What do I need to document?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hey everyone. First post, but I've been reading on here for a couple of years.

A little background. I strongly believe ex is BPD, narcissist and probably a couple of other diagnoses. I got tired of his craziness/accusations and verbal abuse and we divorced 1.5 yrs ago. We moved here together and have no family in this state. He said if I were divorcing him that he was leaving the state and I would have to handle the children (we have 4) on my own. The divorce went through and he moved 1 1/2 hours away with his family. The kids and I have adjusted and are doing okay. He barely worked during our marriage, but works now and I am receiving some child support.

He has never had the kids for an overnight even though we have a shared custody agreement. He will call them but hasn't seen them in months.

I don't have his address (he won't give it). I pay medical insurance and he and I are supposed to split the bills not covered by insurance. I don't have his address or e-mail address to send him the statements for his half. Two of the kids have had some procedures this year. I try not to communicate with him much, but I recently sent him a text telling him that he needs to get his car out of my garage or I was selling it (I have filed for an abandoned title to start the process to sell it). He texted back that I can't sell his property and that if I do that he was taking me to court and telling the court that I used to sell drugs and that he had people to prove it and that he was going to make me lose my professional license and the house (even though I'm the main support for the kids and they live in this house). 

I'm not too worried about that accusation because it's not true. He actually sold drugs for a while and I did tell my lawyer that. Ex somehow willingly signed the divorce papers at the last minute so we never had to go to court with any of that.

He will ask if he can come by to see the children and I always tell him no and that he can come get them for visits if he chooses to with at least a few hours notice (I can't be around him much and would rather he come get them than staying here to visit with them). Well the other night he texted if he could come and visit the kids. I of course told him no. He was outside my house 5 minutes later (10:00 at night) and called asking if he could come in. I told him no and that I was calling the cops. The kids were oblivious to all of this going on. He blew the horn hoping the kids would hear it and go outside. They didn't hear it and he then pulled away.



Here's where I am now. I'm thinking about going back to court for the medical bills and for stricter visitation rules. He won't follow the standard schedule (I'm okay with that because I get to have them more and keep them from his craziness) so I want something in place regarding him not just showing up and demanding to visit whenever he wants to. I figure if I have to take him to court for the visits then I may as well have something in place as to how to get him the medical bills as well (even though I don't think he will pay).


We only text and occasionally talk. Are the texts submissible in court? I would rather certified mail him the medical bills or even email them but he won't give the address. Also I'm back in school and plan to move further away in a few years once I'm finished. How do I document that he never sees the kids now as my reason that he shouldn't block me from moving. I know that he will definitely try to block it if possible.

[btfly745]

Hey everyone. First post, but I've been reading on here for a couple of years.

A little background. I strongly believe ex is BPD, narcissist and probably a couple of other diagnoses. I got tired of his craziness/accusations and verbal abuse and we divorced 1.5 yrs ago. We moved here together and have no family in this state. He said if I were divorcing him that he was leaving the state and I would have to handle the children (we have 4) on my own. The divorce went through and he moved 1 1/2 hours away with his family. The kids and I have adjusted and are doing okay. He barely worked during our marriage, but works now and I am receiving some child support.

He has never had the kids for an overnight even though we have a shared custody agreement. He will call them but hasn't seen them in months.

I don't have his address (he won't give it). I pay medical insurance and he and I are supposed to split the bills not covered by insurance. I don't have his address or e-mail address to send him the statements for his half. Two of the kids have had some procedures this year. I try not to communicate with him much, but I recently sent him a text telling him that he needs to get his car out of my garage or I was selling it (I have filed for an abandoned title to start the process to sell it). He texted back that I can't sell his property and that if I do that he was taking me to court and telling the court that I used to sell drugs and that he had people to prove it and that he was going to make me lose my professional license and the house (even though I'm the main support for the kids and they live in this house). 

I'm not too worried about that accusation because it's not true. He actually sold drugs for a while and I did tell my lawyer that. Ex somehow willingly signed the divorce papers at the last minute so we never had to go to court with any of that.

He will ask if he can come by to see the children and I always tell him no and that he can come get them for visits if he chooses to with at least a few hours notice (I can't be around him much and would rather he come get them than staying here to visit with them). Well the other night he texted if he could come and visit the kids. I of course told him no. He was outside my house 5 minutes later (10:00 at night) and called asking if he could come in. I told him no and that I was calling the cops. The kids were oblivious to all of this going on. He blew the horn hoping the kids would hear it and go outside. They didn't hear it and he then pulled away.



Here's where I am now. I'm thinking about going back to court for the medical bills and for stricter visitation rules. He won't follow the standard schedule (I'm okay with that because I get to have them more and keep them from his craziness) so I want something in place regarding him not just showing up and demanding to visit whenever he wants to. I figure if I have to take him to court for the visits then I may as well have something in place as to how to get him the medical bills as well (even though I don't think he will pay).


We only text and occasionally talk. Are the texts submissible in court? I would rather certified mail him the medical bills or even email them but he won't give the address. Also I'm back in school and plan to move further away in a few years once I'm finished. How do I document that he never sees the kids now as my reason that he shouldn't block me from moving. I know that he will definitely try to block it if possible.

[ugghh]

Btfly (assuming that is short for butterfly and not buttfly) welcome to the boards and thank you for sharing your story.

It sounds like your ex has a lot going on not the least of which is immaturity.  I am going to suggest that you follow the standard practices for someone who is not not yet divorced.  You mention that you have a shared custody arrangement - that can mean a lot of things depending on what state / country you are located.  Can you share some more of the specific language of the agreeement (of course without revealing any identifying information)?


First and foremost you need to get away from talking /texting him and get him moved over to email.  Phone and text conversations tend to break down into he said/she said in front of a judge.  Emails are a great way to retain time stamped documentation of your efforts as well as a lack of response by your ex.

You need to make time to have a frank conversation with your attorney about which is the better approach - Option A - move forward asap with motion to change custody based on the time since the divorce, which of course your can document with simple log indicating which nights the kids are with you versus with him.  I just made a simple spreadsheet listing each day of the year down the side and each kid was a column.  I filled in the appropriate cell with a number 1 if the kids spent the night.  or Option B - slow play it a little bit and build documentation of his erratic behavior, which is used to go to court and request that he be ordered put all communication through program like Our Family Wizard. 

Ex sounds like quite the deadbeat, however at the same time your year and half with no overnights by him really works in your favor as establishing a status quo.  Typically courts like the status quo.  That is the name of the game you are playing - judge I know what the decree said, but here is what is actually happening.  It's working, the kids are doing well, and while I don't want to cut the kids off from their father, I would like to be able to minimize disruptions to their routine.

[btfly745]

^^^

Thanks for replying.

By shared custody, I meant our state's standard visitation agreement. There's one to follow if the parents live in the same city and another if living more than 50 miles apart. It spells out exactly who gets the kids on which days, exact time they are to be back, birthdays, holidays, school breaks etc. I gave him a copy of it when we were going through the divorce.

I think I'll do the log like you said, including showing up at my house whenever he feels like it.

I'm not sure how to get him to go to email. He has harassed me via text and I have thought about asking the court if I can block his number from calling my phone since there is no pressing need to talk since he doesn't ever seem to want the kids for visits anyway.

[ForeverDad]

He has never had the kids for an overnight even though we have a shared custody agreement. He will call them but hasn't seen them in months... .

He will ask if he can come by to see the children and I always tell him no and that he can come get them for visits if he chooses to with at least a few hours notice (I can't be around him much and would rather he come get them than staying here to visit with them). Well the other night, nearly 10 pm, he texted if he could come and visit the kids. I of course told him no.

Good boundary.  If you don't want him in your home, that is a good, valid, firm boundary.  :)on't let him or anyone else guilt you about your justified boundaries.

I don't have his address (he won't give it). I pay medical insurance and he and I are supposed to split the bills not covered by insurance. I don't have his address or e-mail address to send him the statements for his half. Two of the kids have had some procedures this year. I try not to communicate with him much, but I recently sent him a text telling him that he needs to get his car out of my garage or I was selling it (I have filed for an abandoned title to start the process to sell it). He texted back that I can't sell his property and that if I do that he was taking me to court... .

Wouldn't a PI be able to track him down?  And of course document your delivery of anything you send him.  He may later deny ever getting it.  And in court he may claim you notified him after the bills were too old or 'stale' to collect.  Your defense is that he had refused to give any way to contact him for service.

Side point, doesn't court require him to always have a valid method to contact him or his attorney on record with them until the children age out of the system?  While court is unlikely to penalize him sternly for not doing so, you trying to get his address is nothing he can oppose in court.

As for the car, likely it is bluff and bluster, like the divorce case was?  This might be his way to keep in contact with you, known also as 'negative engagement'.

I'm thinking about going back to court for the medical bills and for stricter visitation rules. He won't follow the standard schedule (I'm okay with that because I get to have them more and keep them from his craziness) so I want something in place regarding him not just showing up and demanding to visit whenever he wants to. I figure if I have to take him to court for the visits then I may as well have something in place as to how to get him the medical bills as well (even though I don't think he will pay).

We only text and occasionally talk. Are the texts submissible in court? I would rather certified mail him the medical bills or even email them but he won't give the address.

These days texts are becoming a fact of life and so have had a greater presence in testimony.  He or his lawyer may challenge the integrity of copies of texts.  Check with your local court or lawyers how they handle texts as evidence.  Just as important as documentation is having a long term strategy for success.

I'm not sure how to get him to go to email. He has harassed me via text and I have thought about asking the court if I can block his number from calling my phone since there is no pressing need to talk since he doesn't ever seem to want the kids for visits anyway.

What is reasonable is to instruct him to mail or email you rather than text, that texting must be reserved for emergencies only.  However, even that is not a boundary he would respect.  Get an idea what local professional do in such instances.  We in peer support are great for experiences, suggestions, ideas and strategies but you still need specific local legal advice.

Also I'm back in school and plan to move further away in a few years once I'm finished. How do I document that he never sees the kids now as my reason that he shouldn't block me from moving. I know that he will definitely try to block it if possible.

His claim would be lame, considering that he moved away already.  I doubt any court would block it, but looking ahead, make sure any return to court gives you as much parental or custodial authority as possible.  Often we can't get sole custody unless the other parent is substantively abusive, neglectful or endangering of the children.  (I did get sole custody based partly on her obstruction and partly on her 'disparaging' father in front of the child.)  But don't let that discourage you from trying to get the next best status... .Decision Making or Tie Breaker.  It is very nearly full custody except in name.  (Courts are more willing to grant this than sole custody since it doesn't make it look like the other parent 'lost'.)  With DM or TB you may have to make the attempt to get him to agree on major issues but whether or not he agrees you can thereafter proceed.  Yes, he could challenge it in court but court is very unlikely to agree with his distorted perspective as long as you haven't been unreasonable and are acting in the best interests of the children.

[Waddams]

Couple points of advice:

-Email only contact.  No calls or texts, unless it's for a visit conforming to the court orders and he's saying something like "I'm 10 minutes away".  And if he is abusive and harassing you through texts, just block his number and advise him via an email it's the only way for him to contact you now because he's blocked to cut off the bullsh!t via phone.  Regardless of all else, you have a right to protect yourself and set up boundaries against that crap.  Just do it and let him explain to a judge why he should be allowed to harass you later if he's dumb enough to push it that far.

-For documenting past texts, I have an app called "SMS Backup".  It's a free download from Google Playstore.  It backs up all my texts to a GMAIL account.  It's great.  It's free.  It's a wonderful way to backup texts and later print them out for evidence/documentation.

-The car - you've told him your intention to get rid of it.  Don't bring it up again.  Just follow the process to get rid of it.  Or even claim it as abandoned property and drive it yourself!  You don't need to engage him anymore.

-The threats of false claims against you - he's just blowing hot air at this point.  If he actually does make a claim, it's obvious it is retaliation for you not giving into his controlling crap.  After all, if he were genuine in his concern, then why didn't he bring it up in the divorce?  Or since then?  Why does it only come out after you tell him to pound sand?  He's simply escalating his harassment and trying to break down your boundaries using threats.  Document that threats (save texts, etc.) and move on.

-I don't about you guys, but I've been able to track down hordes of people online.  With a little bit of Google-Fu, it's not hard.  If you really want his address, you can likely find it.

-Regarding collecting his share of medical expenses - just scan copies of the bills and attach them to emails.  Send whatever you want reimbursement for.  Send it with a delivery and read receipt so you can prove he received and read it.

-Otherwise just ignore anything that is him trying to get a reaction out of you using fear-obligation-guilt and live your life.  Don't even respond to him and his trying to come and go and visit as he pleases.  Silence.  He's an adult, he can read the orders and knows how visitation is supposed to work.  It's up to him and you don't have to argue with him about it.

So in short, set your boundaries, hold them, and let him act out.  It will be tough at first, but it gets easier, and eventually, they realize they have no hold on you any longer and they find new victims. 

[rarsweet]

If it is court ordered that he pay child support he has to keep his address on file. You could ask foe support to be taken out of his pay and then he has to give child support enforcement his address

[btfly745]

He has never had the kids for an overnight even though we have a shared custody agreement. He will call them but hasn't seen them in months... .

He will ask if he can come by to see the children and I always tell him no and that he can come get them for visits if he chooses to with at least a few hours notice (I can't be around him much and would rather he come get them than staying here to visit with them). Well the other night, nearly 10 pm, he texted if he could come and visit the kids. I of course told him no.

Good boundary.  If you don't want him in your home, that is a good, valid, firm boundary.  :)on't let him or anyone else guilt you about your justified boundaries.

I don't have his address (he won't give it). I pay medical insurance and he and I are supposed to split the bills not covered by insurance. I don't have his address or e-mail address to send him the statements for his half. Two of the kids have had some procedures this year. I try not to communicate with him much, but I recently sent him a text telling him that he needs to get his car out of my garage or I was selling it (I have filed for an abandoned title to start the process to sell it). He texted back that I can't sell his property and that if I do that he was taking me to court... .

Wouldn't a PI be able to track him down?  And of course document your delivery of anything you send him.  He may later deny ever getting it.  And in court he may claim you notified him after the bills were too old or 'stale' to collect.  Your defense is that he had refused to give any way to contact him for service.

Side point, doesn't court require him to always have a valid method to contact him or his attorney on record with them until the children age out of the system?  While court is unlikely to penalize him sternly for not doing so, you trying to get his address is nothing he can oppose in court.

As for the car, likely it is bluff and bluster, like the divorce case was?  This might be his way to keep in contact with you, known also as 'negative engagement'.

I'm thinking about going back to court for the medical bills and for stricter visitation rules. He won't follow the standard schedule (I'm okay with that because I get to have them more and keep them from his craziness) so I want something in place regarding him not just showing up and demanding to visit whenever he wants to. I figure if I have to take him to court for the visits then I may as well have something in place as to how to get him the medical bills as well (even though I don't think he will pay).

We only text and occasionally talk. Are the texts submissible in court? I would rather certified mail him the medical bills or even email them but he won't give the address.

These days texts are becoming a fact of life and so have had a greater presence in testimony.  He or his lawyer may challenge the integrity of copies of texts.  Check with your local court or lawyers how they handle texts as evidence.  Just as important as documentation is having a long term strategy for success.

I'm not sure how to get him to go to email. He has harassed me via text and I have thought about asking the court if I can block his number from calling my phone since there is no pressing need to talk since he doesn't ever seem to want the kids for visits anyway.

What is reasonable is to instruct him to mail or email you rather than text, that texting must be reserved for emergencies only.  However, even that is not a boundary he would respect.  Get an idea what local professional do in such instances.  We in peer support are great for experiences, suggestions, ideas and strategies but you still need specific local legal advice.

Also I'm back in school and plan to move further away in a few years once I'm finished. How do I document that he never sees the kids now as my reason that he shouldn't block me from moving. I know that he will definitely try to block it if possible.

His claim would be lame, considering that he moved away already.  I doubt any court would block it, but looking ahead, make sure any return to court gives you as much parental or custodial authority as possible.  Often we can't get sole custody unless the other parent is substantively abusive, neglectful or endangering of the children.  (I did get sole custody based partly on her obstruction and partly on her 'disparaging' father in front of the child.)  But don't let that discourage you from trying to get the next best status... .Decision Making or Tie Breaker.  It is very nearly full custody except in name.  (Courts are more willing to grant this than sole custody since it doesn't make it look like the other parent 'lost'.)  With DM or TB you may have to make the attempt to get him to agree on major issues but whether or not he agrees you can thereafter proceed.  Yes, he could challenge it in court but court is very unlikely to agree with his distorted perspective as long as you haven't been unreasonable and are acting in the best interests of the children.

I allowed him here the first Christmas we divorced. He stayed overnight on the couch that Christmas Eve, otherwise he creeps me out when he has come over. Always seemingly intentionally bumping into me - literally trying to touch me.

I'm not sure if the divorce system has his correct address on file. He was living here when we divorced, then moved in with his mom for a few weeks until getting his own place. He wants the car here because it's an antique and I have a garage. He said he would get it when he got a house and garage, but I'm tired of looking at it and want my garage space back. Lots of bluffing about everything on his part.

I've got a meeting set-up next week with my lawyer to review some things and will bring this communication issue up as well.

[btfly745]

Couple points of advice:

-Email only contact.  No calls or texts, unless it's for a visit conforming to the court orders and he's saying something like "I'm 10 minutes away".  And if he is abusive and harassing you through texts, just block his number and advise him via an email it's the only way for him to contact you now because he's blocked to cut off the bullsh!t via phone.  Regardless of all else, you have a right to protect yourself and set up boundaries against that crap.  Just do it and let him explain to a judge why he should be allowed to harass you later if he's dumb enough to push it that far.

-For documenting past texts, I have an app called "SMS Backup".  It's a free download from Google Playstore.  It backs up all my texts to a GMAIL account.  It's great.  It's free.  It's a wonderful way to backup texts and later print them out for evidence/documentation.

-The car - you've told him your intention to get rid of it.  Don't bring it up again.  Just follow the process to get rid of it.  Or even claim it as abandoned property and drive it yourself!  You don't need to engage him anymore.

-The threats of false claims against you - he's just blowing hot air at this point.  If he actually does make a claim, it's obvious it is retaliation for you not giving into his controlling crap.  After all, if he were genuine in his concern, then why didn't he bring it up in the divorce?  Or since then?  Why does it only come out after you tell him to pound sand?  He's simply escalating his harassment and trying to break down your boundaries using threats.  Document that threats (save texts, etc.) and move on.

-I don't about you guys, but I've been able to track down hordes of people online.  With a little bit of Google-Fu, it's not hard.  If you really want his address, you can likely find it.

-Regarding collecting his share of medical expenses - just scan copies of the bills and attach them to emails.  Send whatever you want reimbursement for.  Send it with a delivery and read receipt so you can prove he received and read it.

-Otherwise just ignore anything that is him trying to get a reaction out of you using fear-obligation-guilt and live your life.  Don't even respond to him and his trying to come and go and visit as he pleases.  Silence.  He's an adult, he can read the orders and knows how visitation is supposed to work.  It's up to him and you don't have to argue with him about it.

So in short, set your boundaries, hold them, and let him act out.  It will be tough at first, but it gets easier, and eventually, they realize they have no hold on you any longer and they find new victims. 

I don't have his email address. I have one that he used when we were married, but I'm not sure if he still uses it or not.

I wish the vehicle were something I could drive. It's an antique and just kind of sitting in my garage. He lives in apartment and I'm sure he just wants to kind of leave it here until he finds somewhere else to put it. I'm just tired of looking at the thing and want my garage space for my own car. He will be shocked if I were to sell it, but he's not leaving me any choice.

I located a couple of addresses for him online. I think one is his mom's. One of my daughter's sees a specialist in the town he lives in and we like to go shopping there a couple times a year, so we are there every few months. We are going next week for some back-to-school shopping and I'll go by the address that I think is his to see if his vehicle may be there.

This setting boundary stuff is like raising another kid. I've been waiting since the day I told him we were divorcing for him to find another victim and I hope it's soon. He probably figures it's easier to keep working on me and trying to get me to get back with him than it is to find someone new.

[btfly745]

If it is court ordered that he pay child support he has to keep his address on file. You could ask foe support to be taken out of his pay and then he has to give child support enforcement his address

He wasn't working when we divorced, he owned a business that he always said was doing well. We argued about money a lot while married because he always said he was giving me a large amount of cash each month and always wanted to know what I was doing with it. In reality he was giving me about 10-15% of the total monthly bills each month. He and I somehow agreed on an amount each month in the divorce papers that he was to give me. After the divorce he moved out and actually got a real job. He didn't give me any cash for several months and I then went to our local DHR to see if they could assist me with getting payments. I didn't have his address or place of employment but they were able to track him down pretty quickly even in another state. They couldn't give me the info about his employment or address, but payments have been automatically out of his paychecks for a year now.

Last month I got papers from DHR about a modification requested by him due to a decrease in his income. I've been emailing the caseworker and she said just to bring my own paystubs, daycare expenses to court with me.

I have just emailed her back asking if a modification really has to go to court and if it's something I need to bring a lawyer with me or not.

I've contacted my lawyer to meet with her just in case I need her in court and to go over all this communication, visits, medical expenses stuff.

[btfly745]

For those of you that have been divorced or separated for a while, does the nonsense ever end?

It's getting to be exhausting. All I want from his is to pay child support, arrange for visits for the children if he wants it and to leave me alone. I didn't think I'd be able to do everything that I'm doing by myself, but I've managed and it's working out okay. I'm certain that he didn't think I could do it either and that I'd be calling and begging him to come back to help me by now. I'm happy, the kids have adjusted okay and because I'm busier than ever, I don't have time for his craziness. Hopefully some of this will be resolved when we go to court. Like most of these people I've read about on here, he can be charismatic. I hope the judge is able to see through his ways and doesn't start believing all that he says.

I have an excellent lawyer so I know it's just a matter of me being prepared and having everything documented like I should. He didn't have a lawyer for our divorce (couldn't afford one, but kept bluffing that his lawyer was going to pull up all kinds of things about me), so I'm not sure if he even has a lawyer now.