Friday Night Lights

[Turkish]

Background: 6 year r/s. She left two years ago, but she lived a double life in a r/s with some random young dude she met while out clubbing while I was at home with then D1 and S3. This went on for 4 months until she could comfortably move out. She married the new college grad, 18 years younger than me, and 8 younger than her, this past June. They moved in together. In October, she told me, "if I knew then what I know now, I never would have left you." My T pointed out what a narcissistic statement that was. I got it again tonight, and more... .

Now

They lost their rent subsidy, due to her husband's income. Earlier this week, they moved into a 1 bedroom from their subsidized 2 bedroom, paying about $200/mo more now (I looked it up). Last night, we had a school function. She had our daughter, and I was helping my son. She came over and placed her hand on mine. I let it go for a few seconds (to check), and when she didn't remove her hand, I slithered mine out from under hers. What's up with that? It's manipulative, and it disgusts me.

This afternoon, there was the usual kid related texts. I have them this weekend. She had asked to call me later. I sent her a few pics of the kids, and we talked by text about D3's defiance. I thought that would do it, but no.

The Call

She called, already sniffling and crying. My Spidey-sense had alerted me that I shouldn't have been surprised. She only calls me when she needs something...

She repeated what she had said in October, "if I knew then what I knew now, I never would have left you." She aplogized for things, not trying harder. She was a mess. She hung up, asking f she could call back. I said, "sure," I was making tacos, meat on the Barbie, kids in bed, BPD mom asleep on the couch, no problem.

I texted my lifeline, my BFF. He has a dBPD sister. He's read here, but isn't a member. I joked about codependency, after he reminded me of boundaries, and he sent me the definition of co-deoendent: "sacrificing one's personal needs in order to try and meet the needs of others." He commented that it sounded like the definition of a hero. In your face, Captain America!

She called back after 20 mins.

She apologized, but said that she needed time to get it together. She again aplologized for us, and said that the way her parents were, she didn't know better at the time. She apologized for being angry. Repeated, "if I only knew... ." Said that she should have tried harder. I threw her a truth bone. She knows that I am living with my mentally ill mother now, but I wasn't going to talk too much about that.

She said that she missed seeing the kids every day. I said that I did too. She apologized again. She said that I was a good father. She saw that i really did love her (i did, but wasn't "in love" with her like she needed). I talked a little about how it hurt not only me, but the kids. I said that I did not repay evil for evil, slamming her as she did me publically at the time. She thanked me for not doing that, but she started snifling again. I also talked about me having to lie to our kids, but realized that i needed to dial it back. I stopped short of what anther buddy who was married to a likely BPD wife told me what he wished he could say, "don't aplogize to me; occupied moved on. Who you really need to apologize to is our children."

I already knew, but I asked her, "where is your husbsnd?" She said that he went for a walk. I had that feeling. Third night in a new place and the had a fight. I has asked her if she were safe earlier, following the protocol herd. At the end, I asked her if she felt safe from him. She said that she did. This was a long walk, had to be over an hour.

I segued the conversation more about how the kids were doing. I really could have shamed her, being vulnerable, but that would have made me feel good for about 10 minutes.

We ended on a good note.

How did I feel? Initially feeling like Spock, detached, wisemind, I actually wept a little. For the usekeness of it all, and also for her pain. Also for that this doesn't change anything, but it does, no matter if I saw it coming.

[ScotisGone74]

So honestly Turk, what do you receive for listening to her talk about her problems now and give you some compliments if you are not in a r/s?  I could see how this could keep a person stuck, how does it make you feel listening to that?   

[Suzn]

this doesn't change anything, but it does.

What does this mean?

[Turkish]

SG74,

Honestly, I'd be lying if I didn't feel a little, "see! I told you so." Interesting point about relating this to a stage of detachment. I've pondered that in the back of my mind all day when I read your response this morning. The good news is that I didn't text her today, "how are you doing?" Codependent no more. Durbin a 25 min conversation last night, she went from crying, to sounding stable. Just before she left, we came in the house, and she went to my bed, which she had abandoned fir the couch almost three month's previously, and wept. I went to check on her, and left her alone after. Half an hour later, after a cat-nap which was real (I imagine she shut down to reset), she came out like everything was normal.

We drove to take the kids to a holiday event. I gently (from my point-of-view) encouraged her to reach out for help. She responded, "I always feel like you're throwing my 'sickness' in my face." I dropped it. It's hard to deal with such a compartmentalized personality. So maybe she felt better today, probably. I'm trying to not feel enmeshed or rescue. Though I'm the one who officialy ended it after she wouldn't let the dude go, our reality is a consequence of her decisions.

I do feel for her, but she betrayed me, hurt me, and also our children, who were thankfully to young to intellectually process what was going on.

A friend whose likely BPD wife left him many years ago for her boss (there were drugs, severe finanicial issues, a more severe story) told me that if his wife ever offered an apology, that he would stop her and tell her that she should apologize to their daughters, who are still in pain, hugh school and college age.

I kind of said this last night, but said that thankfully, they were too young to really get it. It's a fine line between telling the truth and enablng/rescuing. She never learned it from her parents, but she's a 30+ year old woman. Her excuses about her parents have validity, but she's ultimately responsible for her choices, as are we all.

this doesn't change anything, but it does.

What does this mean?

It means that I'm not interested in "rescuing," though as frustrated as I have been, I wouldn't be averse to occasionally doing something with her and the kids more than we have been. I've soent two years rebuffing her efforts to bring us closer together because I realize that it's for her. For over a year, it was from S6, "you should come over to Mommy's apartment to have dinnsr," (she invited me more than a few times), and, "mommy can come over to our house and watch a movie." Etc... .I imagine she received similar comments. It finally stopped about 6-7 months ago.

A couple of friends said in the beginning that at some point she'd want me back. I laughed. She's not Liz Taylor, and I'm not Richard Burton. No way, no how. I feel that she is trying to draw me in, keep the attachment, as she was when she was living with me and telegraphed wanting to be BFFs while still living here.

My T told me two months ago to offer her my forgiveness, but to also state that due to her betrayal, to say that I could never trust her (in so many words).

So she's trying to change it, but it's up to me to make sure that it doesn't; for my sake, and that of our kids.

I could flat-out absolve her, and I kind of did last night, and she'll feel better for a time. This may give her a temporary respite, but her pain is from far before we met. That isn't going to go away. That's her responsibility, and her journey.

[Suzn]

I texted my lifeline, my BFF. He has a dBPD sister. He's read here, but isn't a member. I joked about codependency, after he reminded me of boundaries, and he sent me the definition of co-dependent: "sacrificing one's personal needs in order to try and meet the needs of others." He commented that it sounded like the definition of a hero. In your face, Captain America!

This guy sounds like great support, he handed you tools to rescue yourself. You reached out to your lifeline, what were you afraid of?

She was successful in drawing you into another conversation about your marriage as her husband is taking a walk. What need did you sacrifice?

So honestly Turk, what do you receive for listening to her talk about her problems now and give you some compliments if you are not in a r/s?     

I remember these types of conversations with my exBPDgf, you're not alone in having had them. Granted I didn't know about BPD back then but it didn't matter, this dynamic has played out my whole life in family, friendships and romantic r/s. As a recovering codependent I had to ask myself what was the payoff? What was I getting out of these conversations? 

[kc sunshine]

This is a great thread-- thank you for it. I love this question in particular-- I'm beginning in my codependent no more journey. Can you explain the question and how it relates to codependency a bit more? Is the thinking that we get something out of our interactions, but sort of passively (instead of getting what we need more directly?)

So for example, if I go to the movies with my BPDex and we hold hands (like we did last week), what I get is physical intimacy (or the possibility of physical intimacy) even if it comes at the really high price of continuing the pain of separation (drawing it out the breakup) as well as having to hear veiled references about her other relationships and see her text them etc.

And in terms of recovering from codependency, a healthier thing would be to just directly think about addressing the physical intimacy need question more directly?

As a recovering codependent I had to ask myself what was the payoff? What was I getting out of these conversations? 

[unicorn2014]

I'm not saying anything original here, but do you think you're in danger of being sucked back in? Are you sure you are done with her? I don't know what detaching from a person with BPD looks like from personal experience, so please keep that in mind. My ex had problems other then BPD so it was a very different process to end that relationship. I asked him to leave after 2 years of trying to make it work with problems and it was over.

[Turkish]

Suzn: my lifeline is a friend who's known me for 30 years. He's 3 years younger than me, but even as a pre-teen, he saw that my BPD mom was "off" even if we couldn't  name it back then. I wasn't afraid, I just wanted to share. Though his wife never liked my Ex from the moment she met her (my ex picked up on this... .pwBPD can be very cognizant of other's emotions), he always liked her, even after the cheating came out. I wanted to move past it and make it work. He validated me... .until a few months into her behaviors when I was almost begging her to move out, to salvage a friendship in my mind. Later, he told me he would shoot me if I ever got back together with her. He's like me: forgiving, and long suffering. He may be serious, though. Not really, but it was his way of saying, "you're an idiot if you reengage." I think that answers your question, unicorn. Besides, she's married, and twisted though it is, that would be cheating.

What need did I sacrifce? To be left alone in peace... Given that she's the mother of our children, I accepted the call. I felt that I had to. 

kcs: I really think that not while I could win her back, I could be more affectionate both physically (like not withdrawing my hand, or higging her tightly, which I know she would except). I'm not into that. She's been with another person for two years. It disgusts me.

I was present for others (kids, mom) from 7:30 to 8:30 pm today, approximately. Busy, but normal. I taught S6 how to ride a bike today. With minimal instruction, he got it in less than an hour. I was proud of him. I resisted sending her pics. It's one more thing that she missed, like me taking the kids to the mountains and their first snow last year. These things are for us as a three person family unit, not her. She chose this.

Even so, she has the kids half the time. Keeping a communication line open helps. It's up to me to assert boundaries. She still wants me to rescue her. Given kids, this is complicated.

[ScotisGone74]

Im going to take the hard line on this one Turk.     So she s going in to your bed to nap and you re checking on her?    You are wondering if she is feeling better today?   I know you have kids, but do you honestly think she was feeling that way about you while you were taking care of the kids and she was out burning up the town with mr kid rock?    What about how you feel, about how are doing and coping? 

As a side note after two years I peeked at the exBPD s FB page yesterday for the first time, I was fully prepared for it mentally.    It just made me feel bad, depressed, just sad for the life she chooses to live, but it is Hers to do as she wishes. 

[Turkish]

The nap incident was about a month before she left two years ago. I've only let her in the home twice since she left, within a couple of months after she left. She knows she's not welcome here.

[ScotisGone74]

Thanks for clarifying.    You are in a much better osition with that stance