So tired of wading through the family dynamics -- caused by uBPD Mom.

[Our abuse recovery guide]

It's been a tiring and stressful day.  I congratulate you ahead of time if you manage to weave yourself to then end of this.


Family dynamic:

*Mom, age 77 is uBPD and hard to like.

*Dad, age 80 is scared of Mom and OCD, but very sweet and kind and I love him to death, even when he's making me nuts.

*Best way to describe sister is "airhead"

*I am now the only one who can do anything with my Mom.  Sister was enmeshed.  Now at 52, she's finally starting to be independent.  They live next door to each other. 

*I was the scapegoat growing up. Sister was golden.

*Now Dad is the scapegoat.  Due to being mostly out of the picture, I am mostly golden(more like silver)  Enmeshed sister next door is a bit tarnished.



I talked to Mom on the phone yesterday and Mom told me how my sister won't listen or do anything Mom tells her.  (My inner reaction, "good for her, she's finally growing up and making her own decisions."  Outer -- said nothing so as not to poke the bear.)



Today:

I got a phone messages today from my husband and sister while I was at Sunday School that my Dad was in the ER.

My sister's phone message said that he'd been to urgent care and they sent him to the ER.  Symptoms were "stomach pain".  Message that husband got from sister said that they had found "a blockage" and high white count.

My husband thought "no big deal", he's constipated. 

I know this family, and I packed an overnight bag (including my 10 xanax that my MD lets me keep for anxiety attacks) got in the car, and took the 2 hour drive to get there. 

My husband said he was surprised I went because  sister did not seem very concerned.  Well, that's because sister is an airhead.  She's a fine and well-meaning person, she just does not get some things.  And she was repeating what Mom told her. 


Two other things:  Mom thinks EVERYBODY exaggerates their symptoms, except her.  And she says she has a HIGH threshold for pain and everyone else's is low, which is quite the opposite.  She hurts and everyone knows it.  Anyone else hurts and she says that they are being over-dramatic.  In actuality, we all have been trained to hide it from her because we didn't want her criticism.  Now at 55, I still have to remind myself to be honest about my illnesses and symptoms and not hide them.

She often minimizes things unless it's about her in some way, or to her advantage to blow it up into something bigger than it is.   For example, a few years ago, my Dad had a cyst on his spine that pinched a nerve and caused him to become paralyzed until surgery to release that pressure.   She accused him of "putting on" when he was having trouble.  By the time she took him to the Dr., the surgery became an emergency to keep the paralysis from being permanent.  Now he still walks with a bit of a limp. She said he could walk normal if he tried.  The fact is, his "limp" is not noticeable unless you really look for it.  He walks better than most 80-year olds I know.


Dad turned out having a kidney stone.  My Mom said she was surprised because it usually hurts a lot more than he was acting like he was hurting, while in the same breath saying that he has a low pain threshold, contradicting herself.


At my Mom's house after they got home from the hospital, she was saying how it wasn't serious and I didn't have to go.  But I did.

1)  My Dad was 80 years old and had a high white count

2) My family has a history of hiding illnesses to keep people from worrying, which makes me worry more.  ":)on't tell person x about this so they won't worry."

3) My Mom either minimizes or maximizes everything to suit her purpose.  (very BPD trait.) 

4)  She tends to treat him badly.

So I can't trust what I'm being told and he's in ER with high white count, what else am I going to do?

Another fact, my brother-in-law (the sister's husband) is in my city for the weekend, so crashing at our place.  He is the manager of the CT department at the hospital Dad was taken to, so kept in touch with hospital through this.  He said that if HE had been given Dad's exact symptoms -- exact location of pain, etc. , that he would have known that the diagnosis was likely one of a short list of things, the kidney stone being one, but appendecitis being another.  But even he, the medical professional (not a Dr. a CT operator) was not told the whole story.

When Mom gets in one of her bad BPD moods, I seem to be the only one who can sort her out if she can be sorted out.  Surprisingly, she didn't seem so bad today.  After I left, that could have changed.

And with something like this, mother minimizing and hiding, sister not getting it, I can't trust what is going on until I can see firsthand for myself.

I am really tired of dealing with all of that.  I am tired of being the one who has to sort things out.  I do it for my Dad.  If Mom outlives Dad, she may be out of luck where I am concerned.  I know that's cold, but that's how it is.

I am really glad that I live two hours away.  Far enough away to stay out of the fray most of the time, close enough to get there on short notice if needed.  I now am able to lead a somewhat normal life most of the time.  I have worked my way through the shadows through counseling and thinking.  It helps knowing what it is.  I know it is good that I just have episodes to deal with, that it's not my life any more.

I know this isn't well written. It's been a rough day of 4 hours of driving, left here around 10:30am, returned around 7pm.  I just needed somewhere to say this that others could empathize. 

[todayistheday]

It's been a tiring and stressful day.  I congratulate you ahead of time if you manage to weave yourself to then end of this.


Family dynamic:

*Mom, age 77 is uBPD and hard to like.

*Dad, age 80 is scared of Mom and OCD, but very sweet and kind and I love him to death, even when he's making me nuts.

*Best way to describe sister is "airhead"

*I am now the only one who can do anything with my Mom.  Sister was enmeshed.  Now at 52, she's finally starting to be independent.  They live next door to each other. 

*I was the scapegoat growing up. Sister was golden.

*Now Dad is the scapegoat.  Due to being mostly out of the picture, I am mostly golden(more like silver)  Enmeshed sister next door is a bit tarnished.



I talked to Mom on the phone yesterday and Mom told me how my sister won't listen or do anything Mom tells her.  (My inner reaction, "good for her, she's finally growing up and making her own decisions."  Outer -- said nothing so as not to poke the bear.)



Today:

I got a phone messages today from my husband and sister while I was at Sunday School that my Dad was in the ER.

My sister's phone message said that he'd been to urgent care and they sent him to the ER.  Symptoms were "stomach pain".  Message that husband got from sister said that they had found "a blockage" and high white count.

My husband thought "no big deal", he's constipated. 

I know this family, and I packed an overnight bag (including my 10 xanax that my MD lets me keep for anxiety attacks) got in the car, and took the 2 hour drive to get there. 

My husband said he was surprised I went because  sister did not seem very concerned.  Well, that's because sister is an airhead.  She's a fine and well-meaning person, she just does not get some things.  And she was repeating what Mom told her. 


Two other things:  Mom thinks EVERYBODY exaggerates their symptoms, except her.  And she says she has a HIGH threshold for pain and everyone else's is low, which is quite the opposite.  She hurts and everyone knows it.  Anyone else hurts and she says that they are being over-dramatic.  In actuality, we all have been trained to hide it from her because we didn't want her criticism.  Now at 55, I still have to remind myself to be honest about my illnesses and symptoms and not hide them.

She often minimizes things unless it's about her in some way, or to her advantage to blow it up into something bigger than it is.   For example, a few years ago, my Dad had a cyst on his spine that pinched a nerve and caused him to become paralyzed until surgery to release that pressure.   She accused him of "putting on" when he was having trouble.  By the time she took him to the Dr., the surgery became an emergency to keep the paralysis from being permanent.  Now he still walks with a bit of a limp. She said he could walk normal if he tried.  The fact is, his "limp" is not noticeable unless you really look for it.  He walks better than most 80-year olds I know.


Dad turned out having a kidney stone.  My Mom said she was surprised because it usually hurts a lot more than he was acting like he was hurting, while in the same breath saying that he has a low pain threshold, contradicting herself.


At my Mom's house after they got home from the hospital, she was saying how it wasn't serious and I didn't have to go.  But I did.

1)  My Dad was 80 years old and had a high white count

2) My family has a history of hiding illnesses to keep people from worrying, which makes me worry more.  ":)on't tell person x about this so they won't worry."

3) My Mom either minimizes or maximizes everything to suit her purpose.  (very BPD trait.) 

4)  She tends to treat him badly.

So I can't trust what I'm being told and he's in ER with high white count, what else am I going to do?

Another fact, my brother-in-law (the sister's husband) is in my city for the weekend, so crashing at our place.  He is the manager of the CT department at the hospital Dad was taken to, so kept in touch with hospital through this.  He said that if HE had been given Dad's exact symptoms -- exact location of pain, etc. , that he would have known that the diagnosis was likely one of a short list of things, the kidney stone being one, but appendecitis being another.  But even he, the medical professional (not a Dr. a CT operator) was not told the whole story.

When Mom gets in one of her bad BPD moods, I seem to be the only one who can sort her out if she can be sorted out.  Surprisingly, she didn't seem so bad today.  After I left, that could have changed.

And with something like this, mother minimizing and hiding, sister not getting it, I can't trust what is going on until I can see firsthand for myself.

I am really tired of dealing with all of that.  I am tired of being the one who has to sort things out.  I do it for my Dad.  If Mom outlives Dad, she may be out of luck where I am concerned.  I know that's cold, but that's how it is.

I am really glad that I live two hours away.  Far enough away to stay out of the fray most of the time, close enough to get there on short notice if needed.  I now am able to lead a somewhat normal life most of the time.  I have worked my way through the shadows through counseling and thinking.  It helps knowing what it is.  I know it is good that I just have episodes to deal with, that it's not my life any more.

I know this isn't well written. It's been a rough day of 4 hours of driving, left here around 10:30am, returned around 7pm.  I just needed somewhere to say this that others could empathize. 

[Turkish]

While I agree with you going (I would have), what do you think would have happened if you hadn't gone?

[todayistheday]

While I agree with you going (I would have), what do you think would have happened if you hadn't gone?

Today in this case it would have been OK. 

About 15 years ago, when it ended up being his gall bladder, I did not go until later and that was OK.

My concern now is his age 80, and that I can't trust the information that I am getting, I wanted to be close by.  If it had been something more serious, I would have wanted to be with Dad. 

I am happy to be home.  I wish my Dad wasn't in that mess.  But I can't do anything about it.  So I live my life away from all of it.

[Turkish]

It sounds like your dad won't advocate for himself. Have you talked to him about it, or is he so used to being under her thumb that he doesn't see it (or is afraid)?

[Notwendy]

I waded through some similar dynamics as my father aged and eventually passed away. Like you, I am the black child, eventually went less so, so long as I was compliant and co-dependent. Yet once I established some boundaries was painted blacker than ever.

I am not emotionally attached to BPD mom but adored my father and would have wanted to be there with him if he had a serious medical condition- and I was for a while. I would jump at any news that he was in a bad situation. I also felt he was not in good hands with BPD mom as she would also not recognize when he was really sick- or on the other hand, decide he needed something when he did not.

I was not aware of the drama triangle and the idea that being the sensible, helping one ( RESCUER) is as much a part of the dysfunctional dynamics as any other of the roles ( Persecutor, Victim) and the eventual difficulty this triangle led to. I have a lot of " if only I knew then what I know now" lessons, but I could only do what I knew to do at the time.

One aspect I was not well aware of was my father's role in these dynamics and the extremely strong bond between him and my mother- that played into this too. He was my mother's rescuer, she was victim. The bond between them was him rescuing her from any perceived threat. ( persecutor). Having a common "enemy" seemed to draw them closer- that "enemy" being anyone- a doctor, a nurse, a friend who they painted black, and yes, their own children if we tried to stick up for him with her since he would not stick up for himself and when he was sick, he could not.

When my father was ill, this changed the dynamics. We kids jumped in to "help". Suddenly he was the recipient of the care and concern and this triggered mom which would lead to dad getting angry at us.

I wish I could say I was strong enough to have been there for dad all the times that he needed help, but I wasn't and could not continue to be the focus of my parents' anger. I went up to help when he had surgery. He was delighted. However, he didn't need the help. In the hospital, he was taken care of. It was mom, home alone that worried him ,and for over a week, I became the subject of her abuse while taking complete care of the house, the cooking, the driving her around. I couldn't handle it. I began to set boundaries. Mom got angry at me, and painted me black to dad.

Reflecting on my childhood, I could come to a place to forgive her because she is sick. I could forgive my father for not standing up for me to her, because, I know I am OK. What was harder was seeing him not stand up for himself, and being powerless to help him, because when I did, I became mother's "persecutor" and then he would be angry at me. But the bond between them in this dynamic was stronger than any other relationship.

Help your father as much as you feel you can and be with him, if not for anyone but for you. I do understand that at 80, a medical event can be serious. Help him if you are able to. However, learn about the triangle and the dynamics as much as you can, so you won't take it personally. Know also that you can only do the best you can with what you know. You may have some " if I only knew then" thoughts, but perhaps with knowledge, less of them.

As crazy as it is, he is your Daddy, whatever happens. The dynamics are hard, but they are due to their own issues, not yours.

[todayistheday]

It sounds like your dad won't advocate for himself. Have you talked to him about it, or is he so used to being under her thumb that he doesn't see it (or is afraid)?

He is afraid.

I have talked to him.  It was about 10 years ago when with the help of a therapist I figured out what was going on with Mom.  It was when she was raging  on him.

As the years go by, she gets worse and he gets more complacent.  They have been together since the late 1950s, so the patterns would be heard to break.

He had planned to leave her in the early 1980s after my younger sister graduated from high school.  He told both of us he was leaving.  He didn't say much, just that he might go. 

My sister holds little sympathy for him because he did not get out when he had the chance.  He made a bad decision 35 years ago.  Now at age 80, him getting out would be bad. 

I don't know why he changed his mind, he never told me. But they have had separate rooms and spent much of their time apart since then. Now that I know what I know about BPD and know what she was like when I lived with them, I suspect that she may have threatened suicide?  She never directly threatened it in my presence.  What she did do was often say "I wish I was dead" when she didn't like the way that things were going.  I haven't asked why he changed his mind. 

Last year when I was trying to discuss her with Dad, he actually said that he had made a commitment to her and he was going to keep that commitment.  That is a very honorable thing, but he committed himself to a life of unhappiness.  He does get out and do some things for himself.   Myheart does ache for him.  He is complex.  He can make me nuts, but I love him to death.  He is "nuts" in a different way from Mom.  He's quirky, but I have never seen him be anything but kind to others. 

[todayistheday]

I waded through some similar dynamics as my father aged and eventually passed away. Like you, I am the black child, eventually went less so, so long as I was compliant and co-dependent. Yet once I established some boundaries was painted blacker than ever. ... .

As crazy as it is, he is your Daddy, whatever happens. The dynamics are hard, but they are due to their own issues, not yours.

Thanks notwendy, you totally get it.  My Dad was my protector when I was the scapegoated child.  Whenever he went out and invited me, I was right there with him.  I preferred being with someone who let me hang out over being with someone I was afraid of.  :)ue to being around him all the time, I picked up his interests and became a bit of a tomboy.  I got an engineering degree when I went to college.

I was upset when Mom and Sis minimized Dad's symptoms until diagnosis.  I have seen too many older people just "fall over" on what seemed to be small.  My next door neighbor had a routine surgery and got an infection she never got over.  And many others.   I don't want to not go to my Dad when he may need me.  I'd much rather go to him for something that's no big deal.

Yes, he's ":)addy", he protected me when I was a child.  Not 100% but when he could.  He influenced my interests and career choice and made me who I am.  When he's making me nuts, I still remember all that and it's ok.

[Notwendy]

I am glad you are able to be there for your dad. I also looked to my father as a role model ( given the choice of him or my mother, I chose to role model him). Being educated in a similar field was a bond between us. But the bond he had with my mother was something bigger, and her will prevailed.

My parents had a similar history. She got worse, he got more complacent. On rare occasion he would say he was leaving. By the time we were teens, we would have encouraged him to do so. He said he wouldn't because of us kids, but then, we grew up and left home, and he stayed. My mother has also threatened suicide. I think this is a reason for the complacency, but also, co-dependency played a part. I saw my mother as the disordered one, as I didn't understand co-dependency at the time.

I know it is important to you to be there for your father. My mother's responses to his illness were paradoxical too. My father did a lot of the caretaking- drove her places, went to the grocery store. When he was not able to do these things she would act as if he was doing this on purpose. In the drama triangle, mom's preferred role was victim. None of the roles are more or less dysfunctional but the payoff for "victim" is not being responsible- nothing was her fault. But when dad was ill, there was another "victim" - his illness was not his fault- and our attention to him changed the dynamics.

In empathy to my mother, if one has a fear of abandonment, illness in a spouse would trigger that. Aging and illness are stresses in any family, and dysfunctional families would be stressed. Also, the roles on the triangle are in a way, a way to make the relationship more stable. A rescuer needs someone to rescue, a victim needs someone to be a rescuer. Two victims, or two rescuers don't quite pair up the same way.

The dynamics showed up in other ways. If I disagreed with mom, or had boundaries, I became the perpetrator and dad "rescued" her from me. It was emotionally hard to have dad get angry at me.  I hope this doesn't happen to you, but if it does, know that it is the issues between your parents, not you. I think it would help to understand how the drama triangle works in these relationships.

[todayistheday]

Notwendy, you SO get where I am coming from.  Thanks for helping me to feel that my reactions to this are not incorrect.  I always expect people to tell me to back off, it's his problem, etc.  

It's unfair that I get put into the triangle.  Or right in the center of a straight line between them.  There have been several times that my sister has called me about things going on there for me to go mediate.  It's so unfair to have to mediate between your parents.  I only do it for my Dad.

My sister, who I considered to be enmeshed and lives next door rarely goes to their house when I am not there.  When I was at their house for 2 weeks after my Mom had a knee replacement, sister didn't come over but a couple times for a few minutes.  When I popped over to sister's house to chat, sister said "I don't know how you do it."  Again, I do it for Dad.

Unless my nephews are affected, uBPD Mom will not be able to count on me if she outlives Dad the time comes that it's only her.

The difference between Dad's dysfunction and Mom's?    Mom is mean and hurtful to people. Dad is just eccentric; he is totally kind and wouldn't hurt a flea.

[rebl.brown]

Thanks to todayistheday and wendy for this discussion. I am so worn out by my parent's abuse (they are about the same age as yours, today, that personally, I can't wait for it to be over. I wonder if I will really feel that way when they actually do die? I'm no contact with the mother and distant with Father but it continues to be really really hard with him. Wendy, your thoughts on the dynamics of this dysfunction were very helpful. I wish I could get past my anger and hatred. Still working on it.

[Notwendy]

It is unfair to be put in the triangle, but to not be takes some work. It's almost instinct to get into the triangle because, for me, it is the way my family interacts and I have been a part of that family for so long, I didn't know there was any different way to interact with them.

It is really hard to not take on the role of "rescuer" with an ailing ( and favored) parent. In many situations it is a "normal" role of grown children to help with their aging parents. I was willing to do this for my father- I wanted to do it. But when I did it, not being aware of the dynamics, it was stepping right into the drama, and very difficult. One reason was that I also had co-dependent tendencies and was easily manipulated. I also had a lot of fear of my fathers' anger. If my mother was angry at me, she would paint me black to my father and then my father would step in as "rescuer" too and get angry at me.

My parents' roles in this triangle were very strongly established. Mom is victim. Dad is rescuer. Our roles as kids were to be supporting rescuers- Dad would enlist us to "make mother happy- do her bidding" . This was our way of getting dad's approval and we all have co-dependent- people pleasing tendencies. Makes sense as this was how we felt we had to get any positive attention as kids.

The difference between Dad's dysfunction and Mom's?    Mom is mean and hurtful to people. Dad is just eccentric; he is totally kind and wouldn't hurt a flea.

I would say the same about my father. I adored my father - would have done all I could do for him and I did at first, but the shift of attention to his needs and not mom's shook up the family dynamics. There were times we naively stepped in to protect dad and this upset my mother- which made dad mad at me.  I was terrified of his potential to snap and rage at me. I tried very hard to repair the relationship but I could not change his mind. By the time he died, I was basically disowned- but I don't know if this was his idea or my mothers.

I hope your situation is different. I just wish I understood the dynamics of the drama triangle better so that I would have been less reactive and not taken it personally. But we only know what we know at the time.

I do get you wanting to be there for your father. I believe that acts of love do matter, no matter how they are received.

But we need to include ourselves in that love, and not allow others to abuse us. Rebl.brown, I understand your role as well. I set boundaries on my parents and it was very sad and difficult. The anger and hatred is a lot to cope with, but we can only do the best we can at the time. It helped me to have counseling as well as 12 step co-dependency/ACOA groups. The ACOA Red Book describes the childhood/adult child issues well. I can say it gets better and the work is worth the effort. It didn't change my mother, but it helped me. We feel what we feel. Sure, I wish I had more warm feelings towards my mother, but it is what it is. Don't judge yourself but use how you feel to work on gaining your own emotional skills.