Reflecting upon my own changeability

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi C.Stein,

I'm having a really miserable time of it right now and feel completely hopeless. One week in and we've been arguing again. He directed his anger at me because I was not there for him when he had an important meeting coming up and was struggling with the emotions that he was experiencing. I was out with my family enjoying myself. I'm clearly not allowed to do that whilst he's in pain. Unfortunately, he's always in pain and I'm sick to death of having to share his misery. I can barely cope with my own.

Sounds like you and he need to talk about realistic expectations in the relationship.  Is this a discussion you think you can have with him?

I've got a whole list of things that I need to talk to him about... .really important, relationship threatening issues. Left to my own devices, I tend to run away because I hate conflict and I'm scared of the repercussions of having those discussions. I am an emotional wuss and I have to take myself in hand and develop some backbone. Sometimes, I despair of myself.

LW x

I can understand this quite well.  I also do not like confrontation and avoid it where I can.  That said, when things need to be said or when boundaries have been crossed I will "confront" if that is what is needed.  I know the anticipated repercussions give you reason to pause however consider the repercussions of staying silent are likely to be far more damaging.  If I find myself having a hard time with voicing my thoughts then I will put it in a letter.  This way I can say what needs to be said without getting caught up in some caustic emotional exchange and potentially not resolving anything.  Once you get it all out there and any flared emotions have calmed then you can talk in a more productive and constructive fashion, not a confrontational one...  It is important to talk it out after such a letter, the letter just serves as a bridge over the fear of confrontation.

[C.Stein]

Hi C.Stein,

I'm having a really miserable time of it right now and feel completely hopeless. One week in and we've been arguing again. He directed his anger at me because I was not there for him when he had an important meeting coming up and was struggling with the emotions that he was experiencing. I was out with my family enjoying myself. I'm clearly not allowed to do that whilst he's in pain. Unfortunately, he's always in pain and I'm sick to death of having to share his misery. I can barely cope with my own.

Sounds like you and he need to talk about realistic expectations in the relationship.  Is this a discussion you think you can have with him?

I've got a whole list of things that I need to talk to him about... .really important, relationship threatening issues. Left to my own devices, I tend to run away because I hate conflict and I'm scared of the repercussions of having those discussions. I am an emotional wuss and I have to take myself in hand and develop some backbone. Sometimes, I despair of myself.

LW x

I can understand this quite well.  I also do not like confrontation and avoid it where I can.  That said, when things need to be said or when boundaries have been crossed I will "confront" if that is what is needed.  I know the anticipated repercussions give you reason to pause however consider the repercussions of staying silent are likely to be far more damaging.  If I find myself having a hard time with voicing my thoughts then I will put it in a letter.  This way I can say what needs to be said without getting caught up in some caustic emotional exchange and potentially not resolving anything.  Once you get it all out there and any flared emotions have calmed then you can talk in a more productive and constructive fashion, not a confrontational one...  It is important to talk it out after such a letter, the letter just serves as a bridge over the fear of confrontation.

[Lifewriter16]

Thanks C.Stein.

I also do not like confrontation and avoid it where I can.  That said, when things need to be said or when boundaries have been crossed I will "confront" if that is what is needed.  I know the anticipated repercussions give you reason to pause however consider the repercussions of staying silent are likely to be far more damaging.  If I find myself having a hard time with voicing my thoughts then I will put it in a letter.  This way I can say what needs to be said without getting caught up in some caustic emotional exchange and potentially not resolving anything.  Once you get it all out there and any flared emotions have calmed then you can talk in a more productive and constructive fashion, not a confrontational one...   It is important to talk it out after such a letter, the letter just serves as a bridge over the fear of confrontation.

A letter is a good idea. It prevents an immediate reaction and counter-reaction. It might also help me to be very clear about the things that are actually bothering me. And, it'll give me chance to try to validate and say it accurately.

It's time I got very clear on what the problems are for me and what my boundaries need to be. They're just a big muddle in my head labelled 'avoid at all costs' at the moment.

Lifewriter x

[C.Stein]

It's time I got very clear on what the problems are for me and what my boundaries need to be. They're just a big muddle in my head labelled 'avoid at all costs' at the moment.

Make sure you have clarity within yourself before you attempt to have clarity with him.   

[Lifewriter16]

Here's a big question for me:

Is it safe to have discussions with my pwBPD about his criminal conviction for threatening his wife with a knife (he said she battered him regularly and his action was in self-defence); the fact he lied to me about when the event took place (it happened before he married her) and that he went into therapy as a result (he said he left her to go into therapy); the fact he is being cagey/withholding information about his wife's ongoing case with the UK child protection agencies and it's connection with previous social services involvement with the family before they separated (that seems to revolve around the possibility that sexual abuse was taking place)? All of this discussion needs to take place because of my fears for my own safety and that of my children. However, I'm not sure that the fact he's in a programme for batterers means he's taking responsibility for his behaviour.

I'm going to ring the programme he's enrolled in because they give partner/ex partner support.

Lifewriter x

[C.Stein]

If your fears are legitimate, and I feel they are, then you need to discuss it.  This will be difficult because it is obviously a sensitive subject with him.  A carefully written letter might be the best approach to break the ice.

[HurtinNW]

I'm going to respectfully disagree about the letter. While good practice to speak concerns, if he has been dishonest in the past a letter won't make him any more honest. You've said you can't trust his responses to be truthful, and there are serious allegations here that could really hurt your children: sexual abuse, physical assault, and battery.

He could have been forced to go this this program for batterers as part of his post sentencing supervision. In the states this is common. I work in criminal justice so I'm very familiar with how this works. The number of men or women who voluntarily sign up for these programs is very low. The way it works here is going to one of these programs is a condition attached to parole. If he stopped going he would go to prison. These programs can also be a condition if he is involved with children's services.

If you call the program they may not be able to share information about him personally, but they should be able to tell you in general if men are placed there involuntarily.

I'd also suggest you obtain his criminal convictions. Here in the states we simply go to the courthouse. Reading those records will be very informative. Personally I would suggest doing this before putting this man anywhere in proximity of your children or yourself.

I know you are in love with him, but please do separate out your identity of wanting to be a good person, wanting to give many chances, and not give up, from your priorities to your children and yourself.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Hurtin,

It seems quite possible that my BPDbf has been told to go to the aforementioned project by UK social services or that he has referred himself because there is a possibility that his daughter will be taken into care.

His conviction dates back to 2010. According to our local newspaper, his conviction was for 'assault' which I had to look up. Apparently, under UK law, assault is where the defendant "causes another person to apprehend the immediate use of unlawful violence by the defendant" but doesn't include actual physical violence. He was given a 24 month conditional discharge. I got to know about the assault from my BPDbf. He told me quite early on in the relationship that he had smashed up his wife's kitchen. A few weeks in, he told me he had a criminal conviction and much later, he told me he had threatened his wife with a knife.  I've been feeling uneasy for some time, particularly since Cloudten when through such awful events with her then bf. Mine expressed deep regret about it. However, I later discovered he had lied to me about certain details. Namely, that he was so regretful that he moved out of the family home and started therapy so he could become a better father to his daughter. However, he married in 2012 according to his twitter account. He married his wife after all this took place. To me, it's quite possible that he was ordered to leave the family house by social services when they first got involved with the family. And that's the point at which his tale about the child sexual abuse starts to sound somewhat fishy to me. He claims that images of children were found on his step son's DS (or other electronic play device, I can't remember which precisely).

This whole situation looks pretty bleak to me. If I confront it, I put myself at risk and I still won't know whether to believe him or not. If I don't confront it and stay with him, I will always be frightened.

Thanks for your input, Hurtin. This is an awful situation to be in and I appreciate everyone's support. It must be so frustrating looking in on my thought processes wanting to scream for me to do the obvious thing, when I am still showing inclination towards giving him a chance. I'm not sure when I'm going to wake up. I feel like I'm in some kind of dream.

Lifewriter x

[Grey Kitty]

I've got a few thoughts about your letter... .

A letter is a good idea. It prevents an immediate reaction and counter-reaction. It might also help me to be very clear about the things that are actually bothering me. And, it'll give me chance to try to validate and say it accurately.

It's time I got very clear on what the problems are for me and what my boundaries need to be. They're just a big muddle in my head labelled 'avoid at all costs' at the moment.

1. The act of writing a letter is a very good way to clarify some of your own muddle in your head. [And posting a draft of it for discussion on one of the relationship boards is something I can heartily recommend too.]

2. Sending a letter (in general) may not have any chance of the sort of result you actually want... .and this will become more clear as you write it.

3. C.Stein's suggestion that you can put your feelings into a letter and use it as the start of a discussion, getting all your thoughts and feelings out to share before it turns into a triggering confrontation is one excellent use of a letter.

And specific to your situation, I'd like to address this... .

Is it safe to have discussions with my pwBPD about his criminal conviction for threatening his wife with a knife (he said she battered him regularly and his action was in self-defence); the fact he lied to me about when the event took place (it happened before he married her) and that he went into therapy as a result (he said he left her to go into therapy); the fact he is being cagey/withholding information about his wife's ongoing case with the UK child protection agencies and it's connection with previous social services involvement with the family before they separated (that seems to revolve around the possibility that sexual abuse was taking place)? All of this discussion needs to take place because of my fears for my own safety and that of my children. However, I'm not sure that the fact he's in a programme for batterers means he's taking responsibility for his behaviour.

I would separate it into two issues:

A: Finding out what he actually did / was accused of doing / was convicted of doing.

He has already proven himself to be unreliable in giving you that information. I recommend you look for that information from other (more trustworthy) sources like HurtinNW suggested. You may well find that the full knowledge you get will convince you that he's not safe to be in a r/s with or not safe to allow around your children. And you need the information to make that choice for yourself.

B: His deception of you regarding it.

There should be limits on how much of this you are willing to tolerate in somebody you are in a relationship with... .a discussion around how he's crossed lines with you, and doesn't get any more second chances about this is something you can only have with him, and may well need to do.

[HurtinNW]

Hi Hurtin,

It seems quite possible that my BPDbf has been told to go to the aforementioned project by UK social services or that he has referred himself because there is a possibility that his daughter will be taken into care.

His conviction dates back to 2010. According to our local newspaper, his conviction was for 'assault' which I had to look up. Apparently, under UK law, assault is where the defendant "causes another person to apprehend the immediate use of unlawful violence by the defendant" but doesn't include actual physical violence. He was given a 24 month conditional discharge. I got to know about the assault from my BPDbf. He told me quite early on in the relationship that he had smashed up his wife's kitchen. A few weeks in, he told me he had a criminal conviction and much later, he told me he had threatened his wife with a knife.  I've been feeling uneasy for some time, particularly since Cloudten when through such awful events with her then bf. Mine expressed deep regret about it. However, I later discovered he had lied to me about certain details. Namely, that he was so regretful that he moved out of the family home and started therapy so he could become a better father to his daughter. However, he married in 2012 according to his twitter account. He married his wife after all this took place. To me, it's quite possible that he was ordered to leave the family house by social services when they first got involved with the family. And that's the point at which his tale about the child sexual abuse starts to sound somewhat fishy to me. He claims that images of children were found on his step son's DS (or other electronic play device, I can't remember which precisely).

This whole situation looks pretty bleak to me. If I confront it, I put myself at risk and I still won't know whether to believe him or not. If I don't confront it and stay with him, I will always be frightened.

Thanks for your input, Hurtin. This is an awful situation to be in and I appreciate everyone's support. It must be so frustrating looking in on my thought processes wanting to scream for me to do the obvious thing, when I am still showing inclination towards giving him a chance. I'm not sure when I'm going to wake up. I feel like I'm in some kind of dream.

Lifewriter x

I appreciate how receptive and honest you are being. That takes guts. A few things for you to consider:

* A conviction isn't always the whole truth. Often defendants plead down to one charge. He may have been charged with a lot more. That's why getting a hold of the actual court file would be a good idea for you.

* The child sexual abuse is very, very troubling. You know I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. My mother knowingly brought a man into our home that had a history of such things. If there have been any allegations involving this man I believe you owe it to your children to make sure you know every detail. His story isn't just fishy. It sounds like a lie.

* If he was convicted he has a parole agent or supervisor. I'd ask that person about him.

You write that if you don't confront him you will always be frightened. I know that it is true. But I don't think this is about confronting him, and it isn't just about you. It is also about your children. I get the feeling like being in a dream. I've been there too. It really does get better, I promise.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi All,

The issue has been taken out of my hands. I had arranged for my BPDbf to come over to my house to 'talk' whilst the kids were at their father's house on Friday. This was his suggestion.  I had second thoughts about the venue and my personal safety and sent him this:

"On reflection, I think that we should meet in a neutral place rather than at my house, somewhere that feels safe for both of us. If you don't fancy a pub, perhaps Friday night is not such a good idea after all.

And I think it would be a good idea if we each put our feelings/fears down in a letter first then we both get chance to think about what the other person feels in advance of talking about it. Hopefully, this will stop either of us reacting without thinking."

I got a text much later saying:

"No more chances. It's over."

Apparently, whilst I was in the park with my daughter, he sent two emails in response. The first saying:

"OK, what do you suggest?"

The second one, 25 minutes later saying:

"LW, I don't want to do this any more. I gave us a chance to sort this out and I still feel like I'm being messed around. Please let me get on with my life."

Just now (20 minutes later), he emailed as follows:

"Yesterday I was upset and you got hurt. Today we agreed to some space. I was uncomfortable with that and felt like you were running away instead of dealing with our problems.

You contacted me and we agreed to talk. We made an arrangement to meet on Friday at your house.

Now the arrangement has changed and I have doubts as to whether you really want a relationship.

I feel like you're playing games with my emotions and that isn't fair. I don't trust you and I think it would be difficult to talk to you.

As much as it hurts to end this its hurting me a lot more to carry on with it.

This is goodbye, I'm sorry"

Well, that's that then! If we can't arrange a venue, we sure won't be able to talk to each other without him dysregulating.

And to everyone who has supported me throughout this thread, I wish we could meet over coffee and have a chat face-to-face, but I am so grateful that you have all been here with me through my deliberations.

Love Lifewriter x

[Grey Kitty]

LW, I do believe you dodged a bullet. (And I know that feeling all too well!)

Well, that's that then! If we can't arrange a venue, we sure won't be able to talk to each other without him dysregulating.

And to everyone who has supported me throughout this thread, I wish we could meet over coffee and have a chat face-to-face, but I am so grateful that you have all been here with me through my deliberations.

I'm going to suggest you re-frame your conclusion in a way that puts YOU and YOUR needs back into it. How does this sound?

"I'm worth having a relationship partner who can have reasonable discussions about our future together. He has shown me he is incapable of this, and I choose to move on."

 This hope and wish below is genuine. You can have this feeling while you choose to keep your distance:

I wish we could meet over coffee and have a chat face-to-face... .

[Lifewriter16]

I deserve a partner who makes me feel both loved and safe.

I have the right to feel feel safe enough to discuss my fears with my partner, without adding fear of reprisals to my worries.

I choose to move on so I can find a partner who is safe and better able to meet my needs.

I choose to live my life in peace rather than conflict.

[eeks]

I deserve a partner who makes me feel both loved and safe.

I have the right to feel feel safe enough to discuss my fears with my partner, without adding fear of reprisals to my worries.

I choose to move on so I can find a partner who is safe and better able to meet my needs.

I choose to live my life in peace rather than conflict.

     

[Lifewriter16]

The abuse has started by email... .

[Grey Kitty]

The abuse has started by email... .

Sigh... .I suppose that isn't a surprise at this point... .if you need support to deal with it, I think it is a better subject for the Detaching, Deciding, or Saving board instead of Personal Inventory.

[HurtinNW]

The abuse has started by email... .

We are here for you, holding you from afar, telling you that you are safe. Please take whatever steps you need to take care of yourself. I respond well to structuring myself up, making myself busy, organizing my days. What works for you?

And as far as his accusations, they are projecting. You are worth more, so much more.

[Lifewriter16]

On 7th April last year, I made my first post on BPD Family. My BPDxbf and I had split up for the second time in 3 weeks and I'd googled BPD and taken the plunge to post. I was devastated. One year later, I feel so much better than I did. I'd say at least 100% better.

Right now, I'd say I feel a bit alone and I wish I wasn't. I need to make plenty of opportunities to spend social time with people. Not to talk about the breakup, just to experience the validation of being around people who like me. And, I'm going to use the pent up energy I have to get my physical house clean just as I am using it to get my emotional house clean. I managed to do the bath and the hand basin this morning. It's a minor victory, but for me it's success because I haven't felt like doing anything since the current episode with my BPDxbf started with the chance meeting a month or so ago.

I will take good care of myself. And I will transfer to detaching for further posts.

Thanks All.

Lifewriter x

[Grey Kitty]

On 7th April last year, I made my first post on BPD Family. My BPDxbf and I had split up for the second time in 3 weeks and I'd googled BPD and taken the plunge to post. I was devastated. One year later, I feel so much better than I did. I'd say at least 100% better.

Right now, I'd say I feel a bit alone and I wish I wasn't. I need to make plenty of opportunities to spend social time with people. Not to talk about the breakup, just to experience the validation of being around people who like me. And, I'm going to use the pent up energy I have to get my physical house clean just as I am using it to get my emotional house clean. I managed to do the bath and the hand basin this morning. It's a minor victory, but for me it's success because I haven't felt like doing anything since the current episode with my BPDxbf started with the chance meeting a month or so ago.

  What you are dealing with and how you are doing it is fantastic progress, and I see it and I want to congratulate you on how far you've come in a year! (Aside--it can be enlightening to go back and re-read your first posts to see exactly how far you've come!)

I will take good care of myself. And I will transfer to detaching for further posts.

I'm afraid what I said wasn't clear and you took it differently than I meant it. Allow me to start with a quote from pinned topic "Who should post on this board"

This is not a discussion about the borderline in your life; not about what they have done, not about what you need to do to manage them. This is about you, your interface with yourself and the rest of the world.

It seems to me that this topic somehow meandered from introspection to introspection related to your relationship to dealing with your relationship. And those things just kinda happen, and it is OK. So let me clarify:

Please continue posting on the Personal Inventory board about yourself and your own growth. You are doing great work here!

And please continue posting about your relationship as well... .in your case, on the Detaching board next as you said.

The different boards are intended for different subjects, and as a member, please post on any boards that are helpful for you. And do what you can to keep the subject matter of your topics on the board that fits it best.

Does that make more sense?

[Lifewriter16]

It's okay Grey Kitty, I knew what you meant about the boards.

Lifewriter x

[C.Stein]

Well, that's that then! If we can't arrange a venue, we sure won't be able to talk to each other without him dysregulating.

LF, I know you may be disappointed at some level here but don't lament.  You have been spending an enormous amount of time and energy on him and this relationship/reconciliation.   IMO this is time and energy you should be spending on yourself and your own personal growth, so look at this as an opportunity not a loss.