was to say "You're right, I'm wrong. You win" and walk away. Either way I was left holding the bag and still no closer to a resolution to the problem then when I started.

The outbursts in public were wearing on me as well. Before I'd bicker with her like an old couple until one day I seen she was doing it on purpose. Actually looking around the room to see who was watching me turn into an ass and her the victim of my verbal abuse. So i stopped.

When she would act out I would look at her and say "Please stop. Not tonight" and go back to what I was doing. The last time was so outrageous the entire restaurant stopped and looked at her. You could hear a pin drop and I replied "Please stop. Not tonight." and she physically pulled back from me almost falling out of her chair as if I back handed her across the mouth. It was very odd to watch. Still haunted by it actually.

I do know that after I stopped fighting back it was like she didn't know what to do and started withdrawing from me more. It was about a week after the last restaurant outburst she left me.

I'm still ashamed of what I turned into. Glad I was able to see it and change it and even happier I have learned better ways of dealing with conflict in the future.

[glaciercats]

I have been in the same exact place.  I have never been an abusive person in my life.  But she would keep on me until she would cause me to snap.  I am not proud of the things I have said or done in the situation that I was in.

I would try to stay calm when she would bombard me with question after question.  I would try to not respond or tell her that I needed to go into the other room until she calmed down.  But it was almost like she wanted to make me snap on purpose.  She would follow me from room to room.  She would get in my personal space and keep asking the same questions until I would finally lie and tell her what she wanted to hear in order to get her to give me space.  I could not be me.  I could not talk it out and tell her how I was feeling and have an adult conversation about anything.  She would stay on me.  I would finally have enough and I would yell.  I felt like I was forced into saying horrible things just so she could hold it against me and throw it in my face.  And believe me she would.  I became so withdrawn and stayed in bed a lot so I didn't have to deal with her.  And she would also be so passive aggressive. 

I wish we could have talked it out.  But she was not able to do that.  She still blames me for everything and says my words are what caused her to act the way she did.  She doesn't see that her actions caused my words and she never will. She is unwilling to get help for her BPD and blames everyone else for the way she acts.  I know she will never be happy until she will admit to her problem and get the help she needs.  I do not know what else I can do for her.  I love her and worry about her everyday, but I can no longer go through a life where I have to walk on eggshells.  Its always about her feelings and needs and never was about what I needed in return.  Sorry for the long rant.  Needed to vent, .

[Lucky Jim]

Well said, glaciercats.  I could have written your post.  Perhaps we had the same SO?  Just kidding . . .   LuckyJim

[glaciercats]

Hey LuckyJim,

Maybe so, haha!  Oh man it is so draining isn't it?  Just typing that out and getting it off of my chest made me feel a little better.  So glad I'm not alone!

[clydegriffith]

I always felt shame in becoming someone that I was not.  I am not an angry person, I am not an inconsiderate person, I am not a selfish person.  I don't keep score and retaliate and I never did seek revenge. Revenge is never satisfying and I knew in my heart that it would not solve anything and make me feel better.   As the years passed, I became disgusted with myself for tolerating abuse for so long.  I'm not referring to physical abuse but passive aggressive abuse.  Yes, I would get angry in the moment because I knew that was being done to me was being done with intention and purpose aimed to hurt me for some obscure reason that was never revealed to me.   My abusive dynamic was very challenging because to continually ' rise above' the abuse only led to more and more abuse and I always paid dearly no matter what. By staying and tolerating, I was teaching him that I would ' take it' and fix and repair all the damage he created for us.  It's not in my realm of thinking to even imagine wanting to harm someone.  It seems so unnatural to me and so, it took me a very long time to accept that as long as I stayed, I was always going to be his target. 

This sounds like me. Before crossing paths with the BPDx, i had always been a very calm, easygoing, outspoken, strong and thoughtful man. After less than a year with a BPDx (who used a child to trap me), i became human doormat with lots of anger inside because of the situation. Looking back on it, in a way, i somewhat welcomed the next BPD episode she would have as these were the only times i would tell her what i really thought about her. That being said, i would always revert back to my shell and let her get away with one crazy thing after another. Each incident worse than the last. She knew she had me and she even once said, "you should stop telling people about what goes on between us because you're just going to look stupid when they see we're still together".

I may not be as kind as you as words could not describe the joy i would get out of some sort of revenge. Be it getting custody of my daughter or anything else that would cause her extreme grief. Mental disorder or not, i have no sympathy for her.

[Deeno02]

Im well aware of the feeling, Leaving. I put the r/s over my own well being. In return, I lost my confidence and, in essence became a total doormat. Im very ashamed of this because its NOT who I am, at all.

[Leaving]

Hi Leaving-

You could feel shame, that's one option, and maybe there's a purpose in there?  It can be helpful to also remember the difference between guilt and shame: we feel guilt when we did something we think is bad, we feel shame when we think we are bad.

Anyway, what are some other options, what else could you make it mean?  My relationship was much shorter than yours, but it took a hell of a lot of strength to keep my head above water and my feet somewhat on the ground when I was in it, what with all of the crap coming at me from someone with a mental illness.  How strong did you need to be to survive in that environment?  Have you given yourself credit for that lately?  It is very difficult when we've got a version of the relationship we want in our heads, and the reality is just not measuring up, not even close, yet we forge ahead anyway; what kind of commitment and resolve does it take to do that, in the face of nothing but challenge?  How can you use the strength and the resolve you developed, those emotional muscles, moving forward?  How strong will that make you in the future?  Please find a couple of things and tell us.

Hi Heeltoheal,

LOVE YOUR NAME!  What a wonderfully appropriate name! 

Thank you, thank you and thank you for reminding me of my strength and ability to endure. It's difficult for me to see myself in a positive light.  I'm actually going to print your words and use them to help me change my resume.

I keep trying to tell myself that I'm strong and have a lot of courage and wisdom and can use those to help me get a job and a place to live that I can afford. 

To answer your question about feeling shame in becoming someone that I was not, Yes, I do feel bad in that I feel I have betrayed myself and my values and my morals for staying in this marriage with a man who opposed them all. I feel as though I have betrayed G-d and my purpose in this life.

I have learned a great deal from my suffering in my marriage and I believe it was necessary to endure what I did with my husband because I needed to reach a place of healing with my NPD/BPD mother.  I've learned a great deal from my marriage about my N/BPD mother and myself during my childhood and my adulthood and deep down, I do believe that all of ' that' was to prepare me for something greater when I was finally ready to receive it.  While I feel peace and comfort in the wisdom I've gained from both experiences, I'm currently in the process of having to rebuild my life from ground zero at age 53 and frankly, I feel very overwhelmed and defeated some days.  I feel like so many forces of nature are upon me- bad economy, age, lack of money. I've been in total isolation for over 5 years which limits my resources in that I don't have any children, friends or family to help me.  I'm fighting but I'm not always fighting hard enough for my new life.  I think this is partly due to being so exhausted and worn down that I'm afraid if I put myself out there too much, I might burn out even worse than I am if I don't get some type of positive return on my investment.  What I mean is that every time I don't get a job I feel even worse and I have to dig even deeper for strength and courage to keep going.  What if I run out of strength?  I feel like I'm sitting on the edge of a cliff and that the slightest breeze could knock me over.  Sorry to sound like Debbie Downer but I'm just having a bad day today.

[Leaving]

Im well aware of the feeling, Leaving. I put the r/s over my own well being. In return, I lost my confidence and, in essence became a total doormat. Im very ashamed of this because its NOT who I am, at all.

Deeno,

You're right." this is not who we are" and we need to realize that the person we truly are is still inside us.  I didn't fully realize how truly different and detached I had become with myself until last summer when I was cleaning a book case and found a ring binder with a scientific paper/experiment in it.  I began reading through the pages wondering why I had kept this and just assumed a friend of mine had conducted the study and I wanted to keep it for sentimental reasons.  Finally at the end of the paper I saw my own signature and literally panicked.  Me?  I did this? Oh my gosh I sat and cried and cried.  Who was she?  Where did she go? I was so ashamed that I could barely even stand being in my own skin.  What I allowed one cowardly sick man to do to me was truly shameful.  I had sold myself so short, given up on myself, betrayed myself and allowed him to rob me of my creativity, my intelligence, my friends, my family, my passions, my work AND my money.

So, it's time for us to pick ourselves up and build a new life slowly- one healthy moment at a time.  I pray that each of us will have the good health and the time to rebuild.  When I read stories like LuckyJim's and how he managed to gain freedom and is now on the road to recovery, I feel hopeful that I too will get that opportunity. This is truly the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life!  I think I'd rather drink  a pig's liver smoothie than do this!

[Leaving]

I have been in the same exact place.  I have never been an abusive person in my life.  But she would keep on me until she would cause me to snap.  I am not proud of the things I have said or done in the situation that I was in.

I would try to stay calm when she would bombard me with question after question.  I would try to not respond or tell her that I needed to go into the other room until she calmed down.  But it was almost like she wanted to make me snap on purpose.  She would follow me from room to room.  She would get in my personal space and keep asking the same questions until I would finally lie and tell her what she wanted to hear in order to get her to give me space.  I could not be me.  I could not talk it out and tell her how I was feeling and have an adult conversation about anything.  She would stay on me.  I would finally have enough and I would yell.  I felt like I was forced into saying horrible things just so she could hold it against me and throw it in my face.  And believe me she would.  I became so withdrawn and stayed in bed a lot so I didn't have to deal with her.  And she would also be so passive aggressive. 

I wish we could have talked it out.  But she was not able to do that.  She still blames me for everything and says my words are what caused her to act the way she did.  She doesn't see that her actions caused my words and she never will. She is unwilling to get help for her BPD and blames everyone else for the way she acts.  I know she will never be happy until she will admit to her problem and get the help she needs.  I do not know what else I can do for her.  I love her and worry about her everyday, but I can no longer go through a life where I have to walk on eggshells.  Its always about her feelings and needs and never was about what I needed in return.  Sorry for the long rant.  Needed to vent, .

Glacier,

My husband would also badger me/bait me into fights by following me around the house.  When I would give in and just tell him what he wanted to hear, he knew I was faking or just patronizing him and the badgering would escalate. It's a no-win- always a no win.   In those moments, I rarely lost my temper but I did lose my sanity and had to call the police twice to have him removed from the house.  I literally thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown and I think that I actually did a few times.  Even to this day when something triggers me my hands will tremble, my stomach falls and a huge wave of adrenaline surges through my body.  One of the crazy things my husband would do is constantly throw his money on the ground or the floor and leave it there.  People that would come to our house would comment on the money and ask why it was all over the ground outside. When I'm in the store and I hear someone drop a coin, I feel like I'm going to faint.  I guess this means I'll never work as a cashier or at the Federal reserve.  hahahha

As far as worrying about your ex, don't waste time worrying.  Seriously. My therapist told me that my husband is a shrewd survivor who will always find someone to care for him. He will always find someone to give him attention, money, sympathy and anything else he needs.  I believe her.  I've seen him in action.  It's truly amazing what he's capable of.  Darwin would be proud of him and consider me a complete evolutionary failure 

[Leaving]

Hi Leaving, I have been in your shoes.  I'm a kind and considerate person, very gentle, yet my BPDxW would bully and taunt me until she got a reaction out of me.  In phase one, I was a doormat for her rage.  In phase two, I decided to fight fire with fire and gave back as much abuse as she gave me.  I'm not proud of some things I did or said.  In phase three, I practiced disengagement and withdrew emotionally, which didn't leave much of a marriage.  In the end, I was not myself in my marriage, which is no place to be.  Now I'm out of the marriage and back on my path, being true to myself again.  Today I strive for authenticity.  LuckyJim

Jim,

I've noticed a pattern or theme in relationships with BPD's where they seem to choose strong independent partners who are also nurturing and kind and sensitive.  They want what they admire- strong person but then they bully them once they realize that the strong person threatens their image and ego.   My husband has NPD/BPD and he chose me because I was strong, professional and successful and independent because that is what he wanted to be. He's a sponge who absorbs other people's identities.  It was like he needed to absorb my identity and once he did that, he saw me as competition and began bullying me and breaking me down.  I was then trapped in his mirror.  He turned me into him by stealing my identity and leaving me with literally no identity.  All this happened so quietly and slowly. 

[ivan da terrible]

Leaving,

Your pattern theory is pretty good.  In my case, my BPDw was looking for someone to play the role of her absent father, who left after her mother died when she was 8.  She went to live with her grandmother and her husband.  It was a very tragic story and I felt deep sorrow for the emotional pain she experienced.  I wanted to be the knight in shinning armor.  5 years later, I left.  My health was shot, and I was at an emotional low point.  I began to rebuild my life, and two years later, I am in a much healthier place.  There is hope, but we must love ourselves enough to make it happen. 

In summation, they want someone to give them what they are missing, and when they discover their child like fantasy isn't perfection, that is when they begin to devalue us. 

[glaciercats]

Leaving,

You are so right.  It truly is a no win situation.  When I would tell her what she wanted to hear she would say I was only telling her that to shut her up.  I wanted to be like DUH of course that's what I'm doing, because if I tell you the truth or how I am really feeling then this would go on even longer.  They never care about our needs or about how we are feeling inside.  Only about what we can do for them.  They are so emotionally shallow and it is so draining to say the least.

I am newly out of this relationship and  trying the no contact thing.  I was doing really good until she started blowing up my work phone earlier.  I finally had to answer because she just would not stop.  They force us to be mean to them.  They force us to answer questions that we don't want to answer.  And if we answer them truthfully then we are so mean to them.  I tried to not answer and to keep my cool but she would not stop.  It makes something inside me snap and I am so sick of her tears and crying and being so pitiful.  And I tired of everything being blamed on me and that I am her sole reason for living.  Like she can not possibly have a life without me.

I think after this last conversation I am over the point of worrying about herl.  I am going to start worrying about me and fixing the damage she has done to me.  I can not take this turmoil any longer.  Sorry for the rant, !  

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, Leaving,

Yes, before going through the BPD wringer, I was strong, professional, successful and independent, so I would say that I fit the pattern you describe.  I agree that the erosion of one's identity is a slow, insidious process where you lose an inch here and an inch there, until one day you look around and realize that you've lost a mile.  I forgot who I was for a while there, which was a terrible feeling.

Yet it's possible to emerge from the BPD quagmire, which I liken to the Cave of the Minotaur, which Theseus, in the Greek Myth, escaped by following the thread leading him out of the Labyrinth.  By analogy, I would suggest that one needs to rediscover and follow the symbolic thread of one's life, in order to get out of the BPD Cave alive.  I hope this makes sense and doesn't sound pretentious.

LuckyJim

[nowwhatz]

Hello again, Leaving,

Yes, before going through the BPD wringer, I was strong, professional, successful and independent, so I would say that I fit the pattern you describe.  I agree that the erosion of one's identity is a slow, insidious process where you lose an inch here and an inch there, until one day you look around and realize that you've lost a mile.  I forgot who I was for a while there, which was a terrible feeling.

Yet it's possible to emerge from the BPD quagmire, which I liken to the Cave of the Minotaur, which Theseus, in the Greek Myth, escaped by following the thread leading him out of the Labyrinth.  By analogy, I would suggest that one needs to rediscover and follow the symbolic thread of one's life, in order to get out of the BPD Cave alive.  I hope this makes sense and doesn't sound pretentious.

LuckyJim

Lucky Jim I love the Greek Myth analogy... .gives me hope thank you!

My r/s with the BPDgf has been like the Greek Myth Sisyphus who was eternally sentenced to push a huge boulder to the top of a mountain only to see if fall over the edge... .then have to do it all over again forever.

[Leaving]

Hello again, Leaving,

Yes, before going through the BPD wringer, I was strong, professional, successful and independent, so I would say that I fit the pattern you describe.  I agree that the erosion of one's identity is a slow, insidious process where you lose an inch here and an inch there, until one day you look around and realize that you've lost a mile.  I forgot who I was for a while there, which was a terrible feeling.

Yet it's possible to emerge from the BPD quagmire, which I liken to the Cave of the Minotaur, which Theseus, in the Greek Myth, escaped by following the thread leading him out of the Labyrinth.  By analogy, I would suggest that one needs to rediscover and follow the symbolic thread of one's life, in order to get out of the BPD Cave alive.  I hope this makes sense and doesn't sound pretentious.

LuckyJim

Jim, You're not being pretentious at all!  Love the analogy and appreciate the depth of thought  :light:which is something I haven't been able to achieve in my marriage on any level    I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that the only requirement in my marriage was that I was stupid.  Any form of joy, wisdom, intelligence or insight was forbidden UNLESS it was HIS ( and that's not saying much). I wasn't allowed to sing or dance or laugh without it offending my husband and he would give me evil degrading looks or ignore me entirely.  It didn't help that I had an NPD/BPD mother who constantly encouraged me to put HIM in the spotlight.  I slowly became so invisible that I had little to no purpose or function in my marriage, my company or life in general.  In 2010, I went to a therapist in a desperate state to essentially ask her if it was ' ok' for me to take away his debit cards and credit cards.  I had reached a point where I wasn't even confident in making any business or personal decisions about my life, finances or anything else.  I had studied landscape architecture and design at a university and started my own business in 98 but he quickly made it impossible for me to run the company or do my work and manipulated everything so that HE was the head honcho.  When we met with clients, he would aggressively attack me in front of them, oppose my designs and ideas and I finally threw in the towel because it was easier for me to back down then to fire him ( so I thought) since we needed money.  Also, my NPD mother told me to make him the president when I started the company because it would help him to feel more confident.  Oh gosh.  If it wasn't so utterly sad and disturbing to realize how my mother poisoned my life, it would be absurdly funny.  I write about this stuff and I realize the impact that just one toxic person can have on a person with an otherwise, logical and reasonable mind.  Scary!

BTW, was watching Huff Post Live this morning and there was a segment on there about an author who wrote the book, ' The Perception Myth' by Brad Wheelis.  I haven't read it yet but it sounds like a good self help book for people who are seeking to live a more authentic and fulfilled life. 

My skewed perception of myself caused all the problems in my life.  I know it's not entirely my fault and perhaps not my fault at all given that I never had a healthy ego or anyone to model healthy self esteem and self-care but the key to my success is going to be all about learning to believe that I am a capable, intelligent and authentic person who does have value  in life.

A couple of months ago my therapist asked me where I get my energy from.  She was referring to what drives me and inspires me and elevates me and I couldn't answer her question partly because what came to mind seemed so petty and ' woowoo'.  I pondered her question for several days and weeks and it became clear to me that  Joy, love, laughter and happy people with happy energy really make my day and I love inspiring others to find the same in life.  How does one put that on their resume unless they want to be a clown or in a circus?  Come to think of it, a therapist several years ago said that I should do stand up comedy ( I have a very warped sense of humor and made her laugh all the time)  but I really don't want to do that-  I have severe stage fright.   I love children and animals because of their energy and they are not pretentious.  Children and animals are real and I love their way of being transparent and authentic. I loved creating children's gardens at schools with the kids.  Well anyway, I want to find work in a ' happy' business.  Maybe being a clown is a possibility for me?  Gosh, never considered such a thing.

Sorry for rambling on this morning.  That Huff segment must have stimulated my thoughts about my new life and career :D

[Leaving]

Leaving,

You are so right.  It truly is a no win situation.  When I would tell her what she wanted to hear she would say I was only telling her that to shut her up.  I wanted to be like DUH of course that's what I'm doing, because if I tell you the truth or how I am really feeling then this would go on even longer.  They never care about our needs or about how we are feeling inside.  Only about what we can do for them.  They are so emotionally shallow and it is so draining to say the least.

I am newly out of this relationship and  trying the no contact thing.  I was doing really good until she started blowing up my work phone earlier.  I finally had to answer because she just would not stop.  They force us to be mean to them.  They force us to answer questions that we don't want to answer.  And if we answer them truthfully then we are so mean to them.  I tried to not answer and to keep my cool but she would not stop.  It makes something inside me snap and I am so sick of her tears and crying and being so pitiful.  And I tired of everything being blamed on me and that I am her sole reason for living.  Like she can not possibly have a life without me.

I think after this last conversation I am over the point of worrying about herl.  I am going to start worrying about me and fixing the damage she has done to me.  I can not take this turmoil any longer.  Sorry for the rant, !  

Glacier, spot on about how they don't care about our needs.  I knew this but reading your words really struck me because it always sounds so harsh! I don't think it's ever going to be easy for us to fully accept the notion that a person could be driven to be so selfish and uncaring but it's absolutely necessary that we remind ourselves that they really don't care about us or our needs or whether we are secure, loved, well-fed or even healthy because we can't afford to invest anything in them or any other emotional vampire anymore!  There have been times when I was in critical need of a husband who cared about me like when I had ovarian cancer in 05 but he was not there for me at all and a friend from another country had to come here to help me for three months!  My husband's lack of concern or caring was so unbelievably cruel and his enabling family made excuses for his neglect.  He stole my medicine for himself and he turned my suffering into his own by crying to others, getting drunk, avoiding me, responsibilities and more.  Anyone with a grain of sense would have dumped him like a hot potato but I didn't    I'm tellin ya, NEVER AGAIN will I tolerate anyone like my husband ever again! 

[glaciercats]

Glacier, spot on about how they don't care about our needs.  I knew this but reading your words really struck me because it always sounds so harsh! I don't think it's ever going to be easy for us to fully accept the notion that a person could be driven to be so selfish and uncaring but it's absolutely necessary that we remind ourselves that they really don't care about us or our needs or whether we are secure, loved, well-fed or even healthy because we can't afford to invest anything in them or any other emotional vampire anymore!  There have been times when I was in critical need of a husband who cared about me like when I had ovarian cancer in 05 but he was not there for me at all and a friend from another country had to come here to help me for three months!  My husband's lack of concern or caring was so unbelievably cruel and his enabling family made excuses for his neglect.  He stole my medicine for himself and he turned my suffering into his own by crying to others, getting drunk, avoiding me, responsibilities and more.  Anyone with a grain of sense would have dumped him like a hot potato but I didn't    I'm tellin ya, NEVER AGAIN will I tolerate anyone like my husband ever again! 

Leaving,

I'm sure it's a horrible feeling to have to go through something like cancer without the support of your spouse.  And stealing your medicine, that is so low.  I am sorry you had to deal with that while going through such a hard time.

I can tell you are a good kind hearted person and I think they prey on people like us.  We are the type of people that put others needs above our own.  I have read that good caring people are some of the most depressed people.  And I am starting to agree with that.  Could you imagine if a someone with BPD got with someone that had BPD as well?  Oh my gosh.

In the end it will make us stronger people.  And NEVER again will we get involved with someone else like this.  We will see the red flags from a mile away. Hang in there!

[Leaving]

Glacier, spot on about how they don't care about our needs.  I knew this but reading your words really struck me because it always sounds so harsh! I don't think it's ever going to be easy for us to fully accept the notion that a person could be driven to be so selfish and uncaring but it's absolutely necessary that we remind ourselves that they really don't care about us or our needs or whether we are secure, loved, well-fed or even healthy because we can't afford to invest anything in them or any other emotional vampire anymore!  There have been times when I was in critical need of a husband who cared about me like when I had ovarian cancer in 05 but he was not there for me at all and a friend from another country had to come here to help me for three months!  My husband's lack of concern or caring was so unbelievably cruel and his enabling family made excuses for his neglect.  He stole my medicine for himself and he turned my suffering into his own by crying to others, getting drunk, avoiding me, responsibilities and more.  Anyone with a grain of sense would have dumped him like a hot potato but I didn't    I'm tellin ya, NEVER AGAIN will I tolerate anyone like my husband ever again! 

Leaving,

I'm sure it's a horrible feeling to have to go through something like cancer without the support of your spouse.  And stealing your medicine, that is so low.  I am sorry you had to deal with that while going through such a hard time.

I can tell you are a good kind hearted person and I think they prey on people like us.  We are the type of people that put others needs above our own.  I have read that good caring people are some of the most depressed people.  And I am starting to agree with that.  Could you imagine if a someone with BPD got with someone that had BPD as well?  Oh my gosh.

In the end it will make us stronger people.  And NEVER again will we get involved with someone else like this.  We will see the red flags from a mile away. Hang in there!

Glacier,

BPD + BPD?  OH MY GOSH, I laughed so hard!  Thank you!  I've actually wondered what would happen if my husband met another BPD person and honestly, I don't think it would affect either of them the way it affects us.  I think that both parties would just rarely speak, go into denial and become apathetic.  Maybe not? 

I hear stories about couples that have done heinous things like neglecting children, putting their kids in closets, succumbing to financial ruin for no good reason, hoarding, living in squalor and other almost unbelievable things where I ask, ' Didn't someone notice that something was rotten in Denmark?" and I wonder if both the adults were BPD and cognitively impaired.

Creative people tend to be more neurotic than other types of personalities because they are sensitive and intuitive and there's nothing wrong with that except that they need a partner who they can connect with in the same way on the same emotional and spiritual level.  I'm very creative as well as analytical and I must balance my lifestyle with elements of both otherwise I get very bored.

yes, there is nothing more lonely than being sick around someone with BPD.  I didn't have time to deal with my husband though. I was terrified and trying to get my bits in order for the worst, trying to find homes for my dogs, etc...    My greatest fear was dying in this relationship and knowing that I never got the chance to be truly happy.  When my friend was here, it was the first time in years that I could relax and feel safe and not have to worry and I spent a month doing what I always wanted to do.   Just having someone to depend on and trust was worth more than I ever imagined.  That Thanksgiving, my husband decided that he would go to Colorado since my friend was here.  At first I didn't mind and thought nothing of it since I really just wanted peace of mind and to spend my ' last' days/weeks or whatever with my dogs in joy. A few weeks before T'giving, I went on a retreat by myself for a week and I remember crying and wishing that my husband were with me.  I wrote him a beautiful letter telling him how much I loved him and wanted him home with me for the holiday.  I sent him the letter, didn't hear a word from him and he never once acknowledged it.  When T'giving was a week away, after I had returned home,  I asked if he was staying and he got angry and defensive.  I told him not to worry and to keep his plans but he, out of deranged guilt, stayed and always blamed me after that for interfering with his vacation. Stupid selfish me. What in the hell was I thinking by staying with a man like him?  My friend wanted to take me out of here and back to Wales but I refused to leave my dogs.  Both my doctor and friend kept telling me that the stress was going to kill me before the cancer but I just wasn't convinced yet that there was no hope for us.  Oh well. Live and learn.  The cancer hasn't killed me yet and I'm determined more than ever to be happy once again.  Cheers to us and cheers to our good health! 

[Leaving]

I always felt shame in becoming someone that I was not.  I am not an angry person, I am not an inconsiderate person, I am not a selfish person.  I don't keep score and retaliate and I never did seek revenge. Revenge is never satisfying and I knew in my heart that it would not solve anything and make me feel better.   As the years passed, I became disgusted with myself for tolerating abuse for so long.  I'm not referring to physical abuse but passive aggressive abuse.  Yes, I would get angry in the moment because I knew that was being done to me was being done with intention and purpose aimed to hurt me for some obscure reason that was never revealed to me.   My abusive dynamic was very challenging because to continually ' rise above' the abuse only led to more and more abuse and I always paid dearly no matter what. By staying and tolerating, I was teaching him that I would ' take it' and fix and repair all the damage he created for us.  It's not in my realm of thinking to even imagine wanting to harm someone.  It seems so unnatural to me and so, it took me a very long time to accept that as long as I stayed, I was always going to be his target. 

This sounds like me. Before crossing paths with the BPDx, i had always been a very calm, easygoing, outspoken, strong and thoughtful man. After less than a year with a BPDx (who used a child to trap me), i became human doormat with lots of anger inside because of the situation. Looking back on it, in a way, i somewhat welcomed the next BPD episode she would have as these were the only times i would tell her what i really thought about her. That being said, i would always revert back to my shell and let her get away with one crazy thing after another. Each incident worse than the last. She knew she had me and she even once said, "you should stop telling people about what goes on between us because you're just going to look stupid when they see we're still together".

I may not be as kind as you as words could not describe the joy i would get out of some sort of revenge. Be it getting custody of my daughter or anything else that would cause her extreme grief. Mental disorder or not, i have no sympathy for her.

Clyde, I understand your resentment very well but as far as revenge goes, it's truly pointless because the only person who really suffers is you.  I remember a long time ago being so angry at my husband because he broke my grandmother's porcelain that she made herself and left it on the floor for me to find one morning.  He never apologized, never acknowledged what he had done.  That porcelain meant the world to me but I could have forgiven him IF he had cleaned it up and come to me and sincerely apologized but he didn't and additionally, my dogs and I could have cut our feet had I not noticed it before stepping on the pile of chards.  When I confronted him about it, he blamed me saying that if I didn't have it out in the house, he would have never broken it.  I was so absolutely livid that I thought, ' hmmm  what can I destroy of his that means the world to him?" and I went down into the garage and was going to snap his fishing rods in half.  Just as I was about to do that, I realized that it was pointless because NOTHING means anything to him.  Truly.  Everything in his life is disposable, expendable and replaceable.  Had I resorted to breaking those rods, he may not have even noticed or cared and I would have lived with the shame of stooping to his spineless level in life which would have compounded the shame I was already feeling for marrying such a man.  So, don't become what you despise.  Punch a pillow or vent to a therapist instead. 

[Tibbles]

I look back at how I was and I don't feel very proud of myself either. The more I work on me the more I see and understand the things I did that contributed to the mess and while I don't feel good about it. Though in a funny way its good to take ownership of my issues and to work on them. I think living with a BPD can only bring out the worst in a person. To be under attack for so long with no way out makes us mentally unhealthy too, and mentally unhealthy people act in unhealthy ways. The difference with nons and BPD sufferers is that we can recognise our unhealthy behaviours and change and grow and become responsible for ourselves. They cannot.

As for rebuilding yourself at 53, I'm doing it at 50. It's bloody hard and some days are harder than others.   However you know what, I'm relishing my freedom and walking around feeling so good that I can do what I want when I want. I am participating in life again and am no longer a bystander. I have no idea how I will end up, especially in old age but I know this life is far better than the one I left, no matter what it brings. Lots of hugs to you

[Lucky Jim]

Tibbles, Agree and like what you are saying.  Yes, the stress of living with a pwBPD can definitely bring out some bad behavior, which the pwBPD actually craves, I think, in a weird way.   I'm 50-something, too.  I have my life back, for which I'm grateful, even though my path has at times been challenging (and still is).  Yet it's my path, which is the most important thing.  And the bad behavior is in the rear view mirror!  LuckyJim

[Trog]

Just like to say that this thread really slapped me awake.

In my relationship I had developed many terrible crutches in order just to cope. These were very destructive and would cause me health problems down the road. I also didnt look after myself at all, had no respect for my mind or body when I was with my ex. Everything was about her and there was no room to even take care of my own basic needs and soul.

So, I've stopped many of those destructive behaviours that were a daily routine for me. Taking care of me.

[Leaving]

I look back at how I was and I don't feel very proud of myself either. The more I work on me the more I see and understand the things I did that contributed to the mess and while I don't feel good about it. Though in a funny way its good to take ownership of my issues and to work on them. I think living with a BPD can only bring out the worst in a person. To be under attack for so long with no way out makes us mentally unhealthy too, and mentally unhealthy people act in unhealthy ways. The difference with nons and BPD sufferers is that we can recognise our unhealthy behaviours and change and grow and become responsible for ourselves. They cannot.

As for rebuilding yourself at 53, I'm doing it at 50. It's bloody hard and some days are harder than others.   However you know what, I'm relishing my freedom and walking around feeling so good that I can do what I want when I want. I am participating in life again and am no longer a bystander. I have no idea how I will end up, especially in old age but I know this life is far better than the one I left, no matter what it brings. Lots of hugs to you

Thanks Tibbles 

I feel so encouraged when I read about how you and the others have found peace of mind.  It's truly a miracle that we have endured what we have and remained sane.  We are some mighty strong folks.  My health has suffered tremendously but I'm just now getting to a point where I'm willing to take better care of myself. 

I'm very proud of you and the others and I hope each of you are just as proud of yourself.