How can I make the future as bright as possible?

[Manowar]

Hello everyone,

I discovered this site after another fight last night with my SO (24/f). For sometime we had discussed back and forth about her maybe having BPD. Our story is like so many others - we fell in love quickly and hard. As our relationship grew, the ups and downs became more drastic and dramatic. We became very distant two years ago and both worked very hard to work on our communication and resolve relationship issues that had been driving us apart. Now we're a month from a wedding, and I've missed so many signs. I should have known this was BPD and started looking for help long ago. I'm here now and want to learn. I want to help. I want her to be happy with herself, me, and our life together. I want to be happy (I know this may sound selfish). I want our future family to be happy.

So first step, here we go... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ceruleanblue]

Welcome!

The lessons on the right, can be lots of help to you. Is your fiancé open to getting help? My husband is now it DBT therapy, and I still pinch myself some days because I'd given up on him ever accepting and getting help. I still don't think he psychiatrist knows just how severe he is because BPDh is very good at downplaying and he is very functional when he wants to be.

Also, it isn't your job to make her happy, only she can do that. That is the trap I fell into with BPDh. I thought if I did this, or said that, or made huge sacrifices(that I shouldn't have had to make, but he implied it would make him happy), and none of it ever made a dent. His happiness has to come from HIM, and while I always knew that, I'd get sucked into it. Just as we can't expect them to contribute a lot emotionally, and we may always be the emotional caretaker, unless they really, really change, and learn to resist the traits of BPD.

It's a journey, and it takes a lot of trial and error. It sounds like you already have radically accepted her for who and what she is. To us nons, the diagnosis seems important, and I still think it can be as far as getting them help, but they have to want the help.

Be easy on yourself too. Living with BPD means some self care, because it can really wear you out. Make sure you meet your own needs too.

[Manowar]

Welcome!

The lessons on the right, can be lots of help to you. Is your fiancé open to getting help? My husband is now it DBT therapy, and I still pinch myself some days because I'd given up on him ever accepting and getting help. I still don't think he psychiatrist knows just how severe he is because BPDh is very good at downplaying and he is very functional when he wants to be.

Also, it isn't your job to make her happy, only she can do that. That is the trap I fell into with BPDh. I thought if I did this, or said that, or made huge sacrifices(that I shouldn't have had to make, but he implied it would make him happy), and none of it ever made a dent. His happiness has to come from HIM, and while I always knew that, I'd get sucked into it. Just as we can't expect them to contribute a lot emotionally, and we may always be the emotional caretaker, unless they really, really change, and learn to resist the traits of BPD.

It's a journey, and it takes a lot of trial and error. It sounds like you already have radically accepted her for who and what she is. To us nons, the diagnosis seems important, and I still think it can be as far as getting them help, but they have to want the help.

Be easy on yourself too. Living with BPD means some self care, because it can really wear you out. Make sure you meet your own needs too.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I know I was vague to start, but I can go into a little more detail. Yes, she is willing to do whatever it takes to feel "normal". She's hyper aware that she is different, and she's always felt this way. I've known since day one that she was always... .for lack of better words - emotional, defensive, touchy, and quick to anger. It comes in waves, we'll go a couple of weeks and everything will be great... .then we'll have a bad week. I accept my responsibility in all of it - I've fostered her codependent mentality and perhaps even pushed it. I have had my own issues with mental health (Depression that saw me drop out of college for  a year to work through it) but I've always been a "by the bootstraps" kind of guy. I get hurt/defensive when she is triggered, which causes the fights to spiral out of control. I need to learn how to suppress that so I can help her work through her feelings better, without sacrificing too much of myself. I know it's a long road ahead, but I'm marrying her because I plan on being there every step of the way.

I've started in on the lessons to the right, and reading what little I have so far has made me feel better. As long as I can learn how to appropriately and responsibly respond to situations, I know that things will get better.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi Manowar, 

Welcome aboard. You have come to a great place for support and understanding. 

The motto of the Staying board is "before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse." Prior to learning about BPD, I will admit that I contributed greatly to the dysfunction of my relationship. BPD behaviors can be baffling at times and very frustrating. I exacerbated many unnecessary arguments over my person with BPD's (pwBPD) erratic behavior.  Learning about the characteristics of BPD has helped me cope with the behavior and understand the origin of the majority of the behavior has nothing to do with me. Have you had a chance to read about common BPD behavior?

You mentioned that you get hurt/defensive of your pwBPD's behavior. What specific behavior are you having a hard time coping with?

[Fian]

First off, it is perfectly reasonable to want to enter a marriage that you believe will make you happy - and to refuse to get married if you believe that marriage won't make you happy.  As others have pointed out, you can't make your happiness dependent upon your spouse, but on the other hand that doesn't mean you should enter a bad situation either.

Now about marriage.  You are on this board because you want to save your relationship with your soon-to-be spouse.  However, this is also a point where you can walk away without breaking most moral codes.  While a certain amount of nervousness before marriage is natural, choosing to marry a person with BPD is going to add to the pre-marriage jitters, and you truly have to decide if you are prepared to live with BPD for the rest of your life.  One other option to consider is delaying the marriage until you are sure, although I understand that calling off a marriage 1 month before is difficult to do.

Disclaimer: I am not saying you shouldn't marry this person.  I am just encouraging you to think things through and make sure that is what you want.

One final thought.  It sounds like maybe you are looking at marriage to save you too.  That alone you just can't make it.  If that is the case, I think many on this board would counsel you to fix yourself first, and then look at marriage.  Many who enter marriage looking to be fixed, choose a person that they would not marry otherwise, just so that they could be married and have severe issues later on.

[Manowar]

Learning about the characteristics of BPD has helped me cope with the behavior and understand the origin of the majority of the behavior has nothing to do with me. Have you had a chance to read about common BPD behavior?

You mentioned that you get hurt/defensive of your pwBPD's behavior. What specific behavior are you having a hard time coping with?

Thank you EaglesJuju. I think you hit the nail on the head by calling the behaviors "baffling". I get very confused and surprised at how dramatically thing escalate between us. A conversation can turn into a fight that goes on for hours very quickly, especially if it's on a sensitive topic. Perhaps the best way to explain this is with an anecdote.

We were discussing chores and chore responsibilities. I suggested some changes in work distribution, which was well received. I had very carefully had pre-selected my words so that she would know I appreciated everything she does, and she does a great job, but I would like some help with the laundry being put away. She made the comment akin to "Well I can't do it all myself, I put away 2 baskets of it and Its just too much for me. I get no help with it and its too much because you didn't help".

Now I should of kept my calm, but I retorted with "well I did x, y, z, a, b, and c today, and I didn't want to or ask for help. Sometimes we just do what we have to do so it gets done". This was her trigger. It wasn't my intention to make her feel bad or unappreciated, but within 5 seconds of uttering this sentence, I knew I had messed up - badly.

I spent the next 2 hours listening to a combination of "I'm useless and a waste of space" to "I'm never asking you for anything ever again". We have since resolved this issue, she apologized to me the following morning. She will always apologizes when she has an episode (I guess that's what you call it). What I've realized from reading thus far, is I should of deflected that comment and realized it was simply her being defensive and trying to justify her feelings. I take things personally because I have a lot of pride. I take pride in my work, my life, my friends, and her. I know that I have some things to change in myself in how I handle these situations in the future.

So getting back to your questions Eagles, I guess the summation of the problem is that I don't know enough of the symptoms. Projection and Splitting are the two big keys that I deal with. I can understand the anxiety and I know I am empathetic enough to help her through that.  

[EaglesJuju]

We were discussing chores and chore responsibilities. I suggested some changes in work distribution, which was well received. I had very carefully had pre-selected my words so that she would know I appreciated everything she does, and she does a great job, but I would like some help with the laundry being put away. She made the comment akin to "Well I can't do it all myself, I put away 2 baskets of it and Its just too much for me. I get no help with it and its too much because you didn't help".

Communication techniques really help with situations like this. PwBPD tend to have very low self-esteem and feelings of worthlessness/hopelessness. Criticism is usually not well received. Learning about validation really helps with hypersensitivity to criticism.

I am a very tidy person by nature and it drives me bananas when my bf is messy. In the past, I usually did not say anything and picked up his dirty clothes or cleaned up his messes. I tended to say nothing and repress things that I was annoyed with, which typically ended up with me getting frustrated and snapping at him. I tend to pick and choose my battles with my bf. The other times I let things roll off my shoulders. For me, messiness is very annoying and I chose to address the issue.

To rectify the messiness, I use a combination of communication techniques and a bit of humor to discuss the problem. Communication techniques are universally helpful. I have used them with non-disordered people as well with great success.

Take a look at these two articles. They have immensely helped me.

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

Projection and splitting can be really tough to deal with. Both are maladaptive coping mechanisms devised to thwart negative emotions that they associate themselves with.

Learning to radically accept or not taking things personal does take time. For me it is tough when my bf says something that affects my own issues. Those times I truly struggle with radically accepting the disorder is causing this behavior.  The other times his projection is completely outlandish and illogical. I just shrug it off.

[Manowar]

First off, it is perfectly reasonable to want to enter a marriage that you believe will make you happy - and to refuse to get married if you believe that marriage won't make you happy.  As others have pointed out, you can't make your happiness dependent upon your spouse, but on the other hand that doesn't mean you should enter a bad situation either.

Now about marriage.  You are on this board because you want to save your relationship with your soon-to-be spouse.  However, this is also a point where you can walk away without breaking most moral codes.  While a certain amount of nervousness before marriage is natural, choosing to marry a person with BPD is going to add to the pre-marriage jitters, and you truly have to decide if you are prepared to live with BPD for the rest of your life.  One other option to consider is delaying the marriage until you are sure, although I understand that calling off a marriage 1 month before is difficult to do.

Disclaimer: I am not saying you shouldn't marry this person.  I am just encouraging you to think things through and make sure that is what you want.

One final thought.  It sounds like maybe you are looking at marriage to save you too.  That alone you just can't make it.  If that is the case, I think many on this board would counsel you to fix yourself first, and then look at marriage.  Many who enter marriage looking to be fixed, choose a person that they would not marry otherwise, just so that they could be married and have severe issues later on.

Thank you Fian. This is incredibly hard for me to discuss, obviously, but I'll take a stab at it. The thoughts have entered my mind before, and continue to, and likely always will of "am I strong enough to handle this?". When we first started dating, everything was easy. Of course, every relationship, good or bad, has problems. Our highs and lows just seem to be more dramatic than normal.

I don't follow the sunk-cost fallacy, I know I could walk away at any point in time. She has been by my side and helped me through rough patches, and I know that she will continue to do so. Her BPD has always been a shadow over our relationship - I've come this far with it, and I want to spend the rest of my life with her, even in that shadow. The question you raised is certainly fair. Call it being naive or a hopeless romantic, but when I look into her eyes first thing in the morning, or I hold her when she's been crying, or we watch a sunset at the beach, that's what I want in my life. No matter the cost. She was put on this Earth for me.

I don't look at marriage as a cure. It's just another step in our lives. The only thing she and I can do, or I myself, is to improve our communication, understanding, and resiliency to stay the course. I know that if I become more understanding, more empathetic, and stop doing the "wrong" things I can impact both of our lives for the better.

[Fian]

First off, it is perfectly reasonable to want to enter a marriage that you believe will make you happy - and to refuse to get married if you believe that marriage won't make you happy.  As others have pointed out, you can't make your happiness dependent upon your spouse, but on the other hand that doesn't mean you should enter a bad situation either.

Now about marriage.  You are on this board because you want to save your relationship with your soon-to-be spouse.  However, this is also a point where you can walk away without breaking most moral codes.  While a certain amount of nervousness before marriage is natural, choosing to marry a person with BPD is going to add to the pre-marriage jitters, and you truly have to decide if you are prepared to live with BPD for the rest of your life.  One other option to consider is delaying the marriage until you are sure, although I understand that calling off a marriage 1 month before is difficult to do.

Disclaimer: I am not saying you shouldn't marry this person.  I am just encouraging you to think things through and make sure that is what you want.

One final thought.  It sounds like maybe you are looking at marriage to save you too.  That alone you just can't make it.  If that is the case, I think many on this board would counsel you to fix yourself first, and then look at marriage.  Many who enter marriage looking to be fixed, choose a person that they would not marry otherwise, just so that they could be married and have severe issues later on.

Thank you Fian. This is incredibly hard for me to discuss, obviously, but I'll take a stab at it. The thoughts have entered my mind before, and continue to, and likely always will of "am I strong enough to handle this?". When we first started dating, everything was easy. Of course, every relationship, good or bad, has problems. Our highs and lows just seem to be more dramatic than normal.

I don't follow the sunk-cost fallacy, I know I could walk away at any point in time. She has been by my side and helped me through rough patches, and I know that she will continue to do so. Her BPD has always been a shadow over our relationship - I've come this far with it, and I want to spend the rest of my life with her, even in that shadow. The question you raised is certianly fair. Call it being niave or a hopeless romantic, but when I look into her eyes first thing in the morning, or I hold her when she's been crying, or we watch a sunset at the beach, that's what I want in my life. No matter the cost. She was put on this Earth for me.

I don't look at marriage as a cure. It's just another step in our lives. The only thing she and I can do, or I myself, is to improve our communication, understanding, and resiliency to stay the course. I know that if I become more understand, more empathetic, and stop doing the "wrong" things I can impact both of our lives for the better.

You do sound like a hopeless romantic.  (:  The only additional caution I would give you is to consider how long you have been in the relationship.  Relationships start off with euphoria but that part doesn't last.  If you haven't been in the relationship long, or you are seeing a downward to trend after the euphoric part of the relationship wanes, you should take those as red flags.

Anyway, I have to commend you for seeing her BPD and still wanting to marry her.  For myself, I think I would have had second thoughts if I knew my wife was BPD before we got married.

[Manowar]

You do sound like a hopeless romantic.  (:  The only additional caution I would give you is to consider how long you have been in the relationship.  Relationships start off with euphoria but that part doesn't last.  If you haven't been in the relationship long, or you are seeing a downward to trend after the euphoric part of the relationship wanes, you should take those as red flags.

Anyway, I have to commend you for seeing her BPD and still wanting to marry her.  For myself, I think I would have had second thoughts if I knew my wife was BPD before we got married.

We've been together 5 difficult years. 1.5 years of long distance, both of us graduating and me starting a new career, big financial problems and struggling with debt, moving 5 times, friendships that come and go, family problems, deaths in the family. We've seen a long of things for even 5 years, but we've taken them all in stride and continued growing. We could be eating ramen for dinner and still planning our first trip to Paris (Brie and Wine, what's not to love?). That how I know I want to spend the rest of my life with her.

She has BPD, but it's a part of who she is. No matter the challenges I know that every part of her I still, and always will, love.

[Manowar]

Take a look at these two articles. They have immensely helped me.

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

Thank you for the references. I lack understanding, and always need prime examples. I think pretty quickly on my feet - I think the more I read and engross myself with techniques, the easier I think situations like Laundrygate2015 can be avoided.

[Wrongturn1]

Welcome, Manowar!  Good discussion on this thread, and helpful insights from Fian.

One thing to consider is that BPD symptoms typically increase after a couple gets married.  In fact, I don't think I ever recall seeing someone say, "my spouse's BPD got a lot better after our wedding."  As an example, search for some of the recent threads by Maxsterling where he describes his wife's suicide attempt and subsequent hospitalization.

[Stalwart]

Manofwar:

Just wanted to stop by, give you a welcome and maybe reflect a bit. You couldn't be better on making your future brighter are and heading down a path to possibilities than you are.

On a positive note Manofwar you really do have a lot going for you in being successful in your relationship that you’ve evidently set your mind to. You have a good basic awareness going into it and more importantly, so does your spouse both have awareness and acceptance. I don’t know if you can grasp just how significant that is. For her it’s vital to moving forward in a better direction and for you it’s paramount to finding those possibilities.

You seem to be a person for a challenge and that’s also positive. There’s a lot to learn if you want to better your situation and prospects and that’s really, really possible to do. You can’t change her but by learning and growing yourself you can certainly change the dynamics of the rougher edges of your relationship difficulties when she’s experiencing problems. That changes everything and over time can moderate a situation to harmony and actually become pleasant if not for fleeting time periods. For any relationship to flourish there has to be attentiveness and work. Particularly when the relationship is affected by this disorder. But you seem up to the task.

If I could reflect with the one thing I found most important it was to learn and keep on learning everything I could and still can. In order to really depict the difficult times your almost wife has and why, takes a lot of understanding and learning about the development of the disorder and just how it actually affects your wife - specifically with her nuances and perhaps comorbidities. Everyone is different who has this disorder and so are we as supporters of our own relationships.

You’ve already been advised about the tools and they are a mandatory set to throw into your box. You’ve also recognized he need to practice to a point of ensuring you aren’t using them in a condescending or fake-like manner. That’s awesome. It becomes a well-developed second nature once you put some time and distance together with it. They really work well but only with sincerity and honestly attached to them. There’s a lot of great reading material available but if I might suggest don’t make your learning experience hers. It’s been my experience that although my wife knows I’ve been dedicated to researching this for three years she doesn’t want to have to live with her challenges as her primary focus point all the time and I can so understand that.

I learn to develop real understanding and empathy and search for better opportunities to improve myself as a person in our relationship and she does her therapy. We both have our own jobs.

I know you’re young and just getting at it with the financial strains of that but finding opportunities to introduce her to both a formal diagnosis and therapy that’s good and specifically geared to BPD is everything for her though. It should be on your necessary list of things to do and strive for. Therapy if it’s accepted and she likes her therapist to a point where she can be open and honest with them is life saving for my wife. I’ve already studies the DBT course and workbooks so I’ve got a good awareness of it so I just smile when I hear my wife use new words like mindfulness and wise-mind in normal conversations. Hey you look for hope where you can find it and you’ll find it everywhere around you if you strive to create it.

I’ll leave you for now, I have a tendency to get too lengthy but I hope you find this place good for you. There are great people here with a lot of different experiences to draw from. Like you, most of us are in this together. So don’t be afraid to ask questions or just vent frustrations. There just can’t be any wrong questions when you’re trying sort through the intricacies of this disorder.

Best of luck my friend. You’ve got a great head start and attitude.

[Jessica84]

Stalwart - you are a bright ray of sunshine in any thread you post in. It is so refreshing to see in a forum like this. BPD has been a nightmare - one of the most frustrating, exhausting, confusing, painful, difficult things I've ever experienced. So your words of hope and encouragement are really nice to see.

Acceptance of this disorder was the hardest thing for me. I went from feeling relieved to hopeful to mourning when I first started learning about it. I thought... .How hard could it be to be more empathetic or frame things in a way that kept things from escalating? It all looked so easy on paper, but once I started practicing I found it a very hard skill to master. I kept getting it wrong, and a good or healthy relationship with him didn't seem possible. It looked so hopeless.

One thing to keep in mind is this is a spectrum disorder. Some pwBPD are high-functioning or low-functioning or have BPD combined with other disorders. This is where I got some hope back, figuring out where my uBPDbf was on the scale and deciding he was worth it to keep trying. Plenty of fumbles and missteps later, I can say that things have improved. Not significantly, but better over time. The degree of difficulty in maintaining a relationship like this is going to be different with everyone. That is up to you to decide, Manofwar. Best of luck to you!

[Stalwart]

Hey Jessica - Thanks _  

I love this: "figuring out where my uBPDbf was on the scale and deciding he was worth it to keep trying... ."

Funny how we're all in this dance together with our partners and how often we forget to acknowledge our own roles in that dance. Seems to me that you were 'so worth' that as well.

It was a pleasure to read your post and I hope that Manofwar takes heart from it, simply because it's there to take from it.  

[Manowar]

Manofwar:

Best of luck my friend. You’ve got a great head start and attitude.

Thank you so much Stalwart. Your words mean a lot to mean. Although I'm resilient in my determination to improve myself, I know that moving forward, this is a joint effort. Her lack of medical insurance has been a large hindrance of making any progress in that regard. When we are married, she will be able to be on my medical insurance and we'll move forward with whatever therapy/medical treatments she is comfortable with to try and make an impact. I am thankful that there is a spectrum, because she would fall in the high functioning category.

There is hope. All I can do is try to be the best husband I can to her.

[Stalwart]

"There is hope. All I can do is try to be the best husband I can to her."

Sounds to me like you already are my friend.

I'm glad there are opportunities for her therapy in the future. I sure hope she's open to it at the time. It is really important to find the right people that are experienced specifically with BPD and do it well.

She's in really good hands and I'm glad for both of you that you're going forward together. You're an exceptional person and you must find her to be one as well. 

[an0ught]

Hi Manowar,

make as bright as possible?

As EaglesJuju explained - stop making it worse has priority. Trying to control the outcome - brightness - is a recipe for disaster. It is much better to control ourselves and accept the outcome. Living with a pwBPD means having to deal not only the drama that life throws at us but also other manufactured drama. It is very easy to try to sooth pain away or fix a momentary problem with overspending etc... .None of that works and only erodes the relationship. Providing structure and avoiding being distracted goes a long way to protect the foundation that allows us thrive.

To experience also bright days accept partner upsets, commit to process and not to outcome.