BPD and Christianity

[Depression = 72% of members]

I met my wife 3 weeks after my previous wife left me. I was married for 25 years. I WAS NOT planning to meet someone that quick but it happened. I met my wife on a "Christian" dating site.

I know the views of being a Christian are varied. The type I am talking about here is I believe what the bible says even if I don't listen to all of it, to me it's still the truth.   

One of the major aspects that drew me to this woman was that she told me she wanted to live a simple life not full of drama, she wanted to get her life in order and have a relationship with God, get back to going to church and have a good marriage. We talked about all of this before I even met her face to face, then when I met her she was so easy to be around and so pretty and so... .well you know. This is where I let myself go. We slept together the second time we got together, WAS NOT planning that either it just happened. It was like an emotional drug. I knew I was violating my values based on what I believe. Before I even slept with her I "knew" that this was the woman I wanted to be with. 

Now 4 1/2 years later my wife uses my beliefs against me. Do any others see this behavior in your pwBPD? My wife claims to be a born again christian. What I observe is that she really never has "lived" the christian life. It's almost like she expects other professing christians to live the way she expects them to live and if they slip up or do something that she deems un-christian she has laid judgement on them. It all depends on her frame of mind towards them. Everything she does though that is "unchristian" is justifiable in her mind because she says "God knows my heart".

I am curious of the extremes that other people see with this. The other night I was told that I was a bad christian husband, I wasn't a good example and that I wasn't someone she could look up to. What triggered that was my not embracing at the moment placing silverware her way in the dishwasher.

I know I am not these things but hearing this stuff then trying to get along with this person is a challenge

She has not been with me to church for 3 years, she uses her weight as the reason. She blames me if we don't study the bible together but she never picks up a bible on her own. Blames me if I don't pray with her, but she has no prayer life of her own. you get the picture. I have told her in bad arguments that she is the biggest hypocrite I have ever met (I couldn't help it)

just curious of others experiences

[byfaith]

I met my wife 3 weeks after my previous wife left me. I was married for 25 years. I WAS NOT planning to meet someone that quick but it happened. I met my wife on a "Christian" dating site.

I know the views of being a Christian are varied. The type I am talking about here is I believe what the bible says even if I don't listen to all of it, to me it's still the truth.   

One of the major aspects that drew me to this woman was that she told me she wanted to live a simple life not full of drama, she wanted to get her life in order and have a relationship with God, get back to going to church and have a good marriage. We talked about all of this before I even met her face to face, then when I met her she was so easy to be around and so pretty and so... .well you know. This is where I let myself go. We slept together the second time we got together, WAS NOT planning that either it just happened. It was like an emotional drug. I knew I was violating my values based on what I believe. Before I even slept with her I "knew" that this was the woman I wanted to be with. 

Now 4 1/2 years later my wife uses my beliefs against me. Do any others see this behavior in your pwBPD? My wife claims to be a born again christian. What I observe is that she really never has "lived" the christian life. It's almost like she expects other professing christians to live the way she expects them to live and if they slip up or do something that she deems un-christian she has laid judgement on them. It all depends on her frame of mind towards them. Everything she does though that is "unchristian" is justifiable in her mind because she says "God knows my heart".

I am curious of the extremes that other people see with this. The other night I was told that I was a bad christian husband, I wasn't a good example and that I wasn't someone she could look up to. What triggered that was my not embracing at the moment placing silverware her way in the dishwasher.

I know I am not these things but hearing this stuff then trying to get along with this person is a challenge

She has not been with me to church for 3 years, she uses her weight as the reason. She blames me if we don't study the bible together but she never picks up a bible on her own. Blames me if I don't pray with her, but she has no prayer life of her own. you get the picture. I have told her in bad arguments that she is the biggest hypocrite I have ever met (I couldn't help it)

just curious of others experiences

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[unicorn2014]

That's really tough.

My pwBPD claims to have partially grown up in the faith I chose to convert to. He started going to church for a period of time, but seems to have fallen off the wagon. He claims he really likes going to my parish, which is thousands of miles from where he lives.

Since you are married to your pwBPD your circumstances are different from mine.

I would say do what you can to focus on your own health, development and sanity. Do you think you have any degree of enmeshment in your marriage?

[Chilibean13]

My uBPDh does the exact same thing. When we got married he was not a Christian. He was pretty much an atheist and one day on his way home from work, he suddenly believed. I truly believe that he is born again, but his mind is broken (i.e. his mind has not conformed to the mind of CHrist.)

When my husband gets mad, he will frequently rail about how horrible CHristians are. He frequently does this when he can lump me into the category of "bad Christian". In the past it used to bother me. Now, when he starts acting that way, I remind him that he is a CHristian, and I just ask him, "So are you renoucing your faith in Christ?" He backs off pretty quickly. It's in these moments that I have to remind myself that we have a very real enemy and that enemy is messing with his mind. "We do not fight against flesh and blood but against principalities, against the powers, against the spiritual hosts of wickdness in the heavenly places." Sometimes I will just grab his hands, even while he is railing, and just pray with him. My prayer is that he will have peace of mind and that God will heal whatever hurts he has. If he is fighting with me my prayer also includes that God will renew our relationship.

The black/white thinking is a part of BPD. They often do not have the ability to see people as able to be good and bad at the same time (dialectical). Christians are either all good or all bad. When either myself, our pastor, or other church members are good in his eyes, then Christians are good. When he feels rejected or hurt by us, Christians are bad.

For awhile I began to question whether my H really was a Christian. His behavior was so unChristlike that I thought maybe his conversion was false. After all, people should begin to change after they become born again. I took a class at our church a couple months ago called LIFE group (Living in Freedom Everyday). This class taught me that although a person's spirit has salvation, their mind (emotions, will, and thoughts) and their body (physical) have not been sanctified. The Holy Spirit may control their spirit, but their mind and body are still in the habit of giving in to the flesh. So, when he feels offended, hurt, or angry, he continues to yell, rage, and act out despite being Christian. He must submit his mind and body to Christ before he can change. We all go through this at salvation; theirs is just more noticable because their behavior is shown outwardly to other people.

A week ago I began to go into spiritual warfare everyday for my husband. My prayer in the car or wherever I can speak outloud, with authority, and not look like I'm talking to myself goes like this: Satan, get your hands off my husband's mind, off his emotions, and off my marriage. God, I ask that your Holy Spirit begins to heal the hurts from H's past, heal his emotions, heal the wounds that cause him to feel so insecure. Heal our marriage also. Help me to remain calm in the midst of the chaos. I just ask that your presence fills our home and that we speak only kindness to each other. In Jesus' name. Amen.

Sorry for the long post. My relationship with Jesus is just so important to me that when I talk about it, I get going.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, so much for "judge not, let ye be judged". I'm always amazed at those who want to ridicule or judge, but they don't see what hypocrites they are being. I made the opposite mistake, and as a Christian, married a non believer. Well, he actually did say he believed in God, he just didn't like organized religion. That turned out to be a total lie.

I should not have married a non believer, and now I'm "unequally yoked". I thought because he was so good to me, appeared so laid back, and had so many good qualities(all fake), that his eternal soul and his choices were on him. Well, what I didn't foresee was that all his actions and behaviors were actually fake, and that it's very difficult to live with a non believer who has no moral compass. Now, I think a lot of non Christians do have a moral compass, and if BPDh did, we'd probably get along much better.

It's almost like BPDh has no conscience, and he doesn't care if what he does hurts others, and he's so totally all about himself. He's a narcissist, for sure, but I also fear he could be Antisocial, as he seems to lack a sense of right or wrong, and lacks empathy when he's hurt others.

I think you need a line you say when she spouts this stuff at you. You could always use the "judge not, let ye be judged", or there are many similar verses. She's clearly not practicing what she preaches, and maybe if you call her out on it, it'll shut her up? Or make her think. At least she'll know you aren't just buying into it.

Have you tried Christian marriage counseling?

[Notwendy]

Not related to a specific religion, but we talk about "religious abuse" in our ACOA group where some members grew up in homes where their parents used religion as a form of manipulation and or abuse. Some of these members have left their religions that they grew up with, changed denominations, or come to a different concept of their own religion that is not based on how their FOO's interpreted this.

All one needs to do is turn on the news today to see the various personal interpretations of religion to see just how varied it can be. It is possible that two people of the same denomination can interpret religion differently. Also, if your SO's were raised in homes where religion was used to control them, then it would stand to reason that they also think this is OK to do.

Faith, it is very possible that your wife is being completely honest when you were dating. It could be that this is her ideal - to have a simple faith based marriage. However, in terms of black and white thinking, she may also see this as an all or none thing. None of us live up to our ideals 100% of the time, day in, day out, and so, she may think that it is either this perfect ideal she has in her mind or none.

I think you have also struggled with the consequences of upholding boundaries with her, recently after the spoon incident. That you felt that being a good husband was being accommodating. That is something perhaps you would wish to discuss with a clergy member or read some books about. I am not familiar with many of them. I know that Dr. Dobson, who is a psychologist, discusses the topic of "tough love" in terms of not enabling. That is something to think about because, while enabling may give you a bit of peace, it may not really be the best way to love someone.

Your wife has an image in her head- being the perfect wife, the perfect weight and size, and in terms of black and white thinking, that means if that size is a 6, and she were to be even an 8, it would be unacceptable to her, while to you, she would look amazing . It may be that her ideal image of herself is not even realistic for her build and so is an impossible image. Men don't care as much about a few extra pounds as women do, and a woman with BPD could struggle with a poor self image. Right now, perhaps she doesn't love herself very much.

My mother with BPD struggled with her weight and dieted all the time, yet she was never even big enough to be concerned. When I see old pictures of her, she looks amazing, but she was not happy with herself. If your wife is overweight, she may be so ashamed of her body that she doesn't want you to see it, which may be a reason for the lack of intimacy. I have read articles about this, where men just love their SO's bodies the way they are, and want to see them, but because of the fashion industry, we women feel we have to hide every bulge.

With counseling, I hope that perhaps there can be some acceptance on her part that trying counts, that reaching a goal is just that, we try, we sometimes aren't perfect at that simple faith based marriage, but take steps toward it. Maybe breaking it down to adding one step, like grace at meals, or something simple is a reasonable goal. Then add another. The idea of all or none can be overwhelming. Likewise with physical intimacy. Maybe the best she can do is hold hands for now, and then, after that, one small step again.

[flowerpath]

This discrepancy between the "talk" and the "walk" is just one of the things that resulted in my losing respect for my udBPDh.  

The same person who was yelling at our son about something he did wrong, and threatening him with body language, was screaming in our son's face "Be like Christ!"  

The same person who cursed at me at night held morning prayer with the family before leaving the house.  

We wanted to have family devotions, but my h ended up screaming at our son night after night because the child didn't have the attention span to sit through the long sermon.  It didn't matter that I explained to him that it needed to be short.  We had a really good book of short devotions for kids, but he wanted to expand on the topic as long as he wanted, and he expected the boys to sit through it no matter what.  It became a nightly pattern of his ending the devotion time by fussing at our son.  I really wanted to have family devotions, but this situation was more destructive than helpful.  It was sending our children the wrong message, and I had to break the pattern by not participating.  He ended up not doing the devotions at all.  

He criticizes our church family for not being the kind of people who holler out "Amen" and "Hallelujah" during the service.  He says it shows how spiritually lacking our church is.  I suggested that he find a church where people do that.  He prefers to criticize our church family instead.  He worked in the same business as our Sunday school teacher, but was jealous of his position in the company.  He would go to Sunday school and act the part and then criticize the Sunday school teacher at home.  

I believe his heart is in the right place.  His mind is just not right.

[unicorn2014]

I have a different problem.

I allowed my pwBPD to sleep with me before marriage and yesterday I went to confession to deal with this. Keep in mind my pwBPD claims he grew up in the same faith I converted to and he left in his 30s. I'm going to ask his mom about this, I think. Anyways this morning he said to me "look fwd to waking up next to you again." I ignored that sentence and it's really bothering me. As many of you know he's still not divorced yet.

[Notwendy]

The idea of God is very abstract, and developmentally, children are not able to think abstractly until about their teens. A child forms their concept of God from their parents' behavior. In a way, parents are god like to very young children- seemingly all knowing and powerful ( until the kids become teens and think their parents don't know anything!) . Little kids look up to their parents and this is how they form their early concepts of God.

The literature for ACOA ( which includes dysfunction) discusses this. The 12 steps involves a higher power, and so the idea of a higher power ( which is individual for all members) is addressed. It also addresses the idea of religious abuse, parents using religion to punish or control their children. Some member have what is called a "getcha God" an unforgiving and punitive image of God, because that is how their parents were, possibly because their parents also had a "Getcha God". One of the tasks of emotional healing is to transform one's image of God ( if one is religious)  into a loving God as a part of self care and self love.

Your H may have a getcha God, that he learned from his parents.

[Foolishwizdom]

A resource that is good for sorting out Christian faith, principles and relationships is by a Christian psychologist name Dr. Henry Cloud (and co-authored by someone else named Townshend.)  The basic book is called "Boundaries: When to say Yes and How to say No" but there are others in the series, including "Boundaries in Christian Marriage."  None of them that I have found yet deal specifically with personality disorders but they give a good foundation for an individual to start from over issues like does "turn the other cheek" mean Christians should be doormats?

I am a protestant pastor and my now-husband's (my pwBPD) ability to talk faith, church, theology, and philosophy with me was a big part of our attraction and compatibility. He embraced a life that had church at the center.

The practice of a Christian living has been more difficult. Since he does not produce income, he is resentful that I do. Financial issues and things like tithing become major arguments.  I am strong enough in my faith and identity in Christ that I know that God's will is not for me to abused by the person who promised to love and honor me. I know that to not do what I feel is right and important to God because it upsets my husband is not right. I know that to do whatever it takes to please my dBPDh would be dangerously close to idolatry because it would require me giving to my husband what I have already committed to God.

But I still find myself feeling conflicted at the idea of leaving. I can get over the judgment that might come upon me from others. I am more internally confused. As a pastor, I know I am not anyone's 'savior.' Each person has to find their own way and I can point someone in a direction and walk in that way myself but I cannot force or fix or create faith and a desire for change in someone all by myself.  But I do believe in prayer, redemption, and grace. The 'what if' question stalls me out... what if just a little more time, a little more validation, a little more detachment on my part would be enough to make it work... .Where is the line and will I know when I've crossed it or will it be such a slippery slope that I won't realize that I've compromised too much until... .I don't know. something can't be undone?

[formflier]

  Hey Foolishwizdom, I don't think I've been in any of your posts yet.    I'm conservative Christian guy and the Cloud book that you mentioned was a big help to me in understanding and implementing boundaries.  Also big in helping me understand that boundaries work both ways.  I don't want someone (even my wife) "in" my business and I shouldn't be "in" her business.   We are still working through years of enmeshment and not knowing any better.  But I am convinced that boundaries have been my number 1 tool for digging myself out of the mess I was in.    As for the Christian aspect of my relationship with my wife, I've given it a rest.  Her faith is her business, mine is my business.  I really don't think we are that far apart in belief, but she seems to mold her "religious questioning" of me to fit her mood.  As a female pastor, you may find this story interesting.  The last big religious discussion, where my wife sort of melted down was about the issue of the role of women in the church.  I don't believe that the letters from Paul are saying that all churches must put women only in certain roles.  I think the letters were specific to the churches he wrote to.  I've felt this way my entire adult life.   Well, out of the blue a few months ago my wife asked me what changed my mind about women in the church.  I expressed confusion and asked for clarification.  She began saying that I had hidden my "true beliefs" from her and if she had known about my views on women in the church that she would not have married me.  But, since we are married, we should make the best of it.  I didn't take the bait and JADE or otherwise argue with her, but I did ask for and receive clarification from her that she didn't believe women should be pastors or in leadership (this view changes often).  Well a week or so later she is talking about our daughters and the church and expressed gladness and support that they have no limits on their ability to serve and that she supported them serving as a pastor on in whatever capacity they are called.  I asked for and received clarification that she believes there are no restrictions on how women can serve in the church.  My guess is she was wanting me to take the bait and say "Hey, didn't you believe something totally different last week, " but I let it rest and assumed she had an interesting week in her prayer life.  How we move from interactions like that more back towards a normal Christian marriage is anyone's guess.  I do believe that she is Christian and is "looking to" Christ for guidance.  I am as well.  Christ is not "the center" of our marriage.  She will say that she wants it, I will say I want it and when we put things into practice she will (IMO) veer off on some tangent.  My asking her to pray with me is seen as "controlling".  My not asking is seen as not caring.  So, I periodically ask but mainly do my own thing.  Hope you had a good Christmas.    

FF

[Foolishwizdom]

I didn't take the bait and JADE or otherwise argue with her, but I did ask for and receive clarification from her that she didn't believe women should be pastors or in leadership (this view changes often).

Well a week or so later she is talking about our daughters and the church and expressed gladness and support that they have no limits on their ability to serve and that she supported them serving as a pastor on in whatever capacity they are called.

I asked for and received clarification that she believes there are no restrictions on how women can serve in the church.

My guess is she was wanting me to take the bait and say "Hey... .didn't you believe something totally different last week... ." but I let it rest and assumed she had an interesting week in her prayer life.

How we move from interactions like that more back towards a normal Christian marriage is anyone's guess.

I have only been on the site sporadically about 14 months and primarily on the learning or Undecided boards until the past month.  I don't even know the JADE acronym yet... .though I have FOG down.

I moved to the Staying/Improving area because as I did some discerning (mostly about whether children should be an option for us and if I was ok with not having children) I needed to get some perspective from those have stayed or decided to stay and do have families and finding it workable. I realized that maybe I should try to use this site/board as a regular outlet for coping so that I don't make things worse with my husband or vent to an extended family that already does not understand or like my husband because of his BPD/NPD.

Many people that post seem to be in crisis and I have seen mostly the 'horror stories' posted that make think I am crazy and/or selfish to consider co-parenting with my dBPDh. 

Yet the Staying/Improving section is the first area where I have really seen faith mentioned and I wonder about the role of faith in people deciding to stay. If so, is it healthy faith that allows for a detachment with grace or is it a potentially unhealthy version of faith that tries to live by the idea that staying no matter the cost is the highest moral value?   I know that healthy faith may lead different people in different directions but I have also seen too many weak resignations to status quo get couched in faith terms because of fear or comfort with the familiar.

My personality tends to some of the prophetic or at least standing firm on certain things (such as defending my call to ministry or not feeling the need to defend it, as the case may be) and I realize that sometimes that directly conflicts with BPD behaviors. Turnarounds in behavior or position can drive me crazy and while I may recognize the bait, I have trouble not taking it sometimes.  I still feel like confronting with truth could bring repentance, recognition, or healing. Or maybe I am not humble enough to say I am wrong or let him say I am wrong when I know I am "right." 

I struggle with how to detach so much from my husband's behavior without losing the ability to respond to other's that i encounter in ministry or coping in ways that seem hypocritical. Maybe these skills will make me better in the long run?  I just feel befuddled right now and am trying to come up with a vision of the future that I can accept that is not rose-colored denial.

[byfaith]

Christ is not "the center" of our marriage.  She will say that she wants it, I will say I want it and when we put things into practice she will (IMO) veer off on some tangent.

same here. If Christ is the center then what He says in His word should be applied as best we can as led to do so. So even the basic principle of do unto others as you would have them do unto you doesn't apply. I would not be able to convey that thought to her without her going off on me even if I hinted at it gently.

We can study bible subjects together that really have nothing to do with personal growth and be fine. If I pulled up a bible study for married couples and read over in 1 corinthians 7 concerning a husband and wife's marital responsibilities it would not go over well

(I have been denied intimacy for 3 years) No touching nothing... .I vent about this here. thats another subject.

My asking her to pray with me is seen as "controlling".  My not asking is seen as not caring.  So, I periodically ask but mainly do my own thing.

 

my wife will pray with me but if I go a period without asking I get labeled a failure as a christian. very discouraging.

[Chilibean13]

Yet the Staying/Improving section is the first area where I have really seen faith mentioned and I wonder about the role of faith in people deciding to stay. If so, is it healthy faith that allows for a detachment with grace or is it a potentially unhealthy version of faith that tries to live by the idea that staying no matter the cost is the highest moral value?   I know that healthy faith may lead different people in different directions but I have also seen too many weak resignations to status quo get couched in faith terms because of fear or comfort with the familiar.

I've looked at the Undecided board before but I keep coming back to the Improving site. I believe it is my faith that keeps me here. I truly believe that the Bible is the ultimate authority in my life and because of that, I have absolutely 0 reason to leave my marriage. I frequently think of Abigail, in the O.T. Her husband was a harsh man, and kind of a jerk, but she was blessed for putting God first in her marriage. I often wonder what her life was like. Did she fantasize about a life without him? How did she respond when he was being mean? She spoke with truth and grace. Will I ever be able to do the same?

I struggle with how to detach so much from my husband's behavior without losing the ability to respond to other's that i encounter in ministry or coping in ways that seem hypocritical. Maybe these skills will make me better in the long run?  I just feel befuddled right now and am trying to come up with a vision of the future that I can accept that is not rose-colored denial.

It's a hard position to be in. I am on our pastoral care team and that means I sometimes have to counsel with people going through hard times. I often feel like a hypocrite when I give advice while my marriage is in shambles or after we have been screaming at each other.

I have had to change my vision for the future. I may never be able to do the things for Christ that I want to do because of my H's mental illness. I hope that one day I can use this part of our life as a testimony, but I have to be realistic and accept that may not be. I may spend the rest of my life strugglig with this. I have to always stay rooted in the Word and find my identity in God because if not, I will become a shadow of a real person by taking on what my H says of me.

I can't imagine what it is like to have a prophetic gift and go through what our lives are like. The yearning for truth and justice in you is strong but when you are put into a situation where you cannot be straight forward, your gift is stifled. I believe there is a spiritual aspect to our pwBPD behavior and Satan uses that against our giftings. My gift is discernment. I often see how strongly Satan attacks our marriage and our minds. I truly believe that God has something big planned for us and Satan knows it. If not, why would he fight so badly to keep us stuck in this negative place?

[mywifecrazy]

I love this thread!

Unlike most that have commented here my marriage to my uBPDxw ended in divorce because of adultery. I was very angry at the time (June 2013) as you can tell by my username. My faith became real to me during this most difficult time. I kept trying to hold onto my marriage and family (2 sons) and save it even though my X was lying to me and running around on me. I remember being in so much pain and broken open that for the first time in my life I cried out to God and was solely dependant on him just to get by day by day and hour by hour. My life change when I have it all to him. All the anxiety, stress, worrying about saving my family, etc. Like someone here mentioned I focused and getting to know him better through his word and prayer as he revealed to me that my identity is who I am in him and if I focused on that he would see me through.

3 years later in a changed man in Christ. My marriage ended as my X has free will and has decided to walk away from her family and has walked away from any relationship with God. I can honestly say that I am happier than at any time in my life. Through Christ I am a better individual and father to my children. The moment I read and put into practice 1 Peter 5:5-7 is when I was finally put my life in Gods hands. And in doing so I finally experienced the meaning and received the blessings of my life verse Rom 8:28. God didn't want my marriage to fail but the moment I have it all to him he made something good out of something that was very painful. I pray that my X someday find her faith in God through Christ. Not for my sake but for her sake.

BPD and Christianity? My only experience is that I shared my faith in Christ with my X early and often in our 20 year relationship. I thought she was a believer but looking back I think she was mirroring me. After the divorce I asked her why she doesn't go to church anymore. She said "I only went because I knew it was important to you"... .Mirroring? I also have to own the fact that I was not always a good representative of a person who proclaimed to be a follower of Christ during our marriage.

I hope that everyone in this thread receive the fullness of Goods blessings in your life as you work through your relationship struggles weather married, separated, single, divorced, etc. Seek him first and in all you do!

PS. A good resource is New Life Live Radio Show and New Life TV. Dr Cloud and Dr. Townsend are involved with them. You can listen the the broadcasts online.

Peace... .MWC 

[Chilibean13]

PS. A good resource is New Life Live Radio Show and New Life TV. Dr Cloud and Dr. Townsend are involved with them. You can listen the the broadcasts online.

Do you know if this can be found in "Podcasts"?

[mywifecrazy]

PS. A good resource is New Life Live Radio Show and New Life TV. Dr Cloud and Dr. Townsend are involved with them. You can listen the the broadcasts online.

Do you know if this can be found in "Podcasts"?

Not sure about podcasts. Go to New Life Live online at:  www.newlife.com/broadcasts  here you can pull up the shows by date and see the subject matters discussed. I find it to be very therapeutic on health and healing for many issues.

MWC... .