Suckerpunched. Again. I am losing momentum.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I guess I am kind of defaulting to this board atm.

Things were going well with my boyfriend.

He showed up before Christmas and actually apologized to me and unblocked me from social sites. Really, I did not expect that.

We had a break from mid November to the week before Christmas. For the first time ever, I went silent on him. We had a conflict over his affair partner wanting to be on his social pages. He accepted her requests. At the same time, someone told me he had gotten her pregnant after asking me to marry him, and terminated the pregnancy on Valentine's Day 2013. He asked me to marry him Christmas 2012.

So things came to light. It was ( and still is) a very painful situation to me. So we had a disagreement over her addition to his social page. He cursed at me over it and blocked me in some places not in others. Make sense of the logic, I can't.

So where I saw him, I simply acted like he wasn't there. If he had tried to talk to me, I would have spoken. He has this whole silent treatment thing going and I am tired of it, so this time around I didn't try to talk to him.

So we start back up interactions. He is kind, patience, attentive. Then the suckerpunch involving interaction with his former affair partner. IMO, it was un-needed interaction. It scares me. I feel hurt, disrespected.

This fiasco begins last night, and I let myself get sucked into it.

He comes to talk to me on Skype IM. I tell him I don't feel good about what he did. I was polite. It was simple: I don't feel good about the continued interaction with Ms. Affair Partner.

He logs out.

I don't like that. It's been done so many times on me that it's like having a piece of glass just ground into you. So I leave him a message. "Logging out on me mid conversation is hurtful. I don't like it."

I leave it at that and go to bed. About 4 AM I wake up. He had come back and responded. He told me off for trying to talk to him ( Skype)  while he was riding on a bus around the town and how uncaring I am, and how I should move to a big cold city like he lives in and then maybe Danielle would be able to think of more than herself.

I had no idea he was on a bus. He rides them a lot and if I know he is traveling around I don't say a word to him usually because conflicts over trying to talk while he is on the bus or train.

I said to him ( missing opportunities for SET) that I didn't know he was traveling.

He said well he came back and responded as quickly as he could.

Fact is, he logged off on me, didn't communicate he was traveling, and then smacks me for telling him I felt hurt he logged off on me.

At that point the stonewalling and mini silent treatments began. He refused to reply to me. So I said, will you be available later so to talk a bit. I get insulted then ignored. As usual.

I have been trying very hard. Really, I have done a ton of hard work on detachment, removing myself from potential conflicts. I found some peace and calm. It was good.

And I lost it today. I let him drag me the whole day from one situation to another where I was put down, baited, told the most ridiculous things like how it doesn't matter if he wants to interact with the woman he cheated on me with. HE is trustworthy. He said "I already told you. I am not doing anything bad, so the rest is up to you."

Up to me, he means to make the situation work.

I don't feel that way at all. He cheated, he got someone else pregnant. He lied, be broke trust. He flat out refuses to take steps to restore that trust. He constantly defaults to telling me I am being SO negative and the real issue in the relationship is me being negative. Not what he is doing.

I really don't want to fight with the guy. It's simple for me. Own what he did, take steps to restore the trust in a common sense way.

But here we are. BPD. And it's winning right now. I got really mad and told him I think he is full of it. He then said we don't have anything between us, and whatever there was HE doesn't want.

Then he set Skype chat to away and is sitting there on my Skype. He had blocked me in November and that kind of stuff ticks me off and hurts my feelings. I don't like looking at him there in my contacts after he told me to f... .off. I didn't want to look at him so I kicked him off in November. He came back around and asked to be put back on in late December, so I did.

I am having a REALLY hard time not reacting at him. I signed out of Skype because I feel so exposed to more painful stuff. I signed out of facebook, and so on, because I feel like I am exposed there, too.

I want to tell him to take a hike and not approach me again. That seems like needless drama. At the same time, what he said to me and how it said it, it just slipped into me like nothing has for years. So very painful. Just an absolute ache inside of me.

I don't know what to do with this situation. There were many times after I found out about the affair that he publically rejected me. I was still very confused at that time, not really able to take on things. State of shock, I guess. He would approach me privately trying to kiss and make up and publically humiliate me and say really cruel things. What he said today really brought that back to me.

He says he understands I have reasons to be upset. But he said, he doesn't want to hear about it. He is TIRED of it coloring current situation and he claims the interaction with the former affair partner is above board. It's freaking aggravating the heck out of me and I feel upset a lot due to it.

Any ideas? I am trying to step back so I am not reacting and can consider a response that isn't knee jerk. This has created a lot of anxiety and strain today.

He's like sour grapes fox. " I didn't want you anyway!" and throws me away.

I keep thinking why is he saying that to me, then insisting on staying on Skype on my contacts. I know I can toss him, I am just baffled that he even wants to be there considering what he said to me about not wanting anything of me.  I really want to bolt off without a word to him and just keep the distance for a while. Months this time.

[Daniell85]

I guess I am kind of defaulting to this board atm.

Things were going well with my boyfriend.

He showed up before Christmas and actually apologized to me and unblocked me from social sites. Really, I did not expect that.

We had a break from mid November to the week before Christmas. For the first time ever, I went silent on him. We had a conflict over his affair partner wanting to be on his social pages. He accepted her requests. At the same time, someone told me he had gotten her pregnant after asking me to marry him, and terminated the pregnancy on Valentine's Day 2013. He asked me to marry him Christmas 2012.

So things came to light. It was ( and still is) a very painful situation to me. So we had a disagreement over her addition to his social page. He cursed at me over it and blocked me in some places not in others. Make sense of the logic, I can't.

So where I saw him, I simply acted like he wasn't there. If he had tried to talk to me, I would have spoken. He has this whole silent treatment thing going and I am tired of it, so this time around I didn't try to talk to him.

So we start back up interactions. He is kind, patience, attentive. Then the suckerpunch involving interaction with his former affair partner. IMO, it was un-needed interaction. It scares me. I feel hurt, disrespected.

This fiasco begins last night, and I let myself get sucked into it.

He comes to talk to me on Skype IM. I tell him I don't feel good about what he did. I was polite. It was simple: I don't feel good about the continued interaction with Ms. Affair Partner.

He logs out.

I don't like that. It's been done so many times on me that it's like having a piece of glass just ground into you. So I leave him a message. "Logging out on me mid conversation is hurtful. I don't like it."

I leave it at that and go to bed. About 4 AM I wake up. He had come back and responded. He told me off for trying to talk to him ( Skype)  while he was riding on a bus around the town and how uncaring I am, and how I should move to a big cold city like he lives in and then maybe Danielle would be able to think of more than herself.

I had no idea he was on a bus. He rides them a lot and if I know he is traveling around I don't say a word to him usually because conflicts over trying to talk while he is on the bus or train.

I said to him ( missing opportunities for SET) that I didn't know he was traveling.

He said well he came back and responded as quickly as he could.

Fact is, he logged off on me, didn't communicate he was traveling, and then smacks me for telling him I felt hurt he logged off on me.

At that point the stonewalling and mini silent treatments began. He refused to reply to me. So I said, will you be available later so to talk a bit. I get insulted then ignored. As usual.

I have been trying very hard. Really, I have done a ton of hard work on detachment, removing myself from potential conflicts. I found some peace and calm. It was good.

And I lost it today. I let him drag me the whole day from one situation to another where I was put down, baited, told the most ridiculous things like how it doesn't matter if he wants to interact with the woman he cheated on me with. HE is trustworthy. He said "I already told you. I am not doing anything bad, so the rest is up to you."

Up to me, he means to make the situation work.

I don't feel that way at all. He cheated, he got someone else pregnant. He lied, be broke trust. He flat out refuses to take steps to restore that trust. He constantly defaults to telling me I am being SO negative and the real issue in the relationship is me being negative. Not what he is doing.

I really don't want to fight with the guy. It's simple for me. Own what he did, take steps to restore the trust in a common sense way.

But here we are. BPD. And it's winning right now. I got really mad and told him I think he is full of it. He then said we don't have anything between us, and whatever there was HE doesn't want.

Then he set Skype chat to away and is sitting there on my Skype. He had blocked me in November and that kind of stuff ticks me off and hurts my feelings. I don't like looking at him there in my contacts after he told me to f... .off. I didn't want to look at him so I kicked him off in November. He came back around and asked to be put back on in late December, so I did.

I am having a REALLY hard time not reacting at him. I signed out of Skype because I feel so exposed to more painful stuff. I signed out of facebook, and so on, because I feel like I am exposed there, too.

I want to tell him to take a hike and not approach me again. That seems like needless drama. At the same time, what he said to me and how it said it, it just slipped into me like nothing has for years. So very painful. Just an absolute ache inside of me.

I don't know what to do with this situation. There were many times after I found out about the affair that he publically rejected me. I was still very confused at that time, not really able to take on things. State of shock, I guess. He would approach me privately trying to kiss and make up and publically humiliate me and say really cruel things. What he said today really brought that back to me.

He says he understands I have reasons to be upset. But he said, he doesn't want to hear about it. He is TIRED of it coloring current situation and he claims the interaction with the former affair partner is above board. It's freaking aggravating the heck out of me and I feel upset a lot due to it.

Any ideas? I am trying to step back so I am not reacting and can consider a response that isn't knee jerk. This has created a lot of anxiety and strain today.

He's like sour grapes fox. " I didn't want you anyway!" and throws me away.

I keep thinking why is he saying that to me, then insisting on staying on Skype on my contacts. I know I can toss him, I am just baffled that he even wants to be there considering what he said to me about not wanting anything of me.  I really want to bolt off without a word to him and just keep the distance for a while. Months this time.

[Caley]

Hello Daniell,

From reading what you've written ... your situation sounds very confusing and akin to an emotional tug of war. I have found defaulting to this site has been very helpful and supportive during times when I've felt confused and upset. And, coming here and reading other people's experiences has also helped me to dig deep, and find strength, to make a decision to stay away from interactions with my Ex that can lead to further confusion and emotional upset.

Ultimately it really does come down to whether you want to continue to have contact with someone who thinks and behaves very differently to you. Often, for many other people, there are other factors involved that make detaching/detachment a long process ... for instance children or shared property and assets, etc. However, even for complicated situations like the above ... it is still essential to come to a decision as to stay or go.

For me, it was necessary to let go of any logic. Already, and if you are like me, letting go of logic immediately makes us feel uncomfortable. In my experience, whenever I tried to use logic it had the reverse intended effect ... and in many cases just made things worse.

Someone once said, '... don't wrestle with pigs ... you'll get dirty ... and, besides, pigs like it.'

That isn't to say people who behave this way are pigs ... it just means that some people, regardless of how you approach conflict resolution (with good intentions), just like conflict. Perhaps they have lived a life where conflict, in some form or another, is familiar. And, perhaps, during their childhood, or early adulthood, they never really got to express their opinions and feelings and have them validated. And, to some degree, that might explain that they now have a 'need' to feel like they have to 'win' in every interaction that involves any kind of criticism (even if it is well meant and constructive). And, it may go some way as to explain why they find it difficult to validate your experience with them ... because they were not taught to and don't possess the tools to truly place themselves in someone else's position.

Staying, and allowing myself to become embroiled in their dramatic emotional swings and muddled thinking, served only to confuse and madden me ... because I simply didn't know what I was dealing with or how to manage effectively whilst I was in it.

It is very difficult not to take things personally ... and I feel sometimes, that when people say this, it is in effect just a more subtle way of invalidating one's own experience, and doesn't help much. In the grand scheme of things we may be universally one with one another ... but in this life we are individuals with thoughts, feelings, emotions, values and we can feel hurt by another's words and actions.

If you decide that enough is enough ... the most effective way is to adopt zero contact. The sooner one does this ... the sooner one comes back to a place of calm, and is able to see a little bit more clearly, and finally able to move on to more rounded, healthier and more fulfilling experiences involving relationships.

Best wishes.

[Daniell85]

Caley, thanks for your comments. 

The deal breaking issue for me with him is his refusal to stop dragging other women into the picture. That is specific to his former affair partner and about 3 other women.

What he keeps telling me is he is not doing anything "bad" now. As in he has cleaned up his act, these girls are social contacts or in one case a social AND business contact. So by his estimation, since he is not doing anything "bad" now, he can therefore be trusted. So he is fighting to the death to continue to interact and have social contact with them.


That is not ok with me. What ends up happening, is I am asked back into things and he says to me he is not interacting with them. Then boom he changes his mind and does. I don't feel safe, I think he is a liar, and cannot be trusted.

I got hooked in to try and discuss with him some on this and he made it pure heck.

I am coping ok with the other things he does. Everything else is peaceful, except this one topic. I cannot be in a relationship with a man who is so disrespectful to me, who lies and cheats, gets someone else pregnant... .and then won't own his actions and take steps to restore trust and keep that trust.

Obviously I cannot create his boundaries and enforce them for him. I am having a hard time making a final choice I know I can stick to on this relationship to end it. If I end it, it's done for me.

[sweetheart]

Hi Daniel85, this man is letting you know through his actions around these other woman, his behaviour with you around this subject, that this is not an area he is able to or wants to change. By his tacit refusal to not disengage from them, he is owning his actions, because he continues to pursue them.

What it comes down to is whether you can accept that his being with other woman is part of who he is and who he wants to be, and therefore will form part of your relationship with him.

It sounds as though your head is already there with a decision, hence this from you... .I cannot be in a relationship with a man who is so disrespectful to me, who lies and cheats, gets someone else pregnant... .and then won't own his actions and take steps to restore trust and keep that trust.... .it's just that perhaps your heart needs more time to catch up.

I'm going to add a link to some of Patientandclear's post around some very similar issues, I hope they might be of some help.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281398.0


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=288064.10

[Daniell85]

Hey Sweetheart

No, my heart hasn't caught up.

I have spent the last 2 or so years arguing my case with him. Never got far. I kept JADE up a ton until the last couple of months. As I did some therapy, came to a couple of important realizations, I stopped arguing (mostly)and began to act to show him that I am firm on the boundary.

Every time he crosses it, I excuse myself from interacting with him. He has been more responsive to my typically polite withdrawal and silence than he ever has to trying to talk anything out. So all of this is new ground for me.

When I am calmer, I think, well I have to be tough here about the boundaries. I know he wants me there with him. Under his conditions I agree he can be trusted and I don't show him unhappiness over his "friend" choices.

I can't do that, am doubtful it is healthy at all.

According to him, I am the one he decided he wants, and according to him he made a choice and therefore the women are no danger and he can be trusted, so suck it up Danielle.

I am triggered constantly by his interactions with them. He may very well be speaking his truth. But to me it's a really terrible experience and triggers off the bad feelings.

I just cannot be calm on it. So to me I have made the choice not to even try to be with him while he is in the mindset and actions he is doing. I can't cope. So that choice is made and I am ok with it.

When I am upset, I think never again! I will never speak or be around such a person or involve myself.

Something I noticed finally creeping in is this feeling of being brainwashed into thinking well maybe he is being truthful, maybe that is all in the past, maybe there is no harm. Then I see those ladies and it's like a mountain crashes down on me. It feels like my face rubbed in it and I wonder about my self esteem, or my dignity. It seems to be eroding away and that scares me

[sweetheart]

  

When you have time try read the link, there are some really insightful posts from MayBeSo that talk about the dynamics of the kind you describe in your relationship.

What you describe sounds agonising, I can relate to have my self-esteem eroded and my dignity was nowhere in sight for a long while. My h was never unfaithful, but we had many other issues going on that I accepted for way to long.

Take really good care of yourself first and foremost, that's somewhere else to focus for a while.  Coming to this board is a good way of opening yourself to different possibilities.

[Daniell85]

I have read a lot of Patient's posts. Way back a few years. It's been like reading a novel, beautifully written.

I think what you were pointing out to me, sweetheart, is accepting the now. This is how it is, what you see is what you get. He's doesn't seem to have the concept of "faithful" and can I accept that as status quo.

When he and I talked about the why of his affair, he said that he had thought she accepted him totally. That looking for the perfect person who could see he was terrible at times, but was not sitting there listing his sins day after day. He told me if I could up my ante and not blame him for what he did, then I could be the frontrunner.

After feeling grossly insulted, I thought about that statement a lot. I know he wants to be completely embraced and accepted. Forgiven. I get it.

The problem for me is that he DEMANDS the clean slate, makes the assumption he has it, and then goes out and plays chicken with me over what I view ( my values) as completely horrible behaviors.

He refuses to allow me time to heal, he refuses to rebuild the trust ( he demands it) and he keeps jerking me around for feeling fear or being very anxious. To him, the acts he would have to take to repair the trust are demeaning and he is furious because he feels "blamed" and "attacked" and I making his life an living he... .

We did have a talk recently about not being on the same page. He agreed we aren't. He sees no reason to repair the trust. He says it's good enough he says he is trustworthy. The rest of it, he says, is Danielle causing a lot of trouble by getting upset about what he is doing.

I do accept that he is where he is. It's just sometimes I get lulled and then blindsided and react initially out of panic and confusion.

I think maybe I simply feel humiliated today, hurt, angry. And very very to blame for allowing myself to get taken by surprise and lose my temper eventually.

He is making himself available, but I did not talk to him today. I don't have any plans to talk to him any time soon. The humiliation I feel is currently overriding any feelings of wanting to talk.

[Caley]

Hello Daniell,

I felt that one of the hardest things to accept, and fully appreciate, that whilst I played a role in my relationship; it wasn't healthy to fuel ideas that any 'blame' was solely attributed to me for allowing myself to be hoodwinked into losing my temper. Angriness has a purpose and it is not always negative. So, I feel that all the emotions you are currently experiencing are completely normal given your situation. It doesn't help, whilst you are feeling at your lowest ebb to kick yourself down further by castigating yourself for being surprised, yet again, by confusing and less than honest behaviour.

Your partner, would appear to me, to be displaying behaviour more akin to NPD than to BPD.

You may find some solace educating yourself and understanding these traits and behaviour patterns.

You say, that he refuses to allow you time to heal ... this is just one of the manipulation techniques someone who behaves this way adopt ... and, there are many others that'll have your head spinning, heart aching and keep you emotionally unstable ... and ultimately ill.

Your plans to not engage with him 'any time soon', in my opinion, is the best course.

Bless you.

[Daniell85]

I actually thought when he began to act out that he was NPD or psychopathic.

I spent a lot of time over on NPD and Psychopathic boards. I came here and I saw all of the lessons and that learning to handle things differently could get different results.

What I have actually seen are people who have become detached and dispassionate. Zen masters? Maybe. I assume people are getting some great rewards that they don't talk a lot about.

I read that NPD is comorbid in the middle 40% of men with BPD. The diagnosis are not official in this case.

He is a volatile person. There is a big circle of scorched earth surrounding the perimeter of his life.

He told me the other day that he may be walking around and appearing composed, but inside of him, he is raging and screaming profanities. I rarely see profanity out of him, though. In the last 2 months, I have seen it twice.

I saw it when he cursed at me in November, and just a few days ago he was calling the woman he had the affair with a "stupid bit**" because she had started a conflict with a close friend of his and came over to dump all over him and demand he do something about it. According to him he read her messages enough to get the gist of what happened, totally sided with his friend and then ignored further messages.

Then the next day, he was out with her and a few other people, apprised me of it mid event and acted all smiling and happy. I waited until the next day to try and talk a bit about it, and what I got was "I am not doing anything wrong, I already told you ( as in messing around with her) and the rest is up to you." As in he is there, doing nothing wrong, and Danielle needs to suck it up and just let our relationship grow back to what it was.

I am meeting a brick wall inside myself over that. He got her pregnant. She retaliated by terminating the pregnancy on Valentine's day and making sure I knew it. Not to be a baby, but my Valentine's Day, no matter who I am with seems like it is going to be messed up for the rest of my life.

Ugh, sorry to vent so much.

In terms of actions on my part, I don't know what to do. I know what my gut is telling me, which is to RUN. But I have acted impulsively many times and then thought, why didn't I just stay STILL and let some time pass, wait and see if there is a shift or change, and then work from there.

I am trying. I logged back into Skype, he is sitting there, available, after trashing the recent relationship ( which admittedly hasn't been good, so who would want that). It hurts me. I am in a lot of pain, it tears me up just to see him there, just looking at him, and I feel so much pain. It's not anger. I know if I spoke kindly to him and rug swept everything, he would be so happy.

I can't rug sweep it.

[Caley]

Hi Daniell,

It might make him very happy if you rug swept ...

If he were to act this way again ... in the future ... how will you feel then, worse than you do now or better?

Do you have family you could talk to? Anyone that can listen, validate your experience and give you support?

I hope you listen to your gut and run.

Take very good care of you ... before making any attempts to care for him.

[Daniell85]

He isn't going to get it rug swept by me.

He keeps trying to convince me that he is not doing things to hurt me. So I have no basis to be upset with him. And he shouldn't have to correct a situation that I am hurt by when he wasn't doing it to hurt me.

I actually believe him when he says it's not meant to hurt me. Depraved indifference, anyone?

[Caley]

Depraved indifference?

If by that you mean, utter disregard for your feelings ... I'd have to agree.

Gaslighting? Minimising, invalidating?

Do you really believe him?

This man you are involved with would appear to want to do what he wants, when he wants, and doesn't appear to want anything to do with a monogamous, committed relationship. I'm assuming you do ... so, it would appear, that you are both on completely different pages and have conflicting expectations of each other.

Answer me this. When he behaves in this way ... are you hurt by his actions and his attitude to your experience of it?

[Daniell85]

I am very hurt.

[Caley]

Then, I fear for you, that if you keep investing in the belief that this man is going to change his MO anytime soon, you're going to be setting yourself up for more heart ache. And, please, give some thought to the very real possibility that the next time he feels it necessary to dole out more abuse towards you ... it will be more severe than the last.

A person, man or woman, who truly cares about you and who respects you, wouldn't behave in this demeaning manner.

You deserve much, much better ... the trouble, it seems to me, is that you don't believe you do.

Best wishes. 

[Jessica84]

Daniell - my heart breaks for you 

I can't imagine how much this hurts you. I'm sure there is nothing he'd like more than for you to forgive and forget. But really, forgiveness is so key to your well-being. Not for the sake of your relationship, but for you personally. If you don't find a way to heal these emotional wounds, they could cause physical ones. Sounds like the anxiety from this is eating you alive. Whether you decide to stay or leave the relationship, you have to work on this for you.

Forgiveness does not mean you accept the behavior or pretend it away like it never happened. It requires accepting it happened. Neither you nor he can change the past. Take deep breaths, stay in the moment -- not in the past where the cheating happened --- not in the future where more cheating could happen. In this moment, nothing is happening. Do this a few minutes each day and push away any thoughts from the past or future in those moments. They don't exist. Then let the pain flow. Cry if you need to. Then get up and do something special for yourself. Eventually, you'll find yourself less and less hurt, because you are releasing it.

The past may leave a scar but it can heal. We don't realize how much power we give other people to re-open old wounds. The bleeding gushes again and again if we don't properly tend to them. This is too painful for you to endure over and over again. Time to dress the wounds once and for all. Be patient with yourself. It is a process. When you get to the point where Feb 14 no longer hurts or makes you cringe inside, you are your way.

As for him maintaining contact with these other women, do you think it is possible that if you stopped demanding he cut ties with them, he might decide to do so on his own? Maybe even get bored with them? Maybe see it doesn't work if he's using them to get to you? Sounds like he's already starting to see flaws in one them. Given enough time, he could very well paint each of them black.

Regardless, I think once you truly forgive him this pain, he will no longer be able to hurt you with it. No matter what you decide, you will be so much healthier... .whether with him, someone else, or no one else.

 

[Daniell85]

He may cut ties with them. He sees one of them almost everyday, (work) though.

We talked a lot the last few days. Listening to him, he is very focused on how bad other people have made his life. He doesn't want to "give" to anyone almost. He's very self protective, defensive. He is way more concerned about other people hurting him than he is about hurting others. I think some big stuff has caught up to him, and he feels very stuck.


For myself, I think about what he has done, I feel shocked or numb or pain. I feel bad for both of us. I doubt there is much to be gained in progress with him for the next few months.

To focus on myself. That is what we end up doing when nothing else seems possible. We focus on ourselves. I feel very melancholy about that. I feel lonely.

[shawnav]

Oh Daniell your story and experiences remind me so much of mine! I met my exBPDbf on a dating website. We were together 3 months and it was a very tumultuous 3 months! During that time, after several weeks together, when we were already deep into our relationship, I disabled my profile. He did not. So I talked to him about it. Again and again and again. After a time, we fought hard about him staying on there all the time. He would always say a lot of the same things yours would say like "it's a network site. I'm just talking to people, I'm not meeting them, so it's harmless." Or "I don't have any friends like you do, I deserve to have friends, too!"

The caveat with him is that he was and still is homeless. I know this disorder keeps him from being able to keep a job. He can get any job he wants and has had several jobs. For a week. I now believe he would prefer the homeless life rather than being accountable for keeping things in his life, like a stable income and housing.  But he would always use that when I would get upset about him not responding to me. We would be mid-convo and he would constantly just suddenly quit responding and then finally hours later say the same things yours did like "I have to use wifi when and where I can find it! I don't have a normal phone like yours! I do the best I can, but you don't know what it's like living on the streets!"

Like Caley said, he always had to "win". Anytime he would say something and I countered, not even fighting, just tried to bring up facts that might not align with what he was saying he would be like "see, there you go again. You always have to argue. Just take the knee and let me be right." "It's about right and wrong and I'll prove you wrong every time".

I am definitely like you, I've been brainwashed to accept things I know aren't right thinking that I was wrong in my reaction. If I had just been patient enough, bitten my tongue enough, listened enough, not worried, etc etc etc things would have turned out differently. But I now realize he does things he knows will trigger me because he has to fight just to fight. They thrive on that kind of thing.

Oh my goodness and the building the trust thing! From the beginning mine told me several times, that he shouldn't have to prove his trustworthiness. I should trust that he is with me and no one else, even if he is talking to other girls, and that I should help him financially and trust that he wouldn't do me wrong. I did help him a lot financially and when it came time for him to pay the bills per our signed contract, he split. Being homeless, he literally fell off the face of the earth. I know where he parks his truck, though, and where he goes to get wifi, so several weeks later I eventually found him. With another girl. That he didn't stay with for long. I told him he cheated on me, but according to him, when he didn't take my calls or answer my texts, that was his way of breaking up with me. So, we weren't together, so he didn't cheat. Even though, he "broke up" with me without returning my credit card. Thankfully, after he left he didn't put any more charges on it, but a logical mind would tend to think that he still had open items to resolve with me, so actually, we weren't completely broken up until that important piece was resolved. Not in his thinking.

Some things I've realized is that you are trying to logically speak and express your feelings to someone who just doesn't have the ability to rationalize on a healthy level. Pounding your head trying to force it to happen just won't work. Things change daily with them, so even if he's ignoring you today, doesn't mean he will tomorrow. Promises he makes today (and I truly believe the promises they make, they fully intend and desire to keep in the moment of making them) won't be on their radar tomorrow. They just simply don't have your best interest at heart. I also fully believe they don't love themselves, so they don't even have their own best interests at heart.

Also, the question about BPD vs NPD. I have a friend who is a child psychiatrist and has 2 family members who are BPD and she once told me, that it's very common for them to oscillate between the 2. Quite frankly, a huge part of BPD is narcissism. They're just too broken.

I've come to a place where I know I'll hear from my ex again. He's been in and out of my life for a year. We had a conversation on New Years Day about mental illness and he acknowledged he has mental illness. We did not go into diagnosing what, but he did talk about admitting himself into a hospital. I haven't heard from him since, but I'm encouraged by that conversation. He's broken. He's hurting. He just has to want stability and healing and all I can do is encourage it and speak of it as much as I can to make him think about how much better life could be. He knows it could get better.

Hugs to ya. Encouragement to you as well. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I am here. I am also hurting in the same ways you are. But I am encouraged through the pain. You can be too because you are here.

S

[Daniell85]

Thanks for your comments, Shawnav  

He seems to be trying to prove himself a lot more this week. But. He is making it all about me earning *his* trust back. I heard a bit of that today, and I am put  off by it. I don't feel angry. Just tired and a bit sad.

My answer for much of anything these days is to absent myself from him. I don't feel good about what he says to me, I disagree politely and back away a couple days. I see something I don't feel good about, I go quiet.

I feel like I have reached some limits.

We had an ok week ( as much as it can be ok with all of the elephants in the middle of the room) and had a little bad patch today where I  caught him out on something. He realized I was low, and kept asking me why I felt bad. He knew why, and it's very unusual for him to ask me 4 or 5 times about something. Eventually I told him I felt low because I was having a hard time coping with what he did. This turned into accusations of "you are imagining things" and denials from him, contempt for me and my feelings. A few cuss words.

I didn't engage, it would go nowhere good. I asked to change the subject and he went along with that. I don't feel ok about some of the things he said to me, so I am going to avoid contact with him as much as I can this weekend. I think he will be going to see his family, and he always gets a hair trigger when around them. I have ended up the target of his bad mood too many times and wished I had just sort of not been around after his visits there in the past. I hide now.