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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.
Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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I was crazy in love with an illusion
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virtus
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Posts: 17
I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
on:
February 10, 2016, 09:34:54 PM »
I met S at my AA homegroup. She is beautiful and sexy and we both were coming out of troubled relationships. We immediately spent alot of time together. She told me she was crazy but i was so focused on wanting to be with her, I ignored this and several other red flags. I was a gentleman and didnt make an effort to get intimate with her for a while. Once I did, she told me you and I are never going to "be like that". We both would talk about our exes. Hers was narcisisstic (i found out later that most of what she said about him was actually the opposite of the reality, speaking with him directly after the end of our relationship) I fell hard and fast and she made me wait to have sex. She played mindgames with me up until that night. On the way to the store to get munchies, out of the blue she said "get some ribbed condoms" At the store O discreetly asked the clerk for the condoms and standing there with me she embarassed me and said put rhose back, what were you thinking? Time past and i thought we were actually bonding and harder and harder i fell. She asked me to attend an appointment with her to address her inabilty to climax because one of her meds I had been on years before and it prevented me from climaxing. She was off the med a month and no more problem. There were times when she avoided me for no reason, once for 8 days.
I bought her alot of gifts, paid for just about everything she needed becuase she didnt work. I dodnt mind rhis most of the time becaise i loved her. She was living with her sister and things were getting more and more strained at home for her. In May 2015, I suggeted she move in with me, gave her a claddagh ring which we agreed meant we were commited to each other. Almost immediately fights happened. She called me Dr Phil and the long arguments, all starting with me trying to set boundaries and trying to make her see that she cant be cold, unaffectionate, nasty and belittle me if she loves me. The whole while Im payong all her bills and household bills. She got a job and lost it within 2 weeks. She told a friend, dont tell him but i want to go the beach everyday and not work. Wed fight and shed say "your house that I fellate you in" (said not so eloquently. She justified not working, me paying for everything, and being nasty, cold and unaffectionate with her having sex with me. Transactional relationship?
We went on several trips together, concerts, casinos. There were what i thought were genuine loving times but they were few and far between. Our relationship ended November 2015 when she got violent with me. Punching me hard, biting, scratching and a veiled threat with a knife. Sometimes i regret going to the police the next morning and getting a restraining order. Since the breakup, going to court 3 times and several visits to get her cats and belongings, each time she was unbelievably nasty. I was devastated by this experience and am just now coming out of the fog. Ive seen her a few times and she uses these opportunities to torment me. How can one be so good to a person that professes to love you be so evil? Dont get me wrong, Ive realized i played a role by putting up with the insanity and not standing up for myself.
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apollotech
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
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Reply #1 on:
February 11, 2016, 09:57:26 AM »
In May 2015, I suggeted she move in with me, gave her a claddagh ring which we agreed meant we were commited to each other. Almost immediately fights happened.
Hi paulmac 1968,
Welcome to the boards! Although, I am sorry that you have found yourself in a relationship that grants you membership to our club. There are many helpful resources connected with this site. I encourage you to use them all on your healing journey, especially the support from fellow members; their own personal experiences/testimonies will definitely broaden your understanding of what you've been through. You'll also see that you weren't the only person that's experienced one of these chaotic relationships.
What I am about to say will probably not make sense to you right now, and that's okay; just stick it somewhere in your mind for safekeeping. Hopefully it'll afford you an "ah ha" moment somewhere down the road. (I don't know if your ex is actually afflicted with BPD, but what follows is written under the assumption that she is a pwBPD.) I'd like to address your thread subject a bit, and why you saw the sudden change in your beloved (at the time). You actually didn't fall madly in love with an illusion; the person that you fell in love with was her, and most likely any affection/love she expressed towards you was likewise, very real. (I don't want to get into a mirroring discussion here, other than to say that even the result of her mirroring you, was to her, quite real; that was who she was at the time. A pwBPD has an incomplete/fractured self, so they emulate, mirror, others in an attempt to become whole. That's a product of the disorder, which, IMO, is them.
They
cannot be split from their disorder.) So don't feel as if she became someone "good" to draw you in, and once she had you, she became her real self, the bad self. No, both were her.
Ah yes, now the bad, hurtful her. Again, if your ex is afflicted with BPD, that act of moving in with you, the ring, and/or the pledge of commitment could have easily triggered engulfment issues within her (engulfment =
fear of losing one's self
). Many people with BPD don't handle closeness/intimacy very well. You'll see many examples on the boards just like yours---as soon as commitments are made the pwBPD will become someone else, a destructive someone else---"Almost immediately fights happened." Arguing/fighting is a very maladapted coping mechanism that a pwBPD will use in order to create distance between them and their beloved in order to abate their own engulfment issues. It wasn't about you personally; although, it was directed at you. When engulfment is triggered, all the nastiness comes to the surface, anything to push someone away. That too was/is her. She wasn't hiding that part of her from you; you just where never exposed to it before because the circumstances weren't present to trigger it (Make sense?).
Hopefully what I have said here will help you see that you indeed didn't fall for an illusion. Both parts of her that you experienced were/are really her; unfortunately, especially for her, there is a mental disorder underlying all of her.
Godspeed to you on your journey of understanding and healing.
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Lonely_Astro
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #2 on:
February 11, 2016, 10:21:24 AM »
Well said, Apollo.
The hardest thing to wrap around is that everything that was said and done during the r/s was true and real... .up until it wasn't. This is why the endings of these r/s are so hard. People often say the feel like they had met their soulmate. At the time (that statement is the key!), you had. But, you two were viewing the r/s in two very different ways.
My ex is diagnosed. She is also medicated (while there is no medication for BPD, it can help with other issues) and also started DBT in mid-Sept of 2015. I also knew she was BPD (we had had a 4 mo r/s 3 years prior to a new one), I had consumed all sorts of information about BPD, validation techniques, etc. if ever there were a chance for success, I feel we had it. We got super close over the period of a year. There had been issues, which I expected, and we had dealt with them as they happened. Was I perfect all the time? Of course not. I'm human. I'm also not a mind reader. Anyway, things were going super well until she left. It was a slow burn, but I saw it. I tried to fix it, but it didn't happen.
I tell you all this because I wanted you to know my story. The odds were all in my favor, the best they could be anyway, and I still lost. If I had all those things on my side and still didn't succeed, how could you see going into something you don't know or understand would yield a better result? I'm not minimizing your story, at all. You did the best you could with what you were working with at the time. You protected yourself after she attacked you. That's what you should've done.
Her being "nasty" toward you isn't about you, as strange as that sounds. When we are split black, we become the embodiment of shame/guilt/hate/rage for them. There's nothing we can do to get split white again, this all takes place in their heads.
BPD or not, she certainly has issues. But the main question now is: how are you doing now?
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shatra
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #3 on:
February 11, 2016, 12:30:45 PM »
appollo wrote--
She wasn't hiding that part of her from you; you just where never exposed to it before because the circumstances weren't present to trigger it (Make sense?).
-----This is mostly true. It is true that the "negative" parts of them get triggered by closeness. I would say though that she was hiding part of herself too... .in the beginning, they present the mask of the ideal self to hook us in and get us to like them... .after awhile their negative BPD traits emerge. This would happen even if Lonelyastro hadn't gotten closer and more committed.
The negative traits come out partly after time goes on and the mask slips, and partly when closeness triggers them
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Bigmd
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #4 on:
February 11, 2016, 01:12:52 PM »
PM1968 , I can totally relate. In the summer when me and my exgf started talking about moving in together, selling my house and getting engaged was when the relationship took a turn. The fights and silent treatment happened more often up until the breakup in July. This happened over the phone. She blamed me for everything and discounted anything I had to say. I knew nothing of BPD at the time. Now I realize this was probably engulfment . We've talked twice since then. They didn't go well.
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apollotech
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #5 on:
February 11, 2016, 01:18:14 PM »
Quote from: shatra on February 11, 2016, 12:30:45 PM
appollo wrote--
She wasn't hiding that part of her from you; you just where never exposed to it before because the circumstances weren't present to trigger it (Make sense?).
-----This is mostly true. It is true that the "negative" parts of them get triggered by closeness. I would say though that she was hiding part of herself too... .in the beginning, they present the mask of the ideal self to hook us in and get us to like them... .after awhile their negative BPD traits emerge. This would happen even if Lonelyastro hadn't gotten closer and more committed.
The negative traits come out partly after time goes on and the mask slips, and partly when closeness triggers them
Shatra,
Personally, I don't place much stock in the "mask" analogy/theory. That implies that a pwBPD knows exactly who they are, knows that they are abnormal, and therefore, must conceal said abnormality. That also implies that they also have enough control over themselves to hide who they are. I just don't see that level of control in a pwBPD. I don't believe a person will see/experience the most destructive parts of BPD until the pwBPD has formed an emotional attachment (emotional intimacy) with said person. At that point, engulfment can be triggered and the nastiest of the maladapted coping mechanisms (pushing maneuvers) come into play. Or, the pwBPD rejects their partner as a bonding candidate. For everyone else, I think the majority of pwBPD appear quite normal, even charming.
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peace74
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #6 on:
February 11, 2016, 03:18:54 PM »
Quote from: apollotech on February 11, 2016, 01:18:14 PM
Quote from: shatra on February 11, 2016, 12:30:45 PM
appollo wrote--
She wasn't hiding that part of her from you; you just where never exposed to it before because the circumstances weren't present to trigger it (Make sense?).
-----This is mostly true. It is true that the "negative" parts of them get triggered by closeness. I would say though that she was hiding part of herself too... .in the beginning, they present the mask of the ideal self to hook us in and get us to like them... .after awhile their negative BPD traits emerge. This would happen even if Lonelyastro hadn't gotten closer and more committed.
The negative traits come out partly after time goes on and the mask slips, and partly when closeness triggers them
Shatra,
Personally, I don't place much stock in the "mask" analogy/theory. That implies that a pwBPD knows exactly who they are, knows that they are abnormal, and therefore, must conceal said abnormality. That also implies that they also have enough control over themselves to hide who they are. I just don't see that level of control in a pwBPD. I don't believe a person will see/experience the most destructive parts of BPD until the pwBPD has formed an emotional attachment (emotional intimacy) with said person. At that point, engulfment can be triggered and the nastiest of the maladapted coping mechanisms (pushing maneuvers) come into play. Or, the pwBPD rejects their partner as a bonding candidate. For everyone else, I think the majority of pwBPD appear quite normal, even charming.
Very interesting. I will agree that most of the destructive effects of BPD aren't done intentionally and are due to being triggered by intimacy and closeness. However, I do believe they are very capable of putting on masks. I think all human beings are capable of putting on masks in different situations to varying degrees and I don't think pwBPD are an exception. One day my BPDex and I were on our way to visit with friends. We had our son with us who was 6yrs. old. My BPDex was being very irritated and grumpy the whole ride there. He was being argumentative with our son like he was a six year old himself. Our son was not doing anything wrong it was my ex who was acting out. He even threatened to smack him. For 30 minutes it was a very unpleasant drive. About 2 minutes before we would arrive his demeanor changed and he said to our six year old that when we got there they were both going to get along, etc. etc. As soon as we got there he was the most pleasant person. He acted like father of the year and the way he interacted with our child was totally different and this was all a conscious choice. I've seen him do this in different situations to varying degrees a thousand times. If it wasn't a conscious choice it would not even be possible to do this. He definitely wore masks. They may have changed to suit the people we were around or the situation but he wore them.
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apollotech
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #7 on:
February 11, 2016, 07:05:14 PM »
Hi peace74,
I agree with what you're saying about general mask wearing, but I was speaking of a much more sophisticated degree of mask wearing---a level of planned, controlled, malicious mask wearing meant to deceive in order to achieve an end goal. I just don't think that a pwBPD has enough going on behind the mask to pull that off; there are just too many very fundamental identity issues going on.
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cosmonaut
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #8 on:
February 11, 2016, 07:25:12 PM »
Quote from: apollotech on February 11, 2016, 07:05:14 PM
I agree with what you're saying about general mask wearing, but I was speaking of a much more sophisticated degree of mask wearing---a level of planned, controlled, malicious mask wearing meant to deceive in order to achieve an end goal. I just don't think that a pwBPD has enough going on behind the mask to pull that off; there are just too many very fundamental identity issues going on.
I think that is the clinical view. BPD is characterized by highly impulsive coping mechanism behaviors. pwBPD react. That's an important point. pwBPD aren't sociopaths even if their behavior is very hurtful and even cruel. Sometimes pwBPD do "punish" someone, but it is often retaliatory. Even if the offense is not a rational belief. Since feelings are facts, they often aren't rational. Still, in the mind of the pwBPD you are the cause of their immense pain and thus deserve your punishment.
In terms of mirroring, this is a deeply subconscious behavior. pwBPD are not con artists. They are desperately seeking to please - to such a degree that they will make themselves subservient to the attachment. They will mold themselves however they perceive the attachment most wants them to be. This is not the controlling, manipulative ways of the sociopath. This is the way of the abandoned child desperate for someone to care for them. pwBPD can feel tremendous resentment about this process. They can feel like they have sacrificed everything for the sake of their partner, given them everything - even themselves. If they then feel that the partner has failed them in not being the impossibly perfect partner who will make them whole that can trigger significant resentment and simmering anger.
So, yes, pwBPD can be chameleons. They certainly can engage in significant mirroring behaviors. Not all pwBPD do this, but unquestionably some do. It is important to realize the clinical aspects of this behavior, however. It is not something that is done maliciously. In fact, quite the opposite. It is a desperate attempt to please the attachment.
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Larmoyant
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #9 on:
February 12, 2016, 12:04:39 AM »
I often feel like I was in love with an illusion as well and I'm very confused about whether they meant to be cruel or not.
Cosmonaut you wrote “pwBPD aren't sociopaths even if their behavior is very hurtful and even cruel.”
There were many times that I thought my ex was deliberately trying to hurt me, leaving me stranded, humiliating me in public, keeping me waiting out in the cold, empty promises, and when in a rage he seemed to ‘enjoy’ making me angry or cry. This caused me immense suffering. Is it possible for some people with BPD to have sociopathic traits too? I’m trying to reflect back to what may have occurred prior to these things. I can see how many were related to his irrational jealousy and maybe some could be associated with engulfment, but what about leaving me waiting in the cold at a train station for two hours, what about referring to women in derogatory ways knowing full well I’d object and get upset. He seemed to 'enjoy' my reactions whether I became angry or more likely upset, crying. One of the things keeping me in my relationship was that I felt sorrow for him being afflicted with BPD traits. It kept me stuck because I kept saying to myself that "he doesn't mean it" and/or "he can't help it". The outcome of that kind of thinking has led to my downfall and I'm now an emotional wreck. I’ve read that many people with BPD are high in narcissism. Could this explain it?
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Inharmsway
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
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Reply #10 on:
February 12, 2016, 01:36:15 AM »
Hi ipaulmac1968,
Metaphorically speaking, I'd say I share your sentiments of having being in love with an illusion. I also understand where ApolloT is coming from.
I'm not clinically qualified to analyse my uPwBPD's behaviour. Whether it was contrived or not is really Immaterial at this point. We ought to remember that not all BPD's are the same. Perhaps others do intentionally conceal their true intentions until they have you. This can also easily be translated as "they act out or are triggered once they are attached and feel comfortable with the attachment".
I was fortunate in that mine did share this with me early on but I didn't know what it all meant as I was mesmerised by the attention I was getting. I didn't even know BPD's existedexisted. He said "be careful because I attach easily to people" and later on said, I " I have to warn you that I can be a bit much". subtle warnings which fell on deaf ears. As we progressed from being friends to lovers, that's where ish started hitting the fan. I saw what everybody would call their hidden self. I think ApolloT is correct in saying, but those traits were there all along however a situation to trigger them wasn't present.
He would always act out when there was perceived threat of abandonment or engulfment. That way he knew he had control and kept me an arms length. Silent treatment, underhanded insults masqueraded as compliments. Immense fear of rejection and hatred he had for himself. I'd like to say he consumed my affection in controlled doses and discarded what he considered to be dangerous excess. I can only imagine how difficult life must be for a person to live like this.
In closing, I I'd say yes " we fell for an illusion". But the illusion wasn't the pBPD. It was what we created in our own mind and hoped that we'd have this fairytale r/s based on our imagination.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #11 on:
February 12, 2016, 01:49:51 AM »
Inharmsway.
One of the biggest misconceptions about BPDs is that they live this difficult life, that somehow what they did to you has just shattered their world. Not so, BPDs have no problems moving on... .and many BPD will ghost or stonewall you. All the while out having a great time with someone else. See according to many on this site, the BPD is emotionally immature, that of a 3 year old, though I know of no 3 year olds that date. Many want to make excuses for he behavior, don't be that person. Treat them as they treat you.
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Inharmsway
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #12 on:
February 12, 2016, 10:18:39 AM »
Jonathan, Wow!
You wrote as if you knew my ex. I decided to go NC almost 2 years ago and we haven't been in contact since. Strangely we didn't even block each other's mobile number or emails etc. Perhaps he has stonewalled or ghosted me, I I'll never know but I'm happy that he's gone and that I'm free and took my lesson with.
I made my intentions clear that I'm cutting contact and he's never bothered me since. What I know is that the very next day he was hitting on my friends on dating websites offering sex to strangers etc. This made me wonder if wasn't discarded long before I realized. I just clung and hung on due to my insecurities.
I don't despise him one bit even though I was played. Perhaps I secretly thrived on the push/pull and the drama.
One thing I took from this pseudo-relationship was the lessons about my own issues and weaknesses. I'll forever be greatful for having met him, for if I hadn't I probably would've wound up in a vicious and perpetual cycle in these types of relationships.
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shatra
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #13 on:
February 12, 2016, 11:33:45 AM »
apollotech wrote---
Personally, I don't place much stock in the "mask" analogy/theory. That implies that a pwBPD knows exactly who they are, knows that they are abnormal, and therefore, must conceal said abnormality. That also implies that they also have enough control over themselves to hide who they are. I just don't see that level of control in a pwBPD.
-----The majority I have seen'read about do exactly that... .they realize they are defective (goes along with their low self-esteem), and they know that to pull us in, they need to present a mask of greatness/normalcy. Otherwise they feel we'd reject them if we saw their true colors right away. This also relates to the mirroring they do---they think that in order for us to like them they need to mirror us. The mask and mirroring are not always conscious, and not always something the BPD will admit to, but it happens
Apollo wrote--
I don't believe a person will see/experience the most destructive parts of BPD until the pwBPD has formed an emotional attachment (emotional intimacy) with said person. At that point, engulfment can be triggered and the nastiest of the maladapted coping mechanisms (pushing maneuvers) come into play. Or, the pwBPD rejects their partner as a bonding candidate. For everyone else, I think the majority of pwBPD appear quite normal, even charming.
---True they seem charming to outsiders, but people closer see behind that mask. True that engulfment fears can trigger the neg. BPD traits. It is also a result of letting down their guard (or mask) once we are already hooked and they feel they have pulled us in. Then the true person emerges, with good and bad traits
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apollotech
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Re: I was crazy in love with an illusion
«
Reply #14 on:
February 12, 2016, 12:54:51 PM »
-----The majority I have seen'read about do exactly that... .they realize they are defective (goes along with their low self-esteem), and they know that to pull us in, they need to present a mask of greatness/normalcy. Otherwise they feel we'd reject them if we saw their true colors right away. This also relates to the mirroring they do---they think that in order for us to like them they need to mirror us. The mask and mirroring are not always conscious, and not always something the BPD will admit to, but it happens
Shatra,
Again, what you are implying here would take a whole self for the person with BPD, plus control of that self---chaotic, intense interpersonal relationships, impulsivity, fear of abandonment/engulfment, emotional dysregulation, self-mutilation/suicide, substance abuse, reckless behavior, etc. Not characteristics of someone that's in control of themselves. The mirroring is not to attract, the mirroring is their attempt at becoming whole. Think idealization here, we were perfect in every way, until---no, we're not perfect, just human, flaws and all. That's the moment that a pwBPD realizes that they cannot complete their "wholeness" with their current imperfect Non. (This begins the susequent cool down period that you'll read about on these boards followed by the Non being discarded by the pwBPD, usually happening "just out of the blue" to the Non. A quick, brief text or email from the pwBPD, and it's over.) This is why idealization becomes shorter and shorter and less intense each subsequent recycle (We weren't fit the first time, why would we be the second, third, fourth, etc. time?). Granted, some pwBPD can negate this to some degree and stay in long-term, monogamous relationships with one person. Yet, even those relationship are still unstable.
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