Recovering from Codependency

[Mustbeabetterway]

Taking steps to recover from codependency is trying at best.  I am trying to be an emotional leader in my rs.  Staying grounded, etc. 


Example 1 - Earlier in the week, as we were both getting ready for work, my husband was complaining about his internist.  This doctor has seen his family for years.  He has treated my husband for years. The dr is set in his ways and not stayed up to date in my husbands opinion.  Husband rants about him and threatens to see another dr.  I said, I understand you wanting another dr.  You don't have to be angry with him go to someone else.  uBPDh became enraged and said that's it, I am done with you, etc. etc. i just decided not to take it personally, not to react to his emotional ranting and by the time we were both ready for work, we kissed goodbye and nothing else was said.

Example 2 - recently, I noticed that going to unfamiliar places sometimes results in arguments between us. I always noted that he is very routine.  We will go to the same place week after week for years until something goes wrong and he will never go there again.  I always found it annoying, but just went with it to get along.  On Friday night we went to a place near ourhome we both enjoy.  We had a nice time.  For the first time in a long time we laughed and enjoyed each others company.

Example 3 - Saturday was beautiful and we both had errands and chores separately in the morning.  We got together for lunch and then discussed gettingout and doing something fun.  Now here's the tricky part - being codependent, I have in the past made a habitof trykng to find new activities that we would both enjoy. Trying to do something that would make him happy.   He asked what is going on downtown that could be fun and I looked and found a Mardi Gras festival and it was near a historic bar that I had wanted to visit.  Well I started to think about all the times that we have argued when trying something new.  In the past 6 months about 4 times we have driven somewhere and he has ended up yelling at me about my driving or else if he was driving yelling at me and driving crazily because I didn't know exactly where to park, how to get back on the freeway

So I said to him you know maybe going downtown is not such a good idea because I don't think I can trust you not to yell at me about my driving, especially if you are drinking.

I know I didn't say that to him in a good way.

He was so angry with me.  He gave me the ST for about 2 hours during which time I cleaned house and grocery shopped.  When I got home from grocery shopping he began to yell about how I had ruined his day, I can't stand to get along... .then he threw water in my face and called me all sorts of names, which I have a boundary against so I left the room. 


I am glad we did not go downtown, I saw red flags all over it, even though it was initially my suggestion.  But, I am not happy with the resulting explosion. 

I am trying very hard to keep my enotions stable.  It is difficult and lonely. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sweetheart]

Hello Mustbeabetterway,

Staying grounded and addressing issues around codependency sound great. Focusing on you and your issues will over time improve how you feel about your relationship and your role in it. Perhaps what you are discovering in the short term is that there will be increased flash points while you navigate new territory.

I'm wondering a couple of things about your post.

1. If you want to plan and enjoy spending time together doing fun things like going to the festival, how could you encorporate this into your leisure time together? Are there ways of doing it differently where the red flags could disappear?

2. In both the conversations where your h became enraged, using validation and a SET format would probably have reduced maybe eliminated the subsequent rage and ST. How do you feel going forward with this, do you need any help with it?

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Sweetheart, thank you for your reply.  Yes I want help.  I have been trying to post posing a question and hoping for suggestions.

1.  Yes, but I don't know how.  Red flag one -   Riding in the car is a real source of conflict these days.  He suggested parking away and riding the train.  I am afraid to try things sometimes because in the recent and long ago past he has been very critical whenever we try something new he agrees to do it, but then it is like he expects me to find a patking place, know exactly how to grt there, etc.  he doesn't take responsibility.  Says sarcastic things like - you are such a great driver why cant you find a parking place, etc.  red flag two - drinking.  I would have a couple of drinks and be done.  He could sit and drink for hours. 

2.  How would you handle thr dr thing differently?  I know I did not handle it well. 

Thanks for your help!

[sweetheart]

Taking the train sounds like a good idea. Could you take public transport, is this practical for you ? ( I live in the UK, public transport is easy and often more practical than driving )

Recognising that car journeys are too difficult is a good enough reason to look at other alternatives.

So what does alternative transport look like where you are?

His drinking you know you have no control over, so if you've had enough to drink and want to leave, say so and if this causes an issue, be prepared to leave on your own.  

What sounds important are your boundaries around aspects of his behaviours.

What would a car free outing to that festival look like for you, how would you protect yourself from any dysregulated behaviour? Make a mental plan, think it through here if necessary.

For me it's being prepared to do things differently, and yes this will be scary. I remember going away for the weekend with our s7 without h for the first time. You'd think I was about to scale Everest. I was so worried and scared. It was great, and it changed my life, because it changed my priorities, from h to myself.

The Dr conversation was about him feeling invalidated when you said 'You don't have to be angry with him go to someone else.' = BOOM  

Could you try instead 'You sound concerned your doctor might miss something important, that must be worrying, how would you feel about seeing another doctor? or ' I can hear you're unhappy with your doctor at the moment, how would you feel about seeing another doctor?'

Here's a link about validating questions,

https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/07.htm

[Cat Familiar]

Taking steps to recover from codependency is trying at best.  I am trying to be an emotional leader in my rs.  Staying grounded, etc. 

Yes, it's definitely a challenge to change old patterns, both in oneself and in our relationships. Good that you're being aware of what you need to do.  

Example 1 - Earlier in the week, as we were both getting ready for work, my husband was complaining about his internist.  This doctor has seen his family for years.  He has treated my husband for years. The dr is set in his ways and not stayed up to date in my husbands opinion.  Husband rants about him and threatens to see another dr.  I said, I understand you wanting another dr.  You don't have to be angry with him go to someone else.  uBPDh became enraged and said that's it, I am done with you, etc. etc. i just decided not to take it personally, not to react to his emotional ranting and by the time we were both ready for work, we kissed goodbye and nothing else was said.

Not taking things personally allows the situation to cool off faster.  

Example 2 - recently, I noticed that going to unfamiliar places sometimes results in arguments between us. I always noted that he is very routine.  We will go to the same place week after week for years until something goes wrong and he will never go there again.  I always found it annoying, but just went with it to get along.  On Friday night we went to a place near ourhome we both enjoy.  We had a nice time.  For the first time in a long time we laughed and enjoyed each others company.

I notice that unfamiliar places trigger my husband too. And he has the same "never again" response if things are "off" just one time.

Example 3 - Saturday was beautiful and we both had errands and chores separately in the morning.  We got together for lunch and then discussed gettingout and doing something fun.  Now here's the tricky part - being codependent, I have in the past made a habitof trykng to find new activities that we would both enjoy. Trying to do something that would make him happy.   He asked what is going on downtown that could be fun and I looked and found a Mardi Gras festival and it was near a historic bar that I had wanted to visit.  Well I started to think about all the times that we have argued when trying something new.  In the past 6 months about 4 times we have driven somewhere and he has ended up yelling at me about my driving or else if he was driving yelling at me and driving crazily because I didn't know exactly where to park, how to get back on the freeway

So I said to him you know maybe going downtown is not such a good idea because I don't think I can trust you not to yell at me about my driving, especially if you are drinking.

Oops. Well you probably realize how invalidating that was, even though you've certainly recognized these patterns in the past.

I know I didn't say that to him in a good way.

He was so angry with me.  He gave me the ST for about 2 hours during which time I cleaned house and grocery shopped.  When I got home from grocery shopping he began to yell about how I had ruined his day, I can't stand to get along... .then he threw water in my face and called me all sorts of names, which I have a boundary against so I left the room. 

Yep. My husband's entire day can be "ruined" by one little misstep.

I am glad we did not go downtown, I saw red flags all over it, even though it was initially my suggestion.  But, I am not happy with the resulting explosion. 

I am trying very hard to keep my enotions stable.  It is difficult and lonely. 


You're doing good work here. Keep it up. Change is hard, but it becomes easier with time.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Thank you, Cat Familiar.  Change is hard, but I feel more true to myself. 

[Mustbeabetterway]

Thanks,Sweetheart. I will work on validating more.  I appreciate the input.  I need it,

We have to drive and park to ride mass transit.  In my work I take groups of students on tours.  No problems, no anxiety.  With my uBPDh I get uneasy doing anything new,especially something I have planned.  Any misstep on my part is cause for meltdown. 

We have been together for decades and have a grown child together.  We have travelled quite a bit and had good times and awful times. Used to, I would just go along with whatever he wanted in an effort to get along.  A lot of times, I was miserable while hewas angry or obnoxiously drunk.  Then I would just get over it in order to maintain the relationship.

Now, since working on my issues, I am considering my own comfort level, happiness, opinions, like I have not in the past.  I think that is where the rub is. 

It is very uncomfortable for both of us. 

[Notwendy]

Great start but perhaps with some fine tuning.

I was told to not use the "you " word. This is not to be WOE. The dysregulations happen and it is a chance for us to hold on to our emotions. It's a practice to avoid "making someone wrong". Also pw BPD are especially sensitive to any criticism, so what may not be a big deal to us, could be to them.

The doctor thing- it is his choice and so saying as little as possible is probably best. His body ,his doctor.

I understand you wanting another dr.  You don't have to be angry with him go to someone else.

He probably heard this as criticism. He can be angry if he wants. You were telling him how to be in a way. So, instead: "I understand wanting to choose a doctor"

"you know maybe going downtown is not such a good idea because I don't think I can trust you not to yell at me about my driving, especially if you are drinking"

This may be true, but it is triggering. When recovering from co-dependency, we have to think about what is our stuff and what is theirs. Their stuff is not ours. He can go downtown and get drunk if he wants. Your side of this is if you want to be there too.



" I don't feel like going downtown tonight"

"Sure, lets go downtown but I would like to take the train, or separate cars"

,so if he gets drunk and mean you can get home safely. You see, by saying this, you have cut off any possibility that he may behave ( even if it is remote). You are in a sense limiting his choices. Now it may have triggered him to go in two cars too, but at least you have made it about you.

The boundary for you is, if he gets drunk, you leave. It doesn't have to be I am not going because of you. It could also be "I'm not going" period. He may still feel angry and get mad, but you have made the decision according to your boundaries without basing it on him.

Progress, not perfection, but doing great. These are not mistakes, only learning opportunities

[Mustbeabetterway]

Thanks,  Notwendy.  I appreciate all of the suggestions.  I have been so enmeshed with him that it is  sometimes not easy for me to see options.  I sincerely appreciate the feedback.

[sweetheart]

  take it slowly, like you said change and the unknown is scary.

[Notwendy]

Yes, it is scary, but wonderful to take these steps. Taking it slow is OK. whatever pace we go is how we do it.

And thank you for accepting the advice. It isn't easy to have someone turn the mirror on us. You are correct , we can not see ourselves in this. This is why it is good to have trusted people do it for us, just as we would do it for them.

It is awkward to take "you" out of your vocabulary, but it is a great exercise in keeping the focus on our side of the street. After all, this is about our growth. People who are co-dependent tend to focus on other people, not themselves when examining behavior. Reframing things using " I" helps keep this focus.  It also helps us to identify our feelings ,which is something we tend to not do when we are focused on the feelings of others.

Another way I question myself is to see if I am being reactive. " I won't do this because of you" is making a decision based on another person- and also possibly blaming them " I can't do this because of you" If you weren't such a jerk, I could do this". 

" I won't do this because I feel uncomfortable" makes it about us, and then we own the decision. Or consider " I wish I could do this, but I am not certain how to do it with this person" at least opens the possibility for some choices. " I want to take this trip, but I would feel more comfortable in separate cars" is one of them.

Being co-dependent tends to narrow our choices, and so working on that may help us consider new ideas.

[waitingwife]

NW,

I think the more & more I am reading here, I feel like I am co-dependent too... .It is going to be the hardest part for me to change... .I have been feeling so low coz if all the questions my mind is throwing at me... .Especially the co-dependancy and I feel like there is some connction of me having some connection to this nature from childhood... .Due to the co-dependence, I am not ablr to crack through the empathy and validate my H. It goes back to the circle

Kf me getting upset at his action and thats why it gets so hard to validate. I tried validation last week and it worked wonders to de-escalate his dysregulation but It took me so much of reading and hard work emotionally to do that. So I have weitten to my therapist asking for an appointment to see her so that we can discuss ways of coming out of the co-dependence slowly with baby steps. I am not so proud of the fact that I have been a mess and just told H yesterday that I have resisted the urge to meet my T all of last week but I am going to give in this week and go back to see her. I love my T and in the last visits, a few monhs ago, we talked a lot about setting boundaries, etc. I didn't realize about co-dependant nature then coz I had not read so much about BPD.

[Notwendy]

Co-dependency can be hard to change, but it can be done, even one step at a time. I hope you will be easy on yourself- this isn't something I think we need to be ashamed of. For many of us, we learned to be this way since childhood. I know that for me, it was what I had to do growing up and I didn't even know that there was any other way to be.

The great part of understanding this is that we can change it. It is great that you have a T and are asking for help. These are huge steps. Pat yourself on the back for that. Part of recovering from co-dependency is knowing that it is OK to love ourselves too. Really. So do something nice for you! Go get yourself your favorite treat, get your nails done, take a nice walk in the park- whatever it is. Be good to you.