2nd MC session coming up.

[Hmcbart]

We have our 2nd MC session coming up in 2 days. I want to bring up something from last year but I'm afraid to say anything because it will be conceived as not letting go of the past. This is something I have often said to her and she has said it to me.

Should I bring it up if it's something that still bothers me or should I keep quiet? That's my question.

I am pretty sure she will use it against me later or as a justification for how she feels but it's something that has been weighing on me since last August. I'm usually pretty good and forgetting things that she's done and moving forward but I just can't shake it from my mind. I feel like tree was no closure and its and open wound that won't go away.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

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[formflier]

 

What good will come of bringing it up?

What can she do about it now?


Would you appreciate it ... .like it... .if she brought up something from a year ago that still bothered her?  What if you remembered it differently?

FF

[Hmcbart]

I guess nothing good would come of it now. It's just something that eats at me when she is planning to go back to Texas to visit relatives. More my fear than anything else.

What can she do about it now? Other than reassure me that it won't happen again, that's really all.

I agree that Im not happy when she brings up things from the past. And our memories of events are always different.

[married21years]

anything is fair game if it causes you distress

[vortex of confusion]

I guess nothing good would come of it now. It's just something that eats at me when she is planning to go back to Texas to visit relatives. More my fear than anything else.

What can she do about it now? Other than reassure me that it won't happen again, that's really all.

If she reassured you that it won't happen again, would you believe her? Or would you think that she is lying to you just to put you at ease?

I think it really depends on the nature of the offense. If it is something like, "you forgot to take out the trash", then let it go. However, if it is something that involves infidelity, then yeah, I think it is okay to bring it up. I have been doing a lot of reading about that and one of the things that is often done to the person that was screwed around on is that it is never really dealt with. As a result, it keeps coming up over and over and over again. If it was something that traumatized you, then you are going to have to find a way to deal with, with or without bringing it up in MC. I have learned the hard way that there are some things that just don't go away until you deal with them.

[formflier]

 

OK... .I'm curious... .and worried I gave bad advice... .

Let's hear it... .the story or question... .

My gut says we need to figure out the principle of the matter to be discussed... .and discuss that... .rather than a specific... .you did this or that.

So... .principle:  I would like to discuss and make plans 2 weeks ahead of time so there are no surprises... .don't expect last minute changes... .etc etc.

So... .the principle would be that "plans matter"... .or   "plans don't matter"... .the goal is to get you both on same page.

that keeps it current... .avoids on xx date... .this happened... .no it didn't... .yes it did (no productivity there)


FF

[Sunfl0wer]

If it is something that is preventing you from participation, I'd say then that you should state that you feel compelled to discuss something, in order to fully participate.

If you feel you can put it aside for now, then rest assured, issues that were there in the beginning and are unresolved, likely will resurface in some shape or form.

If however, you are mixed, it is nagging at you, but not too distracting, see if you can either bring it up at a later time, or bring it up in a private session with the MC.

It sounds like whatever it is that bothers you is actually an issue of trust?  I imagine that the issue of trust will come up naturally and you will have opportunity to express yourself at some point in this regard.

Trust is a huge issue in any r/s.  You need to trust this MC, her ability to discern, hear and respond to the both of you.  If you feel uncertain on whether or not to trust this MC, know that the r/s and interactions with the MC are quite important to the whole process and a big part of the therapeutic process.  Being able to express, trust, be heard and work with the MC is practice for all of your relationships. The MC presumably is not disordered and is typically aware to be interacting with you in a way that helps facilitate your r/s skills and uses these opportunities to explore and process issues further.  So if you are having an issue with "the process," always voice this!

[Hmcbart]

Ok, here is my thought. I wrote it out as if I was speaking to her directly. The back story is that she had a friend in the hospital dying of liver failure. She dated the guy years before I met her 20+ years ago and I didn't think it was a big deal. It was the part where she changed the story to sound like the friend was a girl and texted her sister say she did that on purpose. She then claimed to be with her sister helping another friend of there's pack to move. The guy she was texting was not the guy in the hospital but another friend.

I was really hurt last year when you lied to me about everything that was going on while you were in Texas. It really bothered me that you would ignore my calls and texts for 2 days but call another guy at 3:00 am to let him know you got home safely. It hurt me even more when you did finally contact me, you treated me badly and were angry at me for being concerned that I hadn't heard from you for two days. I was very upset when I found out the truth how you didn't really lie but you just didn't tell the whole truth. The way you had to text your sister to find out if I hand been trying to find you the night before when you were out until 3:00 am. How you purposely mislead me and my family and told your sister you were doing it. I was upset even more that you were texting another guy about going to a concert when you came back to Texas for your high school reunion. You did all of this and it felt like you didn't think about my feelings at all. It concerns me that you would delete all your texts and it makes me feel like you are hiding something from me. I wouldn't feel this way if I hadn't read all of this on hot texts while fixing your phone. It bothered me that when I confronted you about it after I learned the truth, you were very remorseful and sorry and even admitted to lying. The very next day when I was still upset and had the right to be, you got mad at me for being upset and told me that you didn't do anything that I hadn't done before.

I never lied to you and then had to send texts to my sister to make sure I wasn't caught. I never stayed out until 3:00 am and then called another women to let her know I made it home safely to alleviate her concerns all while ignoring my wife's phone calls and texts for two days. I didn't continue to text another women to set up a time to meet when I was coming back to the area.

I felt like you were seeking emotional support from another man and never giving me the chance to be there for you. I feel like you cheated on me and then made me feel guilty for being upset.

I feel that I have every right to be worried when you go back to Texas again this summer because of what happened last year.

Sorry it's so long. She told me then that she didn't cheat on me but I can't get it out of my head. Maybe I just never got closure after I found out about everything.

[formflier]

 

My first reaction is to leave that alone... .for a while.

I'm not saying forever... .

You guys have to start communicating... .I see this blowing that up... .right now.

Anyone with other thoughts?

FF

[vortex of confusion]

My question is to ask whether or not there will be another MC session before the trip to Texas. I think something should be discussed before the trip. If the trip isn't until much later in the summer, then maybe wait until it is closer to time to leave.

I think this should be brought up BEFORE she leaves on her trip. If she engaged in questionable behavior and completely dismissed any and all of the concerns and even went so far as to get mad about being questioned, then I think it should be brought up. Something like this is likely to eat away at the relationship. Even if there is no resolution, I find that bringing things up is helpful to me. Yes, it is difficult for my husband to hear some things. The truth is that there will likely NEVER be a good time for him to hear that he isn't perfect. 

[Hmcbart]

The session this Thursday is the next one. After that they will probably be gone. I took my vacation to go with my oldest son to Boy Scout camp the last week if this month. My oldest told me the other day that they were planning to go back after camp.

She told me she stopped planning trips with me in mind because of work and she knows I feel guilty because I can't go with them and I do feel this way. I don't like the fact that I get no say in the planning and length of time they will be gone. Last year it kept getting extended by a week every tin I talked to her. When I offered to fly in and drive back with them she got upset with me about something.

I came anyway. The drive back she had gotten a text while we were in the car and I jokingly made a comment about someone texting her. She always asks me who's texting me when I get a text so I didn't think much of it. She gave me an evil look and told me it was none of my business and she doesn't ask me who I'm texting every time I get one. I was a little taken back by the comment and that's really when I first started to wonder what had actually happened.

[Hmcbart]

My first reaction is to leave that alone... .for a while.

I'm not saying forever... .

You guys have to start communicating... .I see this blowing that up... .right now.

Anyone with other thoughts?

FF

I am afraid of how badly it will eat at me while they are gone. She swears that I'm making way too much out of nothing and as far as I know she has never been unfaithful. Something just never quite sat right with it. The last time she mentioned going back I brought up my concerns. She turned around and canceled her trip then told her family it was because I didn't want her to go.

I am ok with her going I just don't want a repeat of last year. And I also want to have a voice in how long my boys will be gone for the summer and I won't get to spend any time with them.

[Sunfl0wer]

The session this Thursday is the next one. After that they will probably be gone. I took my vacation to go with my oldest son to Boy Scout camp the last week if this month. My oldest told me the other day that they were planning to go back after camp.

She told me she stopped planning trips with me in mind because of work and she knows I feel guilty because I can't go with them and I do feel this way. I don't like the fact that I get no say in the planning and length of time they will be gone. Last year it kept getting extended by a week every tin I talked to her. When I offered to fly in and drive back with them she got upset with me about something.

I came anyway. The drive back she had gotten a text while we were in the car and I jokingly made a comment about someone texting her. She always asks me who's texting me when I get a text so I didn't think much of it. She gave me an evil look and told me it was none of my business and she doesn't ask me who I'm texting every time I get one. I was a little taken back by the comment and that's really when I first started to wonder what had actually happened.

Based on this, I think you should put it on the table, let MC shut it down if she feels need to... .if enough rapport has not been est ... .etc.  

Then I wonder if MC will schedule you both solo sessions?  Usually this happens.  That MC also wants a solo with each of you, following initial joint session.  If so, while she is gone would be a perfect time for your solo.

[Hmcbart]

This will be our 2nd session. The first was about 4 weeks ago. Scheduling conflicts with my wife's volunteer work. She's a stay at home mom but volunteers at the school all the time. Schools out now but she's still working on PTO stuff. I lost the last 2 anniversaries and last valentines to the dam PTO.

[vortex of confusion]

I am afraid of how badly it will eat at me while they are gone. She swears that I'm making way too much out of nothing and as far as I know she has never been unfaithful. Something just never quite sat right with it. The last time she mentioned going back I brought up my concerns. She turned around and canceled her trip then told her family it was because I didn't want her to go.

Her saying that you are making way too much out of nothing is gaslighting in my opinion. Something didn't sit right with you and she is trying to tell you that you are wrong. And, canceling the trip and blaming it on you is a manipulation tactic in my opinion. It is setting up a scenario where you are afraid to say anything. If you say anything, then she will cancel the trip and it will be your fault and you will look like the controlling jerk that doesn't want his wife to go on a trip.

I am ok with her going I just don't want a repeat of last year. And I also want to have a voice in how long my boys will be gone for the summer and I won't get to spend any time with them.

If she is on a trip with the kids, I think it is reasonable to want to know how the kids are doing. Do the kids have a way of contacting you without having to go through her? When they are gone, do you get to Skype with them or anything like that?

[Hmcbart]

I'm completely torn with everything. I have my own therapy appointment in the morning. I was going to speak with him about this as well.

I am afraid if I do end up bringing it up she will use that as a reason to black me out again. She could cancel the trip and and then make things miserable for me and the boys. She's good at that. Usually she uses them as the excuse to stay longer. She will say, if we were home, you will just be gone for work and the kids will get bored. They can swim in the pool in Texas and visit with their cousins, etc etc.

I already hear that one coming. If I tell her no or limit her to two weeks, she will dysregulate and bring out the black paint.

Hey V, the cliff I was talking about earlier, right now I want to push! Or jump.

[Hmcbart]

I am afraid of how badly it will eat at me while they are gone. She swears that I'm making way too much out of nothing and as far as I know she has never been unfaithful. Something just never quite sat right with it. The last time she mentioned going back I brought up my concerns. She turned around and canceled her trip then told her family it was because I didn't want her to go.

Her saying that you are making way too much out of nothing is gaslighting in my opinion. Something didn't sit right with you and she is trying to tell you that you are wrong. And, canceling the trip and blaming it on you is a manipulation tactic in my opinion. It is setting up a scenario where you are afraid to say anything. If you say anything, then she will cancel the trip and it will be your fault and you will look like the controlling jerk that doesn't want his wife to go on a trip.

I am ok with her going I just don't want a repeat of last year. And I also want to have a voice in how long my boys will be gone for the summer and I won't get to spend any time with them.

If she is on a trip with the kids, I think it is reasonable to want to know how the kids are doing. Do the kids have a way of contacting you without having to go through her? When they are gone, do you get to Skype with them or anything like that?

I usually don't have a problem getting in touch with the kids. I can text or FaceTime them both (we're all nerds).

[vortex of confusion]

Hey V, the cliff I was talking about earlier, right now I want to push! Or jump.

I can relate.

What about walking along the cliff with them so you can see the palm trees and sandy beach? 

This is referencing a post in another thread. Here is a link to the message: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=278153.msg12632475#msg12632475

It is a rather nice analogy about walking along a cliff.

[Hmcbart]

Works well as long as you don't get triggered. I'm a tad bit on the triggered side right now.

Just had a wonderful conversation with my lovely wife. She was telling me about a merit badge thing in 2 weeks for our oldest son with Boy Scouts. My first comment is that I have to work that weekend.  Que the ominous music!

She gets defensive quickly and asks why we (my old son and I) think that she does nothing or can't do anything when it's involves these things. Turns out, she brought it up to my oldest son earlier and his first words were "is daddy off work that weekend?"

I found it a bit commical that we both thought the exact same thing. I just told her that if we both had the same reaction then maybe the perception is there that if it involves scouts and most other things, that it's assumed I'm going to be the one doing it.

It was the correct answer and I didn't follow any of the rules or even attempt to use SET. She quickly went into lawyer mode and began questioning me like I was on the witness stand. Wanting to know why I felt that way and how she is supposed to talk to me if she can't tell me about something without me assuming I'm supposed to be the one who does it. It began to heat up a bit and she started making some negative comments. That's when I employed the RUN technique.  I told her this conversation was getting heated and if I stayed involved I would end up saying something mean and I walked off.

[formflier]

 

I think the trip is an appropriate topic for MC... .

How will you compromise on how long the trip will be... .etc etc... .the negotiation.

tons of good... .current stuff there.

The problem with bringing up specifics in the past... .especially with pwBPD... .is that it quickly turns into a debate about details... .and values... .theory... .big picture stuff goes away.

Also... .there is only so much you can have on your plate at one time... .from what I know about your story... .there is plenty of current issues to work with.

FF

[Hmcbart]

I think what sux the most is how my feelings only serve to invalidate hers. I have so much I would love to tell her about the way I feel but it only causes problems. I know I'm allowed to have feelings but how do you figure out when's it's worth voicing then and when it's better to keep the peace.

[formflier]

I think what sux the most is how my feelings only serve to invalidate hers. I have so much I would love to tell her about the way I feel but it only causes problems. I know I'm allowed to have feelings but how do you figure out when's it's worth voicing then and when it's better to keep the peace.

That... .is the million dollar question. 

There are really two questions... .when to do it... .and how to do it.

I statements help... .and eventually... .as your r/s improves... .and you understand and implement boundaries better... .you get to the point where you say her truth... .and let her deal with the fallout... .instead of "tossing" it back on you. 

The when to do it is important... .because doing it at wrong time inflames things.  Over time... .there will be less and less times that you can't say it... .because you inflamed less and less

This is long process... .but worth it.

FF

[Hmcbart]

Just found out this morning from my 12 y/o that they are planning to be in Texas for the month of July. Who does this? Goes on vacation fit a month other than retired people, rich people, and Europeans. Last year it turned into a month and a half because she kept extending it out.

I've got vacation days but I can't take two weeks right after have a week off this month. It gets frowned on a bit.

If I bring up my concerns now it will only make things worse and she will guilt me into it by using the kids.

Part of me wants to tell her yes enjoy herself and go NC for the month just to clear my head. I have my T appointment in a few minutes and I will be speaking with him about all this.

[formflier]

 

Yeah... .we all know that a healthy r/s  the parents should decide and let kids know... .not that the kids let the parent know what is going on.

I suggest making your plans for July and propose it to her tonight. 

So... ."Honey... .in late July I would like to make plans with you and kids to do this... .something that you can do without taking off much work."

FF

[Hmcbart]

She was in there when he told me. I asked her while he was there knowing that she had already spoken to them. She said she didn't know yet and he spoke up and told me what was said. My 12y/o cannot tell a lie at all. I think she realizes I'm not happy about it and I'm pretty sure she knows why. I just haven't been able to put into words everything I feel about what happened last year.

I hope and pray that my gut is wrong and nothing happened last year. That's a rule number one boundary for me. If it turns out she lied and there was something else going on, I cannot in good conscious continue the relationship. It would destroy me to find out just as its destroying me  keeping my feelings about it bottled up. I never got any closure last year and it was just swept under the rug and I dropped any talk of it until she talked about going back the next time.

The funniest thing is that I found out by accident. Her phone died and we went to Verizon to get a new one. They told her they couldn't move any data from the old one to the new one because it was to far gone. I offered to see what I could do with it and she agreed because she wanted the pictures, calendar, and some information in her text messages.

I'm pretty handy around electronics so I told it apart and retired some broken parts and had it working. That's when I so the texts that we're going back and forth while I was trying to call and talk to her. I was hurt to say the least.

[Hmcbart]

Just got out of my T appointment. He agreed that I should bring this up tomorrow in MC. He is trying to help me get my head right when or if she gets upset about it and even cancels the trip and blames me for it.

He suggested that I speak my feelings in MC and even propose that if she would call me each evening at 9:00 that would help to assure me that nothing is going on that shouldn't be.

I will be saying these things during MC tomorrow. I'm not Nostrodamas but I have a feeling I know what the reaction will be. It will either be her canceling the trip and blaming me for it followed by months of silent treatment and abuse. Or her agreeing to go and to call me but making fun of me and belittling me with negative comments when she calls. She will most likely in this scenario let me know that she will do exactly as I asked and  it nothing more. Meaning she will call at 9:00 tell me she checking in and then say bye with no other contact.

I know I'm reading into things but after 20 years, I'm rarely surprised by her reactions to my feelings. I'm no longer naive enough to believe that she will understand the reason for my feelings and actively seek to assure me that I have noting to fear. At least not without making me feel small and inferior in the process.

I need to quiet my mind and find peace for a few hours.

[formflier]

 

Yep... quiet your mind to get ready is a big deal.

Here is the thing on "investigations".  Don't push to hard.

Your job is to shine the light... not to snoop.

If something bad is going on... it will eventually show... .as long as you are paying attention.

That is much different than you being "intrusive" and "investigating"

Many times... .lots of damage is done in an investigation... .with no results...

Just keep that in mind...

[Hmcbart]

Yep... quiet your mind to get ready is a big deal.

Here is the thing on "investigations".  Don't push to hard.

Your job is to shine the light... not to snoop.

If something bad is going on... it will eventually show... .as long as you are paying attention.

That is much different than you being "intrusive" and "investigating"

Many times... .lots of damage is done in an investigation... .with no results...

Just keep that in mind...

I haven't really ever investigated but then again I don't pay much attention either. I've lived in the fog so long that I wouldn't have seen it if it came out on video... .pun intended.

I am so tired of the drama. I don't ever remember it being this bad.