If you are hurting? Knowledge is strength that will get you through

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have been just as hurt as anyone else here, all the newer people to the boards I would like to welcome you and tell you it gets better with knowledge! Even though we are not professionals and cannot specifically diagnose, we are not stupid people that's why we search for answers, we have the ability to read and study and gain knowledge. We know The traits and behaviours we experienced with our SO's, I forget where I read it but I do believe it has been said that even a trained professional would miss a lot of the things a SO Who has experienced the intimate relationship and has knowledge of family history would never miss because of their knowledge of the other person, A trained professional is only going to find out what a borderline will divulge, omission of their own behaviour as I have found in my counselling with mine is huge! As well as omission of past events and denial about family history, in my case my ex Will go to counselling but just claims she has anxiety and likes to be diagnosed with codependency, her general thought about codependency is that codependents care and are always trying to fix things, A codependent is created by an alcoholic parent, codependants always keep giving of themselves even if it hurts themselves!  They will sacrifice themselves for the sake of a relationship,!  I can see why she thinks this because it is a nice poor me little diagnosis with a ounce of truth in it, One of her parents was an alcoholic, she tries really hard in a relationship because she has never kept one, actually tries so hard she smothers it to death, she always does try to fix things but that is by always by giving me a second third fourth fifth sixth seventh eighth ninth and 10th chance for me to change! She could convince any counsellor she is codependent, but she would never tell the rest of the story that would prove she is more borderline. Because I know all about her family history, at least enough to point in the right direction! I know enough about her impulsivity, her dating history, her inability to be alone, her insecurities, and many other things that would be too embarrassing for her to tell a counsellor that would point in the right direction! The experience with her alone is knowledge! Applying it to what I have learned and read about people with problems I am at least knowledgeable enough to know she has a serious problem that stems from things that have happened in her life and it is the culmination of all of this knowledge that keeps me sane and like myself even more because even with all the crap and hurt I have been through, I am a good enough person to give her the benefit of the doubt to help herself and do whatever my part would be to help that along! I believe in my case her anxiety and codependency claims are just part of the FOG tactic where it is poor me feel bad for me I am the victim type of mentality! But I believe this because of my knowledge! NO I am not a professional but all of the information and literature is out there to read and I believe just like anyone who never has changed the brakes on their car could do it if they read how to do it and follow the instructions! If your engine wasn't running right you could at least know what is going wrong by what the engine is actually doing and How it is reacting and do a little research yourself and lead a professional mechanic in the right direction to fix it!  Unfortunately you can just drop your car off to be fixed and tell them what's wrong! Your car has no choice!  You could not do that with another person, they have to do it themselves!  Knowing that and realising that has helped me immensely!

[Targeted]

I have been just as hurt as anyone else here, all the newer people to the boards I would like to welcome you and tell you it gets better with knowledge! Even though we are not professionals and cannot specifically diagnose, we are not stupid people that's why we search for answers, we have the ability to read and study and gain knowledge. We know The traits and behaviours we experienced with our SO's, I forget where I read it but I do believe it has been said that even a trained professional would miss a lot of the things a SO Who has experienced the intimate relationship and has knowledge of family history would never miss because of their knowledge of the other person, A trained professional is only going to find out what a borderline will divulge, omission of their own behaviour as I have found in my counselling with mine is huge! As well as omission of past events and denial about family history, in my case my ex Will go to counselling but just claims she has anxiety and likes to be diagnosed with codependency, her general thought about codependency is that codependents care and are always trying to fix things, A codependent is created by an alcoholic parent, codependants always keep giving of themselves even if it hurts themselves!  They will sacrifice themselves for the sake of a relationship,!  I can see why she thinks this because it is a nice poor me little diagnosis with a ounce of truth in it, One of her parents was an alcoholic, she tries really hard in a relationship because she has never kept one, actually tries so hard she smothers it to death, she always does try to fix things but that is by always by giving me a second third fourth fifth sixth seventh eighth ninth and 10th chance for me to change! She could convince any counsellor she is codependent, but she would never tell the rest of the story that would prove she is more borderline. Because I know all about her family history, at least enough to point in the right direction! I know enough about her impulsivity, her dating history, her inability to be alone, her insecurities, and many other things that would be too embarrassing for her to tell a counsellor that would point in the right direction! The experience with her alone is knowledge! Applying it to what I have learned and read about people with problems I am at least knowledgeable enough to know she has a serious problem that stems from things that have happened in her life and it is the culmination of all of this knowledge that keeps me sane and like myself even more because even with all the crap and hurt I have been through, I am a good enough person to give her the benefit of the doubt to help herself and do whatever my part would be to help that along! I believe in my case her anxiety and codependency claims are just part of the FOG tactic where it is poor me feel bad for me I am the victim type of mentality! But I believe this because of my knowledge! NO I am not a professional but all of the information and literature is out there to read and I believe just like anyone who never has changed the brakes on their car could do it if they read how to do it and follow the instructions! If your engine wasn't running right you could at least know what is going wrong by what the engine is actually doing and How it is reacting and do a little research yourself and lead a professional mechanic in the right direction to fix it!  Unfortunately you can just drop your car off to be fixed and tell them what's wrong! Your car has no choice!  You could not do that with another person, they have to do it themselves!  Knowing that and realising that has helped me immensely!

[2014]

I'm flabbergasted every time, again and again, by the high level of intelligence, knowledge, introspection and lateral thinking of some of the members on this forum. Thank you so much for this post 

[Targeted]

I'm flabbergasted every time, again and again, by the high level of intelligence, knowledge, introspection and lateral thinking of some of the members on this forum. Thank you so much for this post 

Thank you very much,

I just tried to share what I have learned through reading and my experiences with the very place that helped me very much, I believe you can go to college to learn to be whatever you want, but you get the best at what you do by hands-on experience!  And who has better hands on experience with these relationships than us? A professional can treat it better then we could I would admit but as far as seeing the problem? We are the ones who experienced it hands on!

[Trog]

And for those stuck on diagnosis, the doctors really do see many people in a day are roughly acquainted with the notes and only get the clients perspective. My ex has been diagnosed by 3 different doctors with 3 different pd & illnesses and one was irresponsible enough to tell her she didn't need medication, she gleefully came off it and ended up back in the ward within 6 months.

You live with a person, or stay with them for years, you know what's happening and with reading and knowledge can educate yourself. You don't need a doctor or a diagnosis to tell you if you are being mentally abused by a person with x.y or z. In the end the diagnosis will no longer matter, your well being will come first as it always should have.

Good post targeted

[DyingLove]

Targeted you are right. Masters of manipulation and chameleons as well. 

I always say, that no one NO ONE knows my body better than me. Not even a doctor.  Same- a therapist cannot see something that a manipulator hides.  You'd have to sit in on a session and go:  "there!  Did you see her do it!"  "There she did it again!".  Probably ain't gonna happen.  My ex did therapy maybe 3 times max, and the last time she said that the therapist recommended that we break up.  I was annoyed about that, but then I was thinking... .maybe it was the ex's way of getting me to agree that therapy wasn't a good idea.  But I did offer to go with her, and she was AFRAID that I was going to make the T believe what I wanted her too.  Bunch of crap right there.  Why the heck would I bother going to therapy other than I cared?

Alcholism, drugs, beating, all that crap in my ex's childhood. Mother was a runaround with men... .and that is coming directly from my ex!  She's also codependent with her siblings, her brother in particular (instrumental in our breakup as well as her mother).  I can only imagine the smear campaign about me.  Ah, this whole situation just keeps me sickened!

I like your engine analogy!  Excellent.

[Targeted]

Knowledge is healing and the key to success!

Even if it's success with accepting a failure!

[AwakenedOne]

My ex did therapy maybe 3 times max, and the last time she said that the therapist recommended that we break up.  I was annoyed about that, but then I was thinking... .maybe it was the ex's way of getting me to agree that therapy wasn't a good idea.

My ex went to a psychiatrist one time. Immediately after the session ended she called me on the phone to tell me what the P had said. She told me the P said that I am an azzhole. The P also said that she is normal and she doesn't need to go back for any more sessions. For many weeks till the end of the marriage she kept referencing how the P had diagnosed me as being an azzhole.

[DyingLove]

My ex did therapy maybe 3 times max, and the last time she said that the therapist recommended that we break up.  I was annoyed about that, but then I was thinking... .maybe it was the ex's way of getting me to agree that therapy wasn't a good idea.

My ex went to a psychiatrist one time. Immediately after the session ended she called me on the phone to tell me what the P had said. She told me the P said that I am an azzhole. The P also said that she is normal and she doesn't need to go back for any more sessions. For many weeks till the end of the marriage she kept referencing how the P had diagnosed me as being an azzhole.

A friend with a similar predicament worded it superbly:  "BPD's almost have super-human mind capacity to literally implant you into a different reality and make it real. Then, to top it off, they're able to make you "take it." An absolute testament to the power of the mind.:

My ex was a goody two shoes. Prided herself on being a chronic truth teller, but if she did fabricate something that wasn't etched in stone, I'd never know it, like what the therapist said.  She didn't want me to go to therapy with her.  I offered many many time, and explained that I wanted to do it because I love and care about her.  HA!  I see what her version of forever is, I guess It's good I didn't hold my breath!