Text Message Fights, Those Are Fun Right?

[MapleBob]

So I had another text message conversation with my ex last night that went badly off the rails. It started simply enough: we were setting up a time to talk on the phone in a few days, chatting about our respective holidays, etc. Felt nice! Felt functional!

Then she starts a fight, essentially, saying out of nowhere that I don't share enough about my life, that I'm vague, that she has never felt like she really knows me, and that she wants me to be more forthcoming. I kept my cool and validated her feelings about that, and agreed that that is sometimes a problem with me, and promised to share more with her if given the opportunity. But she clearly didn't want change, she just wanted to (text) yell at me about stuff from the past that she still apparently "gets angry about EVERY DAY." Eventually I had to point out to her that (OBVIOUSLY!) when you push someone away for ten months and demand time and space to the point of only talking once a month you just might wind up not knowing a whole lot about what's going on with them!

Ugh. This sucks. She made a reaching-out gesture clearly, and then *immediately* proceeded to sabotage it. But we're probably going to talk again tomorrow night.

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[Lifewriter16]

Oh yes, text message fights are great fun. Punctuated by the breakups that result, who can resist? Seriously though, for me, the mobile phone became an instrument of torture. It was a pity because in the early stages of the relationship, the text messages made me feel wanted.

It sounds like you can see what was happening very clearly though. That's a good thing.

Lifewriter x

[MapleBob]

Oh yes, text message fights are great fun. Punctuated by the breakups that result, who can resist? Seriously though, for me, the mobile phone became an instrument of torture. It was a pity because in the early stages of the relationship, the text messages made me feel wanted.

It sounds like you can see what was happening very clearly though. That's a good thing.

Text messages used to be our bread and butter (long distance). Now it IS like torture.

It makes me happy to hear that you think I'm seeing things clearly. That's really validating! 

It's just nuts to get pushed away, then be pretty much yelled at for being pushed away, and then told that she doesn't even actually care when she clearly actually does. 

[Knight]

I read your post here about text message fights and then my BPDgf started texting me.  I had been reading about JADE and not contributing to the fighting and I was looking at her texts and trying to validate her.  Boy was that tough... .  But it seemed to have worked. I made short comments pretty much repeating what she said, and she did not keep fighting.  She unloaded several frustrations she has, but I did not engage or explain my side.  I just attempted to validate.  But it isn't easy at all.  At one point she was pinning me down on something and I just said I don't want to talk about it, and it actually worked.  We have a history of some epic text fights, but somehow avoided it today.

[livednlearned]

Validation is hardest when we're the target, or when the comment lands somewhere emotional. Being able to validate when you're emotional is black belt stuff.

Eventually I had to point out to her that (OBVIOUSLY!) when you push someone away for ten months and demand time and space to the point of only talking once a month you just might wind up not knowing a whole lot about what's going on with them!

Like Knight said, this is JADEing (justify, argue, defend, explain). She's swinging back and forth on something, it could be anything. You're the target at the moment. She manages to find something in ALL CAPS and that makes you feel ALL CAPS in return.    It's hard stuff.

She hasn't called off the call, so that's good. How are you going to handle the topic if/when it comes up on the phone?

[MapleBob]

Validation is hardest when we're the target, or when the comment lands somewhere emotional. Being able to validate when you're emotional is black belt stuff.

I was totally validating too, it just didn't work. It was like she wanted me to just be like "yep, I'm a jerk", but I'm not going to agree with her accusations towards me that aren't entirely true. I owned my actual part in things being hard or going badly BIG TIME. But after a while, when validating isn't getting you anywhere and they're still pressing the issue ... .  super hard not to slip into JADE-ing. Especially when they're directly asking you to.

Like Knight said, this is JADEing (justify, argue, defend, explain). She's swinging back and forth on something, it could be anything. You're the target at the moment. She manages to find something in ALL CAPS and that makes you feel ALL CAPS in return.    It's hard stuff.

She hasn't called off the call, so that's good. How are you going to handle the topic if/when it comes up on the phone?

I don't know how I'll handle it. It's going to have to be addressed - we just had a huge fight about it. What I'd like to do is tell her how extreme, black-and-white, and sabotaging she's being! But I'll probably just hear her about what she wants to say, and I'll validate, and not JADE. Nggggggg, that's hard! I feel like I'm being put in this position where I have to JADE to keep her engaged.

The call isn't called off, no, but she reserved the right to call it off. I'm confident that she won't.

[MapleBob]

She actually apologized!   

[ydrys017]

The text fights with BPDw became a major issue, so I set a boundary: 'no relationship communication via text'.  I've held to it, but it's not been easy.  I have also reiterated that boundary verbally to her as of late, surprisingly she didn't argue about it. 

[MapleBob]

The text fights with BPDw became a major issue, so I set a boundary: 'no relationship communication via text'.  I've held to it, but it's not been easy.  I have also reiterated that boundary verbally to her as of late, surprisingly she didn't argue about it. 

We both tried and failed at that, repeatedly. This last one was one of the worst. Doesn't really matter now, though - just more grist for the mill.

[marshallnoise]

Those are always fun.  My wife insists she speaks more clearly over text messages.  Um, no.  She still presumes I am in her head. 

The sabotage is the worst part of it though.  Every time my wife and I get into an argument/discussion about our relationship, she eventually throws up her hands and says that it is impossible and that we might as well split up.  So then I say, "if you are gonna quit, then yeah."  Then it's my idea that she should move out. Oh lord!

[JSF13]

I feel like text fights are my normal. Like others of you have said it used to be everything to us. We would talk all day and it was always so good. So much good to talk about and I couldn't get enough of talking. Now theres maybe an hour or 2 break in the day with niceness and the rest is just her anger. She tried to tell me the other day its because she is Italian and Irish and feisty. I lately have made sure no matter how dysregulated she gets that I keep myself from going down the rabbit hole. Yesterday I said to her that we can't discuss our issues without someone mediating between us. She immediately devalued me and we haven't spoke since.

[MapleBob]

I'm hearing a lot of "my ex/so/BPD pushes me away when I don't let them rage at me indiscriminately at me (via text message, in this case)"! 

Which is funny, because the literature around BPD says to set boundaries, but it also says that you have to learn to depersonalize (for you) and validate (for them) their outbursts. Feels pretty lose-lose.

[JSF13]

I'm hearing a lot of "my ex/so/BPD pushes me away when I don't let them rage at me indiscriminately at me (via text message, in this case)"! 

Which is funny, because the literature around BPD says to set boundaries, but it also says that you have to learn to depersonalize (for you) and validate (for them) their outbursts. Feels pretty lose-lose.

I try to validate my ex as much as possible and where it is warranted. Since we started talking at Christmas I was doing very well at validating her while keeping my boundaries set. Yesterday she clearly was not ok with the fact with my text about needing someone to intervene in our issues and help us work through them. We had already discussed several times that we need this. Since were both type A personalities it makes for much head butting. She didn't like the response so we haven't spoken since. I will not allow her to rage out and put me down and if she wants to not speak to me that is on her. It is very hard to not text her but this is one of my boundaries and she has pushed and broke them every time and for my own self preservation I will not reach out. Maybe thats my own stubbornness but I after a year of being a doormat I just refuse at this point to give in.

[Anna17]

Heh, I prefer when he does his raging via text nessages... .it's a lot quieter than in person! :-)

[ydrys017]

I'm hearing a lot of "my ex/so/BPD pushes me away when I don't let them rage at me indiscriminately at me (via text message, in this case)"! 

Which is funny, because the literature around BPD says to set boundaries, but it also says that you have to learn to depersonalize (for you) and validate (for them) their outbursts. Feels pretty lose-lose.

I try to validate my ex as much as possible and where it is warranted. Since we started talking at Christmas I was doing very well at validating her while keeping my boundaries set. Yesterday she clearly was not ok with the fact with my text about needing someone to intervene in our issues and help us work through them. We had already discussed several times that we need this. Since were both type A personalities it makes for much head butting. She didn't like the response so we haven't spoken since. I will not allow her to rage out and put me down and if she wants to not speak to me that is on her. It is very hard to not text her but this is one of my boundaries and she has pushed and broke them every time and for my own self preservation I will not reach out. Maybe thats my own stubbornness but I after a year of being a doormat I just refuse at this point to give in.

Nice job JSF13, I'm in the same boat and have stuck to my boundary, it has worked. I too refuse to bear the brunt any longer.

Anna, I agree with you on the quiet aspect!  However, when the arguing / debating / raging happens in person - I've stuck to another of my boundaries: I will not allow her to rage at me, I will leave the conversation / room / house if/when necessary.  This too has worked, but she has reverted to the silent treatment - which IMO is better than the anger and raging.  I wish it was ending well, but she blames me for the ST (shock) and is planning to file for divorce this month.  Sometimes you feel like you can't make any progress at all.

[MapleBob]

Mine *never* raged at me in person. We were long distance, but I honestly believe that she wouldn't have done it in person because she probably can't stand the consequences of treating an actual person in real time the way she treats me in messages/on the phone.