Question about the lies

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello everyone

Quick question

Did your BPD lie and do they lie to everyone universally?

If they do lie to everyone then it may not be a choice

If they only lie to a select few, then lying is deliberate.

I see a lot of excuses in these rooms for BPD behaviour and I understand and like us nons, we all display behaviours that are not healthy such as inappropriate anger or jealousy just as examples.

But the lying? This is what prevented me from trusting my exgf and isn't trust the very foundation on which a healthy relationship be established? It seems we just lusted, romanced, played then tried to build on this and of course the house collapsed.

From what I read about pwBPD they first love bomb us then build on this?

Any comments? Thank you.

[JerryRG]

Hello everyone

Quick question

Did your BPD lie and do they lie to everyone universally?

If they do lie to everyone then it may not be a choice

If they only lie to a select few, then lying is deliberate.

I see a lot of excuses in these rooms for BPD behaviour and I understand and like us nons, we all display behaviours that are not healthy such as inappropriate anger or jealousy just as examples.

But the lying? This is what prevented me from trusting my exgf and isn't trust the very foundation on which a healthy relationship be established? It seems we just lusted, romanced, played then tried to build on this and of course the house collapsed.

From what I read about pwBPD they first love bomb us then build on this?

Any comments? Thank you.

[woundedPhoenix]

There are two sorts of lies:

Coloring the truth and omitting the darker details about her past have been going on since day one. I just didn't have a good reference then to really see this, but what she told me and what happened is something seriously different there.

Rightout lies have only surfaced once devaluation kicked in full force. She could be doing something right in front of my eyes and deny it actually happened, let alone the things that happened behind my back.

I think the more unstable they get, the less control they have over the lies.

And lies are a form of avoidance.

[StayStrongNow]

I agree with WoundedPhoenix, that's how it was / is with my stbxBPDw so I will go into what I have observed and learned about perhaps is the why my stbxBPDw lies.

Her fear of abandonment is so strong she will use Projection in addition to outright lies to make me look evil and her like a victim. My stbxBPDw mugshots and blogs about her arrests are all over the Internet but yet in defending her 7 charges from 3 arrests in 14 months have been she has been beaten by me during our 10 year marriage, a complete and total lie.

She is starting new relationships now and trying to strengthen her old ones by lying about me and playing the victim meanwhile making her look as angelic as can be. She has a new boyfriend (rescuer) and has started a new cycle with him just as the article at this site describes:

How A Borderline Relationships Evolves
 
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

Emotionally she cannot handle abandonment and she acts out when she realizes this and loses control, her running to alcohol, her 2 public intoxication charges as evidence, her abuse of both Rx and non Rx, and DV are all things she blacks out about, does not remember and spins it with her friends and family that she cannot take any blame it is all my fault and will tell lies about it all day and night.

Look up Compulsive Lying and it will take you right back to BPD. The lies, the constant of me hearing "I don't remember" from her the ice coldness from her, IMO seems to makes this disease the most damaging to the mind, heart and soul of the NON.

[Icanteven]

Why does anyone lie?  To wit:

1) Fear
2) Guilt
3) Shame
4) Manipulation
5) To maintain one's false self

I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the top 5 I can think of.  And, wouldn'tyaknowit, all five of those fall into Cluster B PDs.

TL:)R:
"You sit on a throne of lies"

[JerryRG]

Thanks everyone,

Yes indeed my exgf told her new bf I raped her when we first started hanging out, strange thing is she begged me to buy her an engagement ring just 2 months after I allegedly attacked her.

So let me examine this in logical terms:

1. She evidently don't care if she's married to a rapest.

2. It never happend. (and no it did not)

3. Her bf is oveoulsy an idiot to believe her lies. (He's next to receive the disgaurd and alligations)

Sorry honey (victim) your logic is irrational and this squares with your Cluster B PD in the most demonstrative and convincing way. Classic symptoms of BPD.

Strange phenomenon BPD? And deadly serious

[Pretty Woman]

I truly have no idea what was real and what was a lie. I think what I was experiencing was "real". Her reality however changes depending on her immediate attachment.

My ex told me horrible stories that makes Days of our Lives look tame. Her father was abusive, she was raped several times (by exes). She was in a poly relationship with a couple. She was "dating" the wife... .eventually she ended up with the husband who then divorced his wife... .but she was gay and couldn't see staying with him.
she's been stalked by exes... .married to a man, once who tried to kill himself (I can see why) and ran off to Hawaii for three months to get away from her. She got pregnant by a married man and then showed up at his home to confront his then wife. The wife left him and then she left him and gave the baby up for adoption.

The only thing I really know is how crappy I was treated and that I tolerated it. She tends to rotate the same two exes and has gone back to them many times over a 10yr period sometimes not speaking to them for several years.

The only truth I know is that I will not be a part of her future rotation and what has happened in the past isn't really relevant to me anymore.
 

[JerryRG]

Thanks Pretty Woman

I remember my exgf saying early on in our relationship she wanted to visit a guy in Colorado and I asked why and she said he was an old friend. She then said this man had raped her? Red Flag?

And my exgf has been raped 9 times by 9 different men, not sure where I fit in there. I'm thinking I'm number 5 or 6.

Crazy

The biggest help for me is to hear others experiences and remember mine so I don't forget and deny and allow my exgf back in my head. She's a mind bender.

[Pretty Woman]

Jerry,
   I don't know where you are in your recovery... .I hope what I am about to say doesn't put you on defense... .I know it did to me when I was in the depths of this relationship.

If you really read what I last posted and then read your response... .
why the HECK did we stay with these people? Healthy, whole people would have run. That's the hardest thing to understand. We are not bad but we are wounded. We are looking for validation from someone who will NEVER give us that.

It really is about finding that in ourselves. We struggle with the who, what and why rather than the HOW. How are we going to love ourselves enough that we can let go of all the garbage in our past relationships?

I wish I had the answer. Time has helped as well as NC but I still ruminate and resent my replacement.

How do we get healthy enough that none of this matters?

[JerryRG]

I share custody of a 2 year old boy so nc isn't an option though I dream one day it can be. The funny thing is I sought out help to understand my exgf because I was lost and ill equipped and started with Alanon due to her drug addictions. I learned immediately that I was "playing god" trying to fix her and that took time to accept because I know I'm not god, just codependent and that we know began in my childhood.

Through Alanon I learned many helpful skills and that was a life saver. My sponser realized I had more deeper issues that needed priority for my recovery. My alcoholism, I quit drinking years ago but still very much under the influence of distructive behaviours and thinking patterns. Once in AA I became well and yet still abandoned my sponsors advice and repeatedly went back into a relationship with my exgf.

I would back slide into anxiety and depression and crawl back into the meetings until well enough to engage the beast. Then back to the r/s and crash, back to AA.

My relationship was a clear addiction and it took a while to finally come to this conclusion for myself.

Once healthy enough and reading about people's experiences here and going lc with the exgf I gained enough insight and strength to tell her "no more"

She found a rescuer about a week after I dumped her and they are engaged. Same game, different player.

I'm never going back to her, I too resent her and her new bf but the reality is she's already had serious r/s issues and he's beat her. I'm in the process of gaining a ro on the bf to keep my son from him.

Days of our Lives has nothing compared to this, the writers need find some BPD relationship material, but I'm sure no one would believe it.

[FallBack!Monster]

I truly have no idea what was real and what was a lie. I think what I was experiencing was "real". Her reality however changes depending on her immediate attachment.

My ex told me horrible stories that makes Days of our Lives look tame. Her father was abusive, she was raped several times (by exes). She was in a poly relationship with a couple. She was "dating" the wife... .eventually she ended up with the husband who then divorced his wife... .but she was gay and couldn't see staying with him.
she's been stalked by exes... .married to a man, once who tried to kill himself (I can see why) and ran off to Hawaii for three months to get away from her. She got pregnant by a married man and then showed up at his home to confront his then wife. The wife left him and then she left him and gave the baby up for adoption.

The only thing I really know is how crappy I was treated and that I tolerated it. She tends to rotate the same two exes and has gone back to them many times over a 10yr period sometimes not speaking to them for several years.

The only truth I know is that I will not be a part of her future rotation and what has happened in the past isn't really relevant to me anymore.
 

What I felt for... .
Her mother was an abusive drug addict who died of cancer.  I heard she committed ... .(but that she won't tell).

Her father was a serial cheater ( by her description) but later she described him as a good, hardworking, family man.

She was rapped by a man who is related to her (wouldn't say who exactly), but she told me his name... .He's her friend on fb.

Exbf cheated on her a billion times but they are best friends and have a special connection.

Exbf who sounds not so much like an ex, but a married man who she was having an affair with, who also sounds like he was using her for special sexual favor, with whom she said she had a steady 15 year relationship with  .  She dumps him once he's divorced... .but still is friend with his son, which she uses to get money from his dad... .THAT WAS A MOUTHFUL. 

exHusband, poor thing... .is all I have to say about him.

God only knows who else is there... .but those are the stories I felt soo soft for her for, and with time they all changed a bit.

What never changed was the fact that she was victimized.  I'm sure I wronged her too.

She's such a sweet person whose disorder cause her to destroy peoples lives.

YEAH!

[RighteousAnger]

I share custody of a 2 year old boy so nc isn't an option though I dream one day it can be. The funny thing is I sought out help to understand my exgf because I was lost and ill equipped and started with Alanon due to her drug addictions. I learned immediately that I was "playing god" trying to fix her and that took time to accept because I know I'm not god, just codependent and that we know began in my childhood.

Through Alanon I learned many helpful skills and that was a life saver. My sponser realized I had more deeper issues that needed priority for my recovery. My alcoholism, I quit drinking years ago but still very much under the influence of distructive behaviours and thinking patterns. Once in AA I became well and yet still abandoned my sponsors advice and repeatedly went back into a relationship with my exgf.

I would back slide into anxiety and depression and crawl back into the meetings until well enough to engage the beast. Then back to the r/s and crash, back to AA.

My relationship was a clear addiction and it took a while to finally come to this conclusion for myself.

Once healthy enough and reading about people's experiences here and going lc with the exgf I gained enough insight and strength to tell her "no more"

She found a rescuer about a week after I dumped her and they are engaged. Same game, different player.

I'm never going back to her, I too resent her and her new bf but the reality is she's already had serious r/s issues and he's beat her. I'm in the process of gaining a ro on the bf to keep my son from him.

Days of our Lives has nothing compared to this, the writers need find some BPD relationship material, but I'm sure no one would believe it.

JerryRG, I just recently realized during a therapy session exactly what you said... .my exgf uBPD is an addiction for me. She is like chasing the purple dragon. She gets me so high followed by extreme lows... .and I need that high again. Other relationships seem mundane and boring. But that purple dragon can never be caught. I have struggled with addiction in the past and it never occurred to me that she, my ex, and all her crazy drama and intermittent reinforcement had become my worst addiction yet.

My last recycle, after 5 weeks apart (We've been recycling on and off for 2 years) just ended on the 4th with our worst fight yet. She attacked me with a bat (surprised my arm isn't broke) and ripped at my neck/throat (scratch marks across my neck that bled)... .in defense I pushed her away, she fell and hit her head and immediately called the cops when she got up... .for me attacking her. No charges were filed as basically the cops told her we'd both end up in jail. This fight occurred because I told her I went on a date and kissed another girl while we were apart... .after she had admitted to having sex with 2 other guys and nearly a 3rd during that same period.

I'd constantly catch her stories changing upon the 2nd and 3rd time I heard them. She couldn't keep track of her lies, but when I'd confront her on the changes in her stories... .that's how she told it the first time! Yes, in their eyes anything they do is justified and they are never in the wrong. It's sick. NC is being initiated by me again and I hope I can get over my addiction to her this time.

[ICantFixHer]

I've recently acknowledged my addiction to my ex's manipulations. Living 80 miles away from her, I have felt the little "pang" of seeing her text or email and thinking, "She's begging me to come back!"

It feels good, right?

But in my case I can pinpoint to the hour practically when my ex will send the next email either threatening me or belittling me again. It just goes round and round with her.

So I am enforcing NC. So far, I like it. Wish I had done this a decade ago.

[JerryRG]

Thanks everyone, your experience helps me keep what happend real and that is what I need to not get sucked back into the chaos.

My exgf keeps sharing her issues with me and in the past I was delighted to offer her my help and guidance.

Problem is she's not my problem, her bf can help her now and she can whine to him. Last month her cancer was returning, today she's being seen for migraine headaches. Buy some caffeine and save yourself and the docs a lot of time and expense.

[Hopefulgirl]

The compulsive lying is what I think has destroyed any hope of a friendship with exBPD.

I keep fighting back the urge to say "please stop lying to me and just be honest, is that so hard ?"

Ive never used the word "lie" in talking or writing him for fear it will make things worse. I used to say things like "Im confused because I thought... ." when I knew that he'd lied to my face. Like BIG lies. I dont know if he was trying to protect himself from the truth or me.

Before I found out he had BPD it was driving me mad because I started doubting things I know I'd seen or heard from him. Even words I had spoken.

If anyone has advice on trying to tell a guy with BPD to stop lying, without making them never want to speak to me again, that would be great

[woundedPhoenix]

If anyone has advice on trying to tell a guy with BPD to stop lying, without making them never want to speak to me again, that would be great

First step is that they should stop lying to themselves... .That's the hardest part for someone who can rewrite history on the fly... .

[ICantFixHer]

If anyone has advice on trying to tell a guy with BPD to stop lying, without making them never want to speak to me again, that would be great

This will never happen, sad to say.

I got to the point where my ex gf's lying isn't even important to me anymore. Nothing she did to me was important other than the fact it opened my eyes I need to learn to enforce boundaries better.

You KNOW he's lying, HE knows he's lying, but because of his BPD he will never, ever admit it. If he does, he will take it back later.

For me being in a relationship with a BPD person is a lose-lose proposition. They never, ever learn.

Can any old timers here point to a disastrous BPD/NON relationship that was able to be turned around and made healthy again? I really don't think it's possible. Even if my ex were somehow able to prove to me she never cheated, all the OTHER stuff she threw at me to avoid answering my questions about stuff I'd seen with my own eyes would keep me from considering going back. Too many faces, too many lies.

[JerryRG]

Exgf tells me she is going to the clinic for migraine and ends up with infected bug bites on her bottom. The ones she so generously shared a view of a few days ago. Never ending medical crisis, chaos, drama and is any of it true? Doubt it.

[Herodias]

I did tell mine to quit lying- over and over. He said he would try and do better. When he came out of rehab, he wrote on his paperwork that one of the things he was going to do was to try and quit lying. he knows he does it. I heard a woman say that they do believe their own lies, that is how they are able to say them with such conviction. I am not so sure. I think they put to in their heads that this is their story and they are sticking to it. We all can do that if we wanted to... believe things the way we want. The problem is that there is always reality. I think they know. I know that one lie he has told is so huge and would make a big impact on him if it ever came out. I think he will take that secret to the grave. The compulsive lies are just his manipulations and trying to get out of trouble. I think he knows what he is doing. I think they must... .He never stopped lying. The last time I talked to him he said he was working on not lying, that he realized it was a bad thing to do. He is still lying and now they are all catching up with him through the divorce and the lawsuit he has against me. Even his own lawyer knows he lies now... .not good.

[FallBack!Monster]

How about this one... .

She totally made up a story that never even happened and no one was questioning about.  She told it just to be able to tell a lie.  The lie wasn't the story alone, the story was the point that she wanted to make with the totally made up story... .that none of it ever took place.  It almost landed someone in jail.

But then I felt bad for her that day bc she admitted she was lying and said she has no idea why she does it.  She says she never use to be like that.  Her eyes looked lost when she said - before she wasn't like that. and she doesn't understand what happened.  A few weeks later she brought up the subject of lying again, and almost cried when she said that she's being trying really hard to remember when that started.  Claiming she's sure she wasn't always that way.

My thoughts, maybe no one cared to hang around long enough to repeatedly called her on her sh*t as much as I did.  But that's just my egotistical opinion.

[Herodias]

The parents know they lie... .and yes, most healthy people catch a liar the first time and bolt. They seek out people who are ultra sensitive and who believe in giving people second chances. Who believe that marriage is to be saved no matter what... .who are willing to let things slide when apologized to and forgive them. They cry when they are caught.

[FallBack!Monster]

The parents know they lie... .and yes, most healthy people catch a liar the first time and bolt. They seek out people who are ultra sensitive and who believe in giving people second chances. Who believe that marriage is to be saved no matter what... .who are willing to let things slide when apologized to and forgive them. They cry when they are caught.

She didn't lie THAT time, but at other times she did.  I did feel bad when she was busted and cried (like a child) but by the 4th lie, i knew this relationship wasn't going anywhere.  and yes i am kind. and I let things slide. and no I don't think there's anything wrong with that.  Until it starts affecting your livelihood, your home, etc.  That's when I started to get mad.  The lies annoyed me and made me feel so so sorry for her.  But damn if I ever believed anything else that came out of her mouth.  Still, little did I know she wasn't only telling stupid lies. She was using her lies to totally destroy everything I single handedly build, while she was still smiling in my face.

Then her tears began to mean squat to me.

[JerryRG]

I'm currently attempting to convince my exgf to leave out all the details of her illnesses and to simply say she's ill and leave it at that. She said she needed to show me the bites on her bottom so I could possible identify then on our son. Then I told her that because of the rape alligation I would never be alone with her so I would never go into her apartment again.

She's using logic and saying her bf knows she showed me the bites and he's ok with it. Oh well they are both goofy . Sorry but they make me gag.

Oh she's upset again and on her way to pick up our son. She thinks I'm trying to break her and her bf up. Hmmm strange

Last month her cancer is returning and this week, migraine and infected bug bites. Oh my it is a miracle she's still alive