From white to black in 3.6 seconds

[Hmcbart]

Tonight I went from be good to being evil in a matter of seconds. Awareness makes this a much different exercise. One innocent comment from me and her smile disappeared and the silence was deafening.

We went to dinner for my oldest as a reward for the Deans list at school. Wife was silent the entire time. I spoke and entertained the kids and mostly just ignored her. I told myself as soon as it happened that I don't own her feelings and it's not up to me to accept the blame her the way she feels. I wasn't trying to upset her and we weren't arguing so it's on her.

This part is more difficult because I do feel bad that she is acting this way. This is what I am working in changing in myself. This was just a first step. I'm sure she will rage at me in a few hours but I'm going to be a punching bag tonight. I will leave if I need to or at least go to another room.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

When... .if... .she wants to talk about what is upsetting her... .

Instead of focusing on it being "on her"... .how about letting it lie on the floor.

As long as you don't "pick it up"... .you are miles ahead of where you used to be.

She may not own her feelings and pick it up... .that's her choice... .and... .in a way of thinking... .not your concern... .as long as you don't own things that you shouldn't own.

2nd.  you don't have to agree to validate her concern... .I'm still working on this... .it's tricky... .but I encourage you to try.

FF

[Hmcbart]

That's kind of what I think I did. I let her speak and I just stayed disconnected. I didn't say a whole lot. I did catch myself JADEING to explain what and why am said what I said but as soon as I caught myself, I stopped.

I pretty much refused to accept things being all my fault. I just didn't get too detailed on the explanation. She kept at it though, rephrasing her questions a different way each time to get a response from me on why I shouldn't have said what I said.

It is difficult even on the best days but I'm extremely tired at the moment also so it makes it harder.

[Hmcbart]

The worse part is I think I was going to get to be the good guy for a while intpstead of the evil guy up until this.

[Notwendy]

Thinking in terms of being the good guy or the bad guy in her eyes is a trap- because the switch is in her hand and she can flip it whenever she wants to. This is her drama, she is the director, and she places people in whatever roles she chooses. You have no control over this.

In the story of your life- you are the director, and the leading man. Whether you are the good guy or the bad guy is determined by the measuring stick of your own ethics and values. You know what role you are when you check in with yourself. Live by your values?- good guy. Let YOURSELF down? Bad guy. How do we let ourselves down? when we compromise who we are by lying, pretending, or doing something we think is unethical.

Some of the things my H used to say to me really hurt my feelings, until I got to the point where I understood that they just were not true. His being disappointed in me used to kick me into gear to try to please him more, but once I had better boundaries I was able to discern what I believed was true about me and what was not true about me. He doesn't get to decide if I am a good person or not. I decide. Over time, some of the behaviors- angry outbursts, silent treatment diminished because they didn't work as well anymore.

You took your kid out to dinner to celebrate his making the Deans list. She could have celebrated too, but she chose to be pissy about it. Her loss. If she has a habit of ruining a good time, then you could consider next celebration- take your child out for ice cream- just the two of you.

[formflier]

The worse part is I think I was going to get to be the good guy for a while intpstead of the evil guy up until this.

This part is "on you"... .because you handed her the power.

You were basing your expectation (it seems) on how she perceived you.

Think about that for a second or two... .actually... .spend a long time thinking about that.

You decided to hand a known disordered person power over your "happiness" or "outlook on life"

Does that seem like a good plan?

FF

[formflier]

 

Notwendy made the point with a bit of a different example... .than how I made the point.

But... .it's the same point.

It's that important... .not just for a r/s with a disordered person... .but for life.

FF

[Notwendy]

One of my favorite Dr. Phil lines was when he was speaking to a family with an anorexic adult child. He was trying to get them all into treatment because they had been WOE around her. He said:

"You are all lost in the woods and you are looking at a disordered person to lead you out?"

Like FF says, we have the power to lead ourselves- that may mean asking for help from a professional, but we can take steps towards our own personal growth.

[Hmcbart]

You are both correct. I did give up my power over me. I knew it as soon as I did it.

I guess it's good and bad. I'm am at stage 2 of the learning process, conscious incompetence. I know what I don't know. I know that I need to keep learning and focusing on me to change my reactions to her actions. Next step conscious competence.

As far as taking him out without her, the only way that would have been possible would have been to send her home. We were all at Boy Scouts when it happened and leaving from there for dinner.

The silent treatment continues today and I'm sure it will for a while. I go out of town for work tomorrow and won't be home until Friday so I can get a small bit of peace from being gone.

I'm half way through the book "Stop Caretaking The Borderline/Narcissist" as well as "Boundaries in Marriage". I will probably finish reading both by Friday. Then I will be putting together an action plan for myself. Step by painful step, I will learn how to change myself.

[formflier]

 

Have you read the "boundaries" book first?

I am a big... .BIG fan of those books. 

I challenge you as you read them to think about yourself... .NOT... .your spouse.  I've read them a couple times... .and I am currently studying them in a Sunday School study.

I'll also say those books are not specific or "pointed at" people that are in a disordered r/s... .(someone that displays pwBPD traits).

So... .please take that book as general advice for yourself... .but any advice on "tactics" with dealing with your wife... .I would encourage you to discuss that thoroughly here before trying to implement. 

Generally... .my guess is that a pwBPD traits would need to here lots of validation and be stable before being exposed to many concepts in that book (boundaries). 

FF

[Hmcbart]

I am kind of reading both at the same time. My ADD kicks in around 8:00 pm and I start reading then.

The boundaries book is not specific to anything other than healthy boundaries nothing about PD's or anything else. It was recommended by my T.

The other one I say a post on here about it. It focuses more on the Caretaker and also deals with boundaries after you get out if the denial & anger stages.

I agree that someone with BPD would need to be realatively stable before beginning some of the things mentioned. I've been trying to stay away from too much boundary setting until I'm mentally able to enforce them. I fear I have a long way to go and with summer getting here and kids out of school, they will be gone for several weeks most likely and I won't get to do too much work with her on anything.

[formflier]

 

Did you read the "Boundary" book first? 

Very good concepts to do lots of thinking on in both books

FF

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

I'm am at stage 2 of the learning process, conscious incompetence.

Not sure why, but that phrase made me laugh... .

[Hmcbart]

It's something I use when I'm training adults.

The four stages are:

Unconscious incompetence --- you don't know what you don't know.

Conscious incompetence ---- you know what you don't know

Conscious competence ---- you know what you know

Unconscious competence ----- you know it and don't have to think about it to do it.

Example:

Stage 1- I had no idea about validation or SET

Stage 2- I learned about it but didn't know it or how to use it

Stage 3- I learned about it but have to think about it to use it

Stage 4- I know it so well that I can do it without thinking about it. Like being a pilot or ER doctor, you trained and practiced for so long that it's just a natural thing to you. It would be like someone asking you show them how you do something that you have been doing for years. You have to stop and think about how you do it to actually show them, you just do it without thinking all the time.

So I'm at stage 2, I know about it but not really sure how to do it.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

I'm guessing this training is non-BPD... .I can see a lot of benefits of this type of thinking in the 'real' world... .

From my long ago, politically active days we would talk about things we didn't know vs. things we didn't know we didn't know... .

[Hmcbart]

Yes it's non-BPD training although it could apply to anyone. A person with BPD who in undiagnosed and does realize they have these tendencies would fall under the unconscious incompetence stage. Someone who's diagnosed and knows they have it but doesn't understand how to adjust their behavior would be in the conscious incompetence and so on.

With this model the only level you cannot stay at is conscious competence (stage 3). You either know and move to the next level or you forget it and move down.