communication tools and how to get off the triangle

[Depression = 72% of members]

I just had a really good session with my counselor, and we discussed Karpman Triangle, JADEing, and applying owning our own feelings in communication techniques. Just thought I'd share them so I can try to absorb them myself, and perhaps it will be useful to someone else as well.

I posted an article I recently got as a newsletter about the Karpman triangle on another thread here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=293401.10 That article really struck home for me. I told my T that sometimes I absolutely know I'm on that triangle but don't know how to get off it. So we discussed the mechanism that keeps me on--in my case (maybe for others too) it is JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). This is a coping method that goes waaaaay back into childhood for me. (In childhood, more emphasis on defend and explain, because justify and argue were definitely not allowed--but I have developed those more fully as an adult, thinking I was "overcoming" the defend and explain facets with the justify and argue parts. Didn't know they all went together). And yes, Transactional Analysis works pretty well for me  

So here is the communication formula she gave me to "short circuit" (if you will) the JADE slide onto the triangle:

(1) what happened?

(2) what did that make me think?

(3) How did those thoughts make me feel?

(4) What is my goal?

And of course she recommends that I go through all 4 questions in my mind before opening my mouth (which is going to make for some weird conversations with long gaps for a while until I get practiced at this, )

Here is the example that we used in the session, with the story so you understand the example--story first: about 6 years ago, I had a hysterectomy. I am a firefighter and my ex also was at that time (I still am, he quit about 4 years ago). When we left for the hospital, ex stopped the car in the middle of the driveway and ran back to the house, presumably for something he forgot. He came back with his fire pager and radio. I was astounded and outraged. I said "what are you doing?" and he rolled his eyes and said ":)UH! getting my pager and radio!" I sat there for a minute, too angry to even speak. Then I said "why?" and he again rolled his eyes, and then said ":)UH! In case there's an emergency/fire call!" OK, now I'm REALLY upset... .I said "OK, so if the pager goes off on the way to the hospital, are you going to dump me out on the side of the road and expect me to hitch-hike so you can respond to a strangers emergency instead of mine?" He got angry and called me a drama queen.

This incident was very hurtful for me, and it got brought up many times, and only got worse each time. The last time it got brought up, I tried to explain my hurt about it instead of just jabbing my angry accusations at him. I made myself quite vulnerable and poured out my pain. He was silent, so I mistakenly thought he was receptive and listening. But pretty soon he interrupted me and said "you know what I think the problem here is? The problem is, you can't deal with it if you aren't the center of attention. You need to be center of attention at all times or you become a drama queen." and he got up and walked off.

Look, I'm STILL angry about this. I was so angry I couldn't even sort it out for myself--that [in hindsight] it was OK for me to want his undivided attention when I was having a major surgery, and that didn't qualify as "ALL THE TIME" or "drama queen" behavior. But that's a different story--see me jumping on the JADE slide into the triangle right there?  

OK, so here's the communication technique, using that example, that I could have done when the issue was raised again... .

(1) what happened? "you went back to get your pager and radio when we were on the way to the hospital for my surgery"

(2) what did that make me think? "That made me think I wasn't important to you, that others emergencies were more important to you than mine"

(3) How did those thoughts make me feel? "That made me feel unloved, uncared about, hurt and angry."

(4) what is/was my goal? "I wanted your undivided attention at a time when I was scared and needed your emotional support. I want you to understand why I felt hurt and angry."

Even in the example, I want to JADE. I want to do this:

(1) what happened? "you went back to get your pager and radio when we were on the way to the hospital for my surgery"

(2) what did that make me think? "That made me think I wasn't important to you, that others emergencies were more important to you than mine" bypass examining this at all, and accept it as an external truth

(3) How did those thoughts make me feel? "That made me feel unloved, uncared about, hurt and angry." add "and justifiably so! Your actions are reprehensible and callous, and... .blah, blah, blah"

(4) what is/was my goal? "I wanted your undivided attention at a time when I was scared and needed your emotional support. I want you to understand why I felt hurt and angry." scratch all of that and make the goal to let him know he is an S.O.B. Um, which doesn't accomplish much in the way of a goal.

I am trying hard here to just own my own part, not the whole thing (or nothing), because I have a tendency to those extremes here. When I see that I could have communicated a whole lot better, with my end result/goal completely different, then I have a tendency to dismiss his behavior entirely (which WAS insensitive and callous) and say it was all my fault for not being "error-free". In actuality, had I used this technique of communication, I believe that ex would still have said similar things to what he did, just worded a bit differently. But I could have seen his response as his dysfunction and inability to care (as our former shared T told me "because of his particular mental illness, [ex] is not capable of the genuine and sincere emotional interaction required in an intimate relationship" and it's true). I could have seen his insensitive remarks as HIS brokenness, instead of as outrageous direct attacks on me.

Which brings us back to (as usual) boundaries. Protecting ourselves from others behavior--not trying to change their behavior.

Quite honestly, sometimes when I see the JADE and triangle, all I can comprehend is either doing that or withdrawing completely and not participating at all. Which is NOT a new, more healthy method. Hopefully this communication technique provides another path.

[doubleAries]

I just had a really good session with my counselor, and we discussed Karpman Triangle, JADEing, and applying owning our own feelings in communication techniques. Just thought I'd share them so I can try to absorb them myself, and perhaps it will be useful to someone else as well.

I posted an article I recently got as a newsletter about the Karpman triangle on another thread here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=293401.10 That article really struck home for me. I told my T that sometimes I absolutely know I'm on that triangle but don't know how to get off it. So we discussed the mechanism that keeps me on--in my case (maybe for others too) it is JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). This is a coping method that goes waaaaay back into childhood for me. (In childhood, more emphasis on defend and explain, because justify and argue were definitely not allowed--but I have developed those more fully as an adult, thinking I was "overcoming" the defend and explain facets with the justify and argue parts. Didn't know they all went together). And yes, Transactional Analysis works pretty well for me  

So here is the communication formula she gave me to "short circuit" (if you will) the JADE slide onto the triangle:

(1) what happened?

(2) what did that make me think?

(3) How did those thoughts make me feel?

(4) What is my goal?

And of course she recommends that I go through all 4 questions in my mind before opening my mouth (which is going to make for some weird conversations with long gaps for a while until I get practiced at this, )

Here is the example that we used in the session, with the story so you understand the example--story first: about 6 years ago, I had a hysterectomy. I am a firefighter and my ex also was at that time (I still am, he quit about 4 years ago). When we left for the hospital, ex stopped the car in the middle of the driveway and ran back to the house, presumably for something he forgot. He came back with his fire pager and radio. I was astounded and outraged. I said "what are you doing?" and he rolled his eyes and said ":)UH! getting my pager and radio!" I sat there for a minute, too angry to even speak. Then I said "why?" and he again rolled his eyes, and then said ":)UH! In case there's an emergency/fire call!" OK, now I'm REALLY upset... .I said "OK, so if the pager goes off on the way to the hospital, are you going to dump me out on the side of the road and expect me to hitch-hike so you can respond to a strangers emergency instead of mine?" He got angry and called me a drama queen.

This incident was very hurtful for me, and it got brought up many times, and only got worse each time. The last time it got brought up, I tried to explain my hurt about it instead of just jabbing my angry accusations at him. I made myself quite vulnerable and poured out my pain. He was silent, so I mistakenly thought he was receptive and listening. But pretty soon he interrupted me and said "you know what I think the problem here is? The problem is, you can't deal with it if you aren't the center of attention. You need to be center of attention at all times or you become a drama queen." and he got up and walked off.

Look, I'm STILL angry about this. I was so angry I couldn't even sort it out for myself--that [in hindsight] it was OK for me to want his undivided attention when I was having a major surgery, and that didn't qualify as "ALL THE TIME" or "drama queen" behavior. But that's a different story--see me jumping on the JADE slide into the triangle right there?  

OK, so here's the communication technique, using that example, that I could have done when the issue was raised again... .

(1) what happened? "you went back to get your pager and radio when we were on the way to the hospital for my surgery"

(2) what did that make me think? "That made me think I wasn't important to you, that others emergencies were more important to you than mine"

(3) How did those thoughts make me feel? "That made me feel unloved, uncared about, hurt and angry."

(4) what is/was my goal? "I wanted your undivided attention at a time when I was scared and needed your emotional support. I want you to understand why I felt hurt and angry."

Even in the example, I want to JADE. I want to do this:

(1) what happened? "you went back to get your pager and radio when we were on the way to the hospital for my surgery"

(2) what did that make me think? "That made me think I wasn't important to you, that others emergencies were more important to you than mine" bypass examining this at all, and accept it as an external truth

(3) How did those thoughts make me feel? "That made me feel unloved, uncared about, hurt and angry." add "and justifiably so! Your actions are reprehensible and callous, and... .blah, blah, blah"

(4) what is/was my goal? "I wanted your undivided attention at a time when I was scared and needed your emotional support. I want you to understand why I felt hurt and angry." scratch all of that and make the goal to let him know he is an S.O.B. Um, which doesn't accomplish much in the way of a goal.

I am trying hard here to just own my own part, not the whole thing (or nothing), because I have a tendency to those extremes here. When I see that I could have communicated a whole lot better, with my end result/goal completely different, then I have a tendency to dismiss his behavior entirely (which WAS insensitive and callous) and say it was all my fault for not being "error-free". In actuality, had I used this technique of communication, I believe that ex would still have said similar things to what he did, just worded a bit differently. But I could have seen his response as his dysfunction and inability to care (as our former shared T told me "because of his particular mental illness, [ex] is not capable of the genuine and sincere emotional interaction required in an intimate relationship" and it's true). I could have seen his insensitive remarks as HIS brokenness, instead of as outrageous direct attacks on me.

Which brings us back to (as usual) boundaries. Protecting ourselves from others behavior--not trying to change their behavior.

Quite honestly, sometimes when I see the JADE and triangle, all I can comprehend is either doing that or withdrawing completely and not participating at all. Which is NOT a new, more healthy method. Hopefully this communication technique provides another path.