A View From The Inside

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

In October of 2014 I initiated a divorce from my dBPD wife (stbxw).  After efforts to get her into couple's therapy with me (a circus), substantial time with my own CBT, and 20 years of relationship that alternated between drama and nothingness, I threw in the towel.  I only hope that when our kids are adults, they don't feel like we let them down too badly.

I admit that I accommodated really bad behavior for a really long time.  I have some thoughts on why I did this.  The foundational event of the relationship was a rape that resulted in a criminal conviction, and soon after I learned of earlier traumatic events.  I was foolish to stay when most people would've have said "You're nice, but I didn't sign on for this." I thought I was different and special, and suited to help and protect her, because, after all, that's what love is, right?

I am able to view my own behavior and hers in a far more objective way than I could before.  One of the things that has been bewildering for me is her insistence that I do some particular thing (be it mow the lawn, clean the dishes, or respond to her problems in a prescribed way) and then, when I am doing the particular thing she has asked me to do, come to me and tell me that my doing that thing now constitutes a problem. 

There are so many examples.  A few that stand out for their egregiousness are (1) "Get me flowers for my birthday and Valentine's Day" -- something that I did without fail anyhow -- and the problem arose from that was "If you don't get me flowers from a particular florist, do not get me flowers at all." (2) "Get me a nice card for my birthday, Valentine's Day, and Mothers Day" -- again, something that was done without fail -- and the problem that arose from it was "Unless you get me a nice card from Hallmark or American Greetings, do not get me a card.  I was also admonished to shop for her greeting cards very early, so that I had a wide selection. (3) Wash the dishes.  I often did this anyhow, but after she told me that I must wash the dishes, she would jump in front of me and grab them and act upset because she thought I was making some kind of negative statement about her housekeeping skills. (4) The lawn should be picture perfect at all times.  I would work on the lawn until it was picture perfect. Then I would be criticized for being obsessive about the way I was working on the lawn.  I'd cut back on my lawn care activities, and the criticism would be "You're giving up on the lawn. Don't you have any pride?" (5) "My grandfather never gave my grandmother gifts. If you do that (fail to give me gifts), I will divorce you." Then the gifts I would give her would be critiqued and labeled inadequate, and I would be call thoughtless. It got to the point where I said "I am just going to give you an American Express gift card from now on." (6) Within the couple's therapy context, "I want him (me) to only empathize with me when I tell him about a problem I am having; I do not want him to help with a solution." I would then merely empathize with her when she presented me with a problem. Inevitably, and quickly, this was a basis for criticism. "I told (him) that someone had stolen the checks out of her car, and all he said was 'That's too bad' instead of offering a solution."

Really, there is so much more I could add to this list.  But today I asked my T why it is that someone with her "makeup and tendencies" as he likes to put it (NPD, BPD traits) does not have some kind of governor or moral center that halts these things, some voice that says "Wait.  It's wrong to treat another human being like this."

What he said startled me.  He said that there is no constant moral center as I conceive of it.  He said that if there is a governor inside her, it sees no conflict between telling someone that he must wash the dishes to make her happy, and then jumping in front of him to prevent him from washing the dishes and criticizing him for it. 

It's still very hard for me to accept this.  It makes me think that people with BPD are not moral actors in the conventional sense.  It also makes me think that it never was possible to have any kind of relationship with her. 

But if there is a view from the inside, what was said to me by my T today seems to have come close to giving it, to describing the fundamental problem with pwBPD (at least in terms of their behavior).       

[goateeki]

In October of 2014 I initiated a divorce from my dBPD wife (stbxw).  After efforts to get her into couple's therapy with me (a circus), substantial time with my own CBT, and 20 years of relationship that alternated between drama and nothingness, I threw in the towel.  I only hope that when our kids are adults, they don't feel like we let them down too badly.

I admit that I accommodated really bad behavior for a really long time.  I have some thoughts on why I did this.  The foundational event of the relationship was a rape that resulted in a criminal conviction, and soon after I learned of earlier traumatic events.  I was foolish to stay when most people would've have said "You're nice, but I didn't sign on for this." I thought I was different and special, and suited to help and protect her, because, after all, that's what love is, right?

I am able to view my own behavior and hers in a far more objective way than I could before.  One of the things that has been bewildering for me is her insistence that I do some particular thing (be it mow the lawn, clean the dishes, or respond to her problems in a prescribed way) and then, when I am doing the particular thing she has asked me to do, come to me and tell me that my doing that thing now constitutes a problem. 

There are so many examples.  A few that stand out for their egregiousness are (1) "Get me flowers for my birthday and Valentine's Day" -- something that I did without fail anyhow -- and the problem arose from that was "If you don't get me flowers from a particular florist, do not get me flowers at all." (2) "Get me a nice card for my birthday, Valentine's Day, and Mothers Day" -- again, something that was done without fail -- and the problem that arose from it was "Unless you get me a nice card from Hallmark or American Greetings, do not get me a card.  I was also admonished to shop for her greeting cards very early, so that I had a wide selection. (3) Wash the dishes.  I often did this anyhow, but after she told me that I must wash the dishes, she would jump in front of me and grab them and act upset because she thought I was making some kind of negative statement about her housekeeping skills. (4) The lawn should be picture perfect at all times.  I would work on the lawn until it was picture perfect. Then I would be criticized for being obsessive about the way I was working on the lawn.  I'd cut back on my lawn care activities, and the criticism would be "You're giving up on the lawn. Don't you have any pride?" (5) "My grandfather never gave my grandmother gifts. If you do that (fail to give me gifts), I will divorce you." Then the gifts I would give her would be critiqued and labeled inadequate, and I would be call thoughtless. It got to the point where I said "I am just going to give you an American Express gift card from now on." (6) Within the couple's therapy context, "I want him (me) to only empathize with me when I tell him about a problem I am having; I do not want him to help with a solution." I would then merely empathize with her when she presented me with a problem. Inevitably, and quickly, this was a basis for criticism. "I told (him) that someone had stolen the checks out of her car, and all he said was 'That's too bad' instead of offering a solution."

Really, there is so much more I could add to this list.  But today I asked my T why it is that someone with her "makeup and tendencies" as he likes to put it (NPD, BPD traits) does not have some kind of governor or moral center that halts these things, some voice that says "Wait.  It's wrong to treat another human being like this."

What he said startled me.  He said that there is no constant moral center as I conceive of it.  He said that if there is a governor inside her, it sees no conflict between telling someone that he must wash the dishes to make her happy, and then jumping in front of him to prevent him from washing the dishes and criticizing him for it. 

It's still very hard for me to accept this.  It makes me think that people with BPD are not moral actors in the conventional sense.  It also makes me think that it never was possible to have any kind of relationship with her. 

But if there is a view from the inside, what was said to me by my T today seems to have come close to giving it, to describing the fundamental problem with pwBPD (at least in terms of their behavior).       

[Trog]

Now she's gonna have to mow her own goddamn lawn!

Its amazing what we tolerate with the drip drip demands.

As to your final words, for me it was the same, grand demands (or else I'll divorce you) and then criticisms when you actually do it.

I think this is the worst of BPD, you're damned if you do and damned and if you don't and it makes you feel so hopeless and worthless, like nothing you can do is ever enough and appreiciated, its a terrible, horrible way to feel and it comes on like mould, slowly, creeping, if it were one day to the next you could recognise it and tell them to cheese off.

They are just not like us, they are not operating from the same place and thats where a lot of the sociopath comments come from. I saw my first ever email to my ex after my first date with her and first argument, I identified her as a sociopath then. How I could have saved myself 7 years (I did not know what BPD was until later).

[Turkish]

Really, there is so much more I could add to this list.  But today I asked my T why it is that someone with her "makeup and tendencies" as he likes to put it (NPD, BPD traits) does not have some kind of governor or moral center that halts these things, some voice that says "Wait.  It's wrong to treat another human being like this."

What he said startled me.  He said that there is no constant moral center as I conceive of it.  He said that if there is a governor inside her, it sees no conflict between telling someone that he must wash the dishes to make her happy, and then jumping in front of him to prevent him from washing the dishes and criticizing him for it.  

It's still very hard for me to accept this.  It makes me think that people with BPD are not moral actors in the conventional sense.  It also makes me think that it never was possible to have any kind of relationship with her.  

Leaving aside my brief armchair Dx of her 8 months into our 6 year r/s as being possibly BPD (which I dismissed for some reason... .maybe because the worse behaviors came after we had kids), I began to think just what your T said above: "It's like her parents never taught her right from wrong, or that she really doesn't have a constant moral center, or it's a moving target... ." and I began to resent her more and lapse into depression and hopelessness. Then I started behaving differently, and the whole thing became a huge mess in about a year's time, with her father's affair being a huge external trigger (she recently came to this conclusion herself, interestingly, when a year out, I had an opportunity to bring it up).

As my T said, though, "personalities typically don't change." It's a conundrum for many here, whether Stayers, Undecideds, or Leavers (and I suppose Parents and Children, too): Since that is their personality which we can't change, how do we change ourselves when we focus on our behaviors, which we can change. This goes for detaching as well, be it a divorce process, custody, or cold NC.

If you haven't read Lawson's book, Understanding the Borderline Mother, it may help to explain a lot of things. It's a tough read though.

[icom]

Therein lies the path to healing: 

Her behaviour had nothing whatsoever to do with you; it was impersonal.

I'm not a BPD apologist, and their poisonous behaviours are truly spectacularly unbelievable; however, it is important to keep things in their proper perspectives.  If our tolerances for emotional distress are measured in +/- 100 meters, their comfort zones are calibrated in +/- 1 mm at best.

As well, I think that it is important to keep in mind that they cannot regulate their emotions; their emotions control them.  When you are under tremendous emotional distress-either very angry or very sad-how does it effect your perception of the world?  Multiply that by 100, and you are coming close to their reality. 

  Every one of us has lost their cool, and said something inappropriate in the heat of the moment that they later regret.  We are all familiar with that bitter stinging sensation after the fact.  Multiply that feeling by a 100, and you are still not coming close to approximating their reality. 

  How would you feel?  Trapped in your own mind; unable to regulate your emotions; prone to engaging in behaviours that crucify you with shame afterwards; behaviours that you cannot control?

  The key to moving beyond this experience is to acknowledge that none of those unacceptably horrendous experiences we endured were genuinely motivated by malice.       

[Trog]

Therein lies the path to healing: 

Her behaviour had nothing whatsoever to do with you; it was impersonal.

I'm not a BPD apologist, and their poisonous behaviours are truly spectacularly unbelievable; however, it is important to keep things in their proper perspectives.  If our tolerances for emotional distress are measured in +/- 100 meters, their comfort zones are calibrated in +/- 1 mm at best.

As well, I think that it is important to keep in mind that they cannot regulate their emotions; their emotions control them.  When you are under tremendous emotional distress-either very angry or very sad-how does it effect your perception of the world?  Multiply that by 100, and you are coming close to their reality. 

  Every one of us has lost their cool, and said something inappropriate in the heat of the moment that they later regret.  We are all familiar with that bitter stinging sensation after the fact.  Multiply that feeling by a 100, and you are still not coming close to approximating their reality. 

  How would you feel?  Trapped in your own mind; unable to regulate your emotions; prone to engaging in behaviours that crucify you with shame afterwards; behaviours that you cannot control?

  The key to moving beyond this experience is to acknowledge that none of those unacceptably horrendous experiences we endured were genuinely motivated by malice.       

I truly want to believe that, and maybe in most BPD cases they are not motivated by malice, but how do we explain the smirks when they see you upset? The twisting of the knife when you are on your knees (my ex would mock or make inappropriate comments over my mother being ill - this was the nail in my exes coffin). There's a million more examples of what I can only describe as deliberate cruelty... .calling me on xmas day to tell me she is sexually into another person when we had not even spoken for weeks, clearly to ruin my Xmas. In my particular case, I could be dealing with some other PD.

[Tim300]

(4) The lawn should be picture perfect at all times.  I would work on the lawn until it was picture perfect. Then I would be criticized for being obsessive about the way I was working on the lawn.  I'd cut back on my lawn care activities, and the criticism would be "You're giving up on the lawn. Don't you have any pride?"

I was put in a few similar situations (i.e., no-win situations).  I don't understand exactly what typically causes a pwBPD to put nons in these situations.  For example, do they consciously plot to put people in no-win situations?  If so, where do they even learn to do this?  I mean, do they read about it as an abuse tactic or does someone teach them to do this?  (I had never even heard of no-win situations until being put through this relationship.)  Or, perhaps more innocently, the pwBPD is just in a bad mood and forgot what she originally wanted and just wants to complain now?  Or perhaps the pwBPD wants to break up and is intentionally finding fault to somehow push that agenda?

Out of each of the above scenarios, perhaps the most terrifying is if the person is consciously plotting to abuse the non with no-win situations, for no purpose other than to abuse.  Does anyone think that this is what happens?   

[goateeki]

Turkish, thanks.  I plan to get the book.  I have two kids to raise with her, and our youngest is only 7.  Possibly a tough road ahead.  All information is helpful.  All tools are helpful, I should say.

[icom]

As stated, Trog: faulty interpretations of reality that cannot be shaken despite clear evidence to the contrary; they do not inhabit the same plane of consciousness as us... .not at all. 

A metacognitive inability to recognize the extremity of their condition.

A metacognitive inability to learn from their mistakes. 

This is where many stumble into error: in seeing a correspondence to our interpretation of reality where there is none.  This should be axiomatic, as they cannot control their emotions.

In terms of functioning (and emotional lability) think in terms of a dog: delirious with joy one second, then fast asleep in a pool of their saliva the next. 

Their perception of reality is entirely defensive, entirely Pathologic:

"  These six defences, in conjunction, permit one to effectively rearrange external experiences to eliminate the need to cope with reality. The pathological users of these mechanisms frequently appear irrational or insane to others."

The cold hard facts of BPD:

Delusional projection: Delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature.

Conversion: The expression of an intrapsychic conflict as a physical symptom; some examples include blindness, deafness, paralysis, or numbness. This phenomenon is sometimes called hysteria.

Denial: Refusal to accept external reality because it is too threatening; arguing against an anxiety-provoking stimulus by stating it doesn't exist; resolution of emotional conflict and reduction of anxiety by refusing to perceive or consciously acknowledge the more unpleasant aspects of external reality.

Distortion: A gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs.

Splitting: A primitive defence. Both harmful and helpful impulses are split off and unintegrated, frequently projected onto someone else. The defended individual segregates experiences into all-good and all-bad categories, with no room for ambiguity and ambivalence. When "splitting" is combined with "projecting", the undesirable qualities that one unconsciously perceives oneself as possessing, one consciously attributes to another.

Extreme projection: The blatant denial of a moral or psychological deficiency, which is perceived as a deficiency in another individual or group.

[goateeki]

(4) The lawn should be picture perfect at all times.  I would work on the lawn until it was picture perfect. Then I would be criticized for being obsessive about the way I was working on the lawn.  I'd cut back on my lawn care activities, and the criticism would be "You're giving up on the lawn. Don't you have any pride?"

I was put in a few similar situations (i.e., no-win situations).  I don't understand exactly what typically causes a pwBPD to put nons in these situations.  For example, do they consciously plot to put people in no-win situations?  If so, where do they even learn to do this?  I mean, do they read about it as an abuse tactic or does someone teach them to do this?  (I had never even heard of no-win situations until being put through this relationship.)  Or, perhaps more innocently, the pwBPD is just in a bad mood and forgot what she originally wanted and just wants to complain now?  Or perhaps the pwBPD wants to break up and is intentionally finding fault to somehow push that agenda?

Out of each of the above scenarios, perhaps the most terrifying is if the person is consciously plotting to abuse the non with no-win situations, for no purpose other than to abuse.  Does anyone think that this is what happens?   

"Out of each of the above scenarios, perhaps the most terrifying is if the person is consciously plotting to abuse the non with no-win situations, for no purpose other than to abuse.  Does anyone think that this is what happens?"

Tim, I'm in a new and, I admit, great relationship now. I have perspective on what is and is not normal, healthy emotional functioning.  This allows my T to be more forthright with me, because I'm on the curve he wants me to be on.  He said today for the first time that it was abuse.  To make matters more gray, he said that in all probability, it was at times mere reflex or reaction and at other times conscious, deliberate abuse, which to me sounds like sadism.  If there is a person I've known whose life would make her prone to sadism, it would be my ex wife.  If she were a man, she'd have broken my face. 

There were times that she hit me -- and I swear, for reasons I never understood, just explosive anger -- and me merely putting up an arm to block her arm or pushing her away so she couldn't hit my face made me feel like a wife beater.  Terrible stuff.   

[enlighten me]

(4) The lawn should be picture perfect at all times.  I would work on the lawn until it was picture perfect. Then I would be criticized for being obsessive about the way I was working on the lawn.  I'd cut back on my lawn care activities, and the criticism would be "You're giving up on the lawn. Don't you have any pride?"

I was put in a few similar situations (i.e., no-win situations).  I don't understand exactly what typically causes a pwBPD to put nons in these situations.  For example, do they consciously plot to put people in no-win situations?  If so, where do they even learn to do this?  I mean, do they read about it as an abuse tactic or does someone teach them to do this?  (I had never even heard of no-win situations until being put through this relationship.)  Or, perhaps more innocently, the pwBPD is just in a bad mood and forgot what she originally wanted and just wants to complain now?  Or perhaps the pwBPD wants to break up and is intentionally finding fault to somehow push that agenda?

Out of each of the above scenarios, perhaps the most terrifying is if the person is consciously plotting to abuse the non with no-win situations, for no purpose other than to abuse.  Does anyone think that this is what happens?   

They can plot these situations. An example is I got up one morning and made myself coffee. There wasnt much milk left. Just enough for her kids breakfast so I had it black. My exgf walks into the kitchen see's me drinking coffee and launches into a tirade about how selfish I was depriving her kids of breakfast and how im alright as I can have my coffee. I slowly tipped the cup so she could see it was black. She stopped in her tracks and walked off only to come back ten minutes later to berate me over something else.

So she went to bed knowing there wasnt much milk and rather than mention it so I could get some more she left it so she could have a go at me.

[Trog]

Cheers Icom, thats very helpful. I've read a lot about BPD and that puts a lot of her extreme behaviour is consise context. I'm going to read that thru again later today.


On the deliberate - I think its on-purpose but yes, I think its learnt. She had a very abusive mother who would surely have taught her this haughty/twisting behaviour and behaved this way to her husband and kids. Its the blueprint she has, strangely her sisters do manage much better despite having the same parental home, but as the first kid, my ex got it worse and I tell you what, even if I can't feel much compassion right now, I am so relieved to have had my mother than hers, I have gone crazy with this crazy behaviour from my ex as an ADULT, imagine that cruelty toward a kid. Not any wonder i guess.

[Tim300]

(4) The lawn should be picture perfect at all times.  I would work on the lawn until it was picture perfect. Then I would be criticized for being obsessive about the way I was working on the lawn.  I'd cut back on my lawn care activities, and the criticism would be "You're giving up on the lawn. Don't you have any pride?"

I was put in a few similar situations (i.e., no-win situations).  I don't understand exactly what typically causes a pwBPD to put nons in these situations.  For example, do they consciously plot to put people in no-win situations?  If so, where do they even learn to do this?  I mean, do they read about it as an abuse tactic or does someone teach them to do this?  (I had never even heard of no-win situations until being put through this relationship.)  Or, perhaps more innocently, the pwBPD is just in a bad mood and forgot what she originally wanted and just wants to complain now?  Or perhaps the pwBPD wants to break up and is intentionally finding fault to somehow push that agenda?

Out of each of the above scenarios, perhaps the most terrifying is if the person is consciously plotting to abuse the non with no-win situations, for no purpose other than to abuse.  Does anyone think that this is what happens?   

"Out of each of the above scenarios, perhaps the most terrifying is if the person is consciously plotting to abuse the non with no-win situations, for no purpose other than to abuse.  Does anyone think that this is what happens?"

Tim, I'm in a new and, I admit, great relationship now. I have perspective on what is and is not normal, healthy emotional functioning.  This allows my T to be more forthright with me, because I'm on the curve he wants me to be on.  He said today for the first time that it was abuse.  To make matters more gray, he said that in all probability, it was at times mere reflex or reaction and at other times conscious, deliberate abuse, which to me sounds like sadism.  If there is a person I've known whose life would make her prone to sadism, it would be my ex wife.  If she were a man, she'd have broken my face. 

There were times that she hit me -- and I swear, for reasons I never understood, just explosive anger -- and me merely putting up an arm to block her arm or pushing her away so she couldn't hit my face made me feel like a wife beater.  Terrible stuff.   

Wow.  Thank you for sharing that perspective from the T and your additional details about getting hit.  I too was hit like this w/o any clear trigger from me.  One of the most mind-boggling things is trying to understand how your soulmate could physically attack you and want to do you harm.  When I tried to very gently restrain my ex from hitting me in the head with an object, she immediately threatened to file DV charges and ruin my career.  Meanwhile, I had worked very, very hard to establish my career and I was paying 100% of our bills and giving her additional money on top of that even though we were only engaged.  It just makes no sense.  It is very scary.  It's like they have DID and there is a sadistic side that they can't control even when it's in their absolute best interest to control it.   

[icom]

Cheers Icom, thats very helpful. I've read a lot about BPD and that puts a lot of her extreme behaviour is consise context. I'm going to read that thru again later today.


On the deliberate - I think its on-purpose but yes, I think its learnt. She had a very abusive mother who would surely have taught her this haughty/twisting behaviour and behaved this way to her husband and kids. Its the blueprint she has, strangely her sisters do manage much better despite having the same parental home, but as the first kid, my ex got it worse and I tell you what, even if I can't feel much compassion right now, I am so relieved to have had my mother than hers, I have gone crazy with this crazy behaviour from my ex as an ADULT, imagine that cruelty toward a kid. Not any wonder i guess.

You will find that as soon as you reconfigure your perception of this event from one of heaping blame upon an equal (a mild distortion of our own creation), to one of understanding that the relationship was little more than an idealised projection of how you wished things would be, then you will easily walk away from all the harm and chaos that accompanied your time with this person. 

As I am quick to point out to my friends: why do you expect perfection from your partner (and in your relationships) when life-in general-is nothing but a welter of madness at the best of time? 

I walked away from my BPD experience with the healthy understanding that it is a gross impertinence to foist expectations of infallibility on people in general, and on your partner in particular; they are guaranteed to f%^k with your life at some point. 

[Trog]

Cheers Icom, thats very helpful. I've read a lot about BPD and that puts a lot of her extreme behaviour is consise context. I'm going to read that thru again later today.


On the deliberate - I think its on-purpose but yes, I think its learnt. She had a very abusive mother who would surely have taught her this haughty/twisting behaviour and behaved this way to her husband and kids. Its the blueprint she has, strangely her sisters do manage much better despite having the same parental home, but as the first kid, my ex got it worse and I tell you what, even if I can't feel much compassion right now, I am so relieved to have had my mother than hers, I have gone crazy with this crazy behaviour from my ex as an ADULT, imagine that cruelty toward a kid. Not any wonder i guess.

You will find that as soon as you reconfigure your perception of this event from one of heaping blame upon an equal (a mild distortion of our own creation), to one of understanding that the relationship was little more than an idealised projection of how you wished things would be, then you will easily walk away from all the harm and chaos that accompanied your time with this person. 

As I am quick to point out to my friends: why do you expect perfection from your partner (and in your relationships) when life-in general-is nothing but a welter of madness at the best of time? 

I walked away from my BPD experience with the healthy understanding that it is a gross impertinence to foist expectations of infallibility on people in general, and on your partner in particular; they are guaranteed to f%^k with your life at some point. 

"understanding that the relationship was little more than an idealised projection of how you wished things would be"

This thought comes to me more and more often. This is why I am clear that my crying of the past was never really for her, it was for something I had created from the get-go, the death of my fantasy that I tried to plaster upon a pretty face. I do see it. However, I am still not at the point where I think anyone behaving as she did/does towards anyone is OK... .and it wasn't OK for me to accept it. A lot of us get stuck on the pursuit of justice, looking for traces of care from someone who told you they were everything to you, married you etc, it takes some time from the heart to catch up with the head, and also to admit to yourself that you played your role. I had a free choice, I should not have got involved knowing what I knew and I should have left a lot sooner, I thought I could fix her. I was wrong.

[EaglesJuju]

I was put in a few similar situations (i.e., no-win situations).  I don't understand exactly what typically causes a pwBPD to put nons in these situations.  For example, do they consciously plot to put people in no-win situations?  If so, where do they even learn to do this?  I mean, do they read about it as an abuse tactic or does someone teach them to do this?  (I had never even heard of no-win situations until being put through this relationship.)  Or, perhaps more innocently, the pwBPD is just in a bad mood and forgot what she originally wanted and just wants to complain now?  Or perhaps the pwBPD wants to break up and is intentionally finding fault to somehow push that agenda?

Out of each of the above scenarios, perhaps the most terrifying is if the person is consciously plotting to abuse the non with no-win situations, for no purpose other than to abuse.  Does anyone think that this is what happens?   

The majority of the behavior displayed by pwBPD is reactive or impulsive. PwBPD tend to live life moment to moment and do not preemptively think about consequences. Conscious planning does not fit this. As many of us on here have seen the dramatic impulsive behavior, such as one moment your pwBPD is telling you that they love you and the next minute they are leaving without a "reason."

The origin of the behavior of a pwBPD partially stems from an invalidating environment in childhood. The invalidating environment of a caretaker negatively reinforces aversive negative responses. This reinforcement becomes a conditioned response over time. Factor in inherited impulsive control issues with heightened emotional sensitivity (emotional dysregulation) ,thus becomes the foundation of erratic and impulsive behavior.  

What some of us non BPDers think of as abuse (projecting, splitting, etc) is considered a coping mechanism for those with BPD.  

[icom]

Cheers Icom, thats very helpful. I've read a lot about BPD and that puts a lot of her extreme behaviour is consise context. I'm going to read that thru again later today.


On the deliberate - I think its on-purpose but yes, I think its learnt. She had a very abusive mother who would surely have taught her this haughty/twisting behaviour and behaved this way to her husband and kids. Its the blueprint she has, strangely her sisters do manage much better despite having the same parental home, but as the first kid, my ex got it worse and I tell you what, even if I can't feel much compassion right now, I am so relieved to have had my mother than hers, I have gone crazy with this crazy behaviour from my ex as an ADULT, imagine that cruelty toward a kid. Not any wonder i guess.

You will find that as soon as you reconfigure your perception of this event from one of heaping blame upon an equal (a mild distortion of our own creation), to one of understanding that the relationship was little more than an idealised projection of how you wished things would be, then you will easily walk away from all the harm and chaos that accompanied your time with this person. 

As I am quick to point out to my friends: why do you expect perfection from your partner (and in your relationships) when life-in general-is nothing but a welter of madness at the best of time? 

I walked away from my BPD experience with the healthy understanding that it is a gross impertinence to foist expectations of infallibility on people in general, and on your partner in particular; they are guaranteed to f%^k with your life at some point. 

"understanding that the relationship was little more than an idealised projection of how you wished things would be"

This thought comes to me more and more often. This is why I am clear that my crying of the past was never really for her, it was for something I had created from the get-go, the death of my fantasy that I tried to plaster upon a pretty face. I do see it. However, I am still not at the point where I think anyone behaving as she did/does towards anyone is OK... .and it wasn't OK for me to accept it. A lot of us get stuck on the pursuit of justice, looking for traces of care from someone who told you they were everything to you, married you etc, it takes some time from the heart to catch up with the head, and also to admit to yourself that you played your role. I had a free choice, I should not have got involved knowing what I knew and I should have left a lot sooner, I thought I could fix her. I was wrong.

Eaglesjuju states things far more concisely than I was able to do.


I think that many of us suffer from a disadvantaged upbringing: my parents raised me to be courteous, and forebearing; consequently, I was always going to be out of step with reality, and easily seduced to error.     

It’s a difficult journey from the wild, pendulum-like emotional oscillations that wreck havoc with one’s equilibrium as they frantically work towards…not so much an understanding-as one will never truly comprehend the motivation behind the madness (this is not necessarily such a bad thing, as being able to identify with the madness would certainly not work in one’s favour, as we would then inhabit the same plane of experience as them), but an acceptance of the unassailable tragedy that governs life. 

Trog, I am not a happier person for this acceptance, but for the first time in my life, I am no longer at war with myself. 

By “war” I mean that I look to myself for the answers now, and apart from my responsibilities as a citizen, I am independent of censure, as I no longer feel need to dance to another person’s tune in order to be “liked” or “accepted” by them. 

[raisins3142]

What he said startled me.  He said that there is no constant moral center as I conceive of it.  He said that if there is a governor inside her, it sees no conflict between telling someone that he must wash the dishes to make her happy, and then jumping in front of him to prevent him from washing the dishes and criticizing him for it.  

It's still very hard for me to accept this.  It makes me think that people with BPD are not moral actors in the conventional sense.  It also makes me think that it never was possible to have any kind of relationship with her.  

But if there is a view from the inside, what was said to me by my T today seems to have come close to giving it, to describing the fundamental problem with pwBPD (at least in terms of their behavior).      

I think this is an important point.

Just as we cannot understand NOT having this center, and we think by default others have it... .the pwBPD probably can't imagine or conceive of having one and thinks others are much like themselves.

Probably why my ex is BFFs with the other 2 crazy, single women that she works with and doesn't associate with the ones in stable relationships.

[Gonzalo]

There were times that she hit me -- and I swear, for reasons I never understood, just explosive anger -- and me merely putting up an arm to block her arm or pushing her away so she couldn't hit my face made me feel like a wife beater.  Terrible stuff. 

Mine stayed away from physical abuse (probably because it was, at the time, one of my few 'no second chance' boundaries), but I remember once toward the end where she backed me into the corner, getting in my face and shouting at me. I raised my arm defensively, and she hissed something about 'how dare you raise your hand at me' like it was an attack gesture. I remember thinking 'OK, this is it. When she swings at me, I need to let a couple land so there are bruises, then push by her suddenly, rush out the door, call the cops, and hope I'm not the one arrested'. I started repeating 'please get away from me, you're making me nervous' over and over like a robot, and I think once she realized I wasn't going to engage with her until she did back away, she gave up on whatever she was doing.