Did I set a boundary?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Even though she tried to clear up silence with a love bomb, I replied with... .

"if you don't acknowledge my effort or own up to how my feelings are affected - I will be distant from you."

(we live states apart-she knows that means, you won't hear from me)

Did I set a clear boundary? (she's high functioning BPD that refuses treatment)

*I'm new to this since just learning this year of her disorder after many years of covert abuse, and I have always been the keep the peace, apath caretaker for all.*

[Cane787]

Even though she tried to clear up silence with a love bomb, I replied with... .

"if you don't acknowledge my effort or own up to how my feelings are affected - I will be distant from you."

(we live states apart-she knows that means, you won't hear from me)

Did I set a clear boundary? (she's high functioning BPD that refuses treatment)

*I'm new to this since just learning this year of her disorder after many years of covert abuse, and I have always been the keep the peace, apath caretaker for all.*

[once removed]

hey cane787 

in my estimate, sort of.

a boundary looks more personal to me: "if she doesnt acknowledge my effort or own up to how my feelings are affected - i will be distant from her". that also looks like push/pull behavior, and a reward/punishment system when it comes to relationships.

was it a clear boundary? not exactly. it comes across more like "if you dont behave as i wish, i will punish you". and it leaves her free to interpret it as "if i just do something different, i can achieve what i want."

its an ultimatum. a threat. its not always wrong to communicate boundaries, but actions tend to be better than words. perhaps my boundary is that if my partner screams at me, i will leave the room. i can tell her that. or i can just do it. sometimes we must clearly communicate our boundaries (especially in a professional environment) and sometimes our actions clearly communicate our boundaries.

in this case, a boundary looks more to me like "i will avoid getting close to people in the first place that do not demonstrate an ability to acknowledge my effort or own up to how my feelings are affected."

[Cane787]

Yours was far better, and how I intended it to come across.

Damn.

Thank you for explaining that, I'm learning as I suffer, I suppose.

[OutOfEgypt]

once removed said it very well.

A boundary is more about you, your values, and what you are willing to endure than anything.  In my experience, ultimatums don't work.  We're already dealing with someone who twists and turns their behavior to achieve what they want and maintain control, so an ultimatum is like handing them and opportunity to do it more, while spelling out exactly how.

The best boundaries I set with my ex were more after-the-fact boundaries that I stuck with.  For example, after being berated endless times over text messages, I finally sent her an email stating that I blocked her phone from text messaging and would only communicate with her via email.  I informed her that all email would be screened, and if it contained derogatory or abusive or personal material it would be deleted immediately by the person screening the email and I would never see any of the content, even if there were important things in the message.  I unfortunately have to stay in contact with her because we share children, but this boundary has paid off very well.

I agree with once-removed that threatening to be "distant" is a bit vague and may be perceived as an idle threat.  If you actually stopped talking to her because she doesn't acknowledge your feelings, that would be a boundary.  A boundary implies taking concrete action to change things for *you*, regardless of what the other person does.

[Cane787]

If you actually stopped talking to her because she doesn't acknowledge your feelings, that would be a boundary.  A boundary implies taking concrete action to change things for *you*, regardless of what the other person does.

That's a relief! Because I did in fact stop talking to her. So hopefully my vague reply and my positive action to stop talking told her?

I really want to break away from this person. I will always love her but I simply can't take her being in my life anymore.

You all are obviously much healthier when it comes to boundaries. I think my childhood that went into my adulthood to always be the caretaker went to far. Hence, the situation I am in now while trying to move on.

[OutOfEgypt]

Yeah, but I wasn't.  It was very, very confusing to me when I was where you're at.  It was even more confusing when I was still in the relationship.  I read the "Boundaries" book, and dozens of articles about boundaries, and they all left me confused.  It's hard to see what you're doing when you've been enmeshed with a person who makes you feel like having boundaries is mean, scary, and bad.  The fog will lift more and more in time and in distance.  Keep on keepin on.

[Cane787]

I can't tell you how much better you made me feel this morning.

I'm sorry to know you were once at where I am, but you gave me hope I will get to where you're at, that you know how I feel and that my action did something positive for myself.

Very grateful to you.

[once removed]

dont beat yourself up cane787. you will learn, and we are here to help . none of this (managing a relationship with a person with PD) is easy territory to navigate and its a lot easier said than done; but it is doable. boundaries exist to protect you, and generally they will improve relationships. good, firm, consistent boundaries are a must with a pwBPD, but at the same time, pwBPD struggle greatly with them.

i also recommend the "boundaries" book. i read it as a junior in high school and it had a lasting impact. articles too. im still learning, we all are.

this is a great thread on the subject, i reread it all the time: BOUNDARIES - Living our values

[Cane787]

Thanks so much, onceremoved. I will definitely read that. I certainly need to.

I think, other than shutting out someone I love, the hardest part is attempting navigation with such  a complicated creature that at one time made my union with her so easy and enjoyable. So I have a great deal of learning to do. I more than appreciate this group though. Such an abundance of wise, experienced, caring souls on here.

When you have a moment, how do you mean the pwBPD struggles with boundaries? How so? Don't they want guided since they mirror us, are basically empty inside and follow our cue?

I'm curious... .

[once removed]

i sometimes generally refer to pwBPD as "boundary busters". read a bit about "extinction bursts", which a person can run into when they try to set firm boundaries.

for myself as an example, when my ex would rage at me over the phone i would usually indicate i was exiting the conversation and stop replying. a lot of the time it worked really well. i wouldnt escalate, shed get it all out, then shed calm down and apologize and things would be fine. a lot of the time it didnt work so well, and mostly because i wasnt totally consistent about stepping away. often times id still read what she was sending as she sent it. then id find something i was tempted to respond to, and i would, thinking it was this totally bullet proof argument. it would only feed a circular argument and it would tell her that all she had to do was keep pushing buttons, and i would respond, which in that moment, was what she wanted. one time she threatened to take some pills if i didnt respond. seems to me i responded then tried to exit again so she claimed she took them. one time she tried various threats, then eventually she threatened to tell a female friend of mine a bunch of stuff and i responded. she ended up doing it anyway. there were however, lines she never even approached to cross.

it is essentially like dealing with a three year old, maybe a five year old when it comes to boundaries. there are lines that they likely wont cross if they understand the consequences (not guaranteed, but likely) and that there will be consequences. tell a three or five year old "NO" and you can imagine what kind of behavior youll get in response. generally, boundaries are hard for a pwBPD to get their mind around and truly understand. pwBPD lack a stable sense of self, and its difficult for them to know where they end and you begin, which is exactly what boundaries are. you will find that in general they lack boundaries themselves, or that they are poor/weak boundaries. pwBPD are also impulsive (act without thought of consequence) and emotionally immature which simply creates a lot of potential for clashes against your boundaries. boundaries can also trigger the sense of abandonment.

your question makes sense, except when you consider that the mirroring cannot be sustained. the guidance you refer to becomes more like enslavement, and a pwBPD may rebel against the very things they may have loved you for in the beginning. this is related to inner shame and a failure to successfully achieve a stable sense of self. hope that helps!

[Cane787]

Wow. You helped more than you even realize.

I not only wasn't aware of any of these details, I am losing my fascination with her with every moment of learning on here.

[Cane787]

@onceremoved I appreciate Boundaries-Living our values reading material. I have read it twice already. I will definitely keep that around.

I doubt it makes any difference but just to let you know, I reread what I wrote my pwBPDex (for the last time), and it reads: You know how I feel. Since you didn't acknowledge my letter, or own up to how my feelings were affected, I felt distance was appropriate. I believe you love me, I love you, I always will.

After 30 years, it's pretty trivial for an ending, but hopefully I gave more clear commentary than I realized and ended it with compassion. She's very black / white. Love / hate. On / off. I'm sure she took it as an ending.

[once removed]

glad to help, cane. learning about BPD can certainly aid in our recoveries in many ways. sometimes it feels a bit like learning a new language, but we get the hang of it, and so much of what we learn can be applied in building healthy relationships (of all kinds) in the future.

as far as your communication and how she will receive it goes, no way to say if she took it as an ending (or perhaps, whether she permanently accepts it as an ending). did you mean it as an ending?

[Cane787]

Yes. I am finally finished. Only because I can't fix this. I wish she was who I believed she to be, but I have a great deal of learning and healing to do on my end.

I know for sure I am thankful for finding this group, your words of wisdom, and everyone sharing their kindness and experiences. It's all helping a great deal.