Maturity in kids with BPD parents

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Just want to take a pulse here on whether the parents of kids who's OP is BPD see that the children seem to be behind socially, emotional, immature?

It seems in the stress and chaos of dealing with BPDm no one really noticed that SD7 was not maturing. She is smart. She is clever and highly manipulative, but will still do things that a MUCH younger child would do, like play in the shampoo in the shower and waste a whole bottle down the drain. At almost eight years old I would think we wouldn't  have to watch her so closely.

For the longest time we all assumed it was that she was stressed, and that she was doing mischievous things to make mom happy, but now we can see that her immaturity is much more systemic than we thought.

Any thoughts about how to fix this? Or do any of you out there also see this in your children?

[bravhart1]

Just want to take a pulse here on whether the parents of kids who's OP is BPD see that the children seem to be behind socially, emotional, immature?

It seems in the stress and chaos of dealing with BPDm no one really noticed that SD7 was not maturing. She is smart. She is clever and highly manipulative, but will still do things that a MUCH younger child would do, like play in the shampoo in the shower and waste a whole bottle down the drain. At almost eight years old I would think we wouldn't  have to watch her so closely.

For the longest time we all assumed it was that she was stressed, and that she was doing mischievous things to make mom happy, but now we can see that her immaturity is much more systemic than we thought.

Any thoughts about how to fix this? Or do any of you out there also see this in your children?

[Sunfl0wer]

My step daughter was also immature in similar ways.  At 11, if we were at a hotel, she would play with all the shampoos and soaps provided and I would have to leave to a store to buy toiletries.

I assumed she just was never taught any better in such things.

I also assumed the added stress of a mom with BPD made her enjoy childish sensory things that could help her tune out and be in her own world.

Another thing, for our SD, I think it was also her way of rebelling while appearing child like, cute and innocent.  I know she knew it was inconsiderate to do certain things, but if her behavior resembled a five year old, then mom or dad would brush it off as 'childish' behavior vs expect her to be considerate.

[Nope]

SS11 was very immature. He was the scapegoat child and BPDm's own mother referred to him in court as BPDm's "emotional punching bag". I heard a story from SD13 about when SS11 was eight and squirted out an entire can of shaving cream all over the shower walls while bathing.

I think it comes down to what you hear about the way children stay much closer to an abusive parent because of the insecure bond. That lack of exploration and individuation must have a really detrimental effect on child development. SS11 is just starting to come around a little bit now that he's with us. But it's taken a solid year and a half to get anywhere. I think stability and time have been the two most important factors. That, and kicking him out into the world a little bit.

I'll never forget when he was nine and we were at a gas station and he asked me if he could have a bag of chips and I handed him some money and told him to go pay. He was both excited and terrified. He went to the line and kept watching me to make sure I was there for him in case something went wrong. When it was his turn at the register he handed the nice lady the money but held on to the bag tight to his chest and she smiled as she explained she needed to scan it. (I'm smiling now remembering. He's adorable.) Giving him opportunities to show himself he is capable has lead to more healthy exploration that I think is growing him up some.

[bravhart1]

Great suggestions and insight nope.

Funny and aggravating at the same time, but I have lost about six cans of women's shave cream just this year. I am stubborn I guess but I refuse to " put things out of her reach" like a toddler and I tell her so. I implemented a weekly allowance just so I could make her buy a replacement can out of "her" money when it happened.

Sunflower, your thoughts about her playing to escape the stress mirror what her therapist  says to a t.

Unfortunately I am seeing some tough consciquences happening ( like she got kicked out of ballet) due to her immaturity. That was hard, she loved it. But the teacher was quite clear these are group lessons and she requires too much individual time and attention and its not fair to the other kids. Then it happened again this week with swim practice. Almost the same exact verbiage was used.

I am sad that SD lost her two new activities that she was really excited about, all because she was too immature to handle the group setting.

It also makes me realize just how much her teacher is dealing with on a daily basis ( bless her heart) I gotta save up for a special teacher gift this year.

Any other tips or insights are appreciated.

[FamilyLaw]

DSD 16 was 8 when I came into her life.  She's an incredibly smart young lady, but both functional and emotional maturity have taken some time.  When I first started dating her father, her parents were still cutting her food for her and speaking for her in public.  While my husband took her on adventurous camping trips where she did really well, her mother was always asking her whether she was ok.  She did great riding and jumping her pony, but when she moved up to a horse her mother managed to convince her that it was scary and dangerous.  For a while in her pre-teens her mother managed to convince her to be scared of nearly everything.  She even accused me of abusing DSD because I made her empty the silverware from the dishwasher.

She had horrible difficulties in middle school making and keeping friends, since she followed her mother's lead in saying awful things to the other girls.  More than once I found really vile things in her texts with other girls.  When she was littler her mom never let her learn to develop friendships, so she only does well with one friend at a time -- she doesn't deal well when the attention is not on her.

I have to say that I'm really proud of the great strides she's taken this year.  While she hasn't come out to her parents, she has a really nice girlfriend and seems to be learning how to appropriately deal with the give and take of a relationship. She's always had nearly perfect grades, but until recently she's insisted that she won't go away to college or that she wouldn't go to college at all.  (My kids went to top tier college/university and her older half-brother went to Gonzaga for law school, so not going to college is not an option.)  This is a child who could easily get into Stanford or MIT and is something of a math whiz.  Last night she asked to visit UCSD while we are in San Diego for spring break.  This is a huge change for her!  She even agreed to go on a snorkeling tour to swim with leopard sharks (very little and very safe).

I'm not sure what has made the change for DSD.  Part of it may be that her dad and I have always insisted that she is capable of anything she puts her mind to and that she should strive for the best, rather than just "good enough."  Part of it may be seeing the wider world through traveling and her older siblings.  Fortunately, her older half-siblings seem to be pulling away from mom's craziness and protecting her from it.  And part of it may be recognizing that she is an individual and not just what her mom wants her to be.  Part of may be that her school counselor and others are telling her that she is capable of more, so its coming from someone other than her dad and I.  Wish I could give you more advice or help than merely stay the course.

[Thunderstruck]

I've definitely noticed that SD11 is immature in the way she handles conflicts and stress. She will have a full-scale toddler tantrum (including crying, screaming, throwing herself to the ground, flailing her arms and legs) when we push her to do her math homework instead of spoon-feeding her the answers. At this point I can't tell if it's fleas or learned behavior.

It would be difficult to learn to regulate your own emotions when your parent, that is supposed to be your model for being a person, can't.

It seems like SD11 inherited a little bit of her mom's black and white thinking in friendships too. If one of her friends is playing with someone else, it's "She hates me, we're no longer friends, no one likes me, I'm all alone, I have no friends". She uses a lot of "always" and "never"s.

We've overheard some of SD11 and uBPDbm's conversations, and it does sound like uBPDbm treats her like a 5 year old still. SD11 will purposely say something inappropriate and uBPDbm will say "Oh, you're so silly!". 

[bravhart1]

We also get the tantrums when things don't go her way, say over dessert, or homework or cleaning up her room.

Because I do have experience with how to manage behaviour I'm very careful to for example give her one thing at a time, "hang up your jacket" instead of " go clean your room". I get how to keep her from going over the edge, dad struggles with this more.

At school her teacher has been a saint helping her to learn to manage friendships and tantrums.  while she has the one on one attention she seems to get it, but as soon as she is on her own it's like Groundhog Day and nothing she learned sticks. Which makes me think she like the help and tutorials because it is attention but she's not really listening.

It's exhausting really. And it's getting harder to manage her as she gets bigger. It's like having an adult baby if that makes sense.

I don't want to end up raising another borderline for the world to deal with. :'(

We are on month three of the no contact with mom and I just got some info that mom isn't really keen on doing any of the things they are asking so she can get time with SD again. This makes me so angry at her, she can't put her daughter who really needs her first. I know she mentally ill and all that, but she knows enough about the world and how it's supposed to work to say the right things and accuse the right things, but she can't be held to the standard to actually do the right thing. 

Sorry i digress... .

[Sunfl0wer]

Which makes me think she like the help and tutorials because it is attention but she's not really listening.

I find this interesting. My ex step daughter did this.

It was like she could perform tasks if someone was 'holding her hand,' but if no one was looking, she was spacey... .and behaved more like a 3 yr old.

I think the affect of having a mom with BPD meant that she was somewhat dissociative and /or rebellious without constant extrinsic positive reinforcement on all of her actions.

BPD mom either neglected her, or over micromanaged... .seemed clear why she did these things.

However, at 13 yrs of age, she was behind her peers who enjoyed intrinsic motivators of things like learning an instrument, dance, riding their bike, and so many other things that kids just enjoy without needing another to applaud them for doing it.

[HopefulDad]

I think my D11 has some intrinsic BPD-like wiring, exacerbated by a rocky relationship with her BPD mother.  Like her mother, she genuinely struggles with empathy and there are times when she doesn't get her way she can have a meltdown, even around strangers.

That being said, I've seen some significant improvement in her since the divorce.  She spends half her time with me so she gets a stark contrast in parenting temperament.  In both a good and bad way, she can dismiss her mother's over-the-top handling of situations as "mom being mom" rather than let it beat her down.  Giving her a break from that drama has definitely helped her start inching towards a healthy middle.  She still has plenty of work ahead of her, but I like the direction things have gone so far.

I do have a D8 who is remarkably mature, is full of empathy... .and makes no bones about wanting to spend even more time with me than with her mother.  I think she learned early on by watching her older sister and mom go at that walking on eggshells was a way to avoid getting yelled at, but I suspect this burden is too much for her to bear.  More time spent around me means less time watching what she says and how she acts around mom and that's a relief.  Despite her outward appearances of being a great kid, I'm keeping a close eye on her in case she's tying herself in knots internalizing things.  We talk regularly on these kinds of things to give her a chance to let some of that out.

[bravhart1]

It does seem the more enmeshed the child is the more immature they are, which I guess makes since if they are trying to be like the BPD parent they would be acting immature.

I still grapple with the experience of SD acting more like mom than me or dad, since she does spend more time with us and has for many years. But she still seems to be drawn in and enchanted with moms magical thinking ( I call lies) and moms silliness and erratic behaviour, she identifies with mom so much more.

I get that mom has done an intense sales job on the "why" they must be alike, stick together (everyone out to get us) she even goes deep into the race issue. But how does a seven year old not just take the path of least resistance and get with the program here?

She seems like the more she is away from mom the more she is trying to channel her.

I'm hoping it's an extinction burst. ( fingers crossed) because it sure isn't in her best interest and she's making her life much harder than it needs to be.

[Panda39]

From what I've seen with my SO's daughters immaturity isn't always the case.  My SO's daughters looked to me as a "tale of to cities".

When I first entered their dad's life,  both girls were enmeshed with their mother but they each had different roles that they were expected to play. 

D19 (then 14) was the golden child, best friend, confidant, care taker of both her mother and younger sister... .parentified.  She was mature but too mature and out of sync with her peers... .where was the teenage girl that should be living her childhood?

D15 (then 10) had a blankie, sucked her thumb, still believed in Santa, and ran around the house like a 4 year old.  The only way she could get attention was be the baby... .be dependent.  She was also the scapegoat child the dumping ground of her mom's negativity never feeling included, never feeling good enough, smart enough, loved enough.

Both have been in therapy, both are very low contact with their mom, and both are where they should be in life.  D19 is attending our local state university, works at a local history museum, hangs out with her friends and co-workers and is letting her dad parent her younger sister.  D15 is your typical teenage girl with friends that she hangs out with, is doing great in school, but is still working on how to deal with her mom and her self-esteem. 

Both girls have come a long way and continue to grow.

Panda39

[Thunderstruck]

Funny, we went up to see DH's parents this weekend. DH's stepmom made a comment to me about how bright SD11 is, but how she seems to act immature for her age.