How did you know when it was time to divorce your spouse?

[workinprogress]

The years of struggling with an affectionless wife has taken it's toll on me.  I just don't know how I can keep on going.  All she does is sit and text on her phone.  There is no communication or sex or even displays of love in my marriage.  I feel sad and cheated out of almost 2 decades of my life.  I'm seriously thinking about calling a lawyer tomorrow.

How did you know that you had enough and filed for divorce.

[HopefulDad]

For a while, I asked myself "If we were to divorce, but then suddenly my wife realized she had a disorder and vowed to seek treatment, would I stay?" and the answer was yes.

When that answer changed to "No", I knew it was time to file.

[goateeki]

The years of struggling with an affectionless wife has taken it's toll on me.  I just don't know how I can keep on going.  All she does is sit and text on her phone.  There is no communication or sex or even displays of love in my marriage.  I feel sad and cheated out of almost 2 decades of my life.  I'm seriously thinking about calling a lawyer tomorrow.

How did you know that you had enough and filed for divorce.

Once you start moving on it, it gets easier.  It's a huge decision.  But what you say here rings true to many people, myself included, and you should know that you don't have to love that way.  

I knew it was time when I pointed out this particular issue to her (what you state exists in your marriage) by telling her that I didn't think that she loved me, that I wanted (and want) to be with someone who is proud and happy to be with me, rather than merely tolerates me, as she seemed to.  Her response was to go absolutely off-the-walls nuts.  I made a need known, and I was summarily cut off.  Shunned, disconnected, utterly devalued.  

She has an exquisite history of trauma, including sexual trauma, and she was abandoned by her mother.  I spent two decades receiving her instructions on how to do every last little thing just the way she wanted it done, including such bizarre things as how to place one plate atop another when putting them away in a cabinet.  How to rinse off a toothbrush. I could write a book on the unusual behavior.  And yes, there was a diagnosis.

So, I'm not sure what you're dealing with here.  Maybe it doesn't matter.  As my late father said, life is way too short to spend even one minute of it unhappy.

And I'm pleased to report that on the other side, I've found real happiness.  

[workinprogress]

The years of struggling with an affectionless wife has taken it's toll on me.  I just don't know how I can keep on going.  All she does is sit and text on her phone.  There is no communication or sex or even displays of love in my marriage.  I feel sad and cheated out of almost 2 decades of my life.  I'm seriously thinking about calling a lawyer tomorrow.

How did you know that you had enough and filed for divorce.

Once you start moving on it, it gets easier.  It's a huge decision.  But what you say here rings true to many people, myself included, and you should know that you don't have to love that way.  

I knew it was time when I pointed out this particular issue to her (what you state exists in your marriage) by telling her that I didn't think that she loved me, that I wanted (and want) to be with someone who is proud and happy to be with me, rather than merely tolerates me, as she seemed to.  Her response was to go absolutely off-the-walls nuts.  I made a need known, and I was summarily cut off.  Shunned, disconnected, utterly devalued.  

She has an exquisite history of trauma, including sexual trauma, and she was abandoned by her mother.  I spent two decades receiving her instructions on how to do every last little thing just the way she wanted it done, including such bizarre things as how to place one plate atop another when putting them away in a cabinet.  How to rinse off a toothbrush. I could write a book on the unusual behavior.  And yes, there was a diagnosis.

So, I'm not sure what you're dealing with here.  Maybe it doesn't matter.  As my late father said, life is way too short to spend even one minute of it unhappy.

And I'm pleased to report that on the other side, I've found real happiness.  

Thanks goateeki.  I am really becoming aware of how bizarre her foo is.  Her sister is in a sexless marriage also.  Her poor husband tried everything to make it work.  Yet, their family paints him like he's the devil.

Her parents have so much control over her.  Instead of her going out and making money, she is always trying to mooch off of her dad.

Plus, I had a great career opportunity, 6 figures or more, and she refused to move to make it happen because she didn't want to move two hours away from her parents.

I'm tired of it all.  The more I try to talk to her, the more she closes up.  Again, there is no love, or displays of affection.  All she does is sit and play on the phone and on facebook.

I'm not on facebook, but one of my buddies who is said, "your wife must hate you, she never posts any pictures of you on FB."

Why am I wasting my life like this?

I just pray that I have the strength to call a lawyer tomorrow.

[ForeverDad]

Well, the first step, choosing which path before you is the one to take, that is the hardest.  After that subsequent steps are just continuing on that path and you will become increasingly sure of your destination.

I knew it was over when I had no other choice.  Once we had a child after a dozen years of marriage, she apparently couldn't love two and chose our child.  He was the Golden Child and I was the Rejected Despised Spouse.  She was more Paranoid PD than Borderline PD, as I saw it, but her hyper-vigilance to protect our child from abductors, abusers, my friends, my relatives, doomed our relationship.  The rants and rages had become increasingly intense, no longer 'manageable' as high maintenance spouse.  Once everyone was driven away, I was just about the only one left, she started looking at me sideways as a potential child abuser, her and son against the world, that's when I knew there was No Hope left.  She wasn't listening to me any more and I couldn't reason with her any more.  I no longer had any authority in her eyes so I had to accept that if I were to be a parent I would have to seek out the only Authority left, family court.

[workinprogress]

Well, the first step, choosing which path before you is the one to take, that is the hardest.  After that subsequent steps are just continuing on that path and you will become increasingly sure of your destination.

I knew it was over when I had no other choice.  Once we had a child after a dozen years of marriage, she apparently couldn't love two and chose our child.  He was the Golden Child and I was the Rejected Despised Spouse.  She was more Paranoid PD than Borderline PD, as I saw it, but her hyper-vigilance to protect our child from abductors, abusers, my friends, my relatives, doomed our relationship.  The rants and rages had become increasingly intense, no longer 'manageable' as high maintenance spouse.  Once everyone was driven away, I was just about the only one left, she started looking at me sideways as a potential child abuser, her and son against the world, that's when I knew there was No Hope left.  She wasn't listening to me any more and I couldn't reason with her any more.  I no longer had any authority in her eyes so I had to accept that if I were to be a parent I would have to seek out the only Authority left, family court.

I can relate to so much that you just wrote.  I am the rejected spouse.  She is all about the kids.  In fact, I told her Saturday Night that I feel like I was nothing more than a sperm donation.

I think I have made up my mind for the path.

[goateeki]

The years of struggling with an affectionless wife has taken it's toll on me.  I just don't know how I can keep on going.  All she does is sit and text on her phone.  There is no communication or sex or even displays of love in my marriage.  I feel sad and cheated out of almost 2 decades of my life.  I'm seriously thinking about calling a lawyer tomorrow.

How did you know that you had enough and filed for divorce.

Once you start moving on it, it gets easier.  It's a huge decision.  But what you say here rings true to many people, myself included, and you should know that you don't have to love that way.  

I knew it was time when I pointed out this particular issue to her (what you state exists in your marriage) by telling her that I didn't think that she loved me, that I wanted (and want) to be with someone who is proud and happy to be with me, rather than merely tolerates me, as she seemed to.  Her response was to go absolutely off-the-walls nuts.  I made a need known, and I was summarily cut off.  Shunned, disconnected, utterly devalued.  

She has an exquisite history of trauma, including sexual trauma, and she was abandoned by her mother.  I spent two decades receiving her instructions on how to do every last little thing just the way she wanted it done, including such bizarre things as how to place one plate atop another when putting them away in a cabinet.  How to rinse off a toothbrush. I could write a book on the unusual behavior.  And yes, there was a diagnosis.

So, I'm not sure what you're dealing with here.  Maybe it doesn't matter.  As my late father said, life is way too short to spend even one minute of it unhappy.

And I'm pleased to report that on the other side, I've found real happiness.  

Thanks goateeki.  I am really becoming aware of how bizarre her foo is.  Her sister is in a sexless marriage also.  Her poor husband tried everything to make it work.  Yet, their family paints him like he's the devil.

Her parents have so much control over her.  Instead of her going out and making money, she is always trying to mooch off of her dad.

Plus, I had a great career opportunity, 6 figures or more, and she refused to move to make it happen because she didn't want to move two hours away from her parents.

I'm tired of it all.  The more I try to talk to her, the more she closes up.  Again, there is no love, or displays of affection.  All she does is sit and play on the phone and on facebook.

I'm not on facebook, but one of my buddies who is said, "your wife must hate you, she never posts any pictures of you on FB."

Why am I wasting my life like this?

I just pray that I have the strength to call a lawyer tomorrow.

I really feel bad for you because there are so many similarities between your situation and what was my own situation.  My ex wife's sister is in her 40's, has never been married or had kids, had just one relationship with a boy in high school (who finally left her) and lives alone with two yappy little dogs.  She's at least 100 lbs overweight.  My ex wife's mom -- the one who abandoned the family for sex with a young man who was still living with his parents -- returned and now rules the roost. Her husband is a mouse of a man who is at her beck and call at all times, driving her around even when he has no business at the destination, and will sit in the car like a chauffeur or drive around the block for two hours simply because my former mother-in-law doesn't feel like driving.  I would never do something like that to another person, but she does it without a second thought, and he mindlessly and almost happily complies. There are whole levels of family history that I won't go into, and all of this exists outside my ex wife's rape (when we were in grad school).

Along the lines of what you said here, back in the late 90's I founded and built a law firm that was grossing nearly $1 million a year inside of two years.  I was working my tail off for our future and the kids we did not yet have.  She would call me at the office five and six times a day, yell at me for working late, complain incessantly about me to my family, her own family, and anyone who would listen about how I was not interested in coming home and watching television with her (she had zero interest in doing anything else, honestly). 

So I sold my interest in the law firm to my partners (who are now multi-millionaires).  Within six months at my new 9 to 5 job, she was telling me that I needed to work longer hours and be more focused on my career.

These people wreck lives. Every humane instinct you might have as a husband or father will be exploited and turned against you.  There is no way to get through, there is no way to reach some kind of happy accommodation.  That might work for younger people with nothing much at stake, but when you walk down the path of marriage and children and houses and retirement, being with the wrong person, let alone someone with a PD (mine was diagnosed) can utterly wreck your life.

I just want to add that if you do this, expect her to suddenly become a devoted spouse -- for like ten minutes. Then the recrimination will start.  The antics of mine, after I commenced the divorce, ranged from begging to have me back, to faulting me for placing a limit on the duration of marriage counseling, to making veiled references to my death. So if you do this -- and I think maybe you see that you must -- then you have to be like the Wehrmacht rolling into Poland in 1939.  Don't let sympathy get in the way. Achieve your objective. Devote all energy and thought to the calm achievement of your objective.

And yeah, she hates you.  All that time on the phone and Facebook all day is very likely her complaining about you to her friends, who happily commiserate, while you're out working to feed her and keep a roof over her head. Consider that you might be married to someone who is really just a petulant child.

[going places]

How did I know when it was time?

When, after 25 years of abuse, I realized that what he was doing WAS abuse.

(( I was one of the ignorant people who thought 'abuse' was 'black eyes and broken bones' ))

When he started ignoring his own daughter, gaslighting her, and manipulating her, and I could SEE it.

When I had to get checked NOT ONCE but TWICE for STD's because of his porn addiction and affairs.

When I knew what an evil monster he is, and I didn't want the kids around that influence anymore.

When I knew my only purpose in his eyes was to be his 'steady sex toy'... .that he had no capacity for true love, real intimacy; no future, no plans. He treated me like a piece of meat. Now I know, that his 30 year addiction to pornography, warped his brain; and it's not me, it's him who is sick... .

When I knew that he was "faking it" when he was "pretending" to be this "christian man" ((going to church, doing a Bible study, seeing a Pastor for 'counseling' )) His words were "The Jesus things just didn't do it for me"... .but he put on a GREAT SHOW for all to see what a "christian man" he was... .That makes me want to puke right there.

When I was the only one to get counseling, when I cried, and begged him to stop, and work together towards our future. When the girls cried and begged him to stop what he was doing and change... .and with no emotion, not one tear, with a straight stone cold face said "I will just do this again in 2 years"... .When I asked him "what were you plans when I found out you were having an affair" He said "I don't have any, I thought I could have my cake and eat it too"... .

Yeah... .those combined, and in order (last one to first one) , let me know it was time to get the hell away from him.

[jhkbuzz]

 

I made a need known, and I was summarily cut off.  Shunned, disconnected, utterly devalued.  

After she admitted to an affair with a co-worker, we tried to make it work for about a month and a half. I was a complete mess. At one point I told her that I needed more reassurances from her - of her love and of her commitment to make things work. (She had told me she wanted to make it work, but her words seemed half-hearted and less than sincere).

I got the break up email a few days later. Truth is, there wasn't any room for my needs for the last several years of our 8 year r/s - so I stuffed them down.

That's no way to live.

[scraps66]

If still having an issue there is a book you can read, "Too Bad to Stay, Too Good to Leave," I think that's the title.  Can help ask yourself questions and put things in perspective.

For me it was with the realization, after the second unplanned pregnancy, that what had happened was a complete fabrication on my ex's part.  First the children, then the house both of which she assumed she would get full custody of even based on the very short marriage.

[livednlearned]

Hi workinprogress,

I'm so sorry you're going through this, being rejected by your wife. There is a TED talk about emotional first aid that your post made me think about -- how truly debilitating it is to experience rejection and especially loneliness: https://www.ted.com/playlists/260/talks_to_watch_when_your_famil

Feeling lonely in our own families -- especially our chosen families -- is an awful feeling.  :'(

The decision to leave is different for everyone. Some have the decisions made for them, others must make the decision. Both are hard. We have a series of lessons above (next to the red flashing light) with a lot of good material. These are two from that list that might be helpful as you work your way through this decision:

TOOLS: Isn't Marriage Supposed to be Forever?

To succeed or eventually give up are both reasonable outcomes. What matters most is how we approach it - our character, our ability to see our role, and our ability to make good choices through the process. We can remain stuck in indecision for overly long periods (years), or unable to see our roles and not be willing to make as much change as we are asking of others, or becoming resentful victims, or be stuck in recovery afterward (years).

PERSPECTIVES: Is it better for the kids if I stay or leave?

There have been studies that show that kids who grow up in divorced homes have more problems in life than kids whose parents stay together. Would having a BPD/NPD parent (or other abusive parent) change this outlook? If you leave, do you think your kids have been harmed by the friction between you and the ex? Would things be better for your kids living in a two-parent home situation? If you are the father, do you believe that leaving your marriage means leaving your kids? Read more.

[ugghh]

Work,

So sorry to hear of your situation.  You have taken a big first step to move forward by coming to this board.  For me it took about 18 months with an awesome therapist to come to the realization that she was never going to change - he often used the word CHRONIC when describing her.  BPD is not something that they do, it is literally who they are and it defines their very being.

Consulting a lawyer is a great step, but don't neglect your emotional needs in addition to your legal needs.

[workinprogress]

Work,

So sorry to hear of your situation.  You have taken a big first step to move forward by coming to this board.  For me it took about 18 months with an awesome therapist to come to the realization that she was never going to change - he often used the word CHRONIC when describing her.  BPD is not something that they do, it is literally who they are and it defines their very being.

Consulting a lawyer is a great step, but don't neglect your emotional needs in addition to your legal needs.

So, I didn't call a lawyer or anything.  I managed to get through my little anxiety spell I guess.  I really can't put my kids through a divorce right now. 

Work is going pretty good and I have some side projects I'm working on a little at a time.

I also hit the gym pretty hard tonight. 

I am just trying to count my blessings right now and see what happens.

[jedimaster]

So, I didn't call a lawyer or anything.  I managed to get through my little anxiety spell I guess.  I really can't put my kids through a divorce right now. 

Work is going pretty good and I have some side projects I'm working on a little at a time.

I also hit the gym pretty hard tonight. 

I am just trying to count my blessings right now and see what happens.

I'm not advising you to go ahead with a divorce, but I would say that now might be a good time to plan an exit strategy to have in place should you need it.  If you're not talking to a lawyer, at least have a name in mind and possibly his office on speed dial.  Think through, step by step, what you would do if you did decide to pursue a divorce.  Make an estimate of the cost; think about your assets and how they would be affected, where you (and the kids) would go if you had to leave, etc.  Cover all the bases.  If you are a detailed thinker and can do this all in your mind, good; however I'd recommend finding a secure place to write it out.  There's a private journal site called Penzu that I used as a way to organize my thoughts.  (It's private and contents don't show up in search engines.)

Once I decided to face the dragon and discovered that it was in fact, slayable, I felt incredibly empowered and no longer hopeless.  At the time I went through this exercise I was still trying to figure out if I could stay and make it work.  Just knowing there was an escape route removed a huge burden from my shoulders and allowed me to view the situation objectively.  Eventually I came to the conclusion that leaving was my only healthy option, but even if you decide to stay, working through a "what-if" scenario will free you from feeling trapped or obligated and allow you to make that decision freely.  Good luck.