PA ST

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've been dealing with passive aggressive silent treatment with someone I've been seeing. The ST has lasted a month so far, and it's because I asked a question about our relationship. he's also someone I have to see a few times a week. I go back and forth on feeling positive that he's pushing me away to a healthier happier me, but on the days I have to see him, I'm angry. I take it out on others as well which is no good  ugh why do I feel these back and forth feelings?

Also- I have read that passive aggressive silent treatment is a defense mechanism for anger. Why would he be angry that I'm asking where we stand? So confused!

[Puzzledpieces]

I've been dealing with passive aggressive silent treatment with someone I've been seeing. The ST has lasted a month so far, and it's because I asked a question about our relationship. he's also someone I have to see a few times a week. I go back and forth on feeling positive that he's pushing me away to a healthier happier me, but on the days I have to see him, I'm angry. I take it out on others as well which is no good  ugh why do I feel these back and forth feelings?

Also- I have read that passive aggressive silent treatment is a defense mechanism for anger. Why would he be angry that I'm asking where we stand? So confused!

[once removed]

what did you ask about the relationship? whats the background here?

[Puzzledpieces]

Where "this relaionship" was going . In my mind a very simple question to answer considering we've been seeing each other for months and sleeping together.

I usually get the ST when I bring up anything that would require him to explore his feelings or tell me what he feels. ST use to only last a week. This is the longest one yet.

There is a more detailed post about it that I wrote a few days ago, not sure if it's something you can find quickly or not?  I'm just struggling with the emotions today

[once removed]

I'm just struggling with the emotions today

thats understandable. silent treatment is abusive, and its a high anxiety inducing situation.

it sounds like this is the norm. you ask for some clarity, you get stonewalled.

so whats in it for you? is this the kind of relationship or person you want?

[Puzzledpieces]

Great question! and one I can't answer, I don't know why it bothers me so much. The majority of the time I know that I deserve better and I'm worth more. For the longest time I've been telling myself that the beginning of our "relationship" wasn't real (it was amazing and he was not the same person) I get angry on the days I have to see him because I feel like I deserve respect and answers and I think all this that its escalated to is ridiculous. His passivity and carefree actions piss me off as well. Especially since he goes out of his way to be near me, yet won't initiate a conversation.  Why not just answer the question? If it was just about sex, cool. We go our separate ways because that's not what I'm looking for. I don't see the big deal, and I don't understand how someone can be uncaring towards another person when I've expressed plenty how I feel.

I really don't know why I let it take over my head, I know I'm better than this. I'll keep asking myself "what's in it for me?" Like you've asked me and hopefully this will help me keep on moving forward with confidence.

[once removed]

His passivity and carefree actions piss me off as well. Especially since he goes out of his way to be near me, yet won't initiate a conversation. 

it does sound like youre dealing with an immature person. captain obvious here 

it also sounds like, by his actions, he is answering the question. this is your relationship, and the relationship you can expect to have.

i understand the frustration, especially having to be around him, it would drive me up a wall too.

have you had an opportunity to read about Radical Acceptance  ? this is who he is. frustrating as it is, there is nothing you can do to change his behavior, only yours, and how you react to it, or dont. i find when that sinks in for me, its actually a very freeing feeling.

[Puzzledpieces]

Definitely immature!

I agree his ST answers my question. I just find it so frustrating that he can't have an adult conversation about it. He's in his late 30s but that probably doesn't matter.

I won't take it personally, as I know that he has had "friends with benefits" before me, but I wasn't expecting to be one and refused to be one, but obviously ended up being one if that makes sense . Ugh.  I guess he kept me off guard with all the push/pull he did, never being upfront about anything real etc.

I honesty would've been happy with a regular friendship with him, I do care about him a lot (even though I am starting to dislike him more as each day goes by) I had asked him the Q I did because if it was going no where then I didn't want to have a fwb type of relationship. So maybe he discarded me before I had the chance to?

I don't mean to come off as judgy by this but I don't see him as a typical d-bag guy that just wants sex. He's a geeky loner type of guy that would probably rather play video games than go on a date .

[Fr4nz]

Great question! and one I can't answer, I don't know why it bothers me so much. The majority of the time I know that I deserve better and I'm worth more. For the longest time I've been telling myself that the beginning of our "relationship" wasn't real (it was amazing and he was not the same person) I get angry on the days I have to see him because I feel like I deserve respect and answers and I think all this that its escalated to is ridiculous. His passivity and carefree actions piss me off as well. Especially since he goes out of his way to be near me, yet won't initiate a conversation.  Why not just answer the question? If it was just about sex, cool. We go our separate ways because that's not what I'm looking for. I don't see the big deal, and I don't understand how someone can be uncaring towards another person when I've expressed plenty how I feel.

I really don't know why I let it take over my head, I know I'm better than this. I'll keep asking myself "what's in it for me?" Like you've asked me and hopefully this will help me keep on moving forward with confidence.

From what you wrote, I see clearly here both the fear of being abandoned (he goes to great extents to reach out) and the fear of engulfment (you get the ST when you try to clarify the situation).

Now, he may be just an immature person, but... .Is he BPD diagnosed?

[Puzzledpieces]

From what you wrote, I see clearly here both the fear of being abandoned (he goes to great extents to reach out) and the fear of engulfment (you get the ST when you try to clarify the situation).

Now, he may be just an immature person, but... .Is he BPD diagnosed?

so you see me having a fear of abandonment and him a fear of engulfment? I like getting these perspective from "outside the window" they're refreshing and I can see that in a new light now as well.

Honestly I haven't a clue if he's been diagnosed. He's a closed book. I did a lot of researching for months on his actions and well, pretty much everything, because I was left to figure him out on my own with no help from him. Mostly what came up was BPD and narcissism. I find he relates more to the covert aspect and the acting in. He's not raging nor has he lost his temper with me, he's quiet. I just know there's more to him than just being a typical d bag dude. I registered here on this website regardless for support, I can relate him with many posts here, I think that's why it's so frustrating for me - cuz I just don't know :/  I actually recall a convo I had with his mom once (I see her sometimes)  when we first started "dating" and we spoke of him and she almost gave me that impression that she didn't expect things to work out. I just got that feeling, if that makes sense... .Like she just knew. Was weird.

[Fr4nz]

From what you wrote, I see clearly here both the fear of being abandoned (he goes to great extents to reach out) and the fear of engulfment (you get the ST when you try to clarify the situation).

Now, he may be just an immature person, but... .Is he BPD diagnosed?

so you see me having a fear of abandonment and him a fear of engulfment? I like getting these perspective from "outside the window" they're refreshing and I can see that in a new light

now as well.

Hehe no, you got me wrong

I see both fears in him, not in you!

BUT, since you mentioned it... .do you think to have fears of abandonment? This could be an interesting insight for you... .

Honestly I haven't a clue if he's been diagnosed. He's a closed book. I did a lot of researching for months on his actions and well, pretty much everything, because I was left to figure him out on my own with no help from him. Mostly what came up was BPD and narcissism. I find he relates more to the covert aspect and the acting in. He's not raging nor has he lost his temper with me, he's quiet. I just know there's more to him than just being a typical d bag dude. I registered here on this website regardless for support, I can relate him with many posts here, I think that's why it's so frustrating for me - cuz I just don't know :/  I actually recall a convo I had with his mom once (I see her sometimes)  when we first started "dating" and we spoke of him and she almost gave me that impression that she didn't expect things to work out. I just got that feeling, if that makes sense... .Like she just knew. Was weird.

Well, given what you said... .the only advice I can give you, at this point, is to keep your antennas out, and see what happens.

If he gives you the ST once more, take that as a clear sign that he doesn't want a serious, committed relationship with you.

He can be just immature... .or perhaps a BPD, but it doesn't really matter: point is, ST is an immature and abusive behaviour that he uses as a tool to avoid discussing the future with you and basically keep you as a friend with benefits. As you said, there's nothing bad in this, but he should be honest

A hug

[Puzzledpieces]

Hehe no, you got me wrong

I see both fears in him, not in you!

BUT, since you mentioned it... .do you think to have fears of abandonment? This could be an interesting insight for you... .

I just a page on vitalitylink.com about both of these fears and how they compare. I definitely see him having a fear of engulfment 100%. And the fear of abandonment but not as strong, maybe that's where the push pull comes from?

I can see me having some of these fear of abandonment traits listed as well. I don't fall hard to be point of being needy but I definitely care maybe too much for people sometimes which can come off that way perhaps?

Well, given what you said... .the only advice I can give you, at this point, is to keep your antennas out, and see what happens.

If he gives you the ST once more, take that as a clear sign that he doesn't want a serious, committed relationship with you.

He can be just immature... .or perhaps a BPD, but it doesn't really matter: point is, ST is an immature and abusive behaviour that he uses as a tool to avoid discussing the future with you and basically keep you as a friend with benefits. As you said, there's nothing bad in this, but he should be honest

A hug

It's rather strange because the push pull method also applies for this ST. If I text him (which I haven't done in more than a week) he doesn't reply like he use to, Infact I gave up texting him because, well it makes you feel stupid having convos with yourself ! No, I felt disrespected and ignored so I stopped. But in person when I have to see him 3x a week for non personal reasons he's quiet unless I initiate. He will act completely normal towards me if I approach him. He lingers around me to see if I will, I can feel that. It just makes me feel like I'm dealing with 2 different people. One who does ST in texts and another who acts normal if I reach out in person.

This is probably his way of distancing me so I don't "expect" anything more from him, your probably right.  Why wouldn't he just say what he is or isn't looking for instead of these games? I've given up on a relationship with this guy I think, too dramatic for me. But I really did value his friendship a great deal, and I'm sad to see that disappear this way.

[Fr4nz]

Hehe no, you got me wrong

I see both fears in him, not in you!

BUT, since you mentioned it... .do you think to have fears of abandonment? This could be an interesting insight for you... .

I just a page on vitalitylink.com about both of these fears and how they compare. I definitely see him having a fear of engulfment 100%. And the fear of abandonment but not as strong, maybe that's where the push pull comes from?

Absolutely! Engulfement => PUSH, abandonment => PULL. So, the more you push, the more he retreats... .conversely, the more you stay away, the more he pulls.

It's rather strange because the push pull method also applies for this ST. If I text him (which I haven't done in more than a week) he doesn't reply like he use to, Infact I gave up texting him because, well it makes you feel stupid having convos with yourself ! No, I felt disrespected and ignored so I stopped. But in person when I have to see him 3x a week for non personal reasons he's quiet unless I initiate. He will act completely normal towards me if I approach him. He lingers around me to see if I will, I can feel that. It just makes me feel like I'm dealing with 2 different people. One who does ST in texts and another who acts normal if I reach out in person.

This is probably his way of distancing me so I don't "expect" anything more from him, your probably right.  Why wouldn't he just say what he is or isn't looking for instead of these games? I've given up on a relationship with this guy I think, too dramatic for me. But I really did value his friendship a great deal, and I'm sad to see that disappear this way.

If he truly is BPD... .then, it is well known that friendships with BPDs are almost impossible; this is mainly due to the fact that such friendships are, most of the times, one-sided and filled with drama.

Anyway, you are the only one to know the full situation, so you will decide accordingly

[Puzzledpieces]

I have retreated for over a week now and haven't contacted him or spoken to him in person, it's been quiet. Is it unusual to not hear from them for this long?

I have had a female friend with BPD a few years back that was complete drama constantly she was the text book version and needless to say I had to cut the strings on that friendship. I do notice similarities with the guy I speak of now, but it's also a different type of friendship as sex was involved and it was on a "romantic" level.

Do you think that's why he doesn't have any friends? (You mentioned friendship is impossible for them) he literally hangs out with no one, it's strange.

I think it was you that asked me yesterday "what's in it for you?" Correct? I'd have to take a look back. But that's stuck with me since I read it and I even made those words my background on my cell phone for a constant reminder.

[Puzzledpieces]

Sorry that was "once removed" that asked me "what's in it for you?" 

[Fr4nz]

I have retreated for over a week now and haven't contacted him or spoken to him in person, it's been quiet. Is it unusual to not hear from them for this long?

Not at all... .actually, BPD sufferers may come back (if they do... .but they do that often) even after months... .or years. This is due to the fact that BPD is, among other things, an attachment disorder.

I have had a female friend with BPD a few years back that was complete drama constantly she was the text book version and needless to say I had to cut the strings on that friendship. I do notice similarities with the guy I speak of now, but it's also a different type of friendship as sex was involved and it was on a "romantic" level.

Do you think that's why he doesn't have any friends? (You mentioned friendship is impossible for them) he literally hangs out with no one, it's strange.

Well, even if BPD sufferers' patterns of thoughts and behaviours are well-known and defined, each BPD sufferer is an individual with its own peculiarities - Millon even defined several BPD subtypes (have a look at the wikipedia page!).

So, each sufferer is a case per se and this adds complexity to the matter... .however, patterns are the same, just "acted out" in different ways by different individuals.

About the "friends" thing: yes, BPD sufferers are - usually - unable to sustain long-term, close relationships, be it a friendship, a romantic r/s or even a job r/s (I guess the "intensity" of this depends whether they are high- or low-functioning).

Sufferers are usually very able to get to know new people, and even make them incredibly appreciate the sufferer in the beginning - indeed, BPDs tend to have incredible social skills; however, in the long run 2 things usually happen: people get away from them, since their drama and actions get unbearable, or they cut off people because of devaluation or unacceptable actions that cause deep, deep shame.

In any case, usually BPDs create a very distorted version of reality to avoid processing pain, shame, grief, and, in general, the truth. They even go so far to "compartimentalize" different chapters in their life - it is much more easier (in their mind) to start all over again, instead of facing their demons.

All in all it is a very sad disorder, because it makes behave in horrible ways potentially wonderful people... .