Mother losing custody, what to expect?

[LongRoad]

CPS removed my husbands children from their mothers home due to extreme emotional abuse. CPS and the GAL's recommendation will be for the courts to give my husband primary custody (not joint) and for the mother to have limited visitation. As of right now, the mother does not know that these will be the recommendations to the court and still believes that she will eventually get her children back. I am very concerned about the fall out. The mother has been on the "brink" for a long time and I believe that this will send her completely over the edge with us being her primary targets. Honestly ... .I'm scared. I have no idea what to expect and I am worried it may escalate very quickly to some sort of retaliation. Has anyone here been in a similar situation?

[Panda39]

CPS removed my husbands children from their mothers home due to extreme emotional abuse. CPS and the GAL's recommendation will be for the courts to give my husband primary custody (not joint) and for the mother to have limited visitation. As of right now, the mother does not know that these will be the recommendations to the court and still believes that she will eventually get her children back. I am very concerned about the fall out. The mother has been on the "brink" for a long time and I believe that this will send her completely over the edge with us being her primary targets. Honestly ... .I'm scared. I have no idea what to expect and I am worried it may escalate very quickly to some sort of retaliation. Has anyone here been in a similar situation?

Hi LongRoad,

Welcome to the BPD Family 

It sounds like you have a big change coming your way and a very good one in terms of the children.  It sounds like you and your husband are doing a lot of things right.  I know that this change looks scary but CPS and the GAL both have confidence that you and your husband are up to the job.

Has (BM) Biological Mom been diagnosed? How long have BM and your husband been divorced?  How long have you and your husband been together?  Do you bring your own children into this relationship?  How much do you know about BPD? What is your relationship like currently with BM? What type of retaliation do you fear? Sorry if I seem like a "nosey body" I'm just trying to get a better sense of the big picture.

How many children does your husband have?  This transition could be hard on everyone but particularly for the kids.  Do they receive therapy?  The added support could be helpful to them.  How do you anticipate the kids will react?  One thing I want to suggest is to validate their feelings (without bad mouthing mom) it is important that they feel heard and understood.  There is a good book about validation that you might want to check out called The Power of Validation: Arming Your Child Against Bullying, Peer Pressure, Addiction, Self-Harm, and Out-of-Control Emotionsby Karyn D. Hall and Melissa Cook.

I also want to point out the box to the right you might find many of the links there helpful in terms of communicating more effectively with BM.  Lesson 5 might be particularly relevant in your case. ----->

I also want to remind you that you and your husband should be sure to take care of yourselves as you go through all of this, sometimes we get so focused on others that we forget to re-charge our own batteries.

Know that you are not alone we all understand what it's like to have a pwBPD (person with BPD) in our lives and how complicated that can be particularly when kids are involved. 

I hope to hear more of your story.

Panda39

[livednlearned]

Hi LongRoad,

I wanted to join Panda39 in welcoming you to the site -- you've no doubt been through a lot to get to this point! And the extreme emotional abuse had to be bad for CPS to get involved and the GALs to recommend your H get primary custody with limited visitation. So sad for the kids  :'( I hope that they adjust ok and are able to heal under your care.

Bill Eddy, who wrote a book about family law courts and high conflict divorce/custody battles, says that people with PDs tend to fall into three categories:

generally cooperative

not cooperative, not dangerous

not cooperative, dangerous

How would you describe bio mom? Does she have a history of being a danger to herself (acting in, i.e. attempting suicide or self-harm) or being a danger to others (acting out, i.e. recruiting negative advocates, smear campaigns, physical violence)?

It's very easy to go to the worse-case scenario when something like this happens. I recommend letting yourself worry about these scenarios for a maximum of 30 min a day. For example, if you are concerned she might try to kidnap the kids, worry for only 30 min. Then post a question on the board and get feedback from the collective here.

People with BPD are not good at long-term planning and don't tend to think things through very carefully. My ex is a former trial lawyer and it was a real eye-opener to see him become his own worst enemy not just in the court room but with everything he did in regard to custody. Honestly, I thought he was going to be more formidable as an adversary. While he was occasionally scary and always mentally ill, he wasn't strategic and I found over time that I developed the skills and solutions to be a step ahead of him. I would characterize him as not cooperative and dangerous.

Find out exactly when bio mom will learn of the recommendations. If you can, have the kids with you. If you're worried about a campaign, get ahead of the message. Let the school know, tell your employer what is happening, and let neighbors, friends, and family.

You may want to talk to the kids with a family counselor who deals with trauma. In some ways, you have an easier time of it with the kids because the court clearly understands that there is a problem, and this gives you permission to discuss it openly with the kids (at an age-appropriate level). The rest of us have to tip-toe around things because of parental alienation and the whole "don't disparage the other parent" stuff in most custody orders.

Hang in there, and make sure you and your H take care of yourselves. It's easy to get burned out, and when that happens everyone suffers. You need a full tank to deal with BPD. We're here for you.

[LongRoad]

Hi Panda39 & livednlearned, thank you so much for the great welcome and advice. I've looked around for a while trying to find a forum such as this one and I'm learning and reading a lot.

The mother has been diagnosed with BPD, Depressive disorder NOS, Avoidant personality disorder and Dependent personality disorder. They have been divorced a little over 6 years and we have been married for three. I have two bio children, but only one living at home. She is nine, my oldest is 21. I have been reading everything and anything I can get my hands on. I also got the book I Hate You, Please Don't Leave Me and I'm ordering Walking On Eggshells. The BM hates my guts, she blames this all on me and there were "no problems" till I came into the picture, which of course is a lie. Two weeks after my husband left, she removed all family pictures from the walls and went through every photo album to cut his head out. Mailed the heads to her in the mail and put the pictures back up where they were visible to the children. Even though it has been 6 years and she recently remarried, she acts like he just left her yesterday.

My husband has two children and I have a very good relationship with both of them. The transition into our home has been great so far as they have been here six weeks. The official reversal of custody won't take place for another three weeks. They are both in therapy, oldest child is believed to be suffering from PTSD. She had been pushed to the bring of suicide; the emotional abuse was extensive. Thank for the book suggestion and I did read number 5.

We are trying to stay grounded and focus on the right things but this has been an extremely stressful situation. As of right now, the BM can see one child unsupervised and the other has the option of whether she wants to see her or not per court order. The BM is extremely hostile and blames us for her daughter not wanting to see her.

My concern is that when she finally realizes that she is losing custody, that she be pushed to a point of no return. They are her identity. She doesn't work (hasn't for over 18 years), she doesn't have a close knit social circle and her only support is her equally abusive mother and sister who has little to nothing to do with her. We like her husband, really nice guy ... .but he really has no vested interest in the kids and takes the stance whatever happens happens. He "raised his kids already" is what he said one to us before. I think he is the only the only that has kept her even moderately under control thus far. Her daughter shared with me that her mother acts like a different person when he is around and never loses her temper. They basically had a weekend relationship till they got married (never lived together) so I think he may be in for a shock before long.

Right before CPS removed them from her home, we met for a pickup and almost attacked my husband from behind. I hollered at her to get back in her car and that broke the situation. She was physically abusive towards my husband and was know to pick up her cat and throw it into the wall on occasion when she got mad ... .that deeply disturbs me. In person, she has called me names while she had her foot on the gas and was taking off, but she has never came at me more or less.  She did promise that she would, "get me". At that time I had a lot less understanding and told her to come on over, I'd be waiting for her. I have little patience for BS and this whole situation has been full of it.

The kids are great, my husband is amazing and he is my best friend ... .my biggest fear is will she come do something in the middle of the night while we are sleeping. She has admittedly drove by our house in the middle of the night to "see who was here". BM lives 30 minutes away none the less.

I am stressing with worst case scenarios ... .Betty Broderick keeps running through my mind as her behavior is eerily similar. She has threatened suicide in the past with my husband and wished death on us both multiple times. We are still going through the smear campaign but that really doesn't bother me. The people who know us will know better anyway.

My step daughter knows something is wrong with her mother, but I really don't think she knows exactly what yet. My step son is clueless as to what all is really going on. Sorry if some of the info seems randomly thrown together, trying to read through and make sure I answer all your questions.

[livednlearned]

Oof, that's a lot. It sounds like she is "not cooperative and dangerous." Dangerous does not necessarily mean she will harm you physically. It's possible she will come as close to the line as she can without crossing it, to try and project her grief and fury on you and your H, her targets, because she lacks the skills to process painful feelings. With PDs that tend toward dangerous, you want really strong boundaries. That means if you assert them, you have to stick to them. If she stalks you or make threats, you might get a restraining or protective order, for example. If she threatens to commit suicide, you might call 911, as an another example.

A lot of us have very dysregulated ex spouses, and it's easy to think worst-case scenarios. It's a fine line to be proactive and well-informed about what to do in case there is a crisis, and to live your life like everything is (relatively) normal.

My ex had a similar rap sheet -- he threw our dog  :'( made threats, called me names, the usual. He did a lot of drive-by's and put some effort into smearing my name to my partner's employer, my employer, family, friends, etc. Like you, it wasn't really a problem since they pretty much knew something was wrong with him. If it is any comfort, my ex never crossed the line, although I was worried sick for years that he would. I ended up with full custody last year and the judge terminated visitation. N/BPDx dysregulated for no good reason (to my knowledge), and also when there was good reason (discovering that I was dating). That led to some worrisome behavior that led me to file for full custody. Then, once all the court appearances were over, it went weirdly quiet and has remained that way since.

There are people here who have multiple recording devices handy whenever they're around the BPD parent. In some states, there are two-party consent laws, which means you need the other person's consent to record them. Even in states where two-party is required, people here will record as a defensive measure. I recorded my ex only when I felt he was winding up. Just seeing me raise my phone got him to stand down -- my L didn't like the idea of me recording because some judges find it antagonistic and it gets into complicated privacy laws. I did it anyway, and my L said she would stand behind me if it ever became a problem. I never used footage in court because I didn't need to. There was plenty of evidence that N/BPDx had problems and the judge, while a little too measured and slow for my liking, did seem to get what was going on.  

I put up cameras outside my home (that didn't work) and didn't give S13 a key to the house -- he didn't need one. I also showed neighbors a picture of N/BPDx's car, and told them and the apartment management that there were only two times during the week when he was supposed to be on the property. There was an open file at my work about him, and I didn't tell S13 much in advance, or in detail, since N/BPDx tended to pump him for information. S13 knew his dad was a bully and seemed relieved when I told him that some information was private.

There's a good chance she will dysregulate when she learns that she has lost custody. There is also a good chance she will not be worse than she has been in the past.

Hang in there and make sure you take care of yourself -- don't let this consume you. Take safety precautions, have strong boundaries, and learn what you can about her diagnoses. And try to avoid reading about stories like Betty Broderick. It will just jack up your nervous system and wear you out.



LnL

[Panda39]

I have been reading everything and anything I can get my hands on. I also got the book I Hate You, Please Don't Leave Me and I'm ordering Walking On Eggshells.

I did this too.  I started by hitting the library and having everything on the topic in the whole system eventually sent to me.  I think knowledge is power. One book you might also want to check out is Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by Christine Ann Lawson.  This board (Coparenting) is my "home board" but I also visit other boards too to get other perspectives particularly the [L5] Coping and Healing in a Family with a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw Board so I can get the perspective of children with BPD parents.

The BM hates my guts, she blames this all on me and there were "no problems" till I came into the picture, which of course is a lie.

Yep, same here.  My SO's uBPDxw told their kids that dad was having affair with me and that was why he left her.  Which of course wasn't true either.  This is a case of not being able to face their own part in the break up of their marriages so they have to project the blame one someone else and the lucky recipients are you and me.  

(As you read these boards and other peoples posts you will find we all have so many things in common it was amazing to me when I first arrived here)

Two weeks after my husband left, she removed all family pictures from the walls and went through every photo album to cut his head out. Mailed the heads to him in the mail and put the pictures back up where they were visible to the children.

All I can say is WOW... .just WOW!

My husband has two children and I have a very good relationship with both of them. The transition into our home has been great so far as they have been here six weeks. The official reversal of custody won't take place for another three weeks.

This is great, the stability is so good for the kids and it must be a relief for them to just be able to be kids.  Have you discussed the upcoming change with the kids or are you waiting until mom is informed?  I'll repeat again what I said before and that is validate their feelings when you talk with them.  Maybe work with their therapist on a good approach to talking to the kids about this.

They are both in therapy, oldest child is believed to be suffering from PTSD. She had been pushed to the bring of suicide; the emotional abuse was extensive.

My SO's D14 has also been diagnosed with PTSD she had a situation of inappropriate touching by an older child when she was young and that combined with an emotionally abusive and unstable mother also triggered her to make a suicide threat that landed her in an inpatient Psych Hospital for 2 weeks early last year. (Landing in that hospital was one of the best things that happened to her - got her a lot of support - things dad wanted and mom had been blocking or dragging her heels on, gave her coping skills to deal with her feelings, got her on helpful medication, and eventually lead to a change in therapist and the PTSD diagnosis)

So in terms of your oldest child be aware that she might be particularly sensitive to the change that is coming.

We are trying to stay grounded and focus on the right things but this has been an extremely stressful situation.

This is good.  Keep that team strong (you and dad).  Take time for the two of you every once in a while.

My concern is that when she finally realizes that she is losing custody, that she be pushed to a point of no return. They are her identity... .

... .Right before CPS removed them from her home, we met for a pickup and almost attacked my husband from behind. I hollered at her to get back in her car and that broke the situation. She was physically abusive towards my husband and was know to pick up her cat and throw it into the wall on occasion when she got mad ... .that deeply disturbs me. In person, she has called me names while she had her foot on the gas and was taking off, but she has never came at me more or less.  She did promise that she would, "get me"... . 

... .my biggest fear is will she come do something in the middle of the night while we are sleeping. She has admittedly drove by our house in the middle of the night to "see who was here"... .

I think liveandlearned has given excellent suggestions regarding the possible need for a restraining order and the use of recording devices as a deterrent to bad behavior.  If it makes you feel more comfortable you could look into an alarm system for your home.  Always have that cell phone on you in case you need to call the police.  

You do your best to be prepared and then you live your life... .don't let her run it.

I am stressing with worst case scenarios ... .Betty Broderick keeps running through my mind as her behavior is eerily similar.

You can't control the future and things that haven't happened yet. Yes you can be as prepared as possible but once you are prepared, ruminating on all of the possible scenarios is not helpful.  Try to stay focused on the here and now, put your energy in the present not in things that haven't happened and might never happen.

I am guilty of doing this too both in my personal life and at work.  I visualize a hamster on a wheel in my head and the faster he is running the more worried about future events I am.  My goal is to slow down or stop that wheel from spinning... .give the hamster a rest.  By the way the hamster's name is "Bob"  

My step daughter knows something is wrong with her mother, but I really don't think she knows exactly what yet. My step son is clueless as to what all is really going on.

I have found in my situation the longer my SO and his uBPDxw have been apart the the kids were able to better see who was the responsible parent and who was the hot mess.  As you go along your husbands kids will probably have questions and share more of their experiences with mom or at least that what I have experienced.  Both of my SO's daughters (D14 & D18) both know that we believe mom has BPD and both have done some reading on the topic.  :)ad is able to discuss mom's behavior with them in terms of BPD and help them with tools to better deal with their mom.  

Some here think not naming BPD is better in that case you can just talk to the kids in terms of mom's behaviors without the label.  (Naming it BPD or not with the kids is a personal choice)

So take a deep breath, be a prepared as you can, stay in the present and love the heck out of your family    

Keep educating yourself, keep coming here and posting questions and concerns as they come up, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience from the members here that you can tap into.  

Panda39

[Nope]

If there is one thing I've learned in the three years that I've been driving myself nuts running scenarios in my head, it's that whatever actually happens won't follow any of my scenarios. It'll always be some other thing that I didn't think of. Mostly that is because I have no control over the situation. Unless I am specifically attacked in some way, the fight stays between the BPD mom, my DH, the courts, and the kids.

It sounds to me that the kid's mom has a complex diagnosis. She is likely to be highly unpredictable but that doesn't necessarily mean she'll be effective. She may not have the level of focus to stick to any reaction long term.

When my DH first got residential custody out of BPD mom's state a year ago, we knew she didn't have the money to fight us in court. She's barely seen the kids at all though she speaks to them a court-mandated three times per week. She got a new boyfriend less than two months after she lost custody and now her focus is totally on him. Still, we've pretty much lost the psychological war for the kids as all the distance makes it easier for the kids to deny what they've been through and elivate her to Mother of The Year status in their minds. So with court winding down my advice is definitely focus on yourselves and the kids like you clearly have been. Their mom will handle court being over however she handles it.

[ForeverDad]

I think you can expect some level of blaming and blame-shifting.  Quite possibly she will make allegations trying to make him look worse than her.  Fortunately the divorce is long over.  She's had 6 years to lose credibility that she probably was defaulted with during the divorce.  Courts don't make major changes to an order without really big reasons.

Does "primary custody" include either decision-making or tie-breaker status?  If not, she will delay and obstruct whenever possible.

Also, there is an emergency or temporary order in place so that the children are with you and H, right?  Make sure it doesn't lapse before the new order is in place and any possibility of a legal objection, reconsideration or appeal is past.

Another also, see if language can be included that H gets to monitor the events and have the ability to withhold exchanges as long as he deems it unsafe.  Ex would still be able to seek her day in court, but he would have the authority to handle child care based on her immediate behaviors.  Even if he can't get that, if she does flame out and he wonders whether to take action or not, this ought to work:  It is easier to get forgiveness than to get permission.  The point is that court will not be upset with him if he has to step up and take measures necessary to care for the children beyond the specifics of the order.

[ForeverDad]

LongRoad, it's been over a month, can you give us an update?  Is there any way we can help?  Or just let us know events and the legal process are heading in the right direction?

The peer support here is invaluable with understanding, skill set and validation training, strategies and other resources.  It's not just about the problem ex, it is also about ways to ensure the children have access to long term counseling, a sense of safety and stability at home, and learning how to develop and hold on to validating and positive patterns and perspectives.

Due to the past incidents, you would be justified to record (quietly so as not to trigger overreactions) any negative encounters, that's self-protection.  It sounds like she has been used to talking and acting, especially when she thinks it isn't being documented, as though she would have no consequences.