push pull

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

I'm new to the improving board (and perhaps a bit premature because my BPD partner and I are still broken up and she is seeing other people. She's indicated some interest in getting back together though ). Anyway, I'm worried that I am getting into the dysfunctional dance that Skip refers to down below. My ex is definitely pull pushing me, and in response I'm trying to not get too excited about the pull and dejected by the push. That's a challenge for sure, but seems like an okay response. But then what I do is pretty much wait for the next pull... .I don't really initiate contact or anything, so definitely go for the emotional distance. Is there something else I could/should be doing? [/quote]

My understanding of "push pull" is that it is inconsistent behavior by which one or both people in the relationship alternate between periods of emotional closeness and emotion distance.

Often, initially it's driven by one person, but if it persists, both parties tend to be contributors to it. This is also referred to as the "dysfunctional dance".

When someone has a high degree of rejection sensitivity, which most people suffering from BPD have, they are hyper responsive to even small slights and act impulsively on their feelings.  After the impulse passes, they may equally respond in the opposite direction.

We all experience these feelings too, but we tend to modulate them and expect others to do this to and for there to be more consistency in the relationship.

[kc sunshine]

Hi all,

I'm new to the improving board (and perhaps a bit premature because my BPD partner and I are still broken up and she is seeing other people. She's indicated some interest in getting back together though ). Anyway, I'm worried that I am getting into the dysfunctional dance that Skip refers to down below. My ex is definitely pull pushing me, and in response I'm trying to not get too excited about the pull and dejected by the push. That's a challenge for sure, but seems like an okay response. But then what I do is pretty much wait for the next pull... .I don't really initiate contact or anything, so definitely go for the emotional distance. Is there something else I could/should be doing? [/quote]

My understanding of "push pull" is that it is inconsistent behavior by which one or both people in the relationship alternate between periods of emotional closeness and emotion distance.

Often, initially it's driven by one person, but if it persists, both parties tend to be contributors to it. This is also referred to as the "dysfunctional dance".

When someone has a high degree of rejection sensitivity, which most people suffering from BPD have, they are hyper responsive to even small slights and act impulsively on their feelings.  After the impulse passes, they may equally respond in the opposite direction.

We all experience these feelings too, but we tend to modulate them and expect others to do this to and for there to be more consistency in the relationship.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sweetheart]

Hello kc sunshine, welcome to Improving, 

I hear your words and yes your response to the push/pull dynamic is okay. I wonder though how you would also feel about reaching out, about initiating some contact? Whilst at the same time accepting that your xgf may push you away. You may have already done this.

I'm often aware that with push/pull dynamics the interaction as you know is dysfunctional, and the power often resides with the pwBPD and the pain with the non. What will be important if you get back together are your boundaries around the emotional dysfunction and how you use them to protect yourself.

What do you want a relationship with this woman to look like now given what you have learnt from your history together? What do you need to do to find a middle ground that feels right for you?

[kc sunshine]

Oh those are such good questions. They are hard for me to think about in the break up. I suppose some things that are in general important for me are to:

1) have a good relationship with my kids

2) do good work

3) do the things that are fun for me (tennis, yoga)

4) keep up my friendships

5) keep developing my spiritual life

6) have a sense that the relationship is bringing laughter and joy to my life as well as some of the more difficult BPD stuff

I suppose the next thing is to think about how each might flourish (and might be a challenge) within the relationship.

[sweetheart]

Thinking about how you will flourish and continue to nurture that lovely list is also where perhaps the focus needs to be when you think about what boundaries will look like for you.

I want also to throw in here a bit of a curve ball, so that when you think about how your relationship might develop, you start to think about what might Radical Acceptance look like.

So what might the beginnings of Radical Acceptance look like for you?   

[kc sunshine]

Radical Acceptance so far has meant to me that I accept her being her and me being me. I'm not sure the relationship between radical acceptance and boundaries though-- because sometimes those concepts seem to be in tension with one another.

Thinking about how you will flourish and continue to nurture that lovely list is also where perhaps the focus needs to be when you think about what boundaries will look like for you.

I want also to throw in here a bit of a curve ball, so that when you think about how your relationship might develop, you start to think about what might Radical Acceptance look like.

So what might the beginnings of Radical Acceptance look like for you?   

[waverider]

Dealing with the push pull dynamics is a bit like learning to leave the door opening without worrying about having the sign outside saying open or closed. The sign (or label) itself can actually trigger an opposite reaction, so is best left out of the equation.

Radical Acceptance so far has meant to me that I accept her being her and me being me. I'm not sure the relationship between radical acceptance and boundaries though-- because sometimes those concepts seem to be in tension with one another.

Radical Acceptance is accepting things that you can't change but can learn to live with, which would normally not be typical of the ideal way of doing things. You can learn not to stress about these.

Boundaries are simply those things that if you leave yourself exposed to would cause you emotional,mental or physical harm. Important bottom lines if you like. You can't help them causing you to stress about these.

There will most likely be a lot of issues you are working on that fall in the middle somewhere, or even change category. The more these two categories become clearly defined for you the more centered and balance you are becoming.

[kc sunshine]

Dealing with the push pull dynamics is a bit like learning to leave the door opening without worrying about having the sign outside saying open or closed. The sign (or label) itself can actually trigger an opposite reaction, so is best left out of the equation.

Radical Acceptance so far has meant to me that I accept her being her and me being me. I'm not sure the relationship between radical acceptance and boundaries though-- because sometimes those concepts seem to be in tension with one another.

Radical Acceptance is accepting things that you can't change but can learn to live with, which would normally not be typical of the ideal way of doing things. You can learn not to stress about these.

Boundaries are simply those things that if you leave yourself exposed to would cause you emotional,mental or physical harm. Important bottom lines if you like. You can't help them causing you to stress about these.

There will most likely be a lot of issues you are working on that fall in the middle somewhere, or even change category. The more these two categories become clearly defined for you the more centered and balance you are becoming.

This is incredibly helpful. What it means to me practically is that if something doesn't mess with my bottom line (e.g. relationship with my kids, my work, my own areas of joy and spiritual development), than maybe it could be radically accepted. If it does, than I have to worry.

I guess there is also there are a set of boundaries with myself, and also things about radical acceptance with myself. The main thing with myself in this relationship is the question of honesty. The walking on eggshells aspect of our relationship makes honesty not an easy thing in the relationship, though something I bet that I could develop more as I become more skilled in the tools. Is honesty an important enough value to me that I'm not willing to compromise it in the face of the other things on my list? Or is being less than honest something that I can radically accept about myself, in light of the other values? That seems strange to write because "honesty" is of course something good, and the best would be to be able to be honest in a relationship.

[waverider]

Acceptance of ourselves is often overlooked, we have to accept that we have failings and difficulties, and all we can do is our best. Without acceptance we can guilt ourselves, this can then be projected onto our pwBPD when really it is our difficulty to deal with. All they have done is provide the testing ground so we become exposed to the fact we cannot always cope with everything that life throws at us, nobody can.

We will fail, we will learn and tomorrow we will do better, and we will fail again in the future. That is just the way life rolls. We are not lessor for failing. Learning about this disorder simply shifts the balance in a more favorable direction.

There will always be grey areas where we let things pass that "best practice' tells us we shouldn't. Eg codependency and enabling will always lurk there somewhere. It is important that we dont deny it, at least if we are aware we can choose, and doing nothing is a valid choice as long as its an educated choice. You have to live in this relationship and if you try top shake it too much life will become an endless civil war, which becomes counter to the bigger picture

[kc sunshine]

Thank you for these compassionate words waverider! Can I ask you what some of your own struggles with accepting yourself have been in your relationship with the person in your life with BPD?

Acceptance of ourselves is often overlooked, we have to accept that we have failings and difficulties, and all we can do is our best. Without acceptance we can guilt ourselves, this can then be projected onto our pwBPD when really it is our difficulty to deal with. All they have done is provide the testing ground so we become exposed to the fact we cannot always cope with everything that life throws at us, nobody can.

We will fail, we will learn and tomorrow we will do better, and we will fail again in the future. That is just the way life rolls. We are not lessor for failing. Learning about this disorder simply shifts the balance in a more favorable direction.

There will always be grey areas where we let things pass that "best practice' tells us we shouldn't. Eg codependency and enabling will always lurk there somewhere. It is important that we dont deny it, at least if we are aware we can choose, and doing nothing is a valid choice as long as its an educated choice. You have to live in this relationship and if you try top shake it too much life will become an endless civil war, which becomes counter to the bigger picture

[waverider]

I think accepting that I can't eliminate all aspects of enabling and codependency, and to accept that I need to draw a line somewhere and be happy to just consolidate what does work. In order to accept it you must first be able to identify it.

Also that my "carers hat' is not always on and that I will often do or say things that are completely contrary to what I would advise here, simply because I can't be bothered doing otherwise. That is tempered by the fact that I am aware at the time, or at least shortly afterwards what the dynamic, and the likely consequences are, and have a greater ability to repair, or dissipate the fall out. In short it is an educated choice, even if not always the wisest.

The wisest choice is often too much effort for normal human beings to maintain all the time. As long as your best is better than it used to be then you are getting somewhere.