Hello from Germany

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone,

I stumbled onto this message board (I live in Germany) as I have not been in touch with my mother for 7 months  now - she tried to call me yesterday several times and as I didnt answer the phone, she left a long voicemail on my husbands phone (thats what she does - she gets EVERYONE involved) saying that I am her daughter and that she wants to make "peace".

Well, I´ve heard all that before... .

Anyway, I feel a lot better for not being in touch with her and I dont miss her (I miss not having a loving mum), but the guilt of causing her pain is creeping up on me... .

So, I searched the internet and found this- and I have to say... .I always knew there was something "wrong" with my mum, but reading through this message board... .its been a complete eye opener - so many of the descriptions used on this message board are exactly what I would use to describe my mum.

I feel comforted to know that I am not alone in this struggle. Its emotionally overwhelming and I am just at a stage in my life where I cannot carry the weight of my toxic relationship with my mum anymore - I KNOW that, but the FEELING bit of it is what I still struggle with... .

I hope its ok for me to join from across the ocean?

This has already been so helpful! Thanks


Romiha

[Romiha]

Hi everyone,

I stumbled onto this message board (I live in Germany) as I have not been in touch with my mother for 7 months  now - she tried to call me yesterday several times and as I didnt answer the phone, she left a long voicemail on my husbands phone (thats what she does - she gets EVERYONE involved) saying that I am her daughter and that she wants to make "peace".

Well, I´ve heard all that before... .

Anyway, I feel a lot better for not being in touch with her and I dont miss her (I miss not having a loving mum), but the guilt of causing her pain is creeping up on me... .

So, I searched the internet and found this- and I have to say... .I always knew there was something "wrong" with my mum, but reading through this message board... .its been a complete eye opener - so many of the descriptions used on this message board are exactly what I would use to describe my mum.

I feel comforted to know that I am not alone in this struggle. Its emotionally overwhelming and I am just at a stage in my life where I cannot carry the weight of my toxic relationship with my mum anymore - I KNOW that, but the FEELING bit of it is what I still struggle with... .

I hope its ok for me to join from across the ocean?

This has already been so helpful! Thanks


Romiha

[Flintridge]

Hi Romiha,

Welcome! I'm new here too and I can relate so much to your post. I think it's normal to feel guilty because we're loving, emotionally healthy people. But I think it's best you protect yourself and remember your own needs. It really does help to find others on here who understand what we're going through. Some of my friends just don't understand and I don't expect them to, as their mothers aren't suffering from this condition. I'm currently low contact with my mom but I can completely understand your decision to go no contact. Sometimes it's for the best.

[indifferent]

Welcome!  I also just joined yesterday.  I think it's very normal to feel guilty, it's something I struggle with all the time too.  I'm also trying to set up healthy boundaries with her as I cannot do LC or NC, and I constantly have this feeling of guilt for standing up to her and doing what I know is right for me.  It's ridiculous that I feel this way as an adult.

Unfortunately I don't have any advice as I'm still trying to figure everything out myself.  Just wanted to let you know you're not alone and wanted to wish you the best of luck!

[Romiha]

Hey guys

thanks for getting back to me.

Just a little bit of background on my relationship with my mother.

My parents got divorced in 1988 after my mum found out my dad was having an affair (he has since been married to that woman) and for the past 27 years my mum has not gotten over this.

She constantly talks about my dad and his wife and to this day, their failed marriage impacts on my life.

My wedding had to be planned around my mums sentiments, my husband and his mum (my MIL, whom my mum "befriended", ie. calls her every week to the point where my MIL is just annoyed and its embarrassing for me) have to listen to my mum talk about my dad.

Its always about her and her suffering.

It was weird reading some of the other peoples comments about their parents... .my mum does the "I am innocent and have been nailed to the cross like Jesus" or the "If I die tomorrow, its ok for me, because you and your brother are grown up now" too. When she calls me on the phone, she will happily talk at me for 2 hours if I´d let her - you can put the phone down and brush your teeth, she doesnt even notice, because she is unable to have a  conversation, she just talks for the sake of talking... .

On the other hand, she is very active in church and is like a samaritan who helps those in need... .the people who dont know her well are always like "your mum is so amazing"... .if they only knew... .

Ive tried to have LC and have asked her not to call me 3x a week, I´ve also tried to set boundaries about not wanting her to talk about my dad with me or my husband or my MIL... .she does it for a month and then falls back into her old ways... .then I have to set boundaries again... and so its been going on and on and on... .

Before I had NC, we´d used to meet maybe once a month - and I was always passively aggressive to her - when she would come up to me to give me a hug, I would not reciprocate, when she´d tell me that she loves me, I couldnt say it back and I would get annoyed at anything she said...

So, all in all, not healthy at all.

And I´m now realising that our relationship is broken beyond repair - I cant forgive her for what she has done and continues to do and we just clash all the time.

I´ve gone NC after she told me that my grandma (my dads mother) told her at the time they were trying to conceive me that I would probably be "mentally retarded" (my mum had to have hormone treatment to conceive my brother and me) - even if my grandma did say that, why would she have to tell me that (her answer to this: "you guys are never on my side".

It´s always about whose side my brother and I are on - her side, or my dads side... .

She´s still wrapped up in her marriage breakup and basically lives in the past - that is her choice, not mine. I´ve tried to set boundaries, she doesnt respect them- again her choice... .

Sorry for the rant!

I would love to hear your stories!

Much love!

[Sarah girl]

Hello!

I can totally relate to having a mom who has never come to terms with her failed marriage. My parents divorced after 37 years of unhappy marriage. It has been over 15 years now and my mom is still reeling over it. She has cut herself off from everyone she used to know and clings to us (her children).

I can also relate to her telling you about hurtful things that she claims your grandma said when you were conceived. My mom told me that when I was born, my grandma (dad's mom) told her that I was going to be a very short person with crooked teeth and bulging eyes. I think that's a horrible form of alienation. I also think my mom saying hurtful things about me by quoting others is her way of injuring me without having to take responsibility. As far as I'm concerned, it's still an attack and you are right to be upset. It took me many years to realize that this was her way of making me mistrustful of others and generally insecure about myself.

I have gone LC with my mom. It's been very freeing. The space has given me the opportunity to take a step back and come to terms with a lot of things. She still tries to bait me with inflammatory statements. I usually remain passive or neutral. When she really starts pushing it, I simply tell her to "stop it" and then I change the subject. Our conversations are much shorter now. It's usually limited to pleasantries with a couple of attempts by her to erode my confidence and pick at my insecurities. She'll say something like "Have you spoken to your two-faced aunt? You know she doesn't really care about you, right?"  When I don't take the bait, she gives up and really has nothing else to say to me.

I also realize that our relationship is broken beyond repair. I don't think that our relationship was ever one in which I was accepted or loved for who I am. It was all about what kind of purpose I could serve for her. And now that I don't try to live up to her expectations, I've noticed that I'm not much use to her anymore. It's quite eye-opening. I'm still grieving the relationship that never was. I'm also still dealing with guilt and learning how to slowly let go.

Our moms sound very similar - you have my support  

[Romiha]

Hey Sarah girl,

thanks for your response! Our mums do sound alike! I always thought that I was the only one with a "crazy" mum.

I´m sorry to hear that your mum makes hurtful comments to you! But it also sounds like you are very good at setting boundaries and are benefitting from the LC.

My mum always tries to get us (brother and me) on "her" side (as opposed to my dads/grandmas side). I think her comment about me being retarded was to make my grandma sound mean - she wants me to hate my grandma.

For my mum, nothing is more important than her pain and having her children on her side. She will happily say things that are likely to stress me out/hurt me... .as long as it serves her purpose (making grandma look bad), my mum doesnt care.

And thats where my hate for her stems from - how could you put your broken marriage (they got divorced in 1988) above your daughters feelings?

But this is something that I will probably (hopefully) never understand.

I´ve told her a million times that she will lose me, if she continues and she has continued... .

You  mentioned feeling guilty... .What is your guilt about? The LC?

I always feel guilty for hurting my mum by going NC, I feel sorry for her because she has alienated a lot of people (like your mum has), but then I always ask myself why I dont feel sorry for myself?

All of this is certainly a journey and I think what you said is true - we need to grieve for the relationships we never had, will never have... .

I can only dito your last comment! You have my support too!

[Flintridge]

I can relate to so much of what you have said Romiha. My parents are divorced as well as everything is a competition with my dad. My mom used to always speak badly of my dad until one day I got tired of it and told her that he wasn't my ex-husband and I didn't appreciate her speaking poorly of him. She has since stopped.

I have had to set boundaries over and over again too, it gets tiring doesn't it? It's like they just don't learn, or at least don't want to and are hoping you'll cave.

I think it's normal to not feel warm and fuzzy when you see your mom. I can really relate to this, I feel guilty about it sometimes but it's just not safe to get overly close to her. She'll say she love us so much but her actions don't align. I often feel like I can't really trust her because she won't have my best interest at heart.

[Sarah girl]

Hello Romiha!

You  mentioned feeling guilty... .What is your guilt about? The LC?

I always feel guilty for hurting my mum by going NC, I feel sorry for her because she has alienated a lot of people (like your mum has), but then I always ask myself why I dont feel sorry for myself?

My guilt stems from not living up to or wanting to live up to her needs. One moment I feel angry and resentful and the next, I feel like I'm a terrible daughter. She always told me that her life is empty and her only reason to live is her children. On some level, I think I'm still struggling with that guilt of depriving her of her reason to live. Somehow, if I go away, she will stop wanting to live and it will be all my fault. This is what that little kid inside me is trying to work out these days.

There have been so many messages engrained in me over the years that I still live by without even being aware of them.  The LC situation has helped me to become aware of these childhood beliefs and deal with them in a more mature and rational way. I see now that I'm not my mom's reason to exist. I'm angry that she placed that kind of responsibility on me from a very young age and kept challenging me to prove my loyalty to her.

I also now see that her hate-talk of others was her way of trying to get me and my brother on "her side". When she senses that I don't hate my relatives as much as she would like, she interprets it as disloyalty. One time, my daughter asked her about my dad and she went into a psychotic rage accusing me of talking to my children about their grandfather. She did this during Christmas dinner in front of guests. My daughter was 7 at the time.

The dinner was at her house and she had really outdone herself trying to make it a happy Christmas. So there's also the guilt of not appreciating all that she does for us. I have a hard time accepting anything from her. I know if I do, I will live to regret it. It's very tough because she does try to be nice. All of these mixed feelings  just add to the guilt.

[daughterandmom]

Hi Romiha 

Welcome! I am so happy you found this board. It's really amazing to be able to read people's stories that feel so familiar isn't it? I am pretty new here too,  but I have found so much inspiration and support and am excited to try to support others also.

Its always about her and her suffering.

This pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

Ive tried to have LC and have asked her not to call me 3x a week, I´ve also tried to set boundaries about not wanting her to talk about my dad with me or my husband or my MIL... .she does it for a month and then falls back into her old ways... .then I have to set boundaries again... and so its been going on and on and on... .

I really relate to this. My mother also has used me as her therapist with nonstop inappropriate conversations about my dad ever since I was a little girl. I was never able to set boundaries with her about this, any attempt resulted in tears and anger over my selfishness for not caring about her feelings after everything shes given up for me. And how she has no one else.

I was always passively aggressive to her - when she would come up to me to give me a hug, I would not reciprocate, when she´d tell me that she loves me, I couldnt say it back and I would get annoyed at anything she said...

This is where we are now. I rarely see her, but when I do at family gatherings or whatnot she insists on hugging me and saying she loves me. All I feel is disgust and repulsion. Then later so much guilt. I start to wonder if the dynamic really is my fault- if I could be loving and kind maybe I could stop this. I mean how can I blame her for being hurt by me when I can't summon up any feelings of love at all and she feels like all she's ever done is love me?

And Sarah girl, what you said here:

I don't think that our relationship was ever one in which I was accepted or loved for who I am. It was all about what kind of purpose I could serve for her. And now that I don't try to live up to her expectations, I've noticed that I'm not much use to her anymore. It's quite eye-opening. I'm still grieving the relationship that never was. I'm also still dealing with guilt and learning how to slowly let go.

I'm so sorry. You have my empathy    It really sucks. I am finding out the same thing. Once I stopped letting her dump all her emotions on me and resisted conversations about my dad she has no interest in talking to me. After not talking for quite a while I have started trying to facebook message her every week or so but she shows no interest in anything to do with me or my kids. And gets weirdly defensive to surface inquiries about her. She just usually answers with a sentence or two about how awful she is feeling, but when I try to be empathetic my attempt is met with angry suspicion.

My guilt stems from not living up to or wanting to live up to her needs. One moment I feel angry and resentful and the next, I feel like I'm a terrible daughter. She always told me that her life is empty and her only reason to live is her children. On some level, I think I'm still struggling with that guilt of depriving her of her reason to live. Somehow, if I go away, she will stop wanting to live and it will be all my fault. This is what that little kid inside me is trying to work out these days.

So many times she said I was her only reason to live. It's such a weighty burden to hear as a child. But sadly I think she thinks it was a loving thing to say. Like it was the highest honor, being the one person that made someone else want to keep living. She would never understand how it makes me feel. And I know it's dumb, but I actually feel guilty that I can't accept it the way she meant it.