7 months later

[JSF13]

it's been almost 7 months since we split and some months since I have posted or interacted on here. 2 months ago I had visited home and had a pretty big breakdown. While I was home I saw my T who was mine and my exBPDgf couples counselor. I spent our hour together in tears. In fact i spent that ENTIRE day in tears. He spoke to me in depth about what i was up against and what he knew and why he stopped counseling the 2 of us and wanted to have just me. He knew everything but couldn't really tell me because I would have walked on him and he knew I was going to need him to get through this.  When I returned back to my new home all the broken pieces of my life seemed to come together. For the past 2 months things have been looking up and my hurt is slowly going away. I still have my days and I still ruminate at points but the hard facts have outweighed the fictional ending I once clung to. Fact is I stood no chance and I also didn't have a single idea what I signed up for. Even through the hospitals and various T's no one would tell me about what I was facing. It wasn't until I found this place did it all line up. My ex over these past 7 months has on and off tried to recycle. Even as of recently as 2 weeks back even though she has a new bf. I don't respond to her. NC is the absolute way to go. I have absolutely nothing to possibly say. The emotional and physical abuse, destruction of my entire life, the insane manipulation, lies and gaslighting... .Ya I'm all set. However I am not innocent. I made my mistakes and followed though on things she set me up to fail on and I wish I had known better. I wish at points I had better control of my own emotions but I, like all of you was pushed to my limits at points and with such extreme situations we as humans fall to error and break ourselves. What I have learned from this is that I was in a very bad place in life when we met and I allowed this behavior to go on due to not having enough self respect. Granted I still struggle with my own self respect and esteem issues but I will never allow ANYONE to abuse me again. I have walked away from this alive but not without a price. I have my own issues now. PTSD being one of them. I sleep little and I have lots of vivid dreams about when we were together. I cannot fathom being in a relationship now or any time soon. I have substancial wounds to heal and issues to now work though that aren't fair to bring someone into. I also just cannot get close with anyone. This includes new friendships. I forever find myself looking for ANYTHING that doesn't fit correctly. What are their red flags? What do they want with me? What do I potentially stand to lose if things go south? it sucks but I actually am not so mad at it because I feel that before I was forever setting myself up to get screwed. With time the wounds are healing. I don't feel any want to recycle. I recycled enough. I gave all of myself to my ex and it was never enough and I have nothing more to give. I am at peace with knowing this isn't going to change and I cannot save my ex. I have gained some knowledge about who i am and what I am worth and what I will and will not allow in my life. I have excepted that i could potentially be smeared really badly and I am ok with it. I guess I am OK with accepting this is over... .for me. Forever.

[semantics]

I'm 7 months later also and my BPD ex contacted me last month to say he misses us, do I miss us, do I miss him at all. Then two weeks later, to tell me he wishes me the best in life and he is living with someone now. It hasn't even been a full month since I got that news from him, or the reiterating that he is happy in his new life. I feel like I am living on the moon or some parallel universe where time is as warped as a carnival funhouse mirror.

Any loss is a level of trauma, and whatever you went through with this person, you may want to look into EMDR therapy for treatment of PTSD. It helps to eliminate or reduce some of the most extreme triggers, and even if you're still affected -- I mean on top of PTSD, loss is loss: you're in bereavement, grieving -- that high ringing awfulness does get toned down.

I'm also at the place where when anyone says "you'll love again someday" I just feel angry and like I need to throw up. Partly because I'm nowhere near healed from this relationship or its ending -- but also because that sentiment, that you will love again, dismisses the fact that right now I am in deepest pain and need to feel the pain until I am done processing my heart and loss. I have said since late summer that I am treating this whole year -- until at least first anniversary of the breakup -- as my widowhood. Because it's like he killed the man I loved. I honestly do not have any clear understanding of what happened to us; he just turned into someone I didn't even know.

Give yourself time to grieve this. Find the things about YOU that you love. Don't worry about connecting with too many new people right this minute; that will come in time. I feel wary too and tend to just play it all smiling and friendly on the surface, and just be content for the superficial pleasantry. My intent right now is to just persevere, do the grief work, and don't harm anyone during my ups and downs in the healing time.

Forever is hard and it took me a long time to understand that it's probably the only option now. Tonight is my first night voiced on this board and I'm glad to see you here. Hang in there, and ((hugs)).

[Infern0]

7 months isn't long in the grand scheme of things.

My "end" came in July of 2014, although there has been a few "mini-recycles" of a couple of weeks since then, that was when the mask came off and I realized she was not who I thought she was.

So its almost 2 years out for me and I am not yet fully over it, but perhaps 60-70% there.

You can't put a time limit on healing, if you want to heal and you do the work on yourself, one day you will get there

[semantics]

July 2014 specifically was a totally unforgivable hell. I've been baffled all day at how I got suckered back in after that. It sounds like you managed not to, despite some brief recyclings.

I think I'm doing better than I ever have -- in any breakup, with anyone. But it's partly because if I look at this all straight and with some time distance, it's easier to see that we ended at any of several other points. Like I think we broke significantly in 2012. Even though we continued for another 3 years after that, it was never the same. And July 2014 was really one of the worst times I have ever experienced in my life. It's weird that it took another year to break off completely.

I find I feel better (although sometimes also a little worse) if I just think of it as having ended much longer ago than it finally did. And I feel better also, having slowly developed a narrative I can live with.

[Stripey77]

Semantics... .you have successfully described every thought and feeling I have been having the last few months. On another post, someone has asked about dating after this experience. I reiterate what I said on there, we will heal, and we will move on. We all have way too much to offer and give for it to go to waste, grieving the rest of our lives over people who are utterly unable to give us (or indeed anyone) the things we deserve.

But that process does take time. I wrote in my reply on that post that I don't want anyone else. I don't have eyes for anyone else. I love your moon analogy, I have commented elsewhere that if someone told me that an alien ship came down, sucked up my boyfriend and left his double in his place, I'd believe them. This experience really is 'other worldly'. Trying to explain it to others who haven't had this experience how it feels, despite their best intentions to understand... .ultimately, they just can't. I know in his mind he has his reasons, but he has currently painted me so SO black, it's as if he found me in bed with his best friend, or worse. You're right, it truly is like a death... .the man I loved seems totally lost to me. We live in a very small town just minutes apart and I struggle to believe that this person who walks past me as if I were totally invisible, (but I always catch him looking at me) is the same man who used to stare into my eyes and who told me he adored me. It is utterly bewildering. 

We will go on to love again, I so very much want to be in the arms of a loving man again. I want the physical and emotional warmth of a relationship. In my heart of hearts, there is only one man on the planet I want that with. But employing my brain for a second, I know I would be onto a loser. I have never missed someone so much in my life, but as you say, we are almost like widows. I can glean a fair amount of what he's up to through the social media I haven't been blocked on, and to sum up it's drink, drink, drink, drink and more drink. Partying and socialising with the new best (female) friend he groomed whilst recycling me. There is no responsibility needed in a friendship, so hedonism, here we come. Drink seems to be his drug of choice to numb the pain. I cannot even begin to recognise in this drunken, irresponsible child, the incredible man who quite literally took me by the hand around the island, and told me to 'trust him and follow him'. Who said he was here for me, what a wonderful lady I am, how happy he was. Who adored me, and told me so. Who I looked up to and respected. I obviously saw flashes of his childishness before... .but my Prince Charming really does seem to have died. For now. Who ever knows with this illness, what the future may hold? I have painted black, but I am learning to live with it. Everyone else around here in our little town is my friend and I have to find my happiness in that.

The only thought that keeps me going is that in the future, I WILL go on to love again. I am able to love, I am not mentally ill. My heart will heal. But I'm not rushing it either. I've accepted my lot, it is what it is. At 38 I am watching my last remaining single girlfriends suddenly settle down, marry and/or getting pregnant. I thought I would have all of these things in place by now, but life hasn't panned out that way. When I met him last year (it was short lived but by God it was intense) I truly thought I had at last met my other half. But whilst we have breath in our bodies, there is hope, and it's the only thing we can have. I hope to meet someone else, I hope love comes into my life, I hope to not miss him anymore one day. In the meantime, we get up, we live, breathe, have new experiences, make new memories and bide our time. And we are kind to ourselves.   

[NCEA]

I'm so sorry for what you went thru.

This post made me realize that perhaps the best support is to meet up with local people in the same situation, this forum is great but nothing would beat having a local not virtual support group. Ts are good but charge by the minute... .

[GoingBack2OC]

I'm so sorry for what you went thru.

This post made me realize that perhaps the best support is to meet up with local people in the same situation, this forum is great but nothing would beat having a local not virtual support group. Ts are good but charge by the minute... .

I fear this as well. I'm sorry for what you're going through. At least you got to 7 months. I just broke NC at 12 days (I was dumped/discarded as worthless in the coldest way months ago) LC for months, then I went NC... .just to painful.

I've had a lot of girlfriends, and 3 major relationships in my life. I'm 36.

I've never experienced anything like this. The FEAR of this person coming back a year later, reshattering my life.

When I broke off my first 2 major relationships. I was kind, not mean about it, we talked, I said I was sorry, but I fell out of love. I was really sorry, but I cant fake feeling a way I dont.

Then nothing. One called and emailed me for years. I never responded. Because I knew, sensed, it would not help. I just knew, she needed NC.

The 2nd, never called. We ended up meeting up 3 years later for coffee, and it was nice. She's married, with a kid now. It was nice to see eachother, to see she's happy.

This one, my 3rd:  She dumped me in the harshest coldest way, Christmas eve, with the most vile words. 

Then they come back.

Its scary. Very very very scary.

[NCEA]

If you're in London lets meet up and start a group.

I think sometimes people do it in a mean way to make it "easier" in away to the other person, to make them feel that they're not good enough people and aren't worth it anyway, or to avoid that person trying to get back with them. I don't justify it, I think it's awful, just saying.

I'm so sorry for what you went thru.

This post made me realize that perhaps the best support is to meet up with local people in the same situation, this forum is great but nothing would beat having a local not virtual support group. Ts are good but charge by the minute... .

I fear this as well. I'm sorry for what you're going through. At least you got to 7 months. I just broke NC at 12 days (I was dumped/discarded as worthless in the coldest way months ago) LC for months, then I went NC... .just to painful.

I've had a lot of girlfriends, and 3 major relationships in my life. I'm 36.

I've never experienced anything like this. The FEAR of this person coming back a year later, reshattering my life.

When I broke off my first 2 major relationships. I was kind, not mean about it, we talked, I said I was sorry, but I fell out of love. I was really sorry, but I cant fake feeling a way I dont.

Then nothing. One called and emailed me for years. I never responded. Because I knew, sensed, it would not help. I just knew, she needed NC.

The 2nd, never called. We ended up meeting up 3 years later for coffee, and it was nice. She's married, with a kid now. It was nice to see eachother, to see she's happy.

This one, my 3rd:  She dumped me in the harshest coldest way, Christmas eve, with the most vile words. 

Then they come back.

Its scary. Very very very scary.

[Stripey77]

Going Back... .you and I were both discarded at roughly the same time. My last conversation with my ex was on Christmas Eve night/Christmas morning in the small hours. It was pure madness and I walked. We haven't spoken since but he has gone on to pretend I don't even exist when he sees me out and about. It's hell.

You say 'they come back'. Do they? Do they always? Mine has already left me, come back, then disappeared again after making a foray towards me and left me in limbo... .then he came back to seek me out on my birthday and got back together with me for 2 weeks. Then left me in limbo with 3 weeks of silent treatment, then he told me it was over. Again. And then painted me blacker than black after an incident out of his control. Our last contact was him pulling me apart for my drinking, for falling over when I lost my footing on a night out,  for daring to talk to his friends, what a big mistake I'd made, that he doesn't trust me... .on and on and on. I walked away because I couldn't take anymore of being character assassinated by the man I love.  He now cuts me dead on sight, but I see him looking at me. I am still under his skin, that's for sure, as he finds new ways to lash out and 'delete' me. Although, not quite on everything.

I hope he does come back. Not for a recycle, but to be friendly at least. I don't know if he can manage that though, it seems to be either love or hate with him. Probably he feels both for me at the same time.

History would imply that he will indeed speak to me again. I want him to, because the animosity is unbearable for me.

[WoundedBibi]

I hope he does come back. Not for a recycle, but to be friendly at least. I don't know if he can manage that though, it seems to be either love or hate with him. Probably he feels both for me at the same time.

History would imply that he will indeed speak to me again. I want him to, because the animosity is unbearable for me.

From the others on here that have tried friendship, being friendly, LC, whatever you want to call it, I'm afraid the general consensus is: they can't do it.

In your case there is so much shame on his side. You have seen him for who he can be if he looses it and he confessed something is wrong. As I understand it shame for them is too fundamental to get past. That's why I don't expect my ex to ever contact me.

History might imply he will speak to you again. But what if it isn't friendly?

Don't wait for him to do or say something to heal... Your healing must come from you. Why is it so unbearable for you, the animosity? Look inside, do some soul searching. Have you stayed on a friendly footing with every ex? Is there anyone where it ended with animosity? Was it unbearable? Did you get past it?

[Stripey77]

I think namely, because it is so very undeserved. Truly, what a way to  be rewarded and treated after you've loved someone so much.

Secondly, because we live in a tiny town, as I have mentioned, and we all know each other. It is painful, humiliating and strange to be in the same room as the man I love and have him pretend, in front of everyone we know, that I'm not there. It's creating unnecessary tension and melodrama. I realise that it's him creating it and not me, and everyone tells me to keep my head up high. But by God that's hard when your heart is so broken. I also realise that MY friends (i.e. not our mutual friends) are totally on board with me on this and I have support, that he's the problem, that he's not going to do anything to me... .etc. it's just so hurtful.  Let's say, for example, he had found me in bed with his friend. Or I'd sabotaged his business. Or stolen, cheated, lied... .any of those things. Then this treatment might be justified. But I didn't. *

And thirdly, because who the hell wants to be acrimonious with anyone? I don't. Most especially not someone where I invested feelings and who clearly had/has feelings for me. I'm a lover not a fighter Bibi   But seriously, it just sucks.  Yes, for the most part I have managed non acrimonious break ups. Seriously. It's funny you should mention this, I had a horrific, hellish break up 6 years ago with a slightly older guy I lived with. Hellish. I believe he had a full blown break down right in front of my eyes. It almost became physical. Families were involved, I got my marching orders from his house, all because he couldn't accept the love I gave him. Can you believe, in the middle of all of this hell I am going through now, I got word through a mutual friend that my ex from 6 years ago wanted to apologise? I couldn't actually believe it. Acrimonious (on his side) is an understatement for how it ended. I was extremely ill with distress/feeling low afterwards. I actually found him on FB and said I had received his message, although it took me a while to do so. And he replied, saying he had meant every word! He actually took responsibility and said I didn't deserve to have been treated the way I had. That he regretted it. That's what he told my friend. The timing was eerily fortuitous, his reach out and apology making its way to me when, for the 2nd time in my life, a partner's emotional/mental illness was impacting badly. It certainly helped to close that old wound. Unbelievable timing. I suppose I have had some very bad luck in having partners who have been unable to accept being loved and have pushed me away. It is bad luck but that doesn't stop it hurting when you've given your all to someone.  Even if you know it's them not you, as has just been confirmed even with my older ex... .it doesn't make it hurt less. I'm just not that pragmatic, I guess.


*I did say something to his friend that I regret, we were all drinking, and I essentially told them something (true) that gave away that he and I had been back together. I will gladly put my  hands up and say that it's not my proudest moment, and that it would have been better not said. In fact, on Xmas Eve I said as much to him and I agreed with him, and apologised. I'd already done so by text. Obviously that wasn't enough. The essence of why he was so angry with me is tied up in me telling them that thing because it exposed him for having been back in my life and being duplicitous. I will perhaps expand on this another time, but trust me, I apologised for it at quite some length. I think it's irrelevant anyway; he was already not talking to me as he said it was for the best. That's the thing, he seemed to forget when proclaiming that I was deleted from his life, that he was already giving me the silent treatment... .because he knew how much I loved him and it couldn't work.

[WoundedBibi]

The thing is, this is it. This is what he has got to offer. There is no fairytale ending.

Imagine he gets over the pain and the shame he feels about the breakup. Then he still has BPD. He still has his core pain and shame.

A simple greeting as with an acquaintance will only be possible if he is in the right mood and you cannot guess if he will be. The wrong mood and he will growl or ignore, leaving you feeling hurt or awkward again. He might pass into overdrive and another recycle attempt. If you're strong you will say no, he will feel rejected, more drama and alcohol. In short LC or even friendship will also be pain and drama.

A recycle will be shorter, never reach the same highs as before and be filled with pain and drama and end in pain and drama.

A normal relationship isn't possible.

Of course you didn't deserve this. None of us did.

They don't deserve to be mentally ill either. But they are.

You didn't cause his BPD. You cannot control his BPD. You cannot cure his BPD.

[GoingBack2OC]

I hope he does come back. Not for a recycle, but to be friendly at least. I don't know if he can manage that though, it seems to be either love or hate with him. Probably he feels both for me at the same time.

History would imply that he will indeed speak to me again. I want him to, because the animosity is unbearable for me.

From the others on here that have tried friendship, being friendly, LC, whatever you want to call it, I'm afraid the general consensus is: they can't do it.

In your case there is so much shame on his side. You have seen him for who he can be if he looses it and he confessed something is wrong. As I understand it shame for them is too fundamental to get past. That's why I don't expect my ex to ever contact me.

History might imply he will speak to you again. But what if it isn't friendly?

Don't wait for him to do or say something to heal... Your healing must come from you. Why is it so unbearable for you, the animosity? Look inside, do some soul searching. Have you stayed on a friendly footing with every ex? Is there anyone where it ended with animosity? Was it unbearable? Did you get past it?

I'd have to back this up completely.

Things for us turned... .at a specific moment. That moment, was when I called her flat out "You are a liar".  Click.  (Inflection was not that of anger, but pleading, as if trying to convince someone of something... ."Because you need help" tone of voice. Just pure frustration and sadness- not an accusatory, pointing my finger tone of voice.)

She hung up. I think that silent treatment, which proceeded me saying that, lasted a week or more.

She asked later on, "why do you call me a liar?"  

I responded, "Because you tell lies".

Once exposed, once I called the issue out, once she realized I knew, that the game was up... .we were doomed. Shame perhaps has a lot to do with it. Also, I think, once they realize that we've seen their cards, they feel they no longer have an advantage and they don't feel comfortable playing with a fair deck of cards.

[Stripey77]

Both of you, I agree. I really do.

Although I've now expanded on this enough on another thread, Bibi, as you know, my ex is self aware enough to actually try to talk to me when in a good mood without trying to directly get back with me. The first time he talked and talked to me for over and hour, enthusing, being like a bouncy puppy, regaling me with small talk and anecdotes. And then of course gave me a cuddle and then kissed me passionately in front of everyone. After weeks and weeks of silence.  He was a million billion miles off the scowling, angry man who refused to make eye contact with me a few weeks before as I pleaded my case. I asked him on that (angry) night if he'd forgotten me... .as he was asking me to do. Of course, he said no. After the 'bouncy' night when he kissed me, he went silent on me again -  although he insisted on taking a picture of us together and sending that to me the next day, saying it was good I came out the previous evening... .and that was when I lost it. My dad came round to sit with me and talk to me and first floated the idea that my ex had some kind of schizophrenic disorder, or a split personality. It really was like being with 2 people in some ways. We all have different aspects to our persona, but this was something else. You all know what I mean.

I don't even think on my birthday he was intending to take me home with him or get back with me. He literally wanted to talk to me. He waited over an hour in the bar for me to arrive - he was seen by a friend - and jumped on me the minute I got there to wish me happy birthday. Even THEN he said was I sure, was I sure I love him... .after going silent on me. But that it was complicated and I should forget him. He knows something is wrong. He doesn't know what.  It was ME who took the decision to let him lead me out of the bar and home with him, hand in hand. I made that choice. I wanted it in every cell of my body.

I don't expect a fairy tale ending. I just hope for such a conversation again one day, but one in which it ends there... .not, me going home with him or us kissing in front of everyone. Just a friendly conversation and a hug. I can accept that. I'd be glad of it. I guess what you are saying is, that he wouldn't be able to leave it there? He tried to be friendly but then went way over the line and got all mixed up, kissed me, got back together with me... .because he couldn't leave it there as just friends? Maybe.

Going Back... .yup, yup, yup. Just like you calling out her lies. It is no coincidence that just days after he told me his brain is injured and he needs me to heal it... .just days later he went AWOL on me and then leaves me again. He exposed way, way too much of himself to me, and I said tell me, I am going no where. That obviously triggered sheer panic... .and here we are.  I don't know about him feeling at a disadvantage, I just don't think he's that manipulative. In  many ways he is quite child like. As well as childish. I think he told me more than perhaps he has told many people. Ever.

[WoundedBibi]

Both of you, I agree. I really do.

Although I've now expanded on this enough on another thread, Bibi, as you know, my ex is self aware enough to actually try to talk to me when in a good mood without trying to directly get back with me. The first time he talked and talked to me for over and hour, enthusing, being like a bouncy puppy, regaling me with small talk and anecdotes. And then of course gave me a cuddle and then kissed me passionately in front of everyone. After weeks and weeks of silence.  He was a million billion miles off the scowling, angry man who refused to make eye contact with me a few weeks before as I pleaded my case. I asked him on that (angry) night if he'd forgotten me... .as he was asking me to do. Of course, he said no. After the 'bouncy' night when he kissed me, he went silent on me again -  although he insisted on taking a picture of us together and sending that to me the next day, saying it was good I came out the previous evening... .and that was when I lost it. My dad came round to sit with me and talk to me and first floated the idea that my ex had some kind of schizophrenic disorder, or a split personality. It really was like being with 2 people in some ways. We all have different aspects to our persona, but this was something else. You all know what I mean.

I don't even think on my birthday he was intending to take me home with him or get back with me. He literally wanted to talk to me. He waited over an hour in the bar for me to arrive - he was seen by a friend - and jumped on me the minute I got there to wish me happy birthday. Even THEN he said was I sure, was I sure I love him... .after going silent on me. But that it was complicated and I should forget him. He knows something is wrong. He doesn't know what.  It was ME who took the decision to let him lead me out of the bar and home with him, hand in hand. I made that choice. I wanted it in every cell of my body.

I don't expect a fairy tale ending. I just hope for such a conversation again one day, but one in which it ends there... .not, me going home with him or us kissing in front of everyone. Just a friendly conversation and a hug. I can accept that. I'd be glad of it. I guess what you are saying is, that he wouldn't be able to leave it there? He tried to be friendly but then went way over the line and got all mixed up, kissed me, got back together with me... .because he couldn't leave it there as just friends? Maybe.

Going Back... .yup, yup, yup. Just like you calling out her lies. It is no coincidence that just days after he told me his brain is injured and he needs me to heal it... .just days later he went AWOL on me and then leaves me again. He exposed way, way too much of himself to me, and I said tell me, I am going no where. That obviously triggered sheer panic... .and here we are.  I don't know about him feeling at a disadvantage, I just don't think he's that manipulative. In  many ways he is quite child like. As well as childish. I think he told me more than perhaps he has told many people. Ever.

That might be the issue. If you know he is damaged how can he ever feel comfortable enough around you to be a man again, or a bouncy puppy (I know the bouncy puppy too... ) or anything than filled with shame around you? BPD is shame based.

[GoingBack2OC]

Going Back... .yup, yup, yup. Just like you calling out her lies. It is no coincidence that just days after he told me his brain is injured and he needs me to heal it... .just days later he went AWOL on me and then leaves me again. He exposed way, way too much of himself to me, and I said tell me, I am going no where. That obviously triggered sheer panic... .and here we are.  I don't know about him feeling at a disadvantage, I just don't think he's that manipulative. In  many ways he is quite child like. As well as childish. I think he told me more than perhaps he has told many people. Ever.

I didn't mean disadvantage in the sense that the relationship is a game, where each partner is trying to win and be right. Being in a healthy relationship means both partners win, both partners compromise, and both partners need to be willing to lose sometimes-- the term pick your battles. You have to give more than you get, and that's true for both partners in the relationship.

When I said disadvantage, I meant that for your ex, my ex, a person with something like BPD or especially NPD-- they have, over many years, developed coping mechanisms and ways to deal with conflict in their life.

So when you call them out, their defense mechanisms, which are deeply rooted by this point, their "defense strategies" which for someone with BPD or NPD are meant to be theirs and theirs alone, they are now exposed.

We all have defense mechanisms. A healthy person is willing to talk about it with their loved one. They are willing to allow their partner to know "why" they are upset, "why" they are acting that way... .a healthy person seeks to resolve.

My last girlfriend, we rarely, I mean rarely fought. 3.5 Years together, and when we did fight we joked and laughed while we fought, that we fought like an old couple-- we really only bickered when those moments happened. It was funny.

This ex, we fight. I've never, in my life, with anyone, fought like this. I've had disagreements with people. But fight? Consistently? That isn't healthy. It isn't fun. It won't lead to good things, it will affect all aspects of your life and drag you down into the darkest place.

Funny thing is... .my exGFuBPD says I like drama. She says I am the one who likes drama. It's really beyond me.

[GoingBack2OC]

Both of you, I agree. I really do.

Although I've now expanded on this enough on another thread, Bibi, as you know, my ex is self aware enough to actually try to talk to me when in a good mood without trying to directly get back with me. The first time he talked and talked to me for over and hour, enthusing, being like a bouncy puppy, regaling me with small talk and anecdotes. And then of course gave me a cuddle and then kissed me passionately in front of everyone. After weeks and weeks of silence.  He was a million billion miles off the scowling, angry man who refused to make eye contact with me a few weeks before as I pleaded my case. I asked him on that (angry) night if he'd forgotten me... .as he was asking me to do. Of course, he said no. After the 'bouncy' night when he kissed me, he went silent on me again -  although he insisted on taking a picture of us together and sending that to me the next day, saying it was good I came out the previous evening... .and that was when I lost it. My dad came round to sit with me and talk to me and first floated the idea that my ex had some kind of schizophrenic disorder, or a split personality. It really was like being with 2 people in some ways. We all have different aspects to our persona, but this was something else. You all know what I mean.

I don't even think on my birthday he was intending to take me home with him or get back with me. He literally wanted to talk to me. He waited over an hour in the bar for me to arrive - he was seen by a friend - and jumped on me the minute I got there to wish me happy birthday. Even THEN he said was I sure, was I sure I love him... .after going silent on me. But that it was complicated and I should forget him. He knows something is wrong. He doesn't know what.  It was ME who took the decision to let him lead me out of the bar and home with him, hand in hand. I made that choice. I wanted it in every cell of my body.

I don't expect a fairy tale ending. I just hope for such a conversation again one day, but one in which it ends there... .not, me going home with him or us kissing in front of everyone. Just a friendly conversation and a hug. I can accept that. I'd be glad of it. I guess what you are saying is, that he wouldn't be able to leave it there? He tried to be friendly but then went way over the line and got all mixed up, kissed me, got back together with me... .because he couldn't leave it there as just friends? Maybe.

Going Back... .yup, yup, yup. Just like you calling out her lies. It is no coincidence that just days after he told me his brain is injured and he needs me to heal it... .just days later he went AWOL on me and then leaves me again. He exposed way, way too much of himself to me, and I said tell me, I am going no where. That obviously triggered sheer panic... .and here we are.  I don't know about him feeling at a disadvantage, I just don't think he's that manipulative. In  many ways he is quite child like. As well as childish. I think he told me more than perhaps he has told many people. Ever.

That might be the issue. If you know he is damaged how can he ever feel comfortable enough around you to be a man again, or a bouncy puppy (I know the bouncy puppy too... ) or anything than filled with shame around you? BPD is shame based.

Exactly. We are ALL damaged. Everyone is. We all experience the emotion of shame. There isnt a person here on this board that doesnt regret things they have done, or feel ashamed of things they have done or said.

But BPD/NPDs, the exposure is highly threatening.

A question for you all:

I found, in my relationship with my exGFuBPD, that I would quickly apologize had I done something wrong (which I did, I made mistakes). I would apologize and was humble and beared my humility when I knew I was wrong.

My ex, would not apologize. They were faaaaaar and few in between.  Most times, I had to actually ask for the apology.  And one time, I told her I felt I expected an apology for "yesterday", so she said: 

"Look I am really sorry I am, I know, I'm sorry ok, I just, I'm not sure what I'm apologizing for".

I didn't say this, but wanted to say "how about blowing me off, ignoring my calls, and when we finally did speak, you screamed at me, called me horrific names, cursed at me, and hung up.".

I'm the one who loves drama... .so she says.

[Stripey77]

Haha well if it makes you feel any better, Going Back, and I wrote this on another thread somewhere, I like to refer to myself as 'The Problem Maker'. I actually found a t shirt with that on it the other day, boy oh boy was I tempted to buy it to wear around town. I managed to stop myself... .just.  

Talk started creeping at around 3 months or so in, about 'we've been having problems'. Guess what, every one of those problems was something I had said or done, never him. He then told me on another night that I'm a wonderful woman, he adored me, but "I don't want any problems". Problems, it turned out, seemed to be ever disagreeing with anything he had done, or daring to call him out on unwanted behaviours. Just twice in all the time I was with him has he apologised when I told him he'd upset me - once for bossing me around and expecting me just to do what he wanted to do. The 2nd, asking to meet me in town and then getting so drunk he ended up going home to fall asleep. Both times I got a very rapid "sorry". Almost like it pained him to say it... .like the Fonz. Or... .hey! Like a child! He apologised once for something totally innocuous, but that was at his own instigation, not because I asked for it. See the difference? That apology was heartfelt and even reiterated by text. But for the most part, I began to find the finger being pointed more and more in my direction as the source of problems.

The funny thing is, these so called 'problems' were such minor, minor things, I myself wouldn't have batted an eyelid about them. Because he is melodramatic, he built up their significance. It felt as if he were stacking them together to build a case against me. It didn't matter about the 101 nice things I did for him, the tiny human errors I made meant so much more.

And so, the day he went over the top and lost his cool, and decided it was over (although I had to endure 3 days of silent treatment first to find this out) guess what he was shouting at me?

"I TOLD YOU I DON'T WANT ANY PROBLEMS".

I've not written this on here until now, but the problem in question, by the way, was a roughly 20 minute conversation in which I was trying to get across to him why him answering his phone, in the middle of us having a heart to heart, was upsetting for me. He could not see it at all. Having just told me how he felt about me and how important I was to him, as I tried to reciprocate, he answered a text. Then made a phone call, and then texted again. He was talking to friends back in his country as one of them had just texted to say that they were going to become a father. This upset me and I had told him before that I felt 2nd fiddle to his phone at times. His bad mood descended on him like a mist... .I watched it happen. He told me that there was nothing, nothing I could possibly be saying that was more important than what his friend was saying to him, Even though he didn't know what they were texting, and wouldn't have if he hadn't looked at his phone.  He hadn't even heard that I was replying to him to say how important he is to me... .because he was reading the message. He told me that as he is a single child, his friends are like brothers to him, and did I think that I was more important than them? He leapt up after declaring that we'd been talking for an hour about this - which we hadn't - and made it very clear that the date was over. He barked at me the above 'problems' statement. When I ran after him saying I loved him he told me it was "too late!" He was fuming - or acting as if he were anyway - and marched off full steam ahead in a swirl of melodrama. Such drama. I stopped trying to implore him. Here I was, apologising for asking him not to make a phone call in the middle of me telling him how much he meant to me - in a conversation he had instigated.  He drove me home, in disgrace, and in total silence for about 40 minutes. He said "did I need an explanation?" in a withering tone, as if I were a stupid child. The only thing he did say, more than once, was that he'd been looking forward to the weekend after working hard all week, and looking forward to being with me, and all I wanted to do was have this fight. So thanks a lot. THANKS A LOT.  I had ruined it. When we got to my complex he could hardly look at me, although I managed to get a kiss goodbye. 3 days later I got dumped, by text, with the first reason given that it was too soon to expect to be 'no.1 in my life'.  

I am the problem maker.  

[hopealways]

I hear you. I also am almost afraid of the day I am fully over my BPDx because then it would make all these years of suffering seem almost irrelevant and unnecessary. But writing this just reminded me that I grieved not for her but for healing my inner wounds, and that is absolutely necessary. I do have our dysfunctional relationship to thank for that.