Borderline language of love

[Harlygirl]

When they say to us "I love you" ... .how should the non interpret that in terms of the pwBPD's language?   Does this really mean "I need you and don't want to be abandoned by you"? How is the emotion of "love" expressed by the borderline ?

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[EaglesJuju]

I think that when a borderline says that they love you, they really do. It is easy to forget sometimes that things a pwBPD says can be taken at face value. It is like you get so used to the opposite meaning of things.

Love is a broad term for anyone really. I do not think there is one definition or construct of love. Somewhere in that construct, "I need you and please do not abandon me," is included. In a sense, I think everyone needs someone else or does not want to be abandoned. PwBPD tend to be extreme with this though. 

Are you questioning if your pwBPD loves you?

[Harlygirl]

Yes... .I am... .and thank you for responding.   He lied to me about much of his past... .he says... .because of his "selfish fear of losing me" ... .He also says he "loves me unconditionally". I believe that unconditional love exists within the context of a parent/child relationship... .obviously a relationship between two consenting adults is more complicated and yes , conditional in that sense.  Is this his way of saying he wants me to love him "unconditionally" ?  And how do I know that he can tell the difference between "love" and "need" ?

[rotiroti]

Yes... .I am... .and thank you for responding.   He lied to me about much of his past... .he says... .because of his "selfish fear of losing me" ... .He also says he "loves me unconditionally". I believe that unconditional love exists within the context of a parent/child relationship... .obviously a relationship between two consenting adults is more complicated and yes , conditional in that sense.  Is this his way of saying he wants me to love him "unconditionally" ?  And how do I know that he can tell the difference between "love" and "need" ?

100% agree with EaglesJuju

That's just the thing, for them 'need' can really feel like 'love'

You mentioned something interesting about a parent-child bond, as pwBPD love like a child would. A love based on need... .and like a child struggles with object constancy. Out of sight, out of mind... .or rather the love they feel is what they really feel, but it can be swept away by the next set of strong emotions.

[EaglesJuju]

He lied to me about much of his past... .he says... .because of his "selfish fear of losing me" ... .He also says he "loves me unconditionally". I believe that unconditional love exists within the context of a parent/child relationship... .obviously a relationship between two consenting adults is more complicated and yes , conditional in that sense.  Is this his way of saying he wants me to love him "unconditionally" ?  And how do I know that he can tell the difference between "love" and "need" ?

I do think that he is afraid of losing you. That is a common theme amongst pwBPD. It is factored in with self loathing and very poor self esteem/self worth.  I interpret his meaning of unconditional love as loving despite of flaws. Someone with issues with self-loathing and poor self-esteem think that they are unlovable, worthless, a horrible person etc., he wants you to love him "unconditionally" with all his baggage. From my experience, it is more of a need for you to show a pwBPD that they are lovable or worthwhile. It is a need of constant validation that is provided by you. Obviously no one can live up to these standards, but I do not think that gets in the way of their ability to love. Think about it this way, a pwBPD has such intense emotions, especially anger and sadness, why wouldn't they have the same intense emotions for love?  In my opinion, when a pwBPD loves, they love wholeheartedly.

I do not want to generalize and say that all pwBPD love this way. On the other hand, generalizing that all pwBPD are incapable of love is a fallacy too. You would know better than anyone if he loves you. Base it off your instinct and your relationship with him.  What does your instinct tell you?

[lovers knot]

I agree wholeheartedly with all of which was said here.

My dear friend with BPD said that she loved me ("I love you" or "I love you, too" as well, and I do believe that they definitely mean it in the "normalizing" sense of the word, but I suppose as was mentioned, it varies from a pwBPD to the next.

To have someone say, "I love you" or "I miss you very much!" but keep you in Silent Treatment/Ignoring/Split Black, is like a knife slowly turning in one's chest, initially, which is usually based on personalizing her emotions/actions, versus coming to realize that this is a part of their "normal activity," etc., etc. Anyway, I've had some of the sweetest words ever spoken to me in my life (by anyone!) said to my dear friend with BPD, but now I've been split, I've been ignored, mostly because of triggering her by engulfing her (which wouldn't have happened had I been more aware of BPD, because I feel like I would have communicated differently, behaved differently, and so on, which I have learned from and have "equipped" and have better prepared myself for next time, if that comes, which I pray does, because I care and love this person very dearly).

The swing from one extreme to the next--"I love you!" to Silence/whatever it may be, is so common, but I truly do believe that they have the immense capacity to be supremely loving and passionate, but on the other hand, the same goes for the flip-side of that token, unfortunately.

The more I learn and educate myself, the more and more compassionate I become, and in fact, the more I've grown to interact and communicate with random strangers in a greater capacity than before. One never really knows what is going on with someone. Things may appear hunky-dory with the external composition, but the inward cosmos is quite a complex matter; a lot more people are "battling" than we think.

All of that to say, yes! The "I love you" should be taken seriously for the most part, but like someone else said, one knows in one's heart if it is genuine or not, unless one is merely a mass expert manipulator and can put on the illusion well, but I think that generally a person "just knows" if it is genuine or not.

[Harlygirl]

Thank you all for your thoughts on this... .greatly appreciated

[LivingWBPDWife]

Harlygirl,

I would be really careful here. Just like non-BPDs, "I love you" covers a lot of ground. And we all wouldn't be with a BPD if we stayed with the first person that loved us! So, love turns to hate many times. That said, for the BPD this is different, "love" to them is "real", but its not what we think of love exactly, how can it? Their love is based on an idealized version that makes them happy. The moment we fall out of that category they HATE us. And want us out of their life.

So, IMO the BPD is not lying more or less that anyone else is when they say they love you, although, I think we can state that BPDs lie A LOT and this is part of being BPD. But, if we push that aside for a moment, "I love you" to a BPD really does mean something else to a non. And you are going to get continually hurt if your expectation of what someone that "loves" you should do in any given situation, is NOT what a BPD is going to do -- remember, they can't, by definition love/hate anyone more than THEMSELVES, they are the alpha and omega of their universe, you can never be #1, NEVER.

Alas, you will never be get that deep safe, absolute passionate love you want from a BPD, at best it will be an interpretation of love and worst yet, you might embellish it and project your own feelings. My wife "loves" me, but its a type of "alien" love if that makes sense, not the kind of love I have ever had before, and surely not what I need. A BPD will always make you feel empty, remember they can't empathize, so there are no layers to their "love". They just love you or don't, but not sure what it means to themselves in any practical sense that you can measure.

So, don't get lost, chances are they will close the door, turn off the light and run away if it makes them happy.

[Ceruleanblue]

I'd like to know that too. Just today, while apologizing(the apologies are nice when they are genuine, but they too are getting old), he told me he doesn't know if he knows how to love anyone. I guess he forgets how over the top he loves his kids. I love my kids too, but not to the point that it's totally enmeshed and dysfunctional, and I can't ever speak my mind with them!

Maybe the more extreme cases of pwBPD truly don't know how to love? My BPDh is mostly high functioning at work(at least lately), but I consider him low functioning at home. I think that his idea of love is skewed. To me, love is about actions, not just saying you love someone. You can't just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk, and I've said that to BPDh many times, and I'm sure it really makes him mad, as does almost view I express. He's in a place where he has almost zero tolerance for me.

[Jessica84]

My BPDbf stopped saying "I love you". After a few breakups, the L word must've scared him. But he has actually shown it more since he stopped saying it. He used to end every call with it, text it, or say it constantly. Of course I'd like to hear it again, at least once in awhile, but I'm happy to not hear it if it means I get to experience it. I've learned to ignore his words and look more at his actions. Also helps to validate him better if I don't get too stuck on his words, whether they're nice words or mean ones.

[LivingWBPDWife]

"To me, love is about actions, not just saying you love someone."

This right here is one of the key aspects of BPDs, they live in their minds and don't understand that reality is in the "world" -- So, BEFORE I knew my wife was BPD this was a constant source of problems, I would say, I help you, I listen, I put work off, I support you, I cook, I clean, I pay the bills, I initiate all affection and sex, etc. And I would be like, tell me ONE thing you do to express ANY kind of love or interest?

Shrugs shoulders ... ."I don't know".

So, I would explain, being married is a REAL thing, the word itself says it all a "marriage" is a partnership, and we help each other. But, how can we both be happy if its 100% one sided? And again, do you understand why my feelings are hurt?

Shrugs shoulders ... ."I don't know".

Its BECAUSE you never actually ":)O" anything -- you might SAY "I love you", but you never DO anything, thus, there is no effort, no sacrifice, nothing. So, what measure can I attach to you "love" for me?

Shrugs shoulders ... ."I don't know".

This is why you can never feel loved or be fulfilled by a BPD, its just mechanically impossible, they don't have the tools.

It was my b-day a couple months ago, and for her b-day, we have a b-day week or 2, so for 1-2 weeks, its presents, dinners, whatever she wants, and I make a list all year of comments and things she wants for presents, or 2 do, whatever.

My b-day comes around and she doesn't say happy b-day, didn't buy anything, do anything, plan anything, and her excuse was... ."I don't know what to get you, and you don't like anything, and you can buy anything yourself".

I am like that's NOT the point, the point is I don't buy myself anything, so if you were paying attention, maybe get me a game for my PS4 that I mentioned, or just make me dinner and back rub, or ANYTHING that shows you took TIME and EFFORT to think about ME.

This is the problem -- BPDs can't do this, because the moment they do they start thinking of ways they will be invalidated -- they will do something stupid, pick the wrong present, not make a good dinner, rub your back wrong --

WOW -- imagine your brain doing that 24/7 with EVERYTHING -- this is what its like in their heads.

So, they really have no language of love that I can tell -- they don't understand it.

But, they can EMULATE it -- my wife is a copy cat, if her friends take a strip tease class she will, if her friends while out are kissy kissy then she will, but she is terrorfied to do anything herself for fear of invalidation and rejection.