I got in a big fight with my dad yesterday

[unicorn2014]

I'm kind of ashamed to make this post as I think I should be beyond all this by now.

My dad has decided to contest my grandmother's will on behalf of my brother and I, without my asking him to do that. Yesterday he called me and left me a cryptic message, which he always does "Hi Unicorn can you please call me?", he never says what's he's calling about. (I've been told that's from his days as a journalist). I went to a noon meeting, so I called him back after my meeting, on my way home. I ended up getting in the biggest fight with him because he said really offensive things to me and I ended hanging up on him! I think this is highly ironic as just recently I was posting on the conflicted board about my partner hanging up on me.

I was looking at the drama triangle and I think I felt victimized by my dad which is why I hung up on him. I couldn't believe the way he was talking to me. I was telling my partner that its one thing to read about narcissism but its another thing to have it staring you in the face. My dad literally thought I would be impressed because he's got this pillar of the community representing us in the case. He also managed to put me down in the conversation, which is why I hung up on him, at the same time telling me I had no choice but to comply because it was for my benefit. We had a huge back and forth about how this situation is a moral conflict for me. My dad doesn't get that as its all about the money to him.

I just realized I have another perfect example of the telephone game in my family. My daughter said my brother said that I didn't have $5 to get to the city. (This happened over Christmas, if any of you remember that previous post about something my daughter said my brother said). I asked my brother about that and he said dad said that. My dad said that because I'm morally conflicted about the whole thing, so he managed to turn it into a put down about me.

My dad manages to put me down if he either doesn't understand with or doesn't agree with my values.

I'm really shocked by how reactive I was to my dad. I don't get it, after 8 years of therapy and 10 years of sobriety, I'm still that reactive? I even take medication to stabilize my mood. What happened yesterday was a really good reminder of why I had to leave home at 18, my dad and I could just not get along. Today I don't have to follow his rules or live under his roof but it is astonishing to me that he still has the ability to upset me like this.

[Turkish]

Leaving aside everything else, he's still you dad and always will be.

Is this legal matter something you need to get drawn into, or can you detach and let him play it out, aside from you?

[HappyChappy]

Hi Unicorn2014,

I’m so sorry you’re frustrated over this predicament. As I understand it  your farther is riding roughshod over your wishes, in order to contest the will in your favour. And this is demonstrating no respect for your feelings on this sensitive matter. I can see how this would be frustrating, but the first point is I wouldn’t beat yourself up because he triggered you. Every human being gets triggered, it serves a useful purpose, i.e. to tell us to get out (or hang up). But that doesn’t negate the good work you did in Therapy.

Also, is it possible that your dad thinks he’s doing you a favour, even though he’s going about it in the wrong way? If he’s a journalist then battling with words, or manipulating meaning may well be his thing, and hence legal issues play to his strengths, the journalist’s instinct?

Maybe time to sit back and let your dad do his thing (on the dance floor) ? You could always give the money back or donate it to the bpdfamily. But most importantly don’t be ashamed about your post, it just tells me you’re human. That's a good thing.   

Happy Chappy

[unicorn2014]

Thanks happy choppy, I need the money and my dad knows it. I'll reply more in depth when I get on my computer as this is a subject worth exploring .

[C.Stein]

We had a huge back and forth about how this situation is a moral conflict for me. My dad doesn't get that as its all about the money to him.

I need the money and my dad knows it.

Something to consider here.  Do you think maybe your reaction to this is in part due to a conflict within yourself?

[unicorn2014]

Ok, on my computer now. Turkish, it is all about me, my dad is contesting the will on behalf of my brother and I, at his volition.

C. Stein, I am not conflicted. I know how I feel about this. If my dad really wanted to help me, he would be a grandfather, or a father. He didn't protect me from my ex. When I got out of Americorps he didn't allow me to move back in while I got a job and a place, he had me live with my drug using ex and his drug dealing friend. When I divorced my ex my parents sat by while I put my daughter in foster care so I could get my feet back on the ground. Now my parents aren't lifting a finger to help me with crisis after crisis with my daughter. I won't go as far as to say my dad is using me to get back at his mother, but that is what some are saying.

My dad knows I need the money, but my dad also knows I need help with my daughter and if I had help with my daughter I would be able to get money on my own.

I think I am failing to communicate here.

[unicorn2014]

Oh, I forgot to mention, he's a paralegal now, he was a journalist in a past career but someone said that's why he was doing things like leaving messages without any hint as to what was going on.

[busybee1116]

I get what you are saying... .I should be past this by now, I've been through therapy, done so much... .and STILL!  My parents always manage to surprise me with the same old shenanigans, I shouldn't be surprised by now! I fall into the same traps sometimes. At least now I sometimes can pause and think THIS AGAIN? and sort my way through/out. I would guess that the reason you may have felt so reactive is perhaps you were not in the best frame to have the conversation. Trying to have a talk with my mom while doing anything else (much less driving) would be difficult, particularly if I was tired or stressed or whatever. Don't be so hard on yourself. He knows how to push your buttons--you spent 18 years living with him and they can still be there even if you've done lots of hard work. If you need the money and he's willing to do the work, let him. Find that wise-mind middle ground.

[unicorn2014]

Thanks busy, I'm going to show up to the meeting, we worked through our problem. I still am ashamed of how I behaved.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Unicorn! I'm catching up today on the posts and read with interest your recent story. How are you doing now? I'm so sorry about all of that triggering for you! I hate triggering, but am fast becoming aware that when it takes place, it can help me to step back (after the triggering has settled of course) and analyze what happened and why. Sounds like you are working on that part.

I still am ashamed of how I behaved.

Let me share a little story about myself with you. About 2 weeks ago, for some reason I hit the point of no return and unloaded on DH. It all spilled out of me. I would've rather planned the conversation, spoken calming, been mature, shown all of my growth, etc., but I believe I also had an emotional triggering such as you did, and the dam broke. I felt so ashamed as well, like you did as you mentioned in your post. At first I only thought it was feeling badly (really badly), but my T pointed out that my reactions were those of one who has been shamed.

He was right, my inner critic was so busy shaming my response that I didn't even catch on to it, only that I had the resulting FOG. He pointed out that I have needs and feelings and emotions, which we often mention here at the BPD site. Those were being unmet or disrespected and walked all over for quite some time, and I lost it. I didn't do anything wrong by acknowledging my needs and feelings. I could have chosen a better method of presentation, but the point is, I can see that and allow myself some kindness and an extra hug for Lil Wools and the hurt she feels from the events that triggered her. I hope you can also do that for Little Uni as well.

Extra hugs for you!   


Wools

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Wools, and to make things worse I had problems with my partner yesterday. My partner is like my dad on steroids!

I've been working my 10th step inventory in my ACA program and I have a meeting tonight.

This morning my dad sent me a picture of some dragon fruit in front of a picture I sent him of my daughter and a postcard of a painting that's on exhibition currently.

Today I'm feeling the same shame I felt with my father, but with my partner its even worse as my partner totally busts through my boundaries and then shames me when I try to stand up for myself.

I wish there was a coping board specifically for people whose partners also have BPD traits as right now the two relationships are flowing into each other.

----

I guess you could say I am hurt and confused. I don't understand why I keep reacting to these men this way. To make matters even worse I almost called my partner by my daughter's name.

---

I'm sandwiched in between three generations of people with traits of personalty disorders: parents, partners and children. I've learned that I do not like confrontation but everyone else in my life does. Confrontation really shuts me down. My partner accuses me of avoiding it but I see very good reason for confrontation in my life. I don't actually have a need to confront anyone other then my daughter about her drug use.

[thisworld]

Unicorn hi

I feel for you.   I have a similar pattern with my NPD mother. I have been working on our issues (as she of course has no issues and the ones I am working on are completely a product of my imagination  ) for what, 20 years now. I have had therapy, this comes up in my Al-Anon work, she appears in my posts on the awareness forum. Basically, things (my detachment etc) are much better than they used to be. But it just took a BPD partner (and its aftermath) to cause me to regress in unimaginable ways. I just slided, relapsed, went back to being a little girl needing my mother's empathy, recognition, validation so much. (When I have this need, I fall for our usual dynamic and there is always an ugly fight that makes me feel both ashamed and defeated.) All this, despite grieving for the loss of this "mother" bond with a therapist. Nope, I went back to my old patterns so many times.

I think, in my case, this happens a)because my relationship with my BPD partner was so one-sided and draining that I couldn't handle another close relationship that demanded a lot of emotional control from me; b) even though I handled a lot of situations with my then partner without a fight, I had some resentment in me and transferred it to my mother; c) because she is safe! I mean, we have had so many fights that if I'm going to explode at someone, I can safely do it with her (as we are both practiced, neither of us will be shocked:)) I know that my mother sometimes attempts to start an argument with the hope that it turns into a fight and she lets off some steam. So, maybe, when I need a negative energy release, I am sometimes capable of using her for this.

My solution: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired: HALT. I don't get involved with her when I'm any of these. If she wants to discuss something I try to learn what it is, make-up an excuse (like work etc) and say that I'll get back to her ASAP. Then I try to relax. I can't do much for loneliness but I eat, take a shower etc and talk to her in MY time.

I personally wouldn't worry about old patterns emerging from time to time. I don't even think about this as "relapse", that "re" there has connotations of failure. It's a lapse to me. I just try to pick myself, bounce back and move forward - what has happened has happened.

How do you think you can protect yourself better next time? 

Best,   

[HappyChappy]

Hi Unicorn2014,

Someone with BPD is a master manipulator – if your Dad’s a journalist and par-legal, who had your undivided attention for 18 years, then there’s no shame in the fact he can still trigger you or control you. He probably would have control of any child, no matter what. But the fact you've figured this out – that’s something to pat yourself on the back about. The fact that you've come through all this as a morally upstanding person, you should be proud, very proud. Not ashamed – although here again are the flees of our childhood, somehow we are made to feel that way. But it’s not real.

Also could there be a bit of black and white thinking going on here ? We’re not perfect, your Dad doesn't have absolute control (but let him think he does) and morals and justice are an approximation not a science. You stand to win and lose in the same deal. Enjoy the grey area – that’s what journalist and lawyers do. Sounds like getting a good payout would be important to you and your kid. Maybe the means justify the ends here ? But it is all in your control and you've done nothing wrong that I can see. 

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Happy Chappy and this world. I don't like fighting with anyone, my partner says I avoid confrontation, but I realized that confrontation and offensive remarks affect me for days. (My dad made some very offensive remarks to me). My partner says my dad was trying to motivate me and I notice my partner uses the same tactics, but being offended does not motivate me, it pisses me off.

Yesterday my dad sent me an abstract photo and I thought to myself "what is this, a makeup text?" and then yesterday night when my partner asked if it was a deposition I was going to this week I texted my dad to ask him and he called, didn't leave the information on my voicemail and told me to call him, we need to talk.

I personally am tired of the cloak and dagger routine (my dad likes spy novels too) and would be fine if he would just leave the information on my voicemail.

This week is going to be a big family meeting with the lawyers and I really don't want to participate but I'm going to suit up and show up.

I appreciate the clarification between lapse and relapse. I hadn't really thought about my behavior as a relapse, but looking back on it, that is what it felt like. It talks about that in my ACA book, about slips, so I'll see if I can locate that stuff in the ACA big book.

[thisworld]

It's the same thing really. I believe, when slips happen, (and they do, they wouldn't be slips otherwise) we should remember to treat ourselves with love and compassion. When I experience really big negative feelings because I couldn't react the way I expected from myself, I see that as a remnant of my codependent perfectionism. I need to allow myself to be imperfect and still love myself. I can do that for other people, why not for myself? That's how I think.

Good luck with everything

[unicorn2014]

Unicorn hi

I feel for you.   I have a similar pattern with my NPD mother. I have been working on our issues (as she of course has no issues and the ones I am working on are completely a product of my imagination  ) for what, 20 years now. I have had therapy, this comes up in my Al-Anon work, she appears in my posts on the awareness forum. Basically, things (my detachment etc) are much better than they used to be. But it just took a BPD partner (and its aftermath) to cause me to regress in unimaginable ways. I just slided, relapsed, went back to being a little girl needing my mother's empathy, recognition, validation so much. (When I have this need, I fall for our usual dynamic and there is always an ugly fight that makes me feel both ashamed and defeated.) All this, despite grieving for the loss of this "mother" bond with a therapist. Nope, I went back to my old patterns so many times.

When you say awareness forum, do you mean the personal inventory forum?

I think, in my case, this happens a)because my relationship with my BPD partner was so one-sided and draining that I couldn't handle another close relationship that demanded a lot of emotional control from me; b) even though I handled a lot of situations with my then partner without a fight, I had some resentment in me and transferred it to my mother; c) because she is safe! I mean, we have had so many fights that if I'm going to explode at someone, I can safely do it with her (as we are both practiced, neither of us will be shocked:)) I know that my mother sometimes attempts to start an argument with the hope that it turns into a fight and she lets off some steam. So, maybe, when I need a negative energy release, I am sometimes capable of using her for this.

I appreciate you saying this. I think for me its the reverse, I work out stuff from my dad with my partner. I just got off the phone with my dad. My partner had asked me last night if I was going to a deposition this week so I texted my dad and asked him and he called me yesterday and today. I've often said my partner is like my dad on steroids: my dad is a minor league boundary buster, my partner is a major league boundary buster.

How do you think you can protect yourself better next time? 

Best,   

I do not know. There is an ongoing situation with my dad right now and I'm trying to tell my dad that the quality of our relationship is more important to me then whether or not I get this money. Basically what I'm saying to my dad is I would rather have him treat me with respect then get this money. Every time my dad talks to me he manages to insult me either directly or indirectly. This time it was indirectly, he said my brother was a really good negotiator, thereby implying I wasn't. He was basically telling me to keep my mouth shut with the lawyers because he thinks I would go for the first offer. My brother is younger then me and never been through a divorce and never been through a child support hearing. I successfully divorced my husband outside of court and have been to child support hearing after child support hearing and finally got it enforced. It really hurts me how my dad sees me and I tried to tell him this.