When the kid's eyes say "fix this", and you can't.

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm just feeling some hard stuff today.

The current court order gives the kid's BPD mom no guaranteed parenting time for the summer. It only spells out the time during the school year that she does get (one weekend a month in our state, every other major holiday in her state). Then is says, "All other parenting time is to be by agreement of the parties". The order also said that she was to begin counseling immediately.

Well, now the order is a year old, she has not come to see the kids even once, and has only seen them for Christmas break and Spring Break. So far, she has not asked for any summer parenting time. But SD12 and SS10 want to know when they can go see their mom.

We've been able to honestly tell them she hasn't asked for any time. And that if she wants any, she needs to email their dad and work that out with him. While the kids understand that, and have asked their mom to talk to their dad so they can see her, she hasn't made any move to get any time. The kids seem aware of who is and who isn't high functioning in this picture and simply won't hold their mother accountable for what she is supposed to do. They wont hold her responsible for having proper communication with their dad and they wont get mad at her for not coming down to see them here the way DH and I always traveled to her state to see them when they lived there. But their sad, searching eyes when they talk to me about seeing their mom tells me that they hold me and DH responsible for making everything all better.

It just makes me so sad because since their mom won't go to counseling sending them to her state isn't the right thing to do for them. It's also not a decision we'd be able to explain away when we go back to court. (Sending them when not ordered to do so would look like a tacit agreement that she doesn't need counseling.) But at the end of the day, two kids who are too young and too easily manipulated to undertand just want to see their mom. And not seeing her this summer means they won't see her until Thanksgiving.

I think deep down it also makes me angry at them because if they were being fare they would expect their mom to hold up her end. I know, they are kids with kid brains and this is the woman who raised them from birth until last year to put her first. But I'm so sick of doing the right thing and still feeling like I'm being made the bad guy.

[Nope]

I'm just feeling some hard stuff today.

The current court order gives the kid's BPD mom no guaranteed parenting time for the summer. It only spells out the time during the school year that she does get (one weekend a month in our state, every other major holiday in her state). Then is says, "All other parenting time is to be by agreement of the parties". The order also said that she was to begin counseling immediately.

Well, now the order is a year old, she has not come to see the kids even once, and has only seen them for Christmas break and Spring Break. So far, she has not asked for any summer parenting time. But SD12 and SS10 want to know when they can go see their mom.

We've been able to honestly tell them she hasn't asked for any time. And that if she wants any, she needs to email their dad and work that out with him. While the kids understand that, and have asked their mom to talk to their dad so they can see her, she hasn't made any move to get any time. The kids seem aware of who is and who isn't high functioning in this picture and simply won't hold their mother accountable for what she is supposed to do. They wont hold her responsible for having proper communication with their dad and they wont get mad at her for not coming down to see them here the way DH and I always traveled to her state to see them when they lived there. But their sad, searching eyes when they talk to me about seeing their mom tells me that they hold me and DH responsible for making everything all better.

It just makes me so sad because since their mom won't go to counseling sending them to her state isn't the right thing to do for them. It's also not a decision we'd be able to explain away when we go back to court. (Sending them when not ordered to do so would look like a tacit agreement that she doesn't need counseling.) But at the end of the day, two kids who are too young and too easily manipulated to undertand just want to see their mom. And not seeing her this summer means they won't see her until Thanksgiving.

I think deep down it also makes me angry at them because if they were being fare they would expect their mom to hold up her end. I know, they are kids with kid brains and this is the woman who raised them from birth until last year to put her first. But I'm so sick of doing the right thing and still feeling like I'm being made the bad guy.

[Sunfl0wer]

This certainly is a difficult position to be in.    It is awful to both feel like you want to guide the kids to a healthy understanding, while at the same time, the reality of mom is not so healthy, so how much sharing is helpful vs harmful... .also, kids naturally desire to bond with both parents, even when disorder is present.

I was in a similar position with my N/BPDexbf, his D, and his BPDexW.  I was raising her as my own, with (ex)BF.  It was a tough balance to both encourage her in a healthier bond with mom and dad, and also try to teach her to be her own healthy person who would be least affected by their disordered ways.

I think that it is good that you are finding a way to be honest with them.  

Another reality of the situation is that even when the absent parent is non disordered, kids have a desire to bond with both parents.  Often kids will create a fantasy idealized parent image of the absent parent to fill this void.  No, it does not seem fair to the parent that puts in the effort, is there during the hard times, has to be firm with discipline.  Sorry!

I think it would be wise to pay close attention to your language.  They may pick up subtleties... .

When you say, "Mom hasn't asked for time."  They may hold you two accountable as though it is your job to facilitate this.  (Mom may be seen as weaker... .or just the fact that you two ARE responsible for everything in their lives they see you two as responsible for this as well)

You may consider replacing that by framing your response in a way that assumes mom is both capable and responsible... .and validate their feelings.  (It can be tricky to not appear the bad guy when they have feelings and the two of you are the only ones there to listen to feelings, it can be convenient to displace negative feelings on you two)

How about:

I wish that you could spend time enjoying and seeing your mom too!  It is important that you all have the best relationship possible.  I hope that she makes arrangements to make that happen this time.  I hope that she will do things differently.

I suspect that mom likely tells kids it is your fault, you two can just send them anyway?

I think it is easy to fall into that trap and tell the kids, "when mom meets her obligations, goes to counseling etc... ."  However, that language implies you are the holder of that condition and the mean one.

See if you can find a way to present mom as capable AND also put the burden on moms shoulders.  Saying "when mom can do... ." Is still making you guys sound responsible for policing and allowing based on moms behavior.

I know that I made that up... .that you did not say that back to the kids.  I'm just making up an example where communications get tricky in what they convey.

Is anything here helpful?

[Sunfl0wer]

There was a time when  SD blamed us for not removing consequences from the court order for mom's misbehavior.

SD felt she needed to protect mom as though mom was being bullied by us to follow orders.  The orders were things mom was doing that are abusive to SD, however, SD did not see it this way.

I told SD15 that she is not aware of the whole picture, she is just aware of mom's version because we do not break the order from the court to not engage with her about court matters.  I assured her that there were even worse consequences to us and her that she had no idea about for removing, changing, and not following what was already in the order.

Her eyes widened, she considered this, I don't know how well she digested it later, but I felt I made a good enough dent.

The truth of the "worse consequences" to us and her was NOT a lie.  The worse consequences that I did not share are the consequences of PAS... .the consequences of the loss of her dad to her more disordered mom... .the consequence of being stuck in this triangle of feeling she had to advocate for her mom... .  So no, no one would jail us if we sent her to mom on non mom days, however, I did not say this... .I just left it open.

I did tell her that if we break the order, don't follow it... .it was likely a new one would need to be rewritten, (yes, mom was trying to get us to not follow it so she could have us appear non compliant)meaning revisiting the drama we just went through the past 4yrs of court fights, court preps, mom being paranoid psychotic(I didn't say this part) She knew full well what 4more years of court could mean, as her mom's enmeshment was severe and included her on everything.  So I think she did get the point that we were not going to be listening to any requests from either her or mom to make changes... .for good reason.

[Nope]

Both of these responses are extremely helpful. Language about all of this is extremely tricky. Especially since their mom is big on playing the victim. The one thing I think we have going for us that helps a little bit is that the parenting plan was very much in her favor for years. So she used to make the paperwork her excuse for everything. As if what was on there was absolutely written in stone (except when bringing up the order didn't help her). So the kids are used to seeing "the rules" as absolute.

We sent their mom the contact information for the children's camps, as it is in the order that we are supposed to do that.

She immediately fired back an email complaining that we didn't give her any schedule or enough notice so that she could make plans. The schedule has been up in OFW for weeks, she just doesn't look. Her next couple of emails focused on trying to make it DH's fault that she didn't ask for summer parenting time because he didn't tell her what and when the kid's summer activities were.

It was strange. I don't really get what she is getting at since she doesn't get any time in her state at all unless DH gives it to her and she needs to let DH know 30 days in advance if she's coming to our state for her one weekend a month. So the only thing I can think is that she was fully expecting to be rescued.

She still hasn't asked for any summer time. DH offered her a one-time change that if she lets him know by this coming Friday she can have the kids in our state for the long weekend of July 4th. I hope for the kids that she takes it.

[Sunfl0wer]

Both of these responses are extremely helpful. Language about all of this is extremely tricky. Especially since their mom is big on playing the victim.

I liked telling SD phrases, that I feel... .would attempt to undo her view of mom as a victim and instead paint a picture of a person who is empowered... .

"Your mom has handled a lot.  When she really wants something, she makes it happen right?  Remember the time she did... . How impressive was that? I know she can handle this, it isn't half as hard as that.  She's had some tough stuff to manage, she can easily do this!  I trust she can."  (The truth is... .she CAN... I think it is important they believe this too)

Be careful at appearing/expressing that you KNOW mom will fail.  It can appear your fault for predicting it somehow.

I think expressing hope along with the kids is validating right now while they are in this fantasy phase of their view of her.  Then you can validate their feelings of disappointment when that occurs... ."yes, I wish for... .as well... .this is disappointing."  Otherwise if they are hopeful, and know you think she'll fail... .then she fails... .even if you do not say, "I told you so," they can still feel that way without your words... .and hate YOU for it.

(Also, I don't think you have to lie and feel fake hope.  I think as a stepmom to my SD, I did wish her to have a healthy r/s with her mom.  The trouble was... .I knew mom was not capable.  Yes, I felt I wished her and her mom could have healthy time together just enjoying one another. (Not exposed to mom's toxic ways... .of smearing us... .but I left this part out))

Many of the issues the kids have with mom are similar issues with r/s they may be experiencing with friends or seeing on TV.  While it may be too sensitive to teach them about the dynamics of their mom, I'd often bite my tongue in regards to mom, but hold the lesson I wanted to teach in the back of my mind, then express it when talking about a less sensitive topic, relate the lesson to a friend or tv show... .but casually. (Never obvious... .never with my own agenda to prove anything... .but rather out of love to share some wisdom to help in all r/s)

Nope,

It is possible also that she was not looking to be fully rescued, sounds like she is just full of excuses and no effort or initiative.  Sadly, lack of follow through is possibly a big gift to all of you.  Oh how I wish my SD mom lacked follow through!  It was a most painful journey... .I cannot describe the pain of being the partner of a child in this position.  I cannot fully describe the pain of watching and participating as a Stepmom, having some/limited power, wanting to both rescue and shake sense into the child, wanting to both rescue and shake sense into my partner... .And more... . *sigh*

I'm sorry that you are in this challenging position!

You are an awesome step mom to be so attentive and thoughtful and putting in such effort to make the best moves possible in such a situation.  There are so many dynamics and factors involved it is tricky to navigate.  I hope that their dad appreciates these qualities in you, for managing this!  As sometimes this role can feel like such a thankless burden as our efforts are sometimes met by the kids with frustration misplaced... . (And I often had my own misplaced frustrations as a result!) However, with a supportive, appreciative partner,... .that love, respect and appreciation can mute the other bad feelings we may have about it all.

Best wishes to you!

Feel free to come back and share what your thoughts are in how you are going to proceed.

(Hopefully if you do, more will comment as I am ONE opinion... .and ONE experience... .and just another person... .not a qualified therapist on how to handle the kids stuff... .but I have done much reading around here, the links, PAS etc.  So use what makes sense only pls!)