What if you don't know if it's BPD ? How do you accept that it is?

[Bpdruinmylife]

I had a very intense connection with her. She had wanted a divorce from her husband and I think I was the transition towards her freedom. I didn't agree to move in with her right away. She crossed several lines, threatened suicide, threatened to expose me to my ex, I always felt like she was trying to control me, she always blamed something else for anything that she did which was not good, she also would have these sudden dark moments with me, where the energy in the room would just die, and her emotions seemed to rule her so much.

we have managed to distance ourselves, and in a weird way have grown even closer, w/o sex, w/o the relationship we have talked through a lot of issues, almost like the relationship got in the way of us .

now she is talking about marriage, how she is devoted to me, it's so so difficult. i have not fallen back into the relationship

am i deluding myself ? how do you really know if it is BPD. i'm getting fuzzy b/c she is being so great/understanding/real/ ... .i try to keep in mind all the ___ she did and i refer to it to keep me balanced. but it's difficult to know.

i guess my question is ? what do you do to find out if it was BPD ? is there a way to figure it out? she did do the suicide thing, and blackmailed me with her power, and does act like a child emotionally, she is also bi-sexual, i have another thread with examples, so it all does lead to BPD ... .

at same time she says she wants just one, she says she is devoted to me, ugh... .i don't really trust her impulsive behavior at all ... but then it's not fair to give someone a chance ... what do you do to know ?

help thanks

[Mutt]

Hi Bpdruinmylife,



I think that's a good question, my ex wife is not undiagnosed, she likely has co-morbidity and I may never really find out what types of mental illnesses that she suffers from. I arrived here after the break-up and was with her for several years. I didn't Google her symptoms, I didn't know what mental illness is like with a loved one. I had started to think that the relationship was abusive only after she had accused me of being abusive but I thought that happened to other people and not myself. I lurked for about a week and was reading experiences from other members that was the same thing that I had gone through. I had thought that I was going through something that nobody else had gone through, there was also a part of me that didn't want to know what the truth was. That said.

Many people that suffer from mental illness are not diagnosed and many that are diagnosed don't believe that they have a mental illness. Some people may not have the ability to ask for help and may not have enough awareness, this is their reality, it's very real to that person and they may not know the difference. What we can look at are traits and what types of behaviors are acceptable to us.

You mention that your ex is like a child emotionally, I can relate with that, I recall thinking that my ex acted like a 12 year old sometimes. I look at emotional maturity or emotional immaturity with exBPDw. I'm emotionally mature and I have different values than my exBPDw, it doesn't mean that I'm better but I want different things in a relationship that I can't find with her. I outgrew her. She's can be condescending, dramatic and she sees things as either all good or all bad. The periods where she viewed me as person that was all bad become longer and her anger became too much for me, it's pain that I don't want to experience again. I look at behaviors, compatibility and not diagnosis. Are you asking yourself if it's not a serious mental illness, that maybe I'll stay?

[Bpdruinmylife]

Thank you for your reply, it really helps to have a conversation with someone who relates, as I really have nobody to talk to.

If I knew she wasn't BPD, then yes I would be with her. I have refused to go back to her as a lover. To let her go, through that process we have been able to grow closer, it is strange, but somehow we just manage to grow closer even through all the craziness. There are serious issues that have happened that I'm having a hard time forgetting. The problem is I forgive her, but I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who has acted the way she has acted, I'd be a fool. At same time, she has taken responsibility and at least as far as I know, has leveled off to find a bit of a balance. We are just actually talking on phone and not seeing each other. I need to decide to either continue or not, my heart has fallen for her, but I have never gone back to her after she has crosssed some pretty intense boundries. Who in their right mind would want to be with someone who, may have faked a miscarriage, threatens suicide, uses control and manipulation, blackmails in a really lame way, stalks, ... as i write this i remind myself ... no way ... BUT at same time each of these behaviors has disappeared ... .it's almost like she didn't realize she was doing them ... .when we first met and she was stalking me ... obsessive ... i finally told her you are obsessed and stalking me ... .she snapped out of it and said she was and she didn't even realize it ... and boom she stopped ... it's so weird... eventually when we can discuss her behavior she'll come to her own understanding of why it was wrong to me ... .and she will respect that ... .i don't think it ever is wrong to her ... .i kinda think she can't actually understand that her behavior was wrong ... .she really really rationalizes things to herself ... .i don't know man ... .she is a dream ... but she is broken ... .i broke myself by dealing with it ... and we have built this beautiful friendship ... .the black and white thing is a little confusing ... b/c i have pushed her away so many times and she keeps coming back ... and even now when we are friends she appreciates just being able to call me and talk about life that she is going through ... .like normal people might ... .but we aren't a couple ... so there is a gray there right ?   god i wish i had a really good shrink! to deal with this ... .at same time i'm very very very aware of a possible CON game ... right that is what these people will do to survive... .and i don't have anger towards her... i have held my ground ... it's my responsibility to not let someone cross boundries... .ugh... .

i hope someone can help me a bit ... .any advice would be helpful

[Silveron]

She doesn't or will she ever see any Grey.  It's black and white.  She is playing the game by your terms (so you think) so she can achieve her end result.  You have to realize to her, that her feelings are reality.  They aren't emotionally mature enough to handle the complexities of arrangements like what you are going through.  It's why a lot of marriages where a spouse is BPD doesn't work.  Been married to mine for almost 12 years and it's mind boggling on the things they can do to your head.

[Mutt]

she really really rationalizes things to herself ... .i don't know man ... .she is a dream ... but she is broken ... .i broke myself by dealing with it ... and we have built this beautiful friendship ... .the black and white thing is a little confusing ...

My ex and my dad both display traits of mental illness. I was angry at both, angrier at my dad for much longer than my ex wife. I processed the pain of the break-up and found answers with the experience I had her and learned a lot about the relationship with my dad and let go of hurt caused by both. They are who they are. They're not self aware and aware of how they interact with and impact others. I had to learn how to not take their behaviors personally.

She is who she. Accept her for who she is and the reality that she may not change - emotional arrested development. Learn as much as you can about BPD behaviors, it'll start to make sense, become indifferent to the behaviors, de-personalize it.

[Bpdruinmylife]

" they aren't emotionally secure enough to handle the arrangements ... ."   

we had a final day together which ended up beautifully, since then she has texted me slowly telling me she is devoted to me now ... .that we are going through this separation together ... .it's a little confusing ... .i think she might believe we are working on getting back together ? ... .it's all so confusing ... .she won't let me go ... .but she will let me go ... .

the last day we were together ... .we were going to just say goodbye ... .as she was showing me some pics ... someone on tinder texted her ... .when i was holding the phone ... .my emotions got me really upset ... but i held it together enough just to day i understood and to just give me a moment to catch my breath ... .she started to get really upset ... .blame me, and she is right i did tell her to find someone else better for her ... .but she also said she couldn't do it ... .she is devoted to me ... she only wants me ... .? so confusing ... .  technically we are broken up ... we aren't planning to see each other ... .but she is hopeful we find each other again ... when we are both ready ... .she is saying she is devoted to me ... which i didn't ask her for ... .i have pushed her away to achieve her own independence so much yet i do love her and pushing her away kills me ... .even now ... do i need to push her away even if we are just friends ? ... .the first time in a long time she has no power over me and we are communicating well ... .

but i understand what you are saying ... .sometimes i think she might just be being patient waiting for me to accept her back or something ... .and honestly i don't know what i want personally but i have been clear to her that i can't be with her ... .

... all i know is i have to get out of the stress ... it's ruining my professional life and everything else ... .what to do?

you have been married for 12 years you must be a saint !

i wish i could find another person on here from los angeles and we could meet ... .to just talk... .

[Bpdruinmylife]

she was having an affair with a married man before she met me ... .although she broke it off once his wife got pregnant again ... .she seems really active to be with someone ... she's never been alone her entire life ... from one person to the next ... .god i know what all the signs are pointing towards ... .it's horrible ... .i believe she is working hard to balance herself ... .but if i had to choose i'd say yes she has BPD ... and then i'm not really in a place to take that on ... i've been in a difficult relationship before ... .i have experience with it ... .it's nothing personal in a way but already this has sunk a lot of my life ... .run, run far away, ... .i suppose ?

[Mutt]

I understand, the push / pull behavior and impulsive behavior from a pwBPD can feel like crazy making behavior to the non disordered partner. We can't tell you what choice to make, you don't need to rush, you can take things slowly. You can take a look at the lessons on the improving board, lesson #2 and understanding our roles in a r/s with a pwBPD.https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.0  There are a lot of tools that will help improve your relationship with a pwBPD and not just with a pwBPD but all relationships. I hope that helps.

[formflier]

I used to be enamored with the idea of getting an official diagnosis of my wife "so I would know" exactly what was going on with her.  The more I learned from this site, I came to realize that a diagnosis is a very handy thing for appropriate mental health care providers.  But for me, or anyone in a r/, it is likely better to focus on the behaviors they are presenting.

Respond with healthy tools and responses to what they actually do.

Mutt's advice is right on target.  They are who they are and they will do what they will do.

FF

[Verbena]

I don't think it really matters if it's BPD or not.  You know that there are serious issues, and you've seen a ton of red flags.

I am in the process of divorcing my husband of almost 34 years.  He may be BPD, or not.  I didn't see the red flags before I married him because he hid his issues.  They surfaced almost immediately after the wedding and only got worse over time.

Read your original post and try to imagine a friend wrote it.  What would you tell them to do? 

My gut tells me that if you proceed with this relationship--whether you ever know if it's BPD or not--you are in for a world of hurt. 

[Bpdruinmylife]

To the BPD family,

especially to those who responded to me, in particular the woman who responded just above this response.

the red flags, of suicide threats, rages late at night on phone saying terrible things, the mood swings, the desperate cmon move in cmon move in, the few very serious threats, among other things, were so confusing that i just thought maybe it was me or the situation (as she blamed it). since the last serious threats, i pulled back and well she has just been the calmest most amazing person, patient, understanding, sweet, honest and open about everything.

i do love her deeply, she cracked me open, and we have shared things together that are the most intimate parts of ourselves, we haven't even been sexual in several weeks, but we have grown so close through sharing ourselves. i love this person.

but... .w/o knowing for sure who she is, i have made myself at my weakest moments focus on a memory of a very troubling even, each time i focused on it, that helped me push away and leave before i completely fell into her arms.

because of your perspectives, i have held strong, i honestly can say, that w/o this site, i would have been in much much worse state. we have reached a point where she is accepting that i'm scared of her and won't just come back. i want to, god do i want to so badly. there are parts that are my dream. if i think too much i change my mind.

i honestly don't know if she actually is BPD, she is definelty narssistic (sp), so she might be narssists BPD or something of those traits.

i have held strong and not gone back into the relationship. it has been so difficult but with your words and perspectives, please know that you helped me so much, thank you. it sucks to say thank you from helping me stay away from someone i love but there it is. a cruel joke in a lot of ways.

for anyone out there trying to navigate this, don't jump in right away, time will reveal more and more if the person demonstrates the traits, be loving and patient but do not move in, or marry, (she told me she wanted us to get married recently, i have never been married and that is my dream, it is soo difficult). and i still don't know for sure if this is the right decision but i focused on the actual events, the facts, not my feelings. i will fall apart when i get home, for days, but it's safe there. again i don't know for sure so i just focused on the behavior. and through it all i love her dearly, and see her working so hard to be good, and she has grown so much, we have together, but from your stories i realize it would be extremely difficult... .and yes i might be able to handle it ... .

i put my faith in your information, and it helped me a lot. we may never know what would happen ... .? maybe someday i'll go back if it was all just stress/misunderstanding/craziness // but for now i'm pretty sure i'm not going to do it.

if anyone out there is wondering about their partner ... .don't take it lightly ... it messes with you soo much ... .and don't think you don't love them, i think you can, i do ... .but what is best for your life might be to not be in that relationship ... .

it's so sad, and i'm super depressed, so confused, and my career has suffered tremendously, but i think i left for good. thank you thank you.

your replies were like gifts! very helpful

[Cat Familiar]

You sound very wise and thoughtful about considering the longterm prospects of a relationship with a person who has a mental illness. So many people rush in and with magical thinking, presume they have the will to change someone else into their healthiest potential self, then endure a miserable quality of life for years as the subject of their remodeling project continues to be who they are, rather than who they ought to be.

It's a package deal and if there are redeeming qualities to the package, that can overshadow some of the quirks, then it's doable. Otherwise it's a pipe dream.

[Bpdruinmylife]

what is it that we need, that BPD traits give us, somehow maybe like a drug, heroin.

i struggle with this a lot. they fill the deepest most painful holes inside, that i spent a lifetime working to push down and deal. that her power.

she appears as light, joy, beauty, power, sexuality, acceptance, acknowledgement.

as we change our relationship, i'm out of the chaos, for the moment, we have talked openly and honestly. she has revealed how she found her value in her sexuality with me. that she continues to struggle to find value in herself. a lifetime of bad relationships has pushed her into total confusion about relationships. she needs a man in her life, or even a woman. she is not a monster, she is high functioning. she has waited for me patiently to come back to her (well a week) and falls back into terror/insecurity/fear ... .the anger is just a manifestation of the fear of being alone. somehow solve that fear and maybe the BPD quiets down?

it seems the medical/psychological community has completely failed. kinda like the educational system. makes me wonder, the solution for this illness... .what is it? something simple, something right in front of our faces? mental illness, brain damage, ptsd, ... .she says she was sexually abused when she was young, spent time in hospital for suicide attempt, it's all so confusing, part real, part exaggeration, but all of it is just an attempt to survive pain

i'm so conflicted, what if i'm wrong ? i just left a the dream of a lifetime. the ultimate dream is really an illusion ? or i think maybe part illusion, part real. it's so hard to think about it all being not real. there must be degrees of manipulation?

they are black and white ... .that doesn't mean though that we have to see them as the same ... .like children maybe they are, impulsive, it's so hard being the parent ... .

[Cat Familiar]

what is it that we need, that BPD traits give us, somehow maybe like a drug, heroin.

This is a very insightful question and I think the answer for many of us would be the same. We want to be loved. Often we felt unloved and insecure as children and frequently one of our parents had a personality disorder that kept them from being nurturing to us.

The stories are so common. We meet our partner who shows us so much appreciation, validation, intimacy and love in the beginning, and we think we've met our perfect match. Later, the borderline traits start showing up and we're aghast. What happened to that wonderful person we fell in love with?