LC and where I am in detachment

[thisworld]

So my ex and I are in limited contact. Yesterday, he made me angry I got angry after a relatively long time and that helped me see where I stood in my detachment. I also had a chance to see his reactions in other aspects of his life. LC means more exposure to stuff that triggers me but I feel good when I'm able to overcome them. So here is how this goes:

Apparently, he had been writing one word stuff to me for a couple of days: Thisworld, dear Thisworld, Thisworld dear Thisworld (As if I were not answering on purpose but would when he added love words to it?, I simply didn't check my mail)

Then I learn that his best friend (whose wife is a lovely woman) has just been diagnosed with  stage 3 liver cancer, and this is terminal. This is a big secret and I should keep silent about it. He and his wife are also divorcing but the woman doesn't know about this. (They are divorcing because this friend has been seriously violent to her twice, and had another rage attack in a cafe where 6 cops were barely able to hold him.)

My ex was very emotional,telling about how his friend was still thinking about my ex's mother and how she had never seen happiness in her life. That they all cried over the phone.

Then he told me that his friend only wanted him around him (in another city) and he would go there after he visited yet another friend in another city (maybe a replacement or a drug friend, he doesn't have other friends in that city.) I tried to give him all the support I could (avoiding dramatic statements) but also asked if his friend was planning to tell his wife. My ex turned very cold. (Silence during messaging). He then said that his friend doesn't want her anywhere near and he is not planning to inform his family, either. I think my ex split the woman black although he wasn't open about this with me because he thinks that I'm going to defend the woman. (I know that my ex feels bad because he knows she is angry with him, as my ex provided heroin for his friend after a long term of sobriety. I also told him that this woman's anger is not about him, actually, it's just misplaced.) But I felt awful for the woman. Simply awful. (She actually loves her husband a lot and once told me that she couldn't imagine a life without him.)

Anyway, I asked him his opinions about this - not telling the cancer to the wife and family. Again, silence. And then something like "I'll surely respect my friend's decision" but with a militant tone. I don't know why I'm thinking this but it sounded as if he had no idea. After some validation, I again asked him what he was thinking about all this. (I don't know why I did it, I may be guilty of curiosity here.)

He then said "What for? What's the use of telling people?"

I was surprised at what I perceived as immaturity there. Told him that in a terminal situation maybe people would like to share apologies, farewells, ask for forgiveness, they are family.

He said "I don't know about that kind of stuff, no need etc." (This is the man talking about forgiveness throughout our entire relationship; forgiveness and compassion toward all online admirers of his and his exes and people like that but now is so dismissive when a wife and a family are the issue.) It also felt like he hadn't thought about anything like a funeral, informing a family etc. (He would probably be high at that point; if the two friends went on with this plan, it would have extreme results.)

I didn't get involved any more than this, just suggested understanding and tolerance for the friend as he would be going through a lot of contradicting emotions and said that the better the morale of my ex was, the better it would reflect on his friend.

My ex then disappeared per usual (when he feels better, he disappears).

Next day, I ask him how he is and whether there is more news. (Violated my own boundary here)

And I learn that the guy was very drunk when all this talk was made(all very cheerfully shared now), he is planning to inform his family (but not his wife, and she is still split black) and my ex will go and stay with him after this other plan. Then my ex disappears again.

MY OUTCOMES FOR MYSELF:

1. Admittedly, I got triggered by all this wondering how many others he would inform,  and share this "secret" to garner sympathy - and I felt horrible for feeling this, too.

I mean, here is this awful news and look at what I'm thinking. Is this jealousy on my part? I'm not sure. I have given him all the space to find a replacement - closed my FB account to remove myself out of his narcissistic space- he was harassing me with it-, so that he could feel even more relaxed; I know he slept with other women since and am comfortable; I'm OK with smear campaigns (I think that could be another way of finding a replacement) - but I informed important people at work etc without giving his name or more info. I'm OK with being a "sick woman", "controlling woman", "woman with a jealousy problem" in front of others' eyes - my friends know me and that's enough. Still, I know that my stomach would hurt (I guess briefly) if I saw him with someone else. I need to think about what exactly triggered me so much in this. Maybe his lack of empathy or sympathy toward this woman triggered something. I also get triggered because of his emotional cheating on me but I'm not sure how exactly this works - more awareness work for me. I wish he could just handle NC but with addiction's volatility, I'm still afraid for myself.  

2.  I also felt bad because I would not be able to tell what's going on  to the woman - who gave us a lot of support at a critical time before my ex's rehab. I have decided that if things go this way, I'll try to give her support afterward - if she ever allows me. I felt ashamed because on the outside, I'd be among those who knew. yet, I can't tell her anything now for my own safety and won't be able to explain this in the future, either. Maybe in two years' time, I'd be able to go and make amends. I seriously hope the two friends change their mind about her.

3. During the relationship, when everyone else got so much "empathy" and I had none, it affected me personally. With the help of sad but validating experiences here, I understood that this is common and don't take it personally anymore. Still, I was surprised that this woman got the same thing, too. I felt even more alienated from my ex.

4. The "oh, yes, he was so drunk" thing angered me, but with a relatively easy sigh. In the end, it was my choice to get involved emotionally and my ex never claimed he was giving the whole picture or that there would be some kind of consistency in all this.

5. Disappearing in the middle of conversation: that deserves a book on its own, but I'm not affected by it anymore. It helps me feel alienated from him as well - he himself goes super panicky if he thinks it's done to him, which I don't actually. But I was surprised that it happened here, too.

6. I feel like my ex operates with a structure, regardless of the content. He can drop any talk, anything at the drop of a hat regardless of the sad situation in hand. It's his feelings that matter. I know this in theory but never experienced it in a situation like this before. Sad as it is, I feel assured that I don't want to relate to him in any way - a true friend etc.

Ultimately, I'm glad that I feel much safer than I did when we first broke up and after I rejected the recycle attempt. I'm also glad that interaction with him doesn't cause panic or anxiety in me as it did when I started gray rock - though this isn't exactly gray rock. I don't like this communication but I don't feel threatened the way I did when I started it. I don't usually get this triggered, either. But at least I learnt something about myself.  

[troisette]

  Hi Thisworld

What an unpleasant story - sympathies to you regarding your dilemma and your recent experiences. I'm glad you are finding LC is helping you overcome the triggers. I admire your strength.

I've read your post a couples of times and my initial thoughts are that your ex is maybe casting himself in the central role in a drama which is actually about his friend and his wife. A form of attention seeking? When you moved the conversation away from him, he went cold on you.

His lack of empathy for his friend's wife could be due to insensitivity or, being immersed in his own feelings so much that he can't empathise with anyone at the moment. I'm being kind ... .

"I wish he  could handle NC but with addiction's volatility, I'm still afraid for myself." Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is there an element of co-dependent rescuing there? Is it possible to protect yourself within NC? I understand if you don't want to but I'm getting the impression of emotional blackmail on his part. Telling you such a secret; actually it could be construed as dumping the secret on you, considering your feelings for his wife and swearing you to silence is at best selfish (well, you know that), or maybe a form of control.

Regarding his friend's wife, and how you deal with it - I suggest that you sit on it for a while and process the information. When people are dying views change, attitudes alter and you may find yourself dealing with a different set of circumstances over the next few weeks as his illness progresses.

Jealousy - that's an emotion most of us feel, the causes may be different but the emotion is the same. Don't beat yourself up about it, I'm dealing with it at the mo - examining my own feelings. You have a lot going on at present, perhaps consider possible jealousy but not in an overriding way. Only you and your T know your deepest emotions.

I'm glad you feel much safer and that his behaviour is accelerating your sense of alienation from him. That you are learning about yourself, these can only be positives. Take care of yourself as you work towards the indifference of detachment. You're a brave and kind woman who deserves better.  

[kc sunshine]

This paragraph really resonated with me and LC and the work that it involves. First, the jealousy trigger; and second, the smear campaign trigger. It sounds like you've done really good work on both (and in terms of radical acceptance). I'm not really sure what you mean by emotional cheating on you at this point? Does it still feel like cheating to you? And does this feel worse that him sleeping with other people?

Thanks so much for sharing your journey thisworld. 

Is this jealousy on my part? I'm not sure. I have given him all the space to find a replacement - closed my FB account to remove myself out of his narcissistic space- he was harassing me with it-, so that he could feel even more relaxed; I know he slept with other women since and am comfortable; I'm OK with smear campaigns (I think that could be another way of finding a replacement) - but I informed important people at work etc without giving his name or more info. I'm OK with being a "sick woman", "controlling woman", "woman with a jealousy problem" in front of others' eyes - my friends know me and that's enough. Still, I know that my stomach would hurt (I guess briefly) if I saw him with someone else. I need to think about what exactly triggered me so much in this. Maybe his lack of empathy or sympathy toward this woman triggered something. I also get triggered because of his emotional cheating on me but I'm not sure how exactly this works - more awareness work for me.

[thisworld]

Troisette, thank you so much for your thoughtful reply to my epic. Your comments really helped.

Thank you for calling this unpleasant. It is so unpleasant - experiencing all this in the middle of what is a very sad situation for me personally. Today, on my own, I allowed myself to experience all my feelings more comfortably and it really is unpleasant. It also has something to do with grief. We stayed with these people for three, four days right before my ex entered rehab and they were so welcoming, so helpful. I'll never be able to forget that. It all seems like a distant dream now and surely is another trigger that took me right back to the beginnings of my relationship with my ex. And I'm so sorry, so sorry that this is happening. I need a good cry. This, together with the "how to react" question was too heavy for me.

I've read your post a couples of times and my initial thoughts are that your ex is maybe casting himself in the central role in a drama which is actually about his friend and his wife. A form of attention seeking? When you moved the conversation away from him, he went cold on you.

Thank you so much for this insight. It never occurred to me but it sounds very probable. I gave him a lot of support but maybe one question was enough. I'm also thinking whether he wanted to form something like a triangle. He obviously feels bad about this woman - what people think about him is very important. Maybe in his mind, he was the victim, she was a persecutor and I was supposed to be the rescuer, I don't know. Maybe me offering sympathy to both of them confused the system accidentally.

"I wish he  could handle NC but with addiction's volatility, I'm still afraid for myself." Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is there an element of co-dependent rescuing there?



The chaos I experienced during my relationship and the "scandals" afterward occurred in a little, gossipy place where my mother is an active member of her community. (I have discovered that I'm "her daughter" here rather than an individual in her own right.) She built herself a life here as a single woman and the nature of what we went through affected her, too. The social pressure I felt on myself led me to feel stuck between a lot of factors. Though she now says I should have used my legal rights, she isn't the most trustworthy person in terms of her reactions, either - non-grandiose NPD. I think I was being co-dep. toward my mother more than my ex. In a way, I understand her, too. I mean this whole story - neighbours reporting rages to her, drugs, the police, saving me financially, my nightmares whatnot- was so new and foreign to her. We don't get on perfectly but I don't want to cause anything new that affects her blood sugar levels and heart anymore. (I had to hospitalize her, too, at one point. I keep on hospitalizing everyone.) Restraining orders are next to impossible here and I got stuck between the possibility finding my ex overdosing at my door, his other threats and my personal worries (trauma also didn't help as I couldn't evaluate what was what). At this stage, I feel more empowered against all factors and threats have stopped, so has the insistence to recycle me.     

Is it possible to protect yourself within NC?

My T advised gray rock and it took a bit of time, it worked gradually - with my ex moving here unexpectedly as well, luckily he is back now.

I understand if you don't want to but I'm getting the impression of emotional blackmail on his part. Telling you such a secret; actually it could be construed as dumping the secret on you, considering your feelings for his wife and swearing you to silence is at best selfish (well, you know that), or maybe a form of control.

You are so right. I never thought of it that way but yes, it is selfish. I don't know if he considered my feelings for our friend's wife though. As for control, I don't know what this would achieve. But I sure should focus on my own boundary and well-being. He saw that there are situations where I show more attention than usual. I need to accept this, too. Yes, when a friend is dying and his wife is put in a strange condition, I'll be more involved emotionally. 

Regarding his friend's wife, and how you deal with it - I suggest that you sit on it for a while and process the information. When people are dying views change, attitudes alter and you may find yourself dealing with a different set of circumstances over the next few weeks as his illness progresses.

You are so right. I hope things change.

Jealousy - that's an emotion most of us feel, the causes may be different but the emotion is the same. Don't beat yourself up about it, I'm dealing with it at the mo - examining my own feelings. You have a lot going on at present, perhaps consider possible jealousy but not in an overriding way. Only you and your T know your deepest emotions.

I can handle a bit of jealousy. Him inserting this "other city" all the time sounded like something to pull me in a more personal conversation, so maybe that triggered it. I witnessed more serious stuff and was not triggered like this. I'm wondering if being put in this "confidante" situation is triggering me because well, you know his confidantes, cadettes as we call them

Thank you for your feedback Troisette. I really appreciate it.

[thisworld]

This paragraph really resonated with me and LC and the work that it involves. First, the jealousy trigger; and second, the smear campaign trigger. It sounds like you've done really good work on both (and in terms of radical acceptance). I'm not really sure what you mean by emotional cheating on you at this point? Does it still feel like cheating to you? And does this feel worse that him sleeping with other people?

Thanks so much for sharing your journey thisworld. 

Is this jealousy on my part? I'm not sure. I have given him all the space to find a replacement - closed my FB account to remove myself out of his narcissistic space- he was harassing me with it-, so that he could feel even more relaxed; I know he slept with other women since and am comfortable; I'm OK with smear campaigns (I think that could be another way of finding a replacement) - but I informed important people at work etc without giving his name or more info. I'm OK with being a "sick woman", "controlling woman", "woman with a jealousy problem" in front of others' eyes - my friends know me and that's enough. Still, I know that my stomach would hurt (I guess briefly) if I saw him with someone else. I need to think about what exactly triggered me so much in this. Maybe his lack of empathy or sympathy toward this woman triggered something. I also get triggered because of his emotional cheating on me but I'm not sure how exactly this works - more awareness work for me.

Kc Sunshine, thank you for your encouraging words. Yes, LC is a lot of work sometimes and I didn't voluntarily choose it. But it has been getting easier, my anxiety is much better nowadays and my ex and I are in better terms. We had a brief relationship and I was affected by volatility. It was during LC that I understood how deeply troubled he is and certain things are so visible when you see them in writing. I learnt more about him in LC and his recycle attempt than I ever knew during our relationship. He isn't someone with whom I'd like to have a relationship.

He scares me big time sometimes. This has more to do with the way his addiction interacts with this disorder and how his limits are different from mine - I'm not very afraid of him as a person, but when he is under the influence of drugs, it's a completely different story and that seems to be more common than he originally said.   

My emotional cheating feeling got triggered because I think I found myself in the "confidante" position and our relationship ended because of his emotional cheating - of all things. I don't distinguish between physical cheating and emotional cheating; the former doesn't make me feel particularly worse than the latter. I think what people do to rebuild trust afterward and the distance they put between themselves and third parties also play a role in our understanding of these things. People cheat for various reasons and they do it in various ways as well. I got very hurt because he was building all his communication with these other women on me, I got to read a lot of character assassination about myself (some of them were simply lies about my sexuality and a lot of private things). And I didn't know splitting black back then. I was hurt by the "how" of all this than the "what".