Parenting classes?

[JayApril]

Has anyone thought about inviting their BPDx to parenting classes?

[ennie]

Oh, the places we've been! (to paraphrase Dr. Suess). 

the BPD mom of my SDs has been to several sets of parenting classes.  The first were provided locally in our small town.  She got a lot out of them--primarily language to complain about everything DH does however helpful he is; they attended one class together and she spent the class's time explaining how horrible he is in front of him.

In a later custody litigation, the custody evaluator (who required court-ordered therapy for BPD mom and made clear that she is emotionally unstable and meets most of the DSM criteria for BPD) recommended a different type of co-parenting classes for high conflict situations.  It was highly structured, with forms parents fill out to communicate in a clear and specific format.  This seemed promising, but the counselor did not use the format at all and spent the first 4 months believing BPD mom's stories, and was unwilling to read the custody eval or any other information.  This was sort of a disaster, as she was convinced DH and I were totally in control and BPD mom just had mild PTSD, and was a sweet and innocent, albeit incapable, mom. 

By the end of the sessions, 6 or 8 months later, the T cottoned on to BPD's fabrications and did her best at that point to hold BPD mom to some version of the facts, at which point BPD mom screamed at her in each session until the sessions were over. 

I was also asked to attend, and did attend the first few months, leaving each session totally demoralized.  We had finally got the evaluator and others to understand what was happening, that we were wiling to work with BPD mom and to accept her BPD, but that it was important that folks understand her alienation and constant threats of violence or public shaming of us, her constant threats to the kids, and the stress this put on the whole family.  Instead of looking at any information, this person just reinforced and supported the dynamic of BPD mom lying and getting folks to think we were the problem.  I remember talking to the co-parenting counselor about BPD mom threatening to kill me and attacking me physically, and me being able to protect myself by telling her she was okay with me, that I loved her even at that moment, and seeing BPD mom melt into tears and expressing gratitude for me.  I knew BPD mom a little before she broke up with DH, so that feeling was genuine. 

The counselor said, "There is no way you could feel that way and be threatened.  So either you are lying about what happened, or lying about how you felt, and I think you are lying about what happened.  I do not think it is possible that she did that to you."  It was terribly painful to see her discount and put down the goodness of myself and DH and our best struggles to come to terms with the BPD of this important person in the kids' lives. 

I would say that normal class format co-parenting classes probably are not the best format for many BPD people, as there is no assistance with placing their own behavior in the context of the class, so they will mostly project.  On the other hand, my experience is that BPD mom is a better parent when she is trying to pretend she is doing things "right," even if it is just for show.  So it might be good to show the BPD parent what standards she is supposed to meet.

I think the high-conflict format, one on one for ten sessions with VERY structured format, would probably be good, though you really have to get the right person if it is one-on-one, as we learned.  I think our sessions could have been helpful if the counselor believed us and focused more on helping BPD mom to see us as a supportive resource, and if she had focused on getting everyone to use the recommended very simple forms.  A lot of BPD mom's problems with communication (other than that she does not want to do it) are that she has very poor executive function and is overwhelmed and intimidated by having to put things in writing and stay on point.  The forms we were offered for typical parenting issue were simplified so that the parent could write one sentence, circle some numbers and issues, and communicate something important with little effort.  I think that could have been very good for her, and recommend that you look into that sort of structure.

[JayApril]

Oh, the places we've been! (to paraphrase Dr. Suess). 

the BPD mom of my SDs has been to several sets of parenting classes.  The first were provided locally in our small town.  She got a lot out of them--primarily language to complain about everything DH does however helpful he is; they attended one class together and she spent the class's time explaining how horrible he is in front of him.

In a later custody litigation, the custody evaluator (who required court-ordered therapy for BPD mom and made clear that she is emotionally unstable and meets most of the DSM criteria for BPD) recommended a different type of co-parenting classes for high conflict situations.  It was highly structured, with forms parents fill out to communicate in a clear and specific format.  This seemed promising, but the counselor did not use the format at all and spent the first 4 months believing BPD mom's stories, and was unwilling to read the custody eval or any other information.  This was sort of a disaster, as she was convinced DH and I were totally in control and BPD mom just had mild PTSD, and was a sweet and innocent, albeit incapable, mom. 

By the end of the sessions, 6 or 8 months later, the T cottoned on to BPD's fabrications and did her best at that point to hold BPD mom to some version of the facts, at which point BPD mom screamed at her in each session until the sessions were over. 

I was also asked to attend, and did attend the first few months, leaving each session totally demoralized.  We had finally got the evaluator and others to understand what was happening, that we were wiling to work with BPD mom and to accept her BPD, but that it was important that folks understand her alienation and constant threats of violence or public shaming of us, her constant threats to the kids, and the stress this put on the whole family.  Instead of looking at any information, this person just reinforced and supported the dynamic of BPD mom lying and getting folks to think we were the problem.  I remember talking to the co-parenting counselor about BPD mom threatening to kill me and attacking me physically, and me being able to protect myself by telling her she was okay with me, that I loved her even at that moment, and seeing BPD mom melt into tears and expressing gratitude for me.  I knew BPD mom a little before she broke up with DH, so that feeling was genuine. 

The counselor said, "There is no way you could feel that way and be threatened.  So either you are lying about what happened, or lying about how you felt, and I think you are lying about what happened.  I do not think it is possible that she did that to you."  It was terribly painful to see her discount and put down the goodness of myself and DH and our best struggles to come to terms with the BPD of this important person in the kids' lives. 

I would say that normal class format co-parenting classes probably are not the best format for many BPD people, as there is no assistance with placing their own behavior in the context of the class, so they will mostly project.  On the other hand, my experience is that BPD mom is a better parent when she is trying to pretend she is doing things "right," even if it is just for show.  So it might be good to show the BPD parent what standards she is supposed to meet.

I think the high-conflict format, one on one for ten sessions with VERY structured format, would probably be good, though you really have to get the right person if it is one-on-one, as we learned.  I think our sessions could have been helpful if the counselor believed us and focused more on helping BPD mom to see us as a supportive resource, and if she had focused on getting everyone to use the recommended very simple forms.  A lot of BPD mom's problems with communication (other than that she does not want to do it) are that she has very poor executive function and is overwhelmed and intimidated by having to put things in writing and stay on point.  The forms we were offered for typical parenting issue were simplified so that the parent could write one sentence, circle some numbers and issues, and communicate something important with little effort.  I think that could have been very good for her, and recommend that you look into that sort of structure.

Wow, I am sorry you had to go though that. It must have been tough to be lied on like that. I extended an invite to my BPDx just because,  know he will not take me up on it. It is more of just proof to court that he is unwilling to parent. But, I was curious to see what good it actually does. I have taken a parenting class at my church and found t helpful.

[ennie]

Yes, I think parenting classes are good for the non parents, as it helps to structure your engagement with the other person.  But I think it is important to be aware of a parallel parenting model, because it is often not helpful to the kids to use the "co-parenting" model on which most co-parenting classes are based.  But it sounds like you are just talking about parenting classes; I thought you were talking about co-parenting classes.

I find the Love and Logic approach to parenting classes to be really helpful.  You can find their resources online.  I like this approach because it encourages parents to set boundaries with empathy and love, without animosity, which is what is often lacking for kids with a BPD parent.