Do we attend gd concert?

[mother in law]

Here we go again! Gd has a concert for school next week and she is scared that if we go ex dil will have an explosion (her words). This has happened before and we did as told ie were told not to attend gd's events however  my patience is running out and I am sick of the bs (sorry).

If you read another post of mine ex dil (BPD ) stole $300 of gd money which we are replacing with conditions, we pay half her music fees, half of the new computer she needs for high school,  pick her up one day a week after school feed her and take her back (suits both sides) and all we get are conditions (control I know) and no we can't attend gd's events cause she doesn't want to see us and lots of painting us (mainly me) black. FED UP!

Do we:

1- Just turn up and hope gd doesn't have to wear it?

2- Give up helping financially as she just uses us and takes us for a ride? The more we pay the less she has to and the less incentive there is to work (see previous posts)

3- Have it out with her ? (can't see this working it will end in WWlll lies rages and gd will really wear it).

Does it work that the less contact we have with ex dil and the more we all fall into line with her conditions, the more she will do it and even though she has set the conditions the more rejected she will feel?

Are we enabling her?  

Do we need to set boundaries ie we are not willing to give so much financial assistance if we  cannot be involved in the fun things? This sounds a bit revengeful and who wins from this.

Sorry I have so many questions and no answers.  I am at a compete loss! ! HELP!

[david]

Will xdil explode ? If she truly will make a scene then you have to decide what is best for gd. My ex contains herself in public so that would not be an issue for me.

The other thing is that gd is learning to enable her mom too by doing whatever xdil wants. That is unhealthy in the long run for gd.

If you think she will explode at the school, and you decide to go, then you might want to let the school know ahead of time and let them handle xdil. Let the school counselor know what gd's concerns are.

Once our boys school figured my ex out things became much easier for both boys at school.

[livednlearned]

This is a tough one.

Some kids with BPD parents start to develop that specific codependent quality where they think, "If I do xyz, then BPD mom/dad won't do abc."

But often, the conflict happens anyway because feelings = facts for the BPD parent. It might happen for no apparent reason. So your GD might think, "If MIL comes to the concert, it will be bad for me." Even though it might be bad no matter what she does. And it might be good no matter what she does.

The challenge is whether GD understands. Because if she doesn't, then she may think no one is in her corner. You could talk to her about it in terms of boundaries. That you do not want DIL to dictate what you do. But you also understand that showing up could have an effect on GD.

With my son, I realize that sometimes it's about modeling healthy behavior, but it's also about being more patient than I might otherwise need to if he had a normal dad. I prime him, and bring up the subject often. I discuss how I would like to handle it, because those are my boundaries and values. And then we discuss what his values and boundaries are, and he often will say he is not ready to do it the way I suggest. And I respect that.

This way he has the big picture to mull over. I'm starting to see some positive signs, but it's taken me years of doing this. "Here's my value, my boundary. Your values seem to be this, and your boundary seems to be that. Is that correct? How would you like to handle this? What are the consequences of this choice? What are the consequences of that choice?"

It's pretty awful having a raging parent. I tried as hard as I could to minimize feelings of shame, so I would sometimes admit that I failed to be able to do this with his dad, and I'm an adult. But I also felt it was important that he was aware of the choice he was making.

I hope that all made sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the concert is not the point -- it's modeling a healthy approach to a tricky situation, and doing it in a way where your GD feels loved and supported regardless of whether or not you attend. And probably more important, she sees that her choices in how she let's her mom steam roll her boundaries has consequences for her.

[mother in law]

David, exdil will not explode in public (her cultural mores will not let her!) but when she gets home gd will hear her rage ad infinitum. I agree about the enabling, they all do it my son (her ex husband), my husband (I have started talking to him about this ie he is not doing anyone any favours by doing it). It is interesting  the two people she hates most are myself and a friend of my sons and both of us were nurses and refused to enable we both created our own boundaries (I didn't realise I was doing this at the time)! Everyone else enables and they say it is for peace but ultimately it doesn't draw any boundaries for us nons and I feel as if I am selling my soul!

When is gd old enough to start teaching about enabling and how would you do this? At the moment at 12 it is hard for her to say to her mother "you may feel like this but I don't and I am not going to stay and listen now. I will come back when you are calmer". A 12 year old cannot just walk out and we live in a big city so she cannot just walk around the corner to us or her dad. With the money issue she is working out her mum but it is a bit of a process.

Livednlearned With my son, I realize that sometimes it's about modelling healthy behaviour, but it's also about being more patient than I might otherwise need to if he had a normal dad. I prime him, and bring up the subject often. I discuss how I would like to handle it, because those are my boundaries and values. And then we discuss what his values and boundaries are, and he often will say he is not ready to do it the way I suggest. And I respect that. Good advice. I may talk to son about this as gd really trusts him.

I do realise I cannot just barge in, I was venting somewhat as the enablers around me are willing to let sleeping dogs lie so as to keep the peace (they do not see it is a short lived peace) and it frustrates me as it is like having the sword of Damocles forever having over your head -"do this or she will come down heavily upon us" arrrrgh! I am trying to learn patience but sometimes it gets to me.

I like doing things for gd, I think sometimes she has a really sh... .y life (sorry again) but I am as sick of all those enabling and us being held to ransom. I don't want to say no more money as it doesn't meet gd's needs and only really punishes her and I don't really want to punish anyone (including exdil) just be treated fairly (I realise this may never happen but enabling pretty much ensures it will never happen). On the positive side I do get to see gd (and she is lovely and we love her lots) and lots of grandparents on this site do not and I am eternally grateful for that. It would be heart breaking.

[david]

Can you figure a way that gd goes with you or her dad after the concert ? This may not work all the time but sometimes comes in handy for me.

[livednlearned]

When is gd old enough to start teaching about enabling and how would you do this? At the moment at 12 it is hard for her to say to her mother "you may feel like this but I don't and I am not going to stay and listen now. I will come back when you are calmer".

I think it's safer to focus on how she does this with peers and other adults. It's pretty flat out scary to be a kid and deal with a disordered mentally ill parent. It also depends on whether the issue of the parent's mental illness is out on the table or not. I've done different things depending on the level of knowledge S13 had. Before everything came out, I modeled what was healthy, and S13 saw a T. We also talked about what characters were doing in movies/shows. I think because of all the validation stuff I've been doing with S13, he is very willing to share with me what goes on in his friendships. I don't judge, we just talk about the issue, how he handled it. It's a very, very slow process but I see the fruits of all this work. We're not out of the woods, but I know he is dealing with difficult situations with more skill because he learned it from me. Middle school is a shark tank   so lots of material to work with there.

If anything, with your GD, the best thing you can do is validate her when she even hints at her difficulties with her mom. I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not, but I validated S13 by saying what was true: "It's hard for adults to manage these situations, like when N/BPDx is acting like that, or when he seems confused and doesn't make sense, so it's going to be twice as hard for kids. I think it's smart to protect yourself as best you can, whatever you think is going to work." Over the years we have talked about different ways he can handle situations. It sort of hangs in the air that we're talking about his dad, but usually the topic is friends or teachers.

My son is a bit fragile, so that's affected how I work on this stuff with him. Tougher more resilient, resourceful kids might be able to stand up to their parent, but I suspect that's not typical for kids with BPD parents.

[mother in law]

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies.  Just to let you know I got over my irritations within 24 hours of writing the 1st post.  Sometimes you just need to vent! !  My husband is not very good at listening to venting. ... He is the strong silent type and just wishes it would all go away! ! Well it happened that we went to the concert but sadly her mother didn't cause she couldn't get a ride.  The sad thing about that is I would happily take her but she refuses to have anything to do with us.

Lnl you are full of  wise advice. Last  week I saw exdil when dropping gd home and the look of anger on her face was amazing . I knew there would be fireworks after seeing me.  When I babysat gd the next night I said to gd " I noticed mummy was angry when she saw me.  Gd said a few words confirming this.  I then said to gd " look love i realise it is hard to listen to someone being mean about someone you love, it doesn't really matter what she says.  I don't need to know about it.  If you want to talk to daddy about it that's OK and good.  Just don't feel you need to defend me if it makes it worse as long as you know what is truth and what isn't and if you are unsure just ask daddy". I also told her the old rhyme we used to say when we were children.  "Sticks and stones still break my bones but names will never hurt me. " she loved it.

Don't know if I was right but I felt somehow I needed to give her permission not to feel bad about what best mother says.     this is how I feel most of the time confused! !

[livednlearned]

Don't know if I was right but I felt somehow I needed to give her permission not to feel bad about what best mother says.  

I have to imagine that this validates something so complex our kids don't have words for it. They need to feel secure -- a lot of their experiences with BPD parents is about trying anything they can to find some of that security with one of the most important people in their lives. The BPD goalposts are always moving, so security is pretty much impossible, even though the kids never give up trying.

So you give GD reassurance when you show you understand how impossible her predicament is. It would be ideal if we could teach our kids to assert boundaries with BPD parents but that is just not realistic. I never expected S13 to be able to do what I could not, especially after divorce, when I could not be in the house modeling it for him.

And I think you modeled something for her that will always be in her frame of reference. You showed her that even though her mom is mean to you, it doesn't change how you feel about GD. Somewhere in her, GD may put two and two together to realize that BPD mom might be mean to her, but that doesn't change how GD feels about GD.  

[Panda39]

I then said to gd " look love i realise it is hard to listen to someone being mean about someone you love, it doesn't really matter what she says.  I don't need to know about it.  If you want to talk to daddy about it that's OK and good.  Just don't feel you need to defend me if it makes it worse as long as you know what is truth and what isn't and if you are unsure just ask daddy". I also told her the old rhyme we used to say when we were children.  "Sticks and stones still break my bones but names will never hurt me. " she loved it.

Don't know if I was right but I felt somehow I needed to give her permission not to feel bad about what best mother says.

Just wanted to say I think you did a great job here.     

[rarsweet]

My counselor recently told me " don't ever adjust yourself because of what someone else may do". You are not responsible for dil's actions. Picture you are shopping with a five year old and he starts throwing a fit because he wants candy. Do you give in and give him the candy, do you stop going shopping to avoid tantrums, do you hit him, nope. If you think something is the right thing then do it. Kind of another silly thing, but I am a bartender, and to you know why customers should never argue with the bartender? Because the bartender is thesober one. Well you are the rational one.

[Rubies]

My counselor recently told me " don't ever adjust yourself because of what someone else may do". You are not responsible for dil's actions. Picture you are shopping with a five year old and he starts throwing a fit because he wants candy. Do you give in and give him the candy, do you stop going shopping to avoid tantrums, do you hit him, nope. If you think something is the right thing then do it. Kind of another silly thing, but I am a bartender, and to you know why customers should never argue with the bartender? Because the bartender is thesober one. Well you are the rational one.

This is how I am now.  I am done living on my tippy toes to pacify others.    I'm glad you went to gd's concert.  The important thing is you are there for her.