Question about language interpretation in BPD

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Since going LC with my uBPD mother, she calls me on a somewhat regular basis. I noticed something and I was wondering if any of you have noticed it also: We will be having an almost normal conversation and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, she will misinterpret a phrase for something that sounds similar but vile. It would be for example, if I said, "I didn't give a buck to charity." She would respond, "Oh, you rat you. You didn't give a *uck. Hahaha!" This would be after several minutes of normal or analytical discussion. She really thought that's what I said. It didn't strike me as a deliberate false accusation that I am so familiar with and that has been discussed frequently on the board. It would take some discussion to convince her of what it really was that I said, but the topic would suddenly be over. It's always something vile or sexual that sounds similar, like their minds are constantly there. Then the misinterpretation suddenly ends the topic of discussion. I was wondering if any of you have noticed the same pattern?

Also, she quizzes me often on whatever happened to people who I had known from school or work who had mental problems. I don't know a whole lot of people like that, maybe two or three over the course of a lifetime. But almost every phone call, she brings them up and wants to discuss them at length, as if she wants to make herself look sane by being able to point out their flaws. I was wondering if any of you also have that brought up as a frequent discussion topic?

[CalledaPerson]

Since going LC with my uBPD mother, she calls me on a somewhat regular basis. I noticed something and I was wondering if any of you have noticed it also: We will be having an almost normal conversation and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, she will misinterpret a phrase for something that sounds similar but vile. It would be for example, if I said, "I didn't give a buck to charity." She would respond, "Oh, you rat you. You didn't give a *uck. Hahaha!" This would be after several minutes of normal or analytical discussion. She really thought that's what I said. It didn't strike me as a deliberate false accusation that I am so familiar with and that has been discussed frequently on the board. It would take some discussion to convince her of what it really was that I said, but the topic would suddenly be over. It's always something vile or sexual that sounds similar, like their minds are constantly there. Then the misinterpretation suddenly ends the topic of discussion. I was wondering if any of you have noticed the same pattern?

Also, she quizzes me often on whatever happened to people who I had known from school or work who had mental problems. I don't know a whole lot of people like that, maybe two or three over the course of a lifetime. But almost every phone call, she brings them up and wants to discuss them at length, as if she wants to make herself look sane by being able to point out their flaws. I was wondering if any of you also have that brought up as a frequent discussion topic?

[Turkish]

"Like calls to like."

My mom has, in retrospect, surrounded herself with dysfunctional people. She likes to talk about it. When I first shared my arm chair Dx of my Ex as being BPD, she responded,."of course she's BPD!"

My uBDx rarely liked talking to her because my mom would often talk about dysfunction (t

triggering my Ex). Sometimes I cut phone conversations short because my mom starts talking about the dysfunctional people in her life. I think my mom may over "diagnose" people, too.  That she's an RN doesn't help... .

[Sunfl0wer]

About language interpretation, my ex did that.  He would misunderstand something I said.  Whereas another person would use understanding and context of what kind of person I am to "fill in the blank," he didn't have this ability and it would baffle me.  Since coming here, this makes more sense to me now.

[Linda Maria]

Hi all.  This is interesting.  When my uBPDsis turned on me 2 years ago, following the death of my Mum, there was constant "misunderstanding".  I invited her over for several Bank Holiday weekends so she wouldn't be on her own but she wouldn't come.   (We are only just over an hour away).  In May when we were together one day I asked if she'd like to come to my daughter's concert which was in July, on uBPDsis' birthday, then we could go for a meal after, and she could stay over - it was a Friday.  She said she'd let me know,  A couple of weeks later she wouldn't come to my house to do the estate paperwork - I always had to go to her, although it was half-term, and she could have seen the kids if she'd come to ours for a change.  But I gave in, and went there, and took my daughter as she hadn't seen her for about 6 weeks.  That was the day she started with the nasty lies - and she said - in front of my daughter - that I had said she couldn't see the kids till July!  I had brought my daughter with me that day to see her!  Another time, when she had sent me a nasty text, but mentioned her dissertation, I texted back, ignored all the nasty stuff, and said I hoped her dissertation was going well, and perhaps we could have a nice family get together when she graduated.  This was in August, I didn't know when the graduation ceremony was.  Later she accused me of saying that she couldn't see us before May!  I didn't know what this meant, but later found out the graduation was in May.  How do they manage to twist such neutral, or nice suggestions into these ridiculous accusations?  And why do they want to?  I will never understand why - if I'm this monster - she doesn't just leave me alone - why the need to lie all the time?  I'll stop there - turning into a major rant!  Sorry!

[Ziggiddy]

Hi CalledaPerson

I found this quite intriguing - especially the part where she would say a word that was similar to yours but with a sleazy spin. My mum is big on wordplay and it never occurred to me until recently that it may have anything to do with BPD but some of what I read rang alarm bells.

Sometimes I think it's an immaturity thing, you know? like when young kids s___ over naughty words "heheh - she said bum!" sort of thing but I noticed recently that these kinds of wordplays preempt some "boundary riding" behaviour in my mother. generally when she's about to invade somehow.

I have previously thought of it as a distraction from whatever the conversation is but I can ind no consistent links.

Part of me suspects it has to do with brain make-up and language developmental delay.

Still I would be interested to know how much of it is deliberate and how much of it is distraction.

Ziggiddy

[CalledaPerson]

Thanks for your replies. Ziggiddy - I think my situation is like what you're talking about. It seems to be caused by a combination of immaturity and distraction caused by a short attention span, and just not listening. I noticed she did not remember some things I had told her several times, such as my car getting broken into. Can you imagine your child being robbed and being so self-absorbed that you don't even hear them tell you that? They don't listen at all. I'm starting to not understand the point of even talking to her if she doesn't listen to a thing I say.

[Ziggiddy]

  Can you imagine your child being robbed and being so self-absorbed that you don't even hear them tell you that?

Sadly yes I can.

I fractured my skull and was in intensive care after a bad car accident and my mother was crying because my father didn't realise that she needed support because her daughter had been injured. Took me years to untangle that!

But yes, I believe the cognitive processing is interrupted if the content of what you are saying is of no use to her in the immediate.

I wouldn't put it all down to memory lapse or ADD or ADHD because plenty of people can still apply themselves to understanding how you must have felt about being robbed. I wonder if she was more focussed internally and as your experience was not one she could ... .'benefit' from if she simply discounted it? It certainly demonstrates a lack of empathy for you at best.

[Leaving]

Thanks for your replies. Ziggiddy - I think my situation is like what you're talking about. It seems to be caused by a combination of immaturity and distraction caused by a short attention span, and just not listening. I noticed she did not remember some things I had told her several times, such as my car getting broken into. Can you imagine your child being robbed and being so self-absorbed that you don't even hear them tell you that? They don't listen at all. I'm starting to not understand the point of even talking to her if she doesn't listen to a thing I say.

My ' mother'... .heheheh  love that term... .is the same as all here have described.  I believe they are very uncomfortable around us, very intimidated and because of that, they fear anything we are about to say. They fear being exposed and shamed by everyone.  The fear causes their brains to flip a switch and put them in a state of denial and disconnect.  They hear what they want and need to hear and will take most everything out of context ( reinterpret it) as a means to avoid.  My mother interrupts me constantly, finishes my sentences ( the part she always remembers of course) and I always feel like I have to rush to get my point across before she interrupts me and changes the subject.  I gets so full of anxiety when trying to talk to her that I'm out of breath! 

As far as not remembering... .hmmm well, my mother is NPD/BPD and I don't know any narcissist that remembers much about anyone except themselves.  My mother is even proud that she doesn't remember anyone's birthday and thinks that's an admirable quality because she has a royal mind that shouldn't be put to such petty use. However, G-d forbid that anyone ( one of the peasants) forget anything about HER!  She is very selfish and very immature.   I've heard so many adult children of N parents say, ' I don't feel like my mother/father even knows who I am' and sadly, they are probably right.  My mother has always seen me as being her... .I was always her ' Mini-Me' and now she's noticing ( after years of NC) that I'm not like her at all.  I'm noticing it too!  Yeeha!  I have nothing in common with my mother.  I'm everything she hates and I'm not saying that because I feel sorry for myself.  I just mean that literally, we are complete opposites.

Zig, my mother never cared at all about me or my health as a child UNLESS doing so would draw attention to her. Everything was about her.   Neighbors, teachers and other people would force her to take me to get medical care and she would end up getting loads of pity from everyone who believed she was so worried about me.  I was invisible.

Calleda, your mother reminds you of the dysfunctional people in your life because she's trying to degrade and demoralize you- in other words belittle you to a position beneath her.   I would tell you not to listen to such but it's hard not to.  This is why it's very difficult to have contact until you are strong, confident and healthy enough to be able to establish and uphold boundaries.  I too was robbed and my mother blamed me.  When I called her because I needed support, she said, ' what kind of people do you hang out with' as if if were my fault I was robbed because I had unsavory friends.   She didn't come to my house or comfort me in the least bit. 

[cleotokos]

My experience is much like Linda Maria's. Misinterpretation and twisting of things said. I've never thought it was on purpose, and it's usually somewhat random and neutral things - but uBPDmom will INSIST I said whatever odd thing she thinks I said, as if her memory is totally infallible. The most recent (this happens less since I went NC for a while) was that my boyfriend was mad when I went to Spain with a girlfriend because he wasn't invited. This is a complete fabrication - he thought it was fabulous that I was going to Spain! Our relationship was fairly new at the time and I think if he'd thrown a fit about something like that it may have been a red flag that ended things. A couple of years later I went to Mexico with another girlfriend - my boyfriend was not as thrilled with that as he felt it was not a smart financial decision at the time - he was probably right, but I did go anyways. I'm not sure if I discussed that with her and she may have gotten the trips confused, but in any case there was never an issue of him being mad about not being invited anywhere. I didn't offer up the Mexico situation to her as a possibility that she may have been confused on the two trips because I just don't debate these things with her as much as I used to. I used to go on these efforts to "prove" to her that what she said was wrong. One time I pulled out a 10 year old receipt for my first car because she INSISTED that I bought it when I was still a teenager, a couple of years before I actually bought it. As if, growing up so poor and having to support myself from the age of 16 onward, I would not remember when such a monumental purchase in my life happened. Anyways about the Spain thing, when I disagreed she tried to play it off like it was no big deal, saying "oh honey I REMEMBER you saying this to me, it's really not worth arguing about!"

Why does she do this? Sometimes I feel like she doesn't really know how to relate to me, so sometimes she likes to see me riled up. I've always felt she thrives on conflict. She seems to enjoy feeling like the victim, and what role does that leave me other than the aggressor? I swear she tries to pick silly fights on purpose.

[cleotokos]

Forgot to add, Leaving, my mother used to try and finish my sentences too - but she would always finish them incorrectly. It's like at the same time she's having an *actual* conversation with me, she's having an imaginary conversation in her head where I'm saying something completely different. I think that speaks to her misremembering things that I've said later.

[Leaving]

My experience is much like Linda Maria's. Misinterpretation and twisting of things said. I've never thought it was on purpose, and it's usually somewhat random and neutral things - but uBPDmom will INSIST I said whatever odd thing she thinks I said, as if her memory is totally infallible. The most recent (this happens less since I went NC for a while) was that my boyfriend was mad when I went to Spain with a girlfriend because he wasn't invited. This is a complete fabrication - he thought it was fabulous that I was going to Spain! Our relationship was fairly new at the time and I think if he'd thrown a fit about something like that it may have been a red flag that ended things. A couple of years later I went to Mexico with another girlfriend - my boyfriend was not as thrilled with that as he felt it was not a smart financial decision at the time - he was probably right, but I did go anyways. I'm not sure if I discussed that with her and she may have gotten the trips confused, but in any case there was never an issue of him being mad about not being invited anywhere. I didn't offer up the Mexico situation to her as a possibility that she may have been confused on the two trips because I just don't debate these things with her as much as I used to. I used to go on these efforts to "prove" to her that what she said was wrong. One time I pulled out a 10 year old receipt for my first car because she INSISTED that I bought it when I was still a teenager, a couple of years before I actually bought it. As if, growing up so poor and having to support myself from the age of 16 onward, I would not remember when such a monumental purchase in my life happened. Anyways about the Spain thing, when I disagreed she tried to play it off like it was no big deal, saying "oh honey I REMEMBER you saying this to me, it's really not worth arguing about!"

Why does she do this? Sometimes I feel like she doesn't really know how to relate to me, so sometimes she likes to see me riled up. I've always felt she thrives on conflict. She seems to enjoy feeling like the victim, and what role does that leave me other than the aggressor? I swear she tries to pick silly fights on purpose.

Yes Cleo, she probably does thrive on drama and conflict.  Did your mom like soap operas?  Mine was so addicted to them that she even wanted to change her surname to Carrington ( from Dynasty)... .for real.  My mother thrives on drama and when she isn't getting enough, she becomes very nervous until she can find a way to create more to get her fix of attention from other people or to get someone to express her anger.   I believe they are physically addicted to it.  My husband is also BPD/NPD and he deliberately baits me into conflict all the time. He will even make up the most insane and untrue stories about me to my face in order to get a rise from me.  It's so bizarre that I don't even know how to respond.  My counselor told me that he subconsciously baits me into an argument in order to get me to express the anger that he can't and to also prove that I'm the abusive and aggressive one.  You see, my mother and especially my husband don't ever want to appear like the angry, violent person.  They want to appear to be the happy go lucky victims of such horrible people and so they drive others to become angry, defensive and even violent at times.  I guess it's a form of projection in a way.   This is a very difficult part of our relationship with anyone who has a PD.  We have to be the strong and mature ones and not allow them to affect us and put us on the defense.  Easier said than done.

I completely understand your need to 'prove' that what you remember is accurate. It's really not about proving the petty details as much as it is a need to be acknowledged as an individual.  When they become unwilling to acknowledge the truth about our life, it's like denying that we exist at all.  Having lived with no validation for so much of our life, we reach a point where we won't tolerate the nonsense and we defend ourselves in an effort to get validation from them.  It rarely happens.

I also believe that the reason my mother won't ever apologize for anything she's ever done to anyone is because that would mean she would have to acknowledge the painful truth about herself and how she's hurt others.  This is another reason they write their own history- a story where they have no shame, no blame and are the victim or a hero and therefore don't need to apologize for anything.

[cleotokos]

Leaving, there is something very invalidating about it isn't there? It really makes me wonder about their experience of us. I know others have mentioned a feeling of not being truly seen or known by their BPD's, and this does make me feel that way. She's not listening to me, she's not paying attention to my life. She's wrapped up in her own thoughts when we're in conversation, so much so that she often thinks things she thought at the time are actually things I said.

It also puts you on the defensive - you have to explain, justify your thoughts and feelings and experiences. I feel like I shouldn't have let the Spain issue go. It was a test - like a toddler testing their limits - I've just come off NC fairly recently and my relationship with uBPDmom has been slowly improving. Things are actually going well, for the most part. But this was a needle - she's seeing what she can get away with. It's like, if they can dictate your reality, they get some kind of rush and feel like they've "won". I get so sick of the little battles.

My mom was never into soap operas - she considers herself above average intelligence and soap operas are for the commoners, . Interesting thought about the projection of anger - my mother at some times in her life would look for conflict with anyone, anywhere! A fight in the supermarket, on the bus - she wouldn't turn it down! She's mellowed very much in her older years though.

If my mother ever does apologize, it's in the form of "I'm sorry that you feel x". Does yours do this? It's such a non-apology - she's an expert at loopholes!

[Leaving]

Leaving, there is something very invalidating about it isn't there? It really makes me wonder about their experience of us. I know others have mentioned a feeling of not being truly seen or known by their BPD's, and this does make me feel that way. She's not listening to me, she's not paying attention to my life. She's wrapped up in her own thoughts when we're in conversation, so much so that she often thinks things she thought at the time are actually things I said.

It also puts you on the defensive - you have to explain, justify your thoughts and feelings and experiences. I feel like I shouldn't have let the Spain issue go. It was a test - like a toddler testing their limits - I've just come off NC fairly recently and my relationship with uBPDmom has been slowly improving. Things are actually going well, for the most part. But this was a needle - she's seeing what she can get away with. It's like, if they can dictate your reality, they get some kind of rush and feel like they've "won". I get so sick of the little battles.

My mom was never into soap operas - she considers herself above average intelligence and soap operas are for the commoners, . Interesting thought about the projection of anger - my mother at some times in her life would look for conflict with anyone, anywhere! A fight in the supermarket, on the bus - she wouldn't turn it down! She's mellowed very much in her older years though.

If my mother ever does apologize, it's in the form of "I'm sorry that you feel x". Does yours do this? It's such a non-apology - she's an expert at loopholes!

Oh yes Cleo... .that ' non-apology' is exactly what she does.  It's just another way of telling us that we are the problem, that we are defective or abnormal because we don't agree with them.  They always shift the blame onto others.  You're also right that they push boundaries just like toddlers do.  It's exactly what they do because they 'are' toddlers that are forever stuck in their toddler trauma from their own childhood. They are always pushing boundaries to see how much someone will tolerate and they dispose of those who won't and keep the ones who will- usually the dysfunctional martyrs.  Misery loves company, eh?  My mother has disposed of me a few times in my life.

I recently reconnected with my mother as well and at first I thought she had mellowed with age but now I think she's even worse and perhaps a lot of that is just my perception of her.  What I mean is that because I'm healthier and more aware, I see her illness in HD now instead of SD... .hehehhe 

This morning my mother called me and well, she was just being her nauseating dramatic self   She goes on and on about her golden child son and how he's suffering so because he's a single father and doesn't have time to play golf and attend social functions.  I calmly said, ' Wow, he makes his " horrible" ex-wife look like a saint'.    His ex is a NPD/BPD and her children didn't want to live with her. I had flashbacks of when my brother and I were children and in college and how my mother would spend every last cent to make sure my brother got to go on frequent extravagant academic trips, sports, join fraternities, etc... .but when I wanted to go on just ONE ski trip to Colorado and needed 400 dollars she said NO!  Oh, and here's a good one for you... .when my brother was getting a divorce a few years ago, she called me and asked me to pay for his divorce!  I'm unemployed, broke and my brother is the VP of a huge international bank and earns a 6 figure income plus a lot of other bonuses and perks.  Is that so unreal or what?  Anyway, I reminded my mother that single parents have to make a lot of sacrifices until their children become adults and that if he can't handle it, he should examine his priorities and make the necessary changes or hire a personal assistant so that he can play golf or attend cocktail parties if that's what he needs.  She said,  ' OH NO, he can't afford that!  Oh my gosh, you just don't understand at all what kind of financial hardship he faces having two daughters."  It's remarkable how she insulates her son's situation from other single parents who function on SO SO much less than he has. He paid for his home with cash, he has lots of savings, retirement, etc... .   She was a single parent but for some reason she doesn't seem to apply the same logic to her son. I reminded her that he has the security of a very good job that he goes to every day, has friends at work, socializes with the parents of his daughter's friends, etc... .It's not as if he's trapped in a house all alone doing laundry and baking brownies all day. My gosh.   She refuses  to acknowledge the abusive marriage that I've been in and the immense suffering that I have endured all alone in total isolation and I mean that literally... .NO FRIENDS or family or social contact for the past 8 years. She asked me if I was in therapy and if it helps but when i attempt to discuss it She will NOT even allow me to describe anything negative about anything and she talks over me, begins raising her voice, screaming at me to be quiet and that she must go then accuses me of being violent with absolutely no awareness that she's the one being loud and violent.  I'm so glad I don't have kids because I would never allow my children to know her.  It's interesting that even when I was a teenager, I used to fear getting married and pregnant at some point in my life and my mother finding out.  I would sit with my best friend and plan an escape and a place to live where I was far enough away that I could hide my children from her.  In those days, I planned to move to California because it was the most distant point away from here but now that I'm more worldly I think Antarctica would be a consideration. 

My mother has the most dysfunctional friends and she makes such a big deal about their hardships to the point that she will fall into a depression or emotional wreck but when it comes to her own children- especially me- she doesn't seem to care at all until an opportunity arises where she can use our misery to generate support for herself. 

Yuk.  It's all so sickening really.  If the world were flat, I would have probably jumped off the edge.  I don't know how I managed to survive this long.  Sometimes it scares me to realize all I've endured. 

[CalledaPerson]

Thanks for all your replies. Ziggiddy - I think you're right. It's probably that she's too self-absorbed and what I was telling her probably didn't benefit her at the time. It does show a lack of empathy, at best, like you said.

[stepper123]

I know what you are referring to because my uBPD mom does the same thing. We will have a normal, reasonable conversation, and then BAM, everything turns around and it's like she closed the door on her logical mind.

My shrink referred to this as "disorganized thinking." Sometimes my mom will have moments of clarity and be organized in her thoughts. But sometimes, and I can't ever predict when or how or why, her thinking with suddenly disorganize, seemingly in a second, and her brain will work on different social rules that are fabricated and not based in reality. We are left to pick up the pieces.

What I have learned, and perhaps it will be useful to you, is not to try to analyze it. I see my mother as a very sick individual - like someone who is schizophrenic. It's easier to understand someone who has hallucinations because it is more obviously not based in reality. But it's not so different with BPD. I can't ever talk my mother back into reality. I have to just cut the conversation short and make sure she knows she will not be able to cross certain lines with me. I don't argue with her - I just let it go and make an excuse to leave. I am very strict about it, and while it tends to piss her off, it keeps my life much more balanced not having to feel guilty about my mother's unpredictable state of mind.