Confused and Hurt ( Long, sorry )

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi everyone,

It has been about three years since I have been here last. The last time was after a crushing and instant break up by my ex ( Woman - BPD ).

We reconciled a couple of months later, after I wrote her a letter expressing my desire to try our relationship again. We did for three years. The reason I didn't turn back to this site, despite many issues was that I had learned so much during the first break up that even though the knowledge was often difficult to put into action, I knew what I was dealing with and, despite many failures, what I needed to change about me to adapt.

In those three years, we loved deeply and we fought like cats and dogs. Most often those fights, initiated by her, were blatant intolerance for what seemed like catastrophic faux pas. Sometimes the even larger and violent attacks against me were a result of her getting very boozed and overacting to some minor question or comment.

A recent example: Her work requires that, from time to time, she and her team entertain prospective clients in a retail setting that would involve wine etc. She doesn't have a car, so part of my role was as chauffeur (2 years of it, every day back and forth twice)

On one of the nights of an event ( several months ago) , I arrive on location at 12am, knowing that it could be a few before she gets out. She finally comes out but it’s with a glass of wine and one of her female co-workers. She sees my car and shouts my “pet name” several times asking me to come over. I do, knowing that she is boozed. I give her a kiss, say hi to her friend and we all chat for a while.

Her colleague explains that she is going to go inside and my partner says she is joining her. Before she moves back in I ask, very nicely, if she might not make me wait too long while also hinting at her that it might be best for her to get some rest because she was opening in the morning.

I go back to my car and 1 ½ hrs later ( still waiting, not wanting her to have to cab it home that late ), I finally give up and leave, sending her a nice text saying “ I hope you understand, but I had to leave, please take a cab, see you at home”.  I get home and settle in, about 20 min later I get a text saying, "of course I understand, on my way home." She gets home and apologizes profusely for making me wait. I respond with “no problem, no big deal” and then kind of clam up because I am still a little angry but also know that in her state anything could set her off. Well even silence didn’t work. She rushes me, starts pointing fingers, pushing etc. It escalates because at this point I can’t stop it. She finally gets so in my face and her hands are starting to raise to hit which is when I grab her hands only to ensure that she isn’t able to hit. So as not to hurt her, I let go and run out the door of the apartment onto the street. She is now chasing me with a bottle, I push her to the ground (grass) and then call 911, because my son is in the house.

After a bit my 13 year old boy is escorted by her out of the house and he is crying. Cops come, clearly see that she is highly aggressive and say that one of the adults has to leave the premises because emotions are too high. As a gentlemen, I say she can stay and my son and I will go.

So that everyone understands why I am here and why I love her, while handling it all wrong, her reasoning for pulling my son out of bed was because she didn’t want him to see all of this fighting and wanted him home with his mom. Irrational yes but can you see why I might see past the disorder and into her heart? Needless to say, my ex wife said that my son could no longer sleep at our place.

The next few days. She is devastated and very depressed about what she did and caused. Lots of hugs and apologies and I talk her down from feeling bad about it because I have a very clear understanding of what was at the root of it. I didn’t completely let her off the hook but I didn’t want her to torture herself. I loved and still love her.

One example of a number through the course of the relationship.

It is important to note that when we me she was had a serious coke problem and while it tapered it went well into well into our first 6 months (she admitted that she was self medicating). I couldn't stop her, she had to. After finally stopping, she expressed how deeply grateful that I had provided a loving and safe environment for her to finally move away from her past life and that even the word coke made her sick. Another reason to love and respect her.

After our reconciliation, she got kicked out of her apartment and ended up moving into my one bedroom with her dog (dogs weren't allowed, so I pleaded with the landlord). 3 months later she adopted another during a drunken web session. So very shortly, I was going to have two dogs in an apartment where none were allowed. A couple of months later we moved to a bigger place, where she is now. She wasn't working, had an ebay business that wasn't moving so I paid for everything. Sound familiar?

While it was never discussed, despite my gently trying to open the door to that conversation, she did lay down more than enough hints over the course of the relationship. Example, when my son was living part time with us, she sat me down one night and said ‘ I want to let you know that right now my brain isn’t working right and I have a dislike for your son that I can’t control and that is irrational. I don’t want my brain to do things like this but I can't help it” My heart ached for her that her mind could do such things and that she was aware of it?

How can I not love a woman who suffers through these thoughts but more importantly is clearly trying to deal with them? I wasn’t trying to save her or change her, because I knew that I couldn't, I just wanted to try to be there when she needed me to be.

There were countless break up’s. So I lived in this “ are we on or are we off?” existence in perpetuity.

In those years, I too had a couple of career set backs (two tech start ups going bankrupt two months in, leaving me shocked), so stability on that front was chaotic but I always managed to cover the bills.

Ok, so, there was only one thing that I could not deal with... .infidelity.

Another issue I had to contend with was her having these flights of fancy where she wanted to move somewhere else. Very difficult to deal with when you have a child nearby but fear losing the person you love.

Her last was a small city in the south. Her itch needed to be scratched and she needed to satisfy her curiosity, so she booked a trip. I was in the depth of trying to recover from one of the tech start up busts and simply couldn't afford to join her. In the run up to the trip, she was showing me houses that we could move into and how affordable it was, that there were jobs up there etc. I agreed that I would move and so on.

So she goes on her trip. We are in regular contact, there are I love you’s, I miss you’s, even more than usual and to the last day. She is back at her hotel every night and either texting or calling. I was happy for her and happy that she was loving the experience.

She gets back and reports that, while beautiful, the city was a little off the beaten path, had some very sketchy areas, very close to good areas, that the economic situation was rough. In short, as hoped the illusion faded.

However, she did mention that, while in a bookstore, she had bumped into a man and that they decided to have lunch together. No big deal. She brushed it off as nothing and that I was being paranoid. She was still completely loving and focused on me.

Throughout the course of the relationship, she had promised me up and down, right to the left, that she was a straight shooter and would tell me if she was pursuing someone else. I counted on the fact that if she was going to move on that she would tell me so. I was wrong. Things heated up with this man who lived a thousand miles away and still lived with his ex wife and children.

I was sitting in the bedroom, one day, when I overhead her making hotel reservations in a high end hotel. I asked her who it was for and she told me that one of her other friends was coming to town, someone who could not possibly afford that hotel. I knew it smelt wrong but I decided to trust her.

So the dates come for her “friend to visit” She goes and hangs out for the day but is back early. Same thing the next day but she is back in the afternoon. Boozed but ok. She even lied to the point of saying that she " would say hi to her girlfriend for me" and went even further saying how frustrated she was with her friend because she was so annoying sometimes. I mean why go to those lengths?

I was like ok, she clearly didn’t have a “hook up”, let it go. Then I catch her, again on the phone, saying in a flirty voice ( boozed again) “ I hope that I was a good tour guide, what are doing for new year's? I would love to” I mean all of this is on the phone while I am in the apartment.

Now she lies that she is going to spend New Year with friends out of town. I knew and confronted her and finally she let it go “ we have been over for a year (same women who while on her trip a month and a half ago was telling me how much she loved and missed me), yes I am going on a date with my new friend, if it helps, I have my own room”. What?

That was the last straw, I wasn't going to sit through it. I found a roomate opportunity and was out of the apartment by the 30th with all of my belongings, leaving her to deal with her two dogs and how they would be cared for while she went off on her romantic date.

It killed me to leave and I suffered dramatically for several weeks.

We have communicated a couple of times, for practical reasons and where she expressed anger over my move, not giving her any warning etc. I explained that I had always trusted her. That she lied to me. That she promised that she would tell me if she was pursuing another relationship.

The last night was brutal and it broke out into a fight with me calling her all kinds of names. Keeping in mind that in the last months, I had dealt with her becoming overweight ( still beautiful and I always said I don’t care ), a couple of family tragedies ( first her Mother’s passing and then a real drama of her sister developing an inappropriate relationship with the step Father, the husband of the recently lost Mother, both of which sent her into depression and both events had me providing extra listening and emotional support).

So, despite everything I still love her.

I have a new job, and I am moving into a really nice (shared) apartment with amenities. After everything calmed, I wrote her a letter admitting to my own short comings, which included financial stresses that didn’t allow me to take her on date nights and little adventures that are needed in a healthy relationship etc. That I was now about to move into a nice place that would allow me to spoil her a bit and that if she was interested, maybe we could try again because we were no longer living together. That we were forced into cohabitation and so many things went wrong. That I needed the next few weeks to sort my self out with work etc. I asked her to please think about a last chance but that if she chose no, that I would understand and respect her decision. I included pictures of the new place and the amenities saying that I wanted to share them with her, that I missed her and the dogs.

That day, after dropping off the letter, I get a screaming text about my snooping around her apartment, that it was inappropriate and that I should only show up when it is planned. I responded saying that I wasn't snooping around, that I dropped the letter off in the mail box and left. 30 minutes went by (I suspect she was reading the letter) and I get an “ok”.

The last revelation that I will offer is highly personal. Very early in our relationship, she was lying in her bed very sad and she told me that she had just found out that she had an STD. It was a huge blow to me but I regained my composure and told her that I still loved and wanted her and that I wasn't going anywhere. I am not sure how much more one has to do to express their love.

As mentioned, I do want this one last chance to try, under different circumstances, where we both have our own pied a terre to escape back to, where the risk is not so great, where again, I could offer some small respite. Her job has her on her (damaged) feet for hours. She now has to take the bus or cab it to and from work. She has to care of her dogs by herself etc. I don't like the fact that she has to do all of that. This man, if they are still an item lives somewhere else. 

I don’t love this woman because I cling to only the good times. I love her because I love her. I love her because despite everything, I watched her fight against her disorder daily, keeping in mind that like so many she fought anxiety, depression, BPD and Bi-Polar. It wasn't just one disorder. Her Father was murdered when she was 19, she was supposed to visit him when it happened. Her Mother was very hard on her. I mean it’s the stereotypical life that kicks the brain into chaos. I repeatedly told her how much I respected how valiant and courageous she is for fighting back, every day. I would watch her hands constantly move around and she constantly asked me to re-read emails she had sent out because she feared that she had said something silly. I love her because she was my partner, because I miss her laugh and her intellect. I miss the kindness, her deep love of animals. In other words, I am not in love with the fantasy.

As mentioned, she could be so caring, loving and gentle. We had so much in common. We fought... it was hard not to react to her insults and her behavior, but I was just at the cusp of totally dealing with it all. Not reacting, which led to apologies etc.  I was right there at the point where I could deal with everything, EXCEPT, infidelity.

I still want her as my partner. Am I crazy?

To close, I have learned enough to know that I cannot point to the disorder for everything. She is a smart, educated woman so I know that some of the issues, from my end, contributed to the situation. What confuses me is that I dealt with a mountain in comparison and stood by her.

I apologize, again, for the length. I needed to get this out, in a community that I am familiar with and that can appreciate the “ additional “ considerations that do not exist in typical relationships.

Thank you for listening. I am deeply grateful to anyone that took the time and takes the time to respond.

[LimboFL]

Hi everyone,

It has been about three years since I have been here last. The last time was after a crushing and instant break up by my ex ( Woman - BPD ).

We reconciled a couple of months later, after I wrote her a letter expressing my desire to try our relationship again. We did for three years. The reason I didn't turn back to this site, despite many issues was that I had learned so much during the first break up that even though the knowledge was often difficult to put into action, I knew what I was dealing with and, despite many failures, what I needed to change about me to adapt.

In those three years, we loved deeply and we fought like cats and dogs. Most often those fights, initiated by her, were blatant intolerance for what seemed like catastrophic faux pas. Sometimes the even larger and violent attacks against me were a result of her getting very boozed and overacting to some minor question or comment.

A recent example: Her work requires that, from time to time, she and her team entertain prospective clients in a retail setting that would involve wine etc. She doesn't have a car, so part of my role was as chauffeur (2 years of it, every day back and forth twice)

On one of the nights of an event ( several months ago) , I arrive on location at 12am, knowing that it could be a few before she gets out. She finally comes out but it’s with a glass of wine and one of her female co-workers. She sees my car and shouts my “pet name” several times asking me to come over. I do, knowing that she is boozed. I give her a kiss, say hi to her friend and we all chat for a while.

Her colleague explains that she is going to go inside and my partner says she is joining her. Before she moves back in I ask, very nicely, if she might not make me wait too long while also hinting at her that it might be best for her to get some rest because she was opening in the morning.

I go back to my car and 1 ½ hrs later ( still waiting, not wanting her to have to cab it home that late ), I finally give up and leave, sending her a nice text saying “ I hope you understand, but I had to leave, please take a cab, see you at home”.  I get home and settle in, about 20 min later I get a text saying, "of course I understand, on my way home." She gets home and apologizes profusely for making me wait. I respond with “no problem, no big deal” and then kind of clam up because I am still a little angry but also know that in her state anything could set her off. Well even silence didn’t work. She rushes me, starts pointing fingers, pushing etc. It escalates because at this point I can’t stop it. She finally gets so in my face and her hands are starting to raise to hit which is when I grab her hands only to ensure that she isn’t able to hit. So as not to hurt her, I let go and run out the door of the apartment onto the street. She is now chasing me with a bottle, I push her to the ground (grass) and then call 911, because my son is in the house.

After a bit my 13 year old boy is escorted by her out of the house and he is crying. Cops come, clearly see that she is highly aggressive and say that one of the adults has to leave the premises because emotions are too high. As a gentlemen, I say she can stay and my son and I will go.

So that everyone understands why I am here and why I love her, while handling it all wrong, her reasoning for pulling my son out of bed was because she didn’t want him to see all of this fighting and wanted him home with his mom. Irrational yes but can you see why I might see past the disorder and into her heart? Needless to say, my ex wife said that my son could no longer sleep at our place.

The next few days. She is devastated and very depressed about what she did and caused. Lots of hugs and apologies and I talk her down from feeling bad about it because I have a very clear understanding of what was at the root of it. I didn’t completely let her off the hook but I didn’t want her to torture herself. I loved and still love her.

One example of a number through the course of the relationship.

It is important to note that when we me she was had a serious coke problem and while it tapered it went well into well into our first 6 months (she admitted that she was self medicating). I couldn't stop her, she had to. After finally stopping, she expressed how deeply grateful that I had provided a loving and safe environment for her to finally move away from her past life and that even the word coke made her sick. Another reason to love and respect her.

After our reconciliation, she got kicked out of her apartment and ended up moving into my one bedroom with her dog (dogs weren't allowed, so I pleaded with the landlord). 3 months later she adopted another during a drunken web session. So very shortly, I was going to have two dogs in an apartment where none were allowed. A couple of months later we moved to a bigger place, where she is now. She wasn't working, had an ebay business that wasn't moving so I paid for everything. Sound familiar?

While it was never discussed, despite my gently trying to open the door to that conversation, she did lay down more than enough hints over the course of the relationship. Example, when my son was living part time with us, she sat me down one night and said ‘ I want to let you know that right now my brain isn’t working right and I have a dislike for your son that I can’t control and that is irrational. I don’t want my brain to do things like this but I can't help it” My heart ached for her that her mind could do such things and that she was aware of it?

How can I not love a woman who suffers through these thoughts but more importantly is clearly trying to deal with them? I wasn’t trying to save her or change her, because I knew that I couldn't, I just wanted to try to be there when she needed me to be.

There were countless break up’s. So I lived in this “ are we on or are we off?” existence in perpetuity.

In those years, I too had a couple of career set backs (two tech start ups going bankrupt two months in, leaving me shocked), so stability on that front was chaotic but I always managed to cover the bills.

Ok, so, there was only one thing that I could not deal with... .infidelity.

Another issue I had to contend with was her having these flights of fancy where she wanted to move somewhere else. Very difficult to deal with when you have a child nearby but fear losing the person you love.

Her last was a small city in the south. Her itch needed to be scratched and she needed to satisfy her curiosity, so she booked a trip. I was in the depth of trying to recover from one of the tech start up busts and simply couldn't afford to join her. In the run up to the trip, she was showing me houses that we could move into and how affordable it was, that there were jobs up there etc. I agreed that I would move and so on.

So she goes on her trip. We are in regular contact, there are I love you’s, I miss you’s, even more than usual and to the last day. She is back at her hotel every night and either texting or calling. I was happy for her and happy that she was loving the experience.

She gets back and reports that, while beautiful, the city was a little off the beaten path, had some very sketchy areas, very close to good areas, that the economic situation was rough. In short, as hoped the illusion faded.

However, she did mention that, while in a bookstore, she had bumped into a man and that they decided to have lunch together. No big deal. She brushed it off as nothing and that I was being paranoid. She was still completely loving and focused on me.

Throughout the course of the relationship, she had promised me up and down, right to the left, that she was a straight shooter and would tell me if she was pursuing someone else. I counted on the fact that if she was going to move on that she would tell me so. I was wrong. Things heated up with this man who lived a thousand miles away and still lived with his ex wife and children.

I was sitting in the bedroom, one day, when I overhead her making hotel reservations in a high end hotel. I asked her who it was for and she told me that one of her other friends was coming to town, someone who could not possibly afford that hotel. I knew it smelt wrong but I decided to trust her.

So the dates come for her “friend to visit” She goes and hangs out for the day but is back early. Same thing the next day but she is back in the afternoon. Boozed but ok. She even lied to the point of saying that she " would say hi to her girlfriend for me" and went even further saying how frustrated she was with her friend because she was so annoying sometimes. I mean why go to those lengths?

I was like ok, she clearly didn’t have a “hook up”, let it go. Then I catch her, again on the phone, saying in a flirty voice ( boozed again) “ I hope that I was a good tour guide, what are doing for new year's? I would love to” I mean all of this is on the phone while I am in the apartment.

Now she lies that she is going to spend New Year with friends out of town. I knew and confronted her and finally she let it go “ we have been over for a year (same women who while on her trip a month and a half ago was telling me how much she loved and missed me), yes I am going on a date with my new friend, if it helps, I have my own room”. What?

That was the last straw, I wasn't going to sit through it. I found a roomate opportunity and was out of the apartment by the 30th with all of my belongings, leaving her to deal with her two dogs and how they would be cared for while she went off on her romantic date.

It killed me to leave and I suffered dramatically for several weeks.

We have communicated a couple of times, for practical reasons and where she expressed anger over my move, not giving her any warning etc. I explained that I had always trusted her. That she lied to me. That she promised that she would tell me if she was pursuing another relationship.

The last night was brutal and it broke out into a fight with me calling her all kinds of names. Keeping in mind that in the last months, I had dealt with her becoming overweight ( still beautiful and I always said I don’t care ), a couple of family tragedies ( first her Mother’s passing and then a real drama of her sister developing an inappropriate relationship with the step Father, the husband of the recently lost Mother, both of which sent her into depression and both events had me providing extra listening and emotional support).

So, despite everything I still love her.

I have a new job, and I am moving into a really nice (shared) apartment with amenities. After everything calmed, I wrote her a letter admitting to my own short comings, which included financial stresses that didn’t allow me to take her on date nights and little adventures that are needed in a healthy relationship etc. That I was now about to move into a nice place that would allow me to spoil her a bit and that if she was interested, maybe we could try again because we were no longer living together. That we were forced into cohabitation and so many things went wrong. That I needed the next few weeks to sort my self out with work etc. I asked her to please think about a last chance but that if she chose no, that I would understand and respect her decision. I included pictures of the new place and the amenities saying that I wanted to share them with her, that I missed her and the dogs.

That day, after dropping off the letter, I get a screaming text about my snooping around her apartment, that it was inappropriate and that I should only show up when it is planned. I responded saying that I wasn't snooping around, that I dropped the letter off in the mail box and left. 30 minutes went by (I suspect she was reading the letter) and I get an “ok”.

The last revelation that I will offer is highly personal. Very early in our relationship, she was lying in her bed very sad and she told me that she had just found out that she had an STD. It was a huge blow to me but I regained my composure and told her that I still loved and wanted her and that I wasn't going anywhere. I am not sure how much more one has to do to express their love.

As mentioned, I do want this one last chance to try, under different circumstances, where we both have our own pied a terre to escape back to, where the risk is not so great, where again, I could offer some small respite. Her job has her on her (damaged) feet for hours. She now has to take the bus or cab it to and from work. She has to care of her dogs by herself etc. I don't like the fact that she has to do all of that. This man, if they are still an item lives somewhere else. 

I don’t love this woman because I cling to only the good times. I love her because I love her. I love her because despite everything, I watched her fight against her disorder daily, keeping in mind that like so many she fought anxiety, depression, BPD and Bi-Polar. It wasn't just one disorder. Her Father was murdered when she was 19, she was supposed to visit him when it happened. Her Mother was very hard on her. I mean it’s the stereotypical life that kicks the brain into chaos. I repeatedly told her how much I respected how valiant and courageous she is for fighting back, every day. I would watch her hands constantly move around and she constantly asked me to re-read emails she had sent out because she feared that she had said something silly. I love her because she was my partner, because I miss her laugh and her intellect. I miss the kindness, her deep love of animals. In other words, I am not in love with the fantasy.

As mentioned, she could be so caring, loving and gentle. We had so much in common. We fought... it was hard not to react to her insults and her behavior, but I was just at the cusp of totally dealing with it all. Not reacting, which led to apologies etc.  I was right there at the point where I could deal with everything, EXCEPT, infidelity.

I still want her as my partner. Am I crazy?

To close, I have learned enough to know that I cannot point to the disorder for everything. She is a smart, educated woman so I know that some of the issues, from my end, contributed to the situation. What confuses me is that I dealt with a mountain in comparison and stood by her.

I apologize, again, for the length. I needed to get this out, in a community that I am familiar with and that can appreciate the “ additional “ considerations that do not exist in typical relationships.

Thank you for listening. I am deeply grateful to anyone that took the time and takes the time to respond.

[LimboFL]

I wish there was a way for me to delete the last post. I have done a lot of reading ( which I should have done first ) in other pages and got a lot of answers that I needed. I still don't know where I stand or what I want. There are no concrete answers because whether non or BPD, we are all people. Nothing is cookie cutter. Anyway, sorry to anyone who reads the previous post and all of my nonsense, but thank you for taking the time.

[mrwigand]

Hey, I hope you're not embarrassed or self conscious about your post. You certainly have no reason to be. So much of what I read I felt for and related to very deeply. I broke things off with my exBPDgf, but I still think about reconnecting with her and trying to make it work... .Despite the behavior that so hurtful and healthy, I think about it a lot. So I don't think you're crazy when you say how you want to get back with your ex.

And I understand your need to examine your own actions closely to see if you could have behaved better, but I will say this... .None of your actions warranted infidelity. If she doesn't acknowledge the violation that occurred there, then that does indicate - at least to me - that the relationship won't work.

[LimboFL]

Thank you Mr. Wigand, so much for your response. To be honest, it had me in tears.

I am a strong man (with an oversized heart) but one minute I reason to myself that, regardless of what happens, I need to heal and take care of myself, whether it be in a position of mental strength to try again (if the opportunity presents itself) and the other minute I am breaking down.

Like so many have expressed, all friends and family say is, move on, let go, she only made you unhappy. They don't know what we do and I will not accept that it was all a con. I have strong trust issues so am always on guard. Yes, I know that there were moments where I was conned but nothing so dramatic as to change my overall view on things, except for the last event.

Yes, I was embarrassed because after reading so many other recounts on this board, very little of what I wrote was any different than what so many others have gone through. I felt it was inappropriate to share some of the personal details, but I needed to spill it all out in detail to feel like I wasn't wrong for feeling betrayed, confused and hurt. I didn't do all of those things for her out of some sense of obligation, nor was it empathy for a soul that battles more than I could imagine. Yes, I cared deeply but I was just being a good partner and man. It's who I am, but I don't allow anyone to take me for granted for too long. I sense it and recoil.

I know that my exBPD was fighting to keep control, every day, but just snapped because she couldn't hold it any longer. She apologized often, especially when her insults came out of nowhere or she went crazy. Her reaction to the result of our fight, where my son was involved, was a perfect example. It was genuine. These weren't " pleadings for forgiveness for fear of losing me but rather genuinely hurt for the hurt she caused me and my son. She was in genuine pain and said many times, I don't know why you stay. In other words, she was aware and trying. I understood the self doubt and insecurity and, because I love her, always wanted to make her feel beautiful. It didn't cost me a thing.

One difference between mine and so many others on this board was that initially, my ex was really not my type, I wasn't deeply attracted to her but there is, genuinely, so much in common between us, things that went so far past the honeymoon mirroring phase, things that lasted til the end that I just fell in love with her. She was a stunning women, in her youth, but... .I won't go any further. Suffice to say, It was these things and her heart that I fell for and miss.

I knew that leaving her so abruptly was going to do serious damage but I couldn't deal with it and felt she needed to know what it was like to have all of the things I did, the love and kindness taken away. I also said some horrible things to her, because I relied so heavily on her promise of honesty. She was brutally honest so many other times... .I apologized deeply after the fact but... .

Anyway, there are no answers, I know. I don't know where I sit or what I want. I need to push forward and feel those spurts slowly coming, even though I remain in what I believe is called the FOG (maybe incorrect). I just needed to get my story out, because no one in the outside world understands how someone can love another despite all of the difficulties and hardships. They only hear from us after a difficult event and not during those times where there is peace, love and caring. I recoil when I read so many speak like our partners are evil and nothing but pure selfishness because, while I saw it, there were plenty of moments of kindness and selflessness.

I don't know if a reconciliation is the right thing, or if the opportunity will ever present itself. My letter explained how I feel and what I want. But I do know that we non's are not guilt free. We bring our own baggage into relationships that can exacerbate things. BPD relationship or not, relationships are an education and require growth, that can sometimes only come after relationship combustion. Sometimes that explosion makes the pieces to small to glue back together and sometimes not. I want one more chance, after which if it doesn't work then it can't work.

As mentioned, regardless, I know that I HAVE to heal and I hope that you are healing too. I would welcome the opportunity to hear your situation as well, should you wish to share it. It sounds like we are going through similar emotions and are clearly both not young teenagers who are experiencing our first loves.

I am very grateful to this site, as it has given me a great deal of solace and insight. One thinks that after a very lengthy study of what we are dealing with, further support will not help, but it does. 

Thank you, again, very much for reading my post and responding.

[LimboFL]

Mr. Wigand,

I forgot to address the "she should acknowledge the infidelity"... .I know how her mind works, in her mind our relationship was done, even though she would hug and kiss me etc. This is, in my view, a part of the disorder. There was defined "it's over now" and the entire relationship was mired in both sides calling it off and then falling back into each other. It was, as mentioned, simply impossible to tell where things were.

One of her complaints was that I never shared my finances with her so that she could do a budget, nor did I ever ask for her hand. I said that I would have done both a long time ago, if she didn't seem to always have one foot out the door.

So, no, I don't expect her to feel that she really did anything wrong. Where I did manage to throw it back at her was the fact that she promised that she would be forthcoming about it. While I was devastated by the emotional betrayal ( again while it is possible that something physical has already happened, given he lives 1000 miles away and still with his ex wife (which sounds fishy to me anyway), I made it all about the fact that she lied and didn't inform me. Her ex husband up and left her, while she was away, without any notice and for another woman (Clearly he had had enough). He took everything in the apt leaving her in really bad shape. She promised that she would never lie to me and put me through it. I also had to deal with my ex wife ( 20 years together ) sneak around for 6 months before divorcing me and she said she would never do that to me either.

In my view, while I understand the need, everything I have read says that trying to have an open discussion about past misdeeds won't work. While much of the time I was dealing with an adult, there is no question that there was plenty of the three year old.

She believes we were done at that point, in her mind, so I won't expect her to feel any guilt about the infidelity, which at that point I know was only becoming an emotional affair. The lying part is something that I will bring up, when the time is right and should the opportunity for such a discussion ever present itself.

Just wanted to address that. I agree, in a normal relationship this would be mandatory but in one where there is a BPD and you know how they think (on certain matters). She told me "we have been over for a year now" it was a familiar refrain whenever she moved into the black phase. Again, it isn't unique to BPD's, women switch off all of the time, even when they are still with their partners. But, if we are not so blinded by ignorance, we notice it. They don't want to really be near us and there is no affection but with my ex, two days before her saying this, we were cuddling in bed talking about moving to such and such, a month before it was "I miss you's and I love you". Not the same.

We shall see what happens. I NEED to get a handle on this and repair myself.

Stay strong and again thank you.