Has anybody experienced this before?

[FlyingJ]

It's been almost 2 months no contact with my exBPDgf. For those of you who don't know, I had to walk away. I was devalued and "starved" until I broke and broke it off. She couldn't break t off herself so in a way, she made me do it.

Had I known in the past what I know now, I would have listened to the gut intuition and the red flags. I think Oprah said it best... When someone tells you it shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

In the very beginning, she told me flat out that she "was crazy." Several times towards the end of the relationship she told me who "f***** up" she is. Throughout the relationship, dozens and dozens of times she asks why I love her, why I am with her. Even after discussing out love for each other she would often ask me "do you love me?" mere hours later. It often confused me and I would wonder if what we just talked about didn't register in her head.

If this girl knew there was a problem, from the very beginning with her "I'm crazy" statement and at the end with her "I'm f-up" statements, why did she devalue me and dissociate herself from the relationship? Why not really try to get help?

Has anybody experiences this?

[Rmbrworst]

Hello.

Yes I've experienced this.  My exBPD would make statements about how he didnt like himself, he had low self worth, and that he thought he needed therapy.  He said I was too good for him, etc etc etc.

These are red flags that I missed.  I just figured he was sensitive ( a quality I look for in a man ) but didn't realize it was actually . . . him having REAL problems that had REAL consequences.

It's not unique to you . . . in fact it sounds like text book BPD examples to me.

[Wantingtochange]

By reading your story I feel we dated the same girl... .I'm guessing there are others that feel the same.

The ending of your story sounds just like mine. I like the verbiage you used, "Starved you out". I can relate. Ours was so toxic that I had to leave in order to survive, I was loosing it.

Mine was diagnosed and in DBT therapy. She would admit to all of her chaos and acting out and would apologize to me for it. Then the switch got flipped and everything changed. Like you I feel she couldn't end ours either yet the whole time she continually told me she wanted to keep working on "us" and our relationship. I haven't figured that one out yet either.

I am trying to focus on my part in the relationship and take stock on what I need to work on. There seems to be a lot. She sent me a message today that sent me backwards in my recovery. I realized that her and I saw things from two very dramatically different perspectives. So with that said I will go into day 4 of N/C tomorrow, continue to detach myself, figure out what the heck is wrong with me, and continue on this site and the lessons and literature contained within.

Your not alone as I'm sure there are other's out there with similar stories like ours.

Best wishes

[lovenature]

She feels so much core shame that it is too painful for her to accept responsibility for her actions and seek the help she needs, I also was asked "why do you love me", told "you deserve to meet someone younger and have a family"; they want us to validate them, and be their for them so they can project their shame-the worse they make you out to be, the better they feel about themselves.

My best advice is to remain NC, and focus on why you wanted to be with someone who treated you the way she did.

[Lonely_Astro]

By reading your story I feel we dated the same girl... .I'm guessing there are others that feel the same.

The ending of your story sounds just like mine. I like the verbiage you used, "Starved you out". I can relate. Ours was so toxic that I had to leave in order to survive, I was loosing it.

Mine was diagnosed and in DBT therapy. She would admit to all of her chaos and acting out and would apologize to me for it. Then the switch got flipped and everything changed. Like you I feel she couldn't end ours either yet the whole time she continually told me she wanted to keep working on "us" and our relationship. I haven't figured that one out yet either.

I am trying to focus on my part in the relationship and take stock on what I need to work on. There seems to be a lot. She sent me a message today that sent me backwards in my recovery. I realized that her and I saw things from two very dramatically different perspectives. So with that said I will go into day 4 of N/C tomorrow, continue to detach myself, figure out what the heck is wrong with me, and continue on this site and the lessons and literature contained within.

Your not alone as I'm sure there are other's out there with similar stories like ours.

Best wishes

I'm pretty sure you and I dated the same girl, for sure.  J is diagnosed, medicated, and (allegedly 4 mo into) DBT.  She often asked me what OPs did (why I loved her, etc).  She also is high functioning and would admit to her creating chaos and whatnot... .but that didn't (doesn't) stop her from continuing on.  She, like yours, wouldn't officially end it either.  So, as OP said, she starved me out until I broke.  I tried for almost 3 months to keep it together.  At the very end, she tried a Hail Mary pass but I didn't take the bait.  

We went from being super close to strangers in 3.5 months.  She'll talk to me but only if I initiate the conversation (and those usually end with her ST-ing me).  She's also wrapped up in a new r/s, so she doesn't have any time/desire to be around me.  Not that I need to be around her, anyway.

I have often stopped to think about my responsibility in the r/s we had.  What did I say/do to her to cause the shift.  I have no idea.  She left me at a time that everything between us had been going well and the future we talked about having was shaping up.  I thought, in part, we were going to make it.  But, I'm here typing this and not telling a success story, so that obviously didn't play out like I had hoped.

So, to OP: you aren't alone.  

[apollotech]

Hi FlyingJ,

Yes, I heard those exact same statements about herself come out of my BPDexgf's mouth. She knew that the had "issues" as she called them, but in her mind, it was the responsibility of everyone around her to learn to cope with/deal with her issues. She never took responsibility for anything.

IMO, as long as they are enabled, they won't seek help in fixing themselves. They have lived their lives using people and disposing of people as needed. Until that is no longer possible, IMO, they won't look at themselves, their actions/behaviors, as the cause of their own misery. Emotionally they are children, so they approach life/go through life as children. If one person doesn't meet their needs at the time they'll discard that person and attach to another person. I don't believe this is maliciously done, it's just a product of the disorder.

[FlyingJ]

She feels so much core shame that it is too painful for her to accept responsibility for her actions and seek the help she needs, I also was asked "why do you love me", told "you deserve to meet someone younger and have a family"; they want us to validate them, and be their for them so they can project their shame-the worse they make you out to be, the better they feel about themselves.

My best advice is to remain NC, and focus on why you wanted to be with someone who treated you the way she did.

Thank you all for your responses.

What core shame? Things that I don't know about? Guilty conscious? I often read they feel extreme core shame, but is this built up from their life or just the relationship. Even in regards to her not being able to break up with me even though she had one foot out of the door for a whopping three years (aka - the entire time).

[thisworld]

What core shame? Things that I don't know about? Guilty conscious? I often read they feel extreme core shame, but is this built up from their life or just the relationship. Even in regards to her not being able to break up with me even though she had one foot out of the door for a whopping three years (aka - the entire time).

Our friend FHTH once wrote here "Guilt says I did something bad, shame says I am bad, much more noxious." Elaborating on the difference, Dr.Richard Moskovitz says "When we feel guilt, we expect retribution for what we've done. When we feel shame, we expect contempt from others and feel contempt for ourselves." (For reference, here is where I read it: www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/drm10shame.html) He also says that shame has many roots but it's a natural consequence of abuse and neglect and relates this with the contempt the abuser shows to the abused. When we say the word abuse, I think many of us visualize extreme conditions but my personal experience with my low-grade, non-grandiose NPD mother has been that a child doesn't need that much to experience and own this kind of shame. I mean, my mother - despite her 100% lack of validation and empathy- has been quite a good mother in some other senses. Interestingly, I have received more support (albeit never emotional) from her in some areas than my friends whose mothers were emotionally more available. At one point in my life, I experienced her as an emotional sadist (agreed at the time by my therapist). I think maybe she gave me all that support because as her object and extension I had to be X,Y,Z. Still, our home was not extremely abusive. I was never hit, sworn at, not openly humiliated in front of others directly. Still, something in this home gave me that strong feeling of core shame. At one point, I experienced it with all my body. I think with BPD it's probably much heavier - but I don't know for sure. My personal opinion is that life experiences adds to this unless you do something about yourself because a life organized around this shame doesn't bring many positive experiences anyway.  

On a different note, yes, I have experienced what you are describing with all abusive people in my life. I believe they speak a lot about themselves actually, if we learn to listen and ask the right questions. A cerebral narcissist did this, my BPD ex with strong narcissistic traits did this. In the beginning of our relationship he told me that he was "uncontrollable" and many more things along those lines. Boy, was he right I saw the red flags but reacted to them and to my gut wrongly. I read somewhere years ago that sometimes people do this to get a bit of subconscious relief - this is called absolution if I'm not wrong, but I may be so please take it with a grain of salt. In my ex's case, I believe this was also a way of creating an identity as well as seeking some kind of affirmation or validation sometimes.

How did you react to your ex-girlfriend when she told you that she was crazy or effed up? I sometimes can't believe myself because I just hushed aside so many things that he said and managed to rationalize the red flags.

[Ab123]

My ex would often ask why I liked him, and express concern that is "isn't a nice person".  He had this whole story about how "he is a warrior" to justify some of the bridges be burned with others in his past. He is a nice, caring person, who really wants to be good. But, he is out of control obnoxious when stressed/angry. He obviously feels a lot of shame, and that leads to all kinds of unhealthy behavior.

It is hard to see the shame/doubt as a red flag though. I actually think it is a sign of self awareness and a real desire to get better. But, for my ex, now isn't the time and he isn't ready. (Although it may be that he is much better than when he was younger. I suspect, from his stories, that is the case.)