Am I too critical of Father

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello All,

 I spoke to F on 12/23. Made up a stupid excuse to call and tell him I had a baby. He said congrats expressed interest in seeing child. I did this in case he changed and I did not want to deprive son of having a g father to take him out fishing, to the park etc.

He called back in mid Jan to find out if I could get info about warrants on his daughter. I said no and he said he wanted to see baby but I sounded busy as I was getting ready to leave town and he said he would call back later.

He called  yesterday and said he only has certain time slots open due to his pool league. I said we are in the process of moving and give me a few weeks. He lives 45 miles away and I have seen him 1x in 25 years.

I think he was only interested in seeing g baby so he can tell everyone his relationships with his kids are fine. He used to complain about me that I was an a-hole for going NC. His friends told me this.

I guess the response I was looking for was during the holiday break he would have tried to stop by. He did not seem too motivated at all.

I am going NC again for probably another 25 years.

Am I being too critical that he did not do things the exact way I think he should have? We all know those types who get offended over the slightest thing.  

Or am I sensing he does not have an emotional need to see and hold child?

The whole experience brought back memories of my childhood and him being "slightly off". He did not have the deep interest and emotional ties to me and I sensed it as a kid. I remember doing things in my teenage years to try to get him interested in me and it never worked. I am sensing this again.

Let's knock off the BS. If you have a newborn grandchild who lives less than 50 miles away, you show up within a day or so of hearing about the birth with lots of gifts. This is your DNA. I was extremely polite to his as well as I did not want to scare him off. He was the one dropping rude comments.

I think this is typical behavior of BPD / NPD people who know they cannot enmesh you into their craziness.

Thanks again for all your support over the years




 

[Please help]

Hello All,

 I spoke to F on 12/23. Made up a stupid excuse to call and tell him I had a baby. He said congrats expressed interest in seeing child. I did this in case he changed and I did not want to deprive son of having a g father to take him out fishing, to the park etc.

He called back in mid Jan to find out if I could get info about warrants on his daughter. I said no and he said he wanted to see baby but I sounded busy as I was getting ready to leave town and he said he would call back later.

He called  yesterday and said he only has certain time slots open due to his pool league. I said we are in the process of moving and give me a few weeks. He lives 45 miles away and I have seen him 1x in 25 years.

I think he was only interested in seeing g baby so he can tell everyone his relationships with his kids are fine. He used to complain about me that I was an a-hole for going NC. His friends told me this.

I guess the response I was looking for was during the holiday break he would have tried to stop by. He did not seem too motivated at all.

I am going NC again for probably another 25 years.

Am I being too critical that he did not do things the exact way I think he should have? We all know those types who get offended over the slightest thing.  

Or am I sensing he does not have an emotional need to see and hold child?

The whole experience brought back memories of my childhood and him being "slightly off". He did not have the deep interest and emotional ties to me and I sensed it as a kid. I remember doing things in my teenage years to try to get him interested in me and it never worked. I am sensing this again.

Let's knock off the BS. If you have a newborn grandchild who lives less than 50 miles away, you show up within a day or so of hearing about the birth with lots of gifts. This is your DNA. I was extremely polite to his as well as I did not want to scare him off. He was the one dropping rude comments.

I think this is typical behavior of BPD / NPD people who know they cannot enmesh you into their craziness.

Thanks again for all your support over the years




 

[Sunfl0wer]

You say you called in case he changed.

Assuming he has not changed... .

Can you describe what you feel you don't want in your life that led you to not have a r/s with him for so long?

(Apologies if this is stuff you have already posted about)

[Please help]

I bailed him out of jail almost 15x. He was insisting I commit serious crimes to help him. He never showed any concern for me other than what I had to offer him.

He appears to still be nothing but trouble. I was even okay with him not apologizing for everything. Instead, he is convinced I am a total jerk who  should apologize to him.

Honestly, when I read stories about guys who killed their families in a drug induced rage, I think of him. I know what he is capable of.

I myself may even be a bit off for contacting him trying to reconnect.

Hope this answers your questions.

Thanks

[HappyChappy]

Hi please help,

It must have been very difficult dealing with your father’s behaviour. Your choice of NC make absolute sense. Your frustration that he’s not acted like a farther is also understandable. I can empathise as I’m NC with my BPD mom, and she keeps sending her flying monkeys to get my attention. Then when I respond she immediately goes into cold shoulder routine. It’s not normal behaviour, but it is ‘A’ typical NPD/BPD behaviour.

I understand a BPD will only do things they see benefit them. So I’m sure you know it’s not you. Also if you go NC, they will find a local narcisstic supply, possibly his pool league, again nothing personal. Problem is, it should be personal – but I guess we lucked out on that one.

If this makes you feel any better if a jerk calls you a jerk, it logically become a compliment. Two negatives equal a positive. 

[Sunfl0wer]

 It sounds like your dad, for whatever reason, was not such a good dad to you. (Understatement)

I know many parents who were not good parents, actually turn out to be great grandparents.  However, from your description of things, your dad was not just not a good dad, but harmful to you, also a criminal, and used you for his personal gain... .without regard for consequences to you as a person/his daughter/a precious child.

It is hard for persons who do not think this way to fathom and wrap our heads around this way of self centered thinking on their part.  It can be easier to think: Hey, he is a grandpa, every grandpa has some paternal instinct to uncover.  Grandchildren are so loveable, so how could he not fall in love with his grandchild?  Well, put harshly, that can be a bit of 'magical thinking' on our part.

It sounds like your hope for him to have changed was based on the fact that you have a child?  Was there anything else you learned about him that changed to led you to reach out to him?

Do you think you are safer to contact him and have a relationship with him again?  Do you think your child is safer with him or without him in their life?

Excuse my bluntness please, I can only imagine how devastating it is to feel unsure about 'providing' a grandpa for your child and wishing your dad to behave the role of dad and grandpa!

[Please help]

I think only those of us who have lived around NPD / BPD or worked with them in a clinical or institutional (hospital or jail) setting, can truly describe them. When talking to him, it reminded me of being a kid and trying to get him to show real genuine interest. It's almost like turning on a light switch and the lights do not come on.

These people are really missing something deep within them. I almost wanted to yell "why don't you care about anything".  He would not understand. All he ever cared about was people feeding his needs and that was all.

My wife is convinced he's a great guy. This whole thing is simply two stubborn men who can't get along. I have decided not to talk to her about it anymore. She grew up in a normal household. She does appreciate my uncanny ability to quickly identify sociopaths where she works. She has not made the connection on where I learned to identify the subtle traits.

I think most of us have this uncanny ability to identify BPD /NPD. When we hear things that are "slightly off" with someone, our senses kick in. We know where to look for the behavior patterns.

It does hurt but I realize my F was only interested in what I could do for him. It's funny , I have completely written my M off. They divorced when I was young and I guess there was almost no connection between us. She was high most of the time and did abandon me.

Thanks for listening

[HappyChappy]

I think only those of us who have lived around NPD / BPD or worked with them in a clinical or institutional (hospital or jail) setting, can truly describe them.

So sorry to hear you lucked out with both parents. But all to your credit for coming out the back end of this so well grounded.  I had a very violent NPD bro, who pretty much everyone avoids, so our NC doesn’t need explaining. We wouldn’t leave our kids alone with him, because he’s a masochist with a violent track record.

But my BPD mom can charm, and yes my wife would also see it as two stubborn people. But now I’ve learnt techniques from this website, I can assert boundaries without being accused of being “too sensitive” or stubborn, as you correctly put it.

You are right about picking up on who’s got a PD. And that eerie vacant look is defiantly a red flag.  The Sex Pistols  (several  of whom are believe to be NPD) sang “I’m pretty, pretty vacant and I don’t care.” John Lennon’s lyrics are pretty vacant also. Isn’t it great we have a sole, that we aren’t vacant, that we can enjoy what delights our kids, that we can have full lives.

[busybee1116]

In a word, No. You are not being too critical of your Father. You let down your guard and had a moment of trying to have that idealized relationship we all wish we had. He just proved to you that he's still the same guy you went NC with 25 years ago. It sounds like your Dad didn't deserve another chance. Spend that love and energy being a wonderful parent to your child 

[Please help]

Thanks for the feedback. I think the fact he took three(3) weeks to respond back to my initial call was disappointing. My wife bought some food etc in anticipation of him coming to visit. This is not normal behavior for a grandparent.

I remember him and his ex wife fighting and she would say having me the troubled teen living with them was why they had so many problems. I pointed out to him I live in a different state and only communicate with him when he needs bail money. He agreed but I could tell he was more in agreement with his ex wife. I let him stay with me when they were breaking up, gave him a key , etc then he would disappear for and never call me to at least say he does not need a place or return the key. Even after I would bail him, he would not follow up with with me. Very weird behavior. I know he sniffed glue as a kid and my research says this can lead to PD's.

I was blamed for everything. I recall one of their friends lamenting about how unfortunate it is I have to live with them when they are trying to build a life together. I lived with them between the ages of 13-18. I was truly a throw away and I hated myself for many years. One of the hardest things we have to do is learn to love ourselves. That is not easy when you get no validation from anyone. Supposedly, all the problems they had were due to me. No mention of drug or alcohol abuse. I have scars on my hands from fighting my father (my fist missed his face and went through a window) while he was trying to strangle his ex wife in a rampage and I stopped him. I saved her life and she later tried to stab me to death with a pair of scissors ( that I bought her for her birthday, I might add)  My little brother told me he thought my father was going to kill everyone in the house until I tried to stop him. He then saw me miss a punch and hand went through window. At that point, little brother tried to jump out window as I was the last line of defense. Police show up with guns drawn on me and I am covered in blood. Thankfully, none of us were arrested.  I moved out shortly thereafter.

Even people on death row have parents visit them. You may ask why I am so bent out of shape over this. It's because the rejection by both parents hurt and I truly believe it's not my fault.  

I deal with younger people (18-25) who come from decent backgrounds in my work. There is something very subtle but I can pick up on how different we are. Do you know what I mean? Kids who have loving and stable homes with parents helping to get them established in life. Maybe they have a sense of innocence we do not have. I don't know.

One thing I suspect many of us have had to deal with is having everyone hating us. These PD's do a fine job smearing us and the dim-witted  go along with hating on us.

Thanks for listening

[busybee1116]

Even people on death row have parents visit them. You may ask why I am so bent out of shape over this. It's because the rejection by both parents hurt and I truly believe it's not my fault.   

I said something similar to this recently: "Even Jeffery Dahmer's mother showed up at his trial." Turns out she was likely BPD. Work on living you. You don't need to prove yourself any longer to your parents. They do not deserve it. You have given your father many many chances.

[Turkish]

Even people on death row have parents visit them. You may ask why I am so bent out of shape over this. It's because the rejection by both parents hurt and I truly believe it's not my fault.  

Ever seen the movie Good Will Hunting? The scene where Robin Williams tells Will, "it's not your fault?" Used to elicit a strong gut reaction from me every time. Obviously, that's just a movie, and not to make light of your pain at all, please help but:

It's not your fault.

I deal with younger people (18-25) who come from decent backgrounds in my work. There is something very subtle but I can pick up on how different we are. Do you know what I mean? Kids who have loving and stable homes with parents helping to get them established in life. Maybe they have a sense of innocence we do not have. I don't know.

I can relate to this, working in high tech, and seeing newly-minted college grads; whereas, I had to struggle to get in back in the day, and my mother would imply that I had made nothing of myself. It didn't hurt me to my core, but maybe. I made it despite her, not because.

How do you feel when you look at the young people you work with? Longing, regret, jealousy?

One thing I suspect many of us have had to deal with is having everyone hating us. These PD's do a fine job smearing us and the dim-witted  go along with hating on us.

You saved your father's wife, maybe her life, and yet she assaulted you with a deadly weapon. The latter would feel to me like a betrayal. On another level, like she didn't see you for you, or at all. This was not due to you, but to her lack, not your fault.

[Please help]

When I see young adults who had normal childhoods, I honestly feel happy for them. I know I (as we all have) endured trauma that reduce many to homeless drug addicts or violent career criminals. We should all be grateful we survived. Much like a Vietnam vet who goes to the traveling wall and etches the names of his buddies off the wall onto paper, there is tremendous guilt for being alive but there is also gratitude. 

The last time I spoke to my F, he fumbled and could not recall name of my child. I emailed him and mentioned it several times. It could be nothing but it could also be the fact he is in his mid 60's and has been high or drunk ( often both) since he was 15. If dementia is kicking in, this means he will never have the cognitive skills to repair all the damage between us. Therefore, I could very well be chasing shadows. Pursuing a relationship that never did or will exist.

Someone told me to go to a low-budget, state-run nursing home and you will see how PD people age. They are alone, broke and maybe have a child come by occasionally to yell at them for being such a crappy parent and the parent has no idea what they are talking about either due to dementia or blocking out all the bad stuff they did as a defense mechanism. Very rarely do they "get normal" and make amends in their twilight years. I know of someone who worked in the geriatric unit of a state prison. Old men would brag and try to out do each other with tales of rape, robbery and mayhem. There was no regret. These people have no remorse.

I think it's important for me to stop internalizing the pain and get back to living well.