Is my marriage doomed?

[Pippin83]

Hi,

My wife has said that she wants a divorce, although I convinced her to try a few more couples counseling sessions.  The couples counselor pointed out that she seemed to pull out of the relationship just as I was showing a deepening understanding of her needs.  We have been together for ten years, and her BPD symptoms have lessened due to much hard work on her part.  Now she says that she did all of the work in spite of me, and doesn't acknowledge that I have been supportive and nurturing throughout. She only remembers the times when I said that I needed her to focus more on me.  Am I kidding myself when I think we could work this through?  Has she reached the end of her capacity to be in an intimate relationship with me?  We have two young adult daughters, and the three of us will be devastated if our marriage ends. 

Please advise, even if the truth will be painful.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Turkish]

Hi Pippin83,

Where there are blades of grass in an otherwise fallow field, there is hope. It sounds like your wife isiagnised with BPD, and has been on her own therapy journey, right? How has your own jouney gone in earning about BPD and absorbing the communication tools necessary to validate her feelings and reduce conflict? We have a lot of material here, and members who can help support you 



Turkish

[valet]

Hey Pippin, the more complicated the knot, the more time and patience it will take to untie it.

I'd like to echo Turkish's questions.

Hi Pippin83,

Where there are blades of grass in an otherwise fallow field, there is hope. It sounds like your wife isiagnised with BPD, and has been on her own therapy journey, right? How has your own jouney gone in earning about BPD and absorbing the communication tools necessary to validate her feelings and reduce conflict? We have a lot of material here, and members who can help support you 



Turkish

And welcome to the boards!

[an0ught]

  Pippin,

Overcoming BPD in an ongoing relationship requires some parting, healing and rebuilding. It is also not easy to quickly sense where a pwBPD and their partner is wrt. skills and healing individually. So ... .please share more about your journey. The situation sounds complex.

,

a0

[Pippin83]

Thank you for replying- it has helped!  I have been working on validating her feelings, but she told me tonight that she is done.  We will continue to see our couples counselor for a few more sessions to help us work through how to handle things in the least painful way possible, and also with the family counselor that works with our daughter.  It will be hard not to get angry with her, which I will have to work on.  I am having a hard time finding a therapist for myself (I was in therapy until 2 years ago when I stopped for a number of reasons.  I don't want to go back to my old therapist but that may be my best bet right now).  I have also reached out to a number of friends and family members, which is helping.  I have a tendency to isolate so I was reaching out in case the break up was final. Some are helpful, but so many of them have never understood my love for my wife or why I stuck with her despite her hoarding and her extreme overspending.  The financial piece will be the second hardest- the first will be protecting our daughters. 

I will switch over to the board for relationships that are ending.  Thanks again for the support!

[Turkish]

I'm sorry it sounds like she chose to end it, Pippin. My BPD mother is a hoarder. My T said that hoarders fear loss. Others have said that it's due to anxiety, controlling their environment to self-soothe, and I'd say that the compulsive spending is a major dysfunctional self-soothing mechanism.

Since you have a child, I also hope to see you over on the Co-Parenting Board 

T

[joeramabeme]

Pippin83, Thought I would reply as I was in the exact situation you were in at this time last year; 10 year marriage, wife with BP, had done some therapy (never officially diagnosed), extreme anxiety and her stating she wanted to end marriage (no children).

First, this is not meant to discourage you, but my divorce was finalized in December and I tried to change that outcome best as I could.  There are a few things that I learned leading up to and since the divorce date that may be helpful.

First, know that there is nothing you can do to change a person with BPD.  No accident that I wrote this as the first thing.  My ex blamed me for many things that went wrong in the marriage.  I worked diligently to correct my ways; yes, I did some things that were not perfect - but I accepted far too much responsibility under the guise that she would see I was a good guy and change her thinking if I could just (fill in the blank).

Second and relevant to point #1; I have since learned that my ex was full of fear - mostly for her own perceived safety.  That fear/anxiety was expressed via control of me (blaming and Gaslighting were frequent methods she used).  She would fabricate events, edit and ad lib past conversations out of thin air and attribute my actions to her negative feelings that had no relation.  I did not know what was going on at the time, I assumed I could address what was being said; logically and rationally. BPD is a dysregulation of emotions and cannot be logically addressed.  Further, it is likely that whatever she is afraid of is related to her past rather than present moments.

For example, you come home excited with a birthday gift for her and as you close the door it produces a loud bang that frightens her.  You walk in the kitchen, gift in hand, not knowing that she is frightened and are excited because you have a gift to give.  You say, happy birthday, to which she replies; you don't care about her and how inconsiderate you are of not thinking of her by banging the door that way.  You tell her how happy you are to see her and have a gift, she gets angry with you because you are not listening to her and blames and criticizes you for being insensitive.  At this point you have 2 approaches; address her as if her feelings are misaligned to the moment and tell her that you love and care about her as evidenced by your gift and excitement to see her OR acknowledge that she is frightened and the door banging upset her, put the gift down and address and acknowledge her fear.  Make sense?

Relationships with people that have BP traits are difficult; for them and you.  At any moment, you have to be able to step back and set your own needs and feelings aside and be able to focus on two things; your loved one and what amounts to a 3rd person in the room, namely the BPD.  This is not meant to demean or minimize people with BP traits, rather to point out that there is another dimension from which they are acting that is in-congruent with the present moment you are living in. 

Many of us who have failed relationships with pwBPD traits spend time thinking over the wouldve's and could'ves; but the fact is, it is very difficult to address something you cannot see nor understand that is embodied in someone that does not understand it nor sees it in themselves.  Going easy on yourself and your loved one will make this process easier to try.

Lastly, do not push her into seeing your point of view or getting her to change her mind.  She has her reasons - right or wrong - she will perceive any attempt to change her mind as invalidating and this will have the opposite intended effect.

Keep posting on this board.  Learn and practice S.E.T. to your best ability.  She may or may not leave but what is most important for you is to be as present in the moment with your understanding as possible for your own sanity and the benefit of your children who will need a parent that can help them.

[Pippin83]

Many thanks Joeramabeme!  I am trying very hard not to invalidate her, which has been mostly successful, but not completely.  It is hard when my own pain comes up to the surface.  I am also very sad for our daughters, who were adopted as older foster children, and have experienced a great deal of loss in their lives.  They are 18 and 20, with the youngest going off to college next fall, so the timing for them is probably as good as could be hoped for, all things considered.  Also, my wife has been increasingly absent from family time together for the past year, which has hurt the girls greatly, so the separation might help them to see that they aren't to blame for this. I have done so much reading and work on myself over the past decade to be able to support my wife, and it is hard not to feel like I have failed.  Also, my wife has done a tremendous amount of work, and somehow I thought that together we had beaten the odds.  I really appreciate your point about how hard it is to understand her behavior or point of view, and how incongruent it is with my experience.

I am finding the tools on this site to be very helpful, and will continue to practice the techniques.  The posts are also wonderfully helpful - thank you all!

[joeramabeme]

Pippin83, glad you are getting some relief and help from the board.  I don't want to hijack this thread but wanted to ask you a related question so sent you a private message.

Joe

[an0ught]

Hi Pippin83,

Many thanks Joeramabeme!  I am trying very hard not to invalidate her, which has been mostly successful, but not completely. 

perfection does not matter, striving for perfection however helps re-balancing the invalidating to validating exchanges to a healthy 1:5 ratio. At the very beginning building awareness of invalidation, avoiding it  and/or biting your tongue is a good thing. In the medium term it leads to too much focus on self control and a more sustainable strategy is to find active ways for reacting in a validating manner.

It is hard when my own pain comes up to the surface. 

Maybe there are times when you can share part of it. Keep in mind however that her capacity to deal with pain is extremely limited. One way to go about would be to use SET (S=her emotions, T=your pain) and mentally commit to avoiding JADE however she reacts.

In your situation both sides have bottled up a lot of pain. Some needs to come out eventually. But then she will also be governed by a strong sense of shame so it may be a precarious balancing act.

I am also very sad for our daughters, who were adopted as older foster children, and have experienced a great deal of loss in their lives.  They are 18 and 20, with the youngest going off to college next fall, so the timing for them is probably as good as could be hoped for, all things considered.  Also, my wife has been increasingly absent from family time together for the past year, which has hurt the girls greatly, so the separation might help them to see that they aren't to blame for this. I have done so much reading and work on myself over the past decade to be able to support my wife, and it is hard not to feel like I have failed.  Also, my wife has done a tremendous amount of work, and somehow I thought that together we had beaten the odds.  I really appreciate your point about how hard it is to understand her behavior or point of view, and how incongruent it is with my experience.

You can't save your marriage. You can save yourself and work on a good relationship with your kids. You can decrease the conflict level in your marriage. That all may affect the odds of the relationship surviving and being worthwhile for her to continue. However not all is under your control.

[livednlearned]

Hi Pippin83,

I wanted to commend you for staying the course and working so hard over the years. It probably helped your kids in ways that are hard to put in words, even if things now seem precarious.

The couples counselor pointed out that she seemed to pull out of the relationship just as I was showing a deepening understanding of her needs. 

I can understand this. She may be feeling more exposed, so to speak. This could be bringing intense feelings of shame to the surface, and that can be a challenge for anyone, BPD or not. I can see how it might be hard to validate her feelings when she is discussing something as serious as divorce. Do you have a sense about whether she is looking to let off intense emotional steam here, or whether she seems to be committed to following through with divorce?

Meaning, are there inconsistencies in what she is saying (wants a divorce) and what she's doing?

I wonder if the best plan is to take a step back emotionally and let her gain some control over the threatening feelings that may be emerging.