I am SO messed up With This Relationship.

[aristan2000]

I don't know what I want really. I met my EX-GF last August through her daughter. She is in her late 40's, very good looking with a svelte, nice body. She was married from her late teens to her late 30's to a very abusive man who was a criminal and drug addict. She had two children by this man: a 30 year old daughter and a 23 year old son who looks and acts as if he is about 16 and has been in trouble for drugs, petty theft and suffers from seizures. While her first husband was in prison, she met a guy in a bar who she became pregnant by and ultimately ended up being her common law husband after their now 10 year old son was born. Later, her older son, then 11, found his father dead on the floor from a heroin overdose and obviously the child was traumatized,  I met her first at her daughter's house one day after she friended me on Facebook after her daughter, so this was the beginning of August, 2015. We initially made plans via FB to get together for coffee, but mostly due to my being so busy and preoccupied, I never got around to it and she and I did chat on Facebook for the next few months, but didn't once come close to meeting up. Finally in early November, she ended up working as a cashier at the same supermarket I had been working at (also as a cashier) and the first day she worked together she asked when we were going to go out for Coffee. I responded that I now would know her schedule (since we worked together) and that we should be able to get together soon. That evening she messaged me on Facebook and told me that she needed "some loving" and I was surprised at the rather blatant comment, but understandably happy about it. At work we managed to take a break together and had our first kiss at the coffee shop. For the next few weeks, we progressed at a frustratingly slow rate in terms of affection. She always seemed to have an excuse as to why we couldn't get together and our physical relationship was limited to mostly kisses on the lips, hand holding and such. At one point we did French kiss for a moment, but I was getting a bit frustrated that the teenager we worked with who were dating we're probably doing much more than us middle aged folks. After about three weeks, she finally came over my place alone and we made out heavily without having sex. I thought at the time that this night was a break through. A few days thereafter, we attempted to have sex one morning and unfortunately I experienced erectile dysfunction. She acted as if this didn't bother her, but it bothered me a lot. She would frequently call me 'limp biscuit' after this, even though I immediately made an appointment for the doctor's the next day and withing a week I had a prescription for Viagra. When we made an initial time to finally have sex after my getting the Viagra, but she declined last minute saying that she was feeling too ill (She is almost always ill it seems) and then accusing me of being "angry" at her because of some innocuous response I texted her that didn't indicate anger. By the way, I am a single father of four young kids 7, 9, 11 and 12, who where basically abandoned by their mom and as such, they do have some damage from this.  From early on, she talked about me, my four kids, her sons (23 and 10) all living together and even asked my kids what they'd think of her as their mom. I was honestly believing at this point that my prayers had been answered and that I found the perfect woman for me. Then things started to get very weird. She continually asked for favors (we live only a few minutes apart) such as picking up smokes for her and her son (who is on disability, btw and doesn't work) One day I was driving somewhere with her son when he said "How come you could ****that fat chick (my ex wife) and you couldn't get it up for my mom? My mom said she was playing with it for an hour!" I was shocked that she would share this information with her own son, but that was just the tip of the iceberg. He would regularly ask her if she had relations with any of his friends  and she would also make comments about how big his father's penis was ect, ect... .It just came across as kind of uninhibited and inappropriate. She also made a point of telling me on numerous occasions that she could "get any guy she wants" (and she is very hot and sexy, so she isn't being too conceited here) and about guys she fooled around with. I didn't have much of an issue with this as I'm not really inclined to jealousy and took as sort of quirky, but harmless, behavior. In any case, I had a problem at the beginning of January that caused me to have to leave the area for a 24 hour period to visit my mother. She agreed to watch my four children that night and this is where things started to spiral downwards quickly. I was reluctant initially to leave them with her as she gets overwhelmed easily, but left them I did. My kids and hers were not all on their best behavior and during the course of horsing around her two sons (the ten year old and the 23 year old who seems like a kid) knocked over a new TV set and broke the screen. Later when she was setting limits on the kid's behavior, she apparently heard my 7 year old son call her an obscenity. She reacted very badly to this apparently and cried for quite some time. My son was yelled at by his other siblings for his behavior and told by them about how nice she was to them. She ended up calling me when I was on Amtrak and even said that we "needed to talk" when I returned. When I did drive back the next morning, she insisted I stop at her house first and I did. We talked, I apologized for my son's behavior, everything seemed ok and I returned home that morning to get a few hours sleep. Later that evening when I was about to pick up my kids at day care, my neighbor mentioned to me that my tire was flat. I didn't think it was that big of a deal but I ended up dropping the car off at her house and she helped me pick up the kids up. I called a friend of mine who is a former co-worker, an 18 year old kid she has met through me before (we actually worked with his identical twin brother at the store, but that comes into play later) to help me change the tire since I was having a problem with it. As he was changing the tire, she mentioned that despite being thin, he was "strong" and that he was "cute." I thought that a 48 year old woman saying this about an 18 year old boy was a bit odd, but didn't make much of it. We all hung out there for about an hour afterwards and then left. She seemed like something was bothering her a little, but I wasn't sure. About an hour later I looked at her Facebook page and there was a post where she told people she wanted to tell somebody something, but didn't want to "hurt them." I knew it was about me. I called her right then and he son answered (which was unusual) and said she was taking a shower. I finally managed to get her to respond and she said the post wasn't "about nobody" despite her clearly stating that it was about an unnamed person. I didn't challenge this and she reassured me that it had nothing to do with me. I wanted to believe this, but I didn't. The next morning she texted me and told me she had confused feelings. I asked if they were about me and she finally said "yes." We agreed that we would talk over at her house and we did. She said that she felt a lot of guilt seeing me because her younger son's father was still living there from Friday evening to Monday morning (he's a truck driver and gone most of the week) even though, according to her, they have not had sexual relations in over a year. She was talking about reconciling with him in order to make her ten year old son happy, despite that fact that her kid's father regularly is verbally abusive and disparaging to her. She said that if it couldn't work out with him we could be together possibly we talked and worked out some issues (she has never thought much of the way I keep my home and she hated the fact that I had three cats, she did not want the cats around. Later that same evening, she did call me and told me that her kid's dad rejected her and she said something to the effect that she's still there if I "still love her." I felt so used and betrayed. That was Friday. We talked a little bit over the weekend, but I was a bit aloof that weekend. Finally on Monday, she called me to ask if I could give her older son a ride to the store as she had a headache. I of course complied and we fell back into hanging out again even though it seemed, thankfully, more laid back. Two of my kids went bowling with her kids, things seemed better and my younger son even slept over with her son and there were no problems. We kept hanging here and there with no problems. Sometimes at her home, she would be provocative with me. For example, when my sons were in the other room she would lift he terricloth shorts to momentarily reveal her vagina and such. In the days that followed, we continued on with our "relationship." Finally two weeks ago last Thursday, I agreed to drive her to the Doctor's and her son to the probation officer. She and I were VERY touchy feely that day to the point of being inappropriate. We drove to the Kmart where she used to live and she got her prescription for Oxyconton (which she turns around and sells by the way) and we all took some. After lunch at McDonalds, we returned to her home. We continued being very sexual on the couch, though we never became unclothed. Her son even made comments about this, which isn't unusual for them, but we had to knock it off before her younger son returned from school. She told me that me and the kids should all come over and have dinner with her family. I told my kids and we made plans to come over, but this never happened. She texted me to tell me that she had "company" and that she'd contact me later. I ended up snoozing on my couch for a few hours and when I woke up I discovered a series of text messages from her that started with "They're gone" then "You mad?"and then "I'm not sure that I can be a mom to more kids right now." I finally contacted her and she told me that she had feelings for the guy who came over (to buy Oxyconton I believe). He is about 9 years younger than her at 39 and is an ex con with a bunch of assault convictions. He is also coming off of a bad relationship with a woman he has a restraining order on, if that's to be believed. He also told him (I've never met him btw) that I was using her to be a mom to my kids. My feeling is that the guy is/was a vulture trying to swoop down on the relationship. I asked her what I had to do to make things right and she told me to take things slow and don't "obsess over her." She also told me that I was "smothering her sometimes." Our conversation seemed to end ok and I was fine with her initiating contact. I didn't initiate any contact that week and she continued to call and text, but not as often as before this. She even referenced us moving in together again, but she reminded me I needed to get "my ___ together and get a better job" (Which she is right about. She's actually very correct about what's wrong in my life." Things seemed somewhat stable and I was proud of myself for not contacting her.  After a week of no contact initiated on my part, I noticed that she wasn't showing up on my chat list on Facebook and sure enough, when I checked her profile I saw the "add friend" button which showed that she unfriended me. Then I did initiate contact! I was upset. She told me she did this because I needed to "focus on my kids" (?) and I didn't really buy that answer and pushed her, but to no avail. We were still talking at least I thought. The next day her son stopped by and I mentioned to him that his mother had unfriended me and even he seem perplexed. I instant messaged her daughter who thought at first that there must be something wrong with my Facebook. Later that night she left a voicemail asking what my issue was and stating that she was not with this ex con guy and that they were just friends (I had asked her son what was up with them earlier). Again, we talked and things seemed to be fine. The next day, I noticed that her daughter (whom I had been friends with before meeting her mother) was no longer my Facebook friend. I talked to her briefly and she said she heard I was "talking ___" about her husband, by whom all accounts is very abusive with their kids) and she then blocked me. Again I called my BPD SO. At first her song again answered and I could hear her say something like "I don't want to talk about this now" and I thought I heard her say "hang up"  She did finally answer and denied saying those things and that her daughter was going through some problems with identity theft and all and that the daughter understands that she doesn't like her son-in-law. She also made reference to the fact that my daughter unfriended her on Facebook and said something like "Oh well" but I could tell it bothered her. That night, in response to her daughter and her's stupid, hurtful behavior, I posted a rant on Facebook saying that I was done with negative people who contribute nothing to my life and that I was done with whiners, complainer and tattle tales. Well, the next night she left me a message saying that she heard that I was "talking ___ on Facebook." I contacted her and asked her who was giving her this information as she should not have been able to see my posts.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[aristan2000]

When I asked her if it was a certain person: The twin brother of the 18 year old kid who she mentioned as "cute"a few weeks earlier, she denied being Facebook friends with him. When I reminded her that he had friended her on Facebook weeks before she said "Oh! I unfriended him. I'm unfriending a lot of people on Facebook, because I'm sick of the drama!" We ended our phone call. I immediately went to another account I had and looked at her profile and low and behold--they were still Facebook friends. This confused me as to why she would want me to think that they weren't Facebook friends (and still are at the time I write this). I then remembered they way he looked at her at work (she looks fantastic physically) before he knew she and I were involved and also how he responded excitedly when I made a joke a month or so earlier about us switching girlfriends (I never mentioned this to her) and I became suspicious. I texted her and asked her why she claimed to unfriend him. She became defensive and said that she "thought that she had unfriended him" which I think is unlikely. She informed me that she had blocked me on Facebook and accused me of using another page to see her profile. She accused me of being petty and stated this was one of the problems she has with me. She then she then said she was getting some sleep and didn't want to talk about it. She phoned me the next morning, but the ringer was off and I didn't see the call until minutes after she made it. I texted her that she called me and asked "what's up?" and she said she was at work. I texted back asking if everything was Ok and she texted back about six hours later with a single word ... "yeah." That was almost 72 hours ago and I haven't heard a word from her since and have no desire to contact her. This entire "relationship" has left me distressed. My questions are as follows: 1) Does she sound as if she has BPD? 2) is it likely she has moved on to a new sexual partner? 3) Would someone like this actually become involved with an 18 year old guy? I wouldn't have thought this except for her un-needed lying about him and their Facebook friendship. 3) Should I just stay away from her for keeps? Please I need some feedback. I pretty much have NPD myself and I think that caused me to be drawn to her. I am in such pain right now. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi aristan2000, welcome here. I read through some of your story, it sounds like you had a difficult time.

If I can give you some friendly advice, it would be better if you could write your post in paragraphs so it would be easier to follow  I think it might encourage memebers more easily to reply. And maybe just tackle one question at a time?

It s completely understandable that you would want to give as much information as possible and that you have a lot on your mind 

[aristan2000]

Hi aristan2000, welcome here. I read through some of your story, it sounds like you had a difficult time.

If I can give you some friendly advice, it would be better if you could write your post in paragraphs so it would be easier to follow  I think it might encourage memebers more easily to reply. And maybe just tackle one question at a time?

It s completely understandable that you would want to give as much information as possible and that you have a lot on your mind 

Scarlet. Thank you for your considerate response. I usually would be much more efficient in writing and incorporating paragraphs, but at the time I was in a bad frame of mind and didn't want to leave out any details. I apologize for that. I am just wanting to discuss this with someone and almost everyone I know has no frame of reference for what has happened to me. I hope that's understandable. Thanks!

[Sunfl0wer]

What about this woman is attractive to you? (Other than her sexiness)

Are her values in line with yours?

Can you see you and her co-parenting together?

Do you trust her?

Do you think she is available for the type of relationship you are looking for?

[aristan2000]

What about this woman is attractive to you? (Other than her sexiness)

Are her values in line with yours?

Can you see you and her co-parenting together?

Do you trust her?

Do you think she is available for the type of relationship you are looking for?

What was attractive was that she is intelligent and funny. I could see us co-parenting and I can't really trust her because she's twice broken up with me, or distanced herself, when another man came into the picture. Her lying about a FB friendship with an 18 year old guy (who I know was attracted to her) is really troubling! I'm of two separate minds on lot of this. I want to trust her, but clearly I can't.

[Sunfl0wer]

What are some of your concerns, things you do not like or feel you may need to be cautious about?

[aristan2000]

She hasn't contacted me in any way for the past six days. She unfriended me on FB over a week ago and later blocked me and we are coming up on three weeks since the last time I physically saw her, so it may be that this is totally over. When we were "together" she'd call every single day. After she had a visit from her male friend, that cooled down and she called less frequently to the point now where it's closing in on a week. She also told her daughter that I was talking trash about the daughter's husband and she blocked me, so she does seem to be burning bridges here.

My concerns are that she will become vindictive and possibly tell people that I had E.D. when I was intimate with her and that we never fully had sex. I am concerned that she is possibly involved  with this young guy and how humiliating that would be for me that a kid could have sex with her and not me.

My kid's mother was likely also BPD and came up with all sorts of lies and false accusations and such. My ex-wife did things that I never, ever imagined she would that were extremely vindictive and I fear the same with this woman even though she is a different person and the relationship was very brief.


But to be honest, part of me is hoping that we can reconcile and work things out, while the rational, self-preserving part of me thinks that's a horrible idea.

Do BPD's typically ever re-connect with somebody after all this? Or is there a typical to start with?

To me (right this moment) her actions seem to be meant to be permanent.

A little over two weeks ago, we were passionate and she told her son that we were in a "day by day" relationship when he asked her if we were going out and now... .nothing.


Maybe I sound pathetic by asking, but is it likely that she will re-contact me?

[Notwendy]

There is a possibility she may try to reconnect with you. At this point, you will have the choice to connect with her or to let it go.


In this moment, you have the choice to let go emotionally, or to continue to hope.

As to your concerns, they are real and understandable. Nobody wants to feel humiliated. However, it is impossible to have any control over what someone else says about you. She could paint you black , or not. To try to defend it to others, in a sense, validates it. Not responding is one way to not call attention to it.

You can also take some comfort in the fact that an adult would respond to something like having ED discussed with them as an adult. If someone spoke to me vindictively about another person's ED, my response would be to think poorly of the person talking about it. Somebody else's intimate moments are not my interest, and not my business. I don't want to hear it.

IMHO, someone in a relationship with you who cares about you wouldn't say something like that. Although I understand this is tough on men, as a middle age female, I have compassion about it. You know, the hormones have changed for me too and other women my age.  I would expect mature adults who care about each other to be compassionate towards each other.

If she has an affair with the 18 year old, it isn't about you. It's about her, and him. PwBPD are immature emotionally.

Basically, what she says or does is more about her than about you.

[aristan2000]

I think she took the E.D. episode as personal affront to her attractiveness. Her 23 year old son asked me why I was able to function with my last wife and not his mom. I was surprised that she discussed such things with her son. I would never dream of talking about such things with my mother (they talk of many things which most would find inappropriate). At one point, I addressed the incident and told her that I knew it hurt her, but that I couldn't help it and it was due to my pre-diabetes (which may be true. I've never told her that I have had homosexual feelings which I have never acted upon and that I wonder if that comes into play with my E.D.) and after this she stopped with the disparaging comments. 

[Sunfl0wer]

I think she took the E.D. episode as personal affront to her attractiveness. Her 23 year old son asked me why I was able to function with my last wife and not his mom. I was surprised that she discussed such things with her son.

IMO: This is completely inappropriate and demos poor boundaries and lack of compassion towards you.

If you are looking for validation that this is not ok... .

Well, I honestly held back on all the things in your post about her that are not ok with me because you posted in 'saving' and I respect you decision even if it is not one I would make for myself.  I also realize that what may not be ok for me, may be ok for you and vice versa.

Processing such types of relationships is not easy and has its own ups and downs.  Many of us have to work real hard to process all the feelings these relationships bring to the surface whether we are staying or breaking up... .still lots to cope with.

Have you started on any of the lessons around here?  Or should we try to look for ones that are relevant to get you started?

[aristan2000]

Well, I honestly held back on all the things in your post about her that are not ok with me because you posted in 'saving' and I respect you decision even if it is not one I would make for myself.  I also realize that what may not be ok for me, may be ok for you and vice versa.

You are more than welcome to share with me what you thought wasn't OK with her doing it. It might be a good thing for me to hear and look at.

[Yee Haw]

When faced with difficult choices I sometimes write up a good, old fashioned, pro and con sheet. You know where you write all positive statements on one side and all negative statements on the other? Even though I may have all the pros and cons in my head sometimes I'm surprised at how unbalanced it is when I see it on paper. Also I pretend I'm looking at it as if it was someone else's list to help me decide -- for example what would I advise my daughter if she was an adult and came to me with this list? What would you advise your son, brother, dad if you wanted him to be healthy and happy?

Good luck.

[Notwendy]

I think it is hard to say what is OK for someone as it is all a personal choice for each of us. I think I can say something about what happened and let you think about it.

She violated your personal boundaries:

On her part, it seems there is a problem with boundaries. She doesn't seem to differentiate between personal information and also the boundaries between people. What happens in the bedroom between two people is private and the boundary for that is to keep it between the two ( unless you are asking for help from a therapist, or anonymously on a board. )  Asking for general advice about ED is one thing, talking about ED between the two of you to someone else is a violation of the boundaries between two people who are intimate with each other.

I can not speak to her motive, but someone with poor boundaries may not even be aware that this is a violation of them.

Talking to her son about her sex life is emotional incest, and that is a form of sexual abuse.

This isn't just not appropriate, it is psychologically damaging to children. Yes, he is an adult but this is still very poor boundaries between them, not just on her part, but on his. A young man his age with healthy boundaries would not want to hear this and would not participate in talking about this with you or her.

Now something on your part. It is probably good that you didn't tell her about your homosexual feelings at this stage of the relationship. However in a physically intimate relationship that is going to be for the long run, at some point, sexuality, whether or not the relationship is monogamous or not, needs to be discussed. I don't know how much you have come to terms with that, or if you know if you are bisexual or gay. To be fair to your partners- it is tough to be with someone who isn't completely attracted to you. Although you have a health reason for the ED, but if your ability to feel attraction is because you are attracted to men, then this is something on your part to work out for yourself. I don't think it is easy or healthy to feel you have to hide a part of yourself from others, and this can affect intimate relationships. You should be who you are with someone, and this is something you can work on for your sake.

[aristan2000]

The boundaries, or lack there of, between the mother and he 23 year old son were bizarre to witness. Without getting into many details, she would talk about her late husband's large endowment in front of both me and her son. In addition, he would inquire about mine to her. I was somewhat amused at the time, but I did realize that it was very strange.

I am looking into my own orientation, but at 51, I have never had a homosexual experience despite having (not inconsiderable) interest in some males sexually. I was able to broach this with my ex-wife who was also likely BPD and there was no big problem with her about this.

[Notwendy]

It isn't just strange. It is a form of incest. And this could also have an impact on the son's ability to have emotionally healthy relationship. It is very damaging.

It is 2016 and you are single.  Unless you are in a country where being gay is illegal and a danger to your life, if you wish, you are free to explore your attractions. To me, the most important thing of any relationship is to be ethical, caring and kind, but that can be with either gender. One of the lessons here is self care and focusing on who we are more, and less on that sometimes all consuming focus on another person.