How to deal with devaluing

[Jk416]

I get that I'm supposed to depersonalize during devaluation by BPDBf.  It's hard not to get defensive when he's projecting and flat out making things up about me. Any advice on what to do in the moment? I can't walk away, it only makes things worse. If I stay silent and just listens, he pushes me for a response. There is no agree to disagree. I usually just cave and tell him he's right, but I don't feel good about that.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Jk416, I can appreciate that it doesn't feel good when one caves and agrees to something that one actually disagrees with.  Yet that's how a pwBPD uses manipulation to control the thoughts and feelings of a Non.  It's a lousy place to be, I know.  Been there; done that.  As you note, he is pushing for a response, which is typical behavior for a pwBPD and akin to bullying.  I'll share two possible solutions to this quandary.  One is to employ boundaries, which establish what you will and won't allow.  Boundaries protect you, but don't hurt the other person.  Look for more info on this site about Boundaries.  The second technique is to practice detachment and disengagement, i.e., to cultivate indifference.  Let it roll off your back and don't engage emotionally.  Hang in there!

LuckyJim

[Jk416]

Indifference sounds good. But so hard to accomplish when the person you love is attacking the core of who you are. I know I need to work on boundaries. The issue this week is religion/spiritual beliefs. It feels like he searches for things that I believe in or enjoy, to arrack. When we met, he wasn't very religious but he read the Bible and identified as a Christian. That is very important to me. Now he doesn't believe what the Bible says and doesn't believe in Jesus. He still believes there is a God, but that all religions are talking about the same God, which is fine if that's how he feels. But now I feel that he wants me to change like the wind every time he does. He knows how I feel about my faith. He asked me if I thought he would go to hell because he didn't believe in Jesus. I said based on what the Bible says, yes. Now he's "not talking to me for a while" because he can't be with someone who thinks he's going to hell. Yet he was unable to tell me what he feels determine who goes where. But he is right. If our beliefs are that different, then we shouldn't be together. But with his unstable sense of self, he may change his mind next week and conveniently forget this conversation ever happened. What have I gotten myself into and why can't I just leave?

[byfaith]

Boundaries protect you, but don't hurt the other person.

Lucky Jim,

I am trying to understand boundaries better... .when you say ... .but don't hurt the other person, you mean physically hurt them correct? I know if I set certain boundaries that protect me my wife will for sure suffer emotional hurt. Just like my wife setting a boundary for herself when it comes to no sex, that protects her but causes me great emotional pain.

Thanks

[ColdEthyl]

Jk416,

When a pwBPD feels attacked, they attack back. When you told him you feels he will go to hell, what he hears is HIS opinion is wrong... .thus he's wrong as a person. They can't have that, so it gets pushed back unto you.

"Indifference sounds good. But so hard to accomplish when the person you love is attacking the core of who you are."

It is, and it's not easy. It won't work all of the time, either. But, it's about practicing mindfulness. It's separating the person from the disorder. Whatever BS they are going on about and trying to hurt you with only works in you allow it to hurt you. They cannot regulate their emotions enough to NOT do these things. It's a mental illness.

If he has a problem with your religious view, that's on him. Not you. We can learn how to communicate/present things to pwBPD to avoid triggers/cut down on dysregulations... .but none of this will go away permanently.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey jk416,  It sounds like he's just pushing your buttons to get a rise out of you, which seems to be working, and probably shifting his viewpoint in order to get you to engage.  Try to observe what he's doing and just look at it, without the need to react.  Or ask him open-ended questions, like, "Why do you feel that way?"  Avoid JADE-ing (justify, argue, defend, explain) as that usually goes nowhere.

Hey byfaith,  Let me explain by way of example:  If I say, "I will not tolerate abuse," I don't think it's hurtful to the other person, physically or emotionally.  It's just a boundary that defines what I will and will not allow into my life.  How the other person reacts to it is up to that person.  Your wife's denial of any physical closeness, however, is in my view a different kettle of fish.  To me, it's more in the nature of a manipulation and a way to keep you down, rather than a boundary, though I suppose abstinence could be a boundary if one has taken a vow of celibacy!   

LuckyJim

[Jk416]

Any advice on how I could have handled this situation? He knows what I believe. So he knew what my answer would be. He knows what Christianity means. If I had said no, I would have been a liar.

[Mustbeabetterway]

  jk416.  I think you are on the path to finding answers.  Of course, it is difficult not to respond in a way that does not fuel the fire. I am not talking about walking on eggshells.  I am talking about addressing/not addressing a topic.  If you wish to state your belief, then do so matter of factly (as is possible)

My spouse will sometimes take opposite sides of an argument.  I have found that sometimes I can say "I am not prepared to have this discussion right now."  Or some version of that atatement.  It is the truth, and as you say, he already knows how you believe.  This often ends the argument.  I am happy to have a true discussion but dont want to be baited into a disagreement.

I always thought I had to answer back, but I am learning that I can choose which discussions I will have and when.

Good luck!

[waitingwife]

I was in a similar kinda argument with my uBPDH when he asked me to invite my parents over to live with us for a few months. I have caved in in the past coz yes I love my parents but I have been miserable instead of enjoying my time with them. We get into triangulation issu s and they are also the codependent type who are like a rock to him.

So this time the argument went like this with the help of this board members and we both got some closure or agreed to disagree to some extent:

H- why don't you invite your parents over for the whole summer?( and he funds it coz I am financially dependent on him for now)

Me- Not yet

H- why?

Me- You kinda know yhe answer so would you like me to repeat the same again?

H- okay, fine. We're done talking and shuts memoff(which I expected coz he dysregulated) and felt like I am saying he treats my folks badly I which he has a few times.

Me- I said I'm really sorry that you feel bad about it but I am not emotionally equipped to deal with the issues that go on.

H- I have raged 2-3 times and you choose to hold onto just that notnthe good stuff about how much I respect & love your parents.

Me- This is about meand how much I can handle. I cannot handle it at this moment in my life and so I am making this choice.

H- not too happy but retreated and not asked about this again.

Yes he did dysregulate and disliked it and we had a few days of low when I took care of myself by hanging out with friends and went about my life coz I showed him the mirror but he has a right to his feelings and me to mine.

I was at a much happier place that I did not cave in like I did and take the bait... .The baits are sometimes so so very hard to resist coz they know how tomoffer exactly what you need. I was really feeling very low and would have loved to spend time with my parents but at the same time I have learnt to recognize the trigger points now. I am going to visit my parents in the summer for a shorter time so that way I don't shortchange my r/s with them for uBPDH's dysregulations.

[tryingsome]

As mentioned above I think a good combination or 'rolling things off your back' and 'boundaries' works well.

Something that might 'roll off my back/ignore' is if the pwBPD said, "who lives in filth, what kind of pigs live in this house"

I would just ignore something like this as it isn't a direct attack on me, it more of a embellishment of the situation.

Heck if the pwBPD said this, I wouldn't even bother to clean up. Just let it be.

Now, for me a boundary is, 'I would never say derogatory to someone'. So by this, that would mean I should not except such behavior. If someone spoke to me directly and attacked my character; I would do the following. Acknowledge to the pwBPD that they are out of line. Then state I am going to go for a 'walk' or take some time for myself. And do such, no matter how much the other person pleads. Boundaries are pretty sticky, you can't let a pwBPD push your over yours.

Now the things you let go and the things that are boundaries are yours to decide. You have to be careful to not fall down the rabbit hole. To engage on the things that don't really matter to you and to be assertive on the things that do. Give a little and they take that little, making in that much harder in the future.

[Jk416]

Thank you all for your replies. I really does help. Boundaries are key! I'm putting my focus there.