Unexpected Phone Call

[thrownforaloop]

Woke up to my phone ringing today. The caller was my exstep son's phone, so I answered it. It wasn't him though, it was my exBPDw... .

I don't know why I didn't hang up, but I stayed on. She called to tell me that our house was going to be foreclosing next month (we both knew this was going to be happening as we abandoned it during the initial separation). Then she started talking about the actual divorce. We live in a state where you have to be separated one full year before getting a divorce, so she asked if we wanted to lie to say we had been separated longer. I eagerly agreed to that idea.

And then she mentioned that she got her drivers license (something she never really wanted in the time we were together, when I was driving her everywhere) and she got a new job where she earns a decent amount and would be traveling every week.

She asked if I wanted to see exSS7 more, now that she would be going out of town so often. She said she understands that he is so much work and that I don't want to be his dad, but that I could be his friend. I said that I wasn't sure about that situation. I told her that I really enjoyed the original set up we had, where I was getting him from his grandma's instead of her--and that she was the one who limited my contact to begin with. She said that it wasn't feasible for her to always bring him to her mom's--that he's living full time with her and her boyfriend now. I admitted that it is extremely hard for me to go over to her boyfriend's to pick him up.

She was surprised by that. She thought that I hated her and that it wouldn't be a problem to go around there. I told her she was being naive about my feelings. Then she told me she had been crying our entire conversation and that this is one of the very few things in her entire life that she felt guilty about. She said that she wished she had gone into counseling back when her depression started a year ago to prevent all of this mess. I responded, "But, it wouldn't have mattered anyway--because you said you stopped loving me a long time ago. So we wouldn't have worked anyway."

She didn't really comment on that. She also made a point of saying that she never physically cheated on me, and that she didn't do anything with her boyfriend until after we were separated. I don't believe that at all, and there's a ton of evidence on the contrary, but it's almost nice to fantasize that she didn't... .it certainly would make the hurting less.

Anyway, when I was trying to get off the phone, she said "I love you". I don't know why. We already established she stopped loving me long ago... .don't know if she just started feeling sorry for me and thought it would make me feel better? Anyway, I just said, "okay, bye".

What a horrendously awful start to the day. That's going to play with my head all day.

[heartandwhole]

Hi thrownforaloop,

I feel for you, that is hard. I know I'd feel destabilized by a phone call like that. Try not to read too much into it if you can. You know that feelings are quite changeable for someone with BPD. She probably really felt and meant what she said in the moment, and wanted to minimize your pain. Unfortunately, in the next moment she could feel the opposite again. It's a sad feature of the dysfunctional relating that comes with the disorder.

Hang in there, I know it hurts. What can you do for yourself today to keep the "head-messing-with" at a reasonable level?

heartandwhole

[Meili]

Oh man, that's tough. It would all swim around in my head all day also. I feel for you.

I agree with H&W, we have to remember that just because the feelings may be real in that moment, the next they may be the opposite so we shouldn't read too much into anything. Staying focused on overall consistency patterns can help downplay those random moments of bliss.

[thrownforaloop]

Thanks for the responses, heartandwhole and Meili. Very much appreciated, especially now that my head is spinning. You're absolutely right though, her feelings are always shifting, so I should try to ignore.

But unfortunately, after the phone call, she started emailing, and for some odd reason, I was responding and being unusually responsive and vulnerable with her.

Here's the ending and most emotional pieces of the conversation from an hour ago:

Me: Anyway, we don't need to wallow in it. Let's just move on and interact as little as humanly possible. I'll get over the pain eventually, but I'm still pretty broken up about it at the moment. Speaking to you and seeing you is too difficult for me. I hope you'll understand. I know you want me out of your life too, so maybe it'll be easy to not contact each other.

Her: I don't want you out of my life. I don't think I realized how much I loved you until I left, as cliche as that is.

Me: You're going to make me cry with sentiments like that, but I don't think those are true feelings. You're going through a lot of changes, so maybe that's just you missing stability? The more I think about it, the more I can sort of see that you didn't seem to love or like me much. Don't forget that you didn't think highly of me.

Her: I think that you're very good at convincing yourself of whatever makes it hurt less. I miss you. I don't miss the stability. I don't miss our home or anything in it. I miss you sending me drawings. I miss playing Terraria. I miss being woken up by your parseltongue. Before all of this started I wanted to quit our entire life in [city] and have a fresh start literally anywhere else. I never cared about stability. I cared about you. I am not easy to live with, or even easy to be around, and I don't express love very well, if at all. But I did and still do love you. I can't help but wallow in it all ending. It's inevitable, but I don't know why I ever wanted this.

Me: Thinking you didn't love me made it hurt way more. Thank you for having good memories of me, you have no idea how much it means. I loved you more than anything in my life, but I just couldn't figure out how to balance responsibilities and properly communicate with you. I believe I was codependent, yet couldn't understand you fully and so I was constantly confused and anxious. Hopefully I'll take this time to grow stronger and wiser. I hope the happiness you had with me is surpassed with [boyfriend]. I hope things continue to go well for you and that you won't have to go through this ever again.

Her: Now who's making who cry?

[heartandwhole]

Wow, thrown, that sounds like some caring closure for you both. I had something similar, where pwBPD and I kept reiterating that we loved each other. It didn't stop the "inevitable" as your ex said.

How are you feeling about this conversation?

heart

[thrownforaloop]

heartandwhole, what happened with yours? Did the words of love go back to being words of hurt?

And it does seem like closure, but it is really messing with me right now. For the past three months, I've been under the idea (that she told me) that she stopped loving me a long time ago, that she cheated, that she thought I was responsible for not helping her depression, etc.

I genuinely loved her, so hearing that she loves me too makes me feel very sad. It was a lot easier when I thought of her as a heartless user, almost.

[Meili]

I had the same type of closure conversation with my x too. Lots of ILY, I miss... ., but, we're toxic.

I'd feel sad too. But, can you focus on the totality of all of it? Do her words match her actions? I mean, I understand that you haven't seen her actions as of late, but when all is looked at together?

[heartandwhole]

Hi thrownforaloop,

No, I was lucky in that the words never got hurtful, even during the relationship. The sudden about turns in terms of his feelings toward me felt devastating, though. At the end, he was projecting trauma onto me (I was perceived as the person who had betrayed and hurt him in his formative years), then shifted within 24 hours to being in love again, etc. You know how it can be.

My point is that in my experience the very heartfelt words and actions of today can radically turn to something very, very different tomorrow. My heart couldn't take that kind of changeability.

Your feelings of sadness are so understandable. It's very painful to lose someone who meant so much to you.  . I'd encourage you to give yourself some time to process these feelings, and try to remember your values and how you want to live and love (and be loved) going forward.

We're here for you.

heartandwhole

[NewTring]

She's sleeping with another man now and telling you she loves you?  Think about that.

[thrownforaloop]

Do her words match her actions?

She's sleeping with another man now and telling you she loves you?  Think about that.

Meili and NewTring, those are both excellent points. You're both right. Her actions do not match her words at all. Thinking back on it, had she wanted to get me back, she wouldn't be dating and then living with another man... .and she would have done literally ANYTHING to try to get me back. Up until today, previous contacts had been trying to say how terrible I was.

My point is that in my experience the very heartfelt words and actions of today can radically turn to something very, very different tomorrow. My heart couldn't take that kind of changeability.

heartandwhole, no kidding! Going back and forth from love and hate is such a killer. Every time I talk to her it feels like I've been run over... .never know what to expect, but it always leaves me surprised and sad.

I think the takeaway from this, for me, is that I shouldn't trust her words--and I should accept that she basically has two radically different people living inside her head. Yes, she showed a lot of maturity and compassion today, but you're right, tomorrow she might tell me that she was lying today and doesn't/didn't really love me. Who knows.

All I do know is that I need to get out of the mess--feel so tangled up right now.

[Meili]

I came to the same conclusion about my x today. If she were really interested in "forever" like she's said, then she would not be seeing someone else and ignoring me. That's not what she is choosing to do, so that's what I have to believe.

The tangled up feelings definitely make everything much harder than we would like it to be. I try to be mindful of my feelings and allow them to exist these days. I used to fight them and try to make them go away. That only made things worse. I hope that you can center yourself and not let the feelings overwhelm you.

[ICantFixHer]

Her: ... .have a fresh start

I can still recall with crystal clarity the first time my ex said "let's make a fresh start." In time I came to understand it means discarding the facts that had led to the event which resulted in having to start over again. Cycles.

Who knows.

I think you know, Thrown. I know I knew deep down over the 10 years we interacted that I was being deceived on multiple levels.

Hang in there and value your decisions.

[Indifferent28]

This is a very hard situation.

Do you think there is a possibility of her "i love you" as a platonic meaning, as in she will always care about you?
I know my ex told me that a few times after our break up. But she didn't mean it in that way, and the fact that she could openly tell me that, without it meaning the "in love way" told my heart she was really done.

Everyone here makes a great point to you though... .if she was meaning she loved you in that way, then you can't go by that since her actions aren't matching. If she meant it that way, she would be on your door step, with sincere regret and saw the error of her ways as well as yours. She would see compromise in order to even attempt to make anything work, rather than just three words.

Those three words sure can keep a person lingering though.
That's why the behavior is important to analyze because if it doesn't match the words, why even ponder it?

I'm sorry you're struggling. I think everyone here would be mind screwed if they got the same call.

[Indifferent28]

one more thing, to be fair, your ex does seem somewhat reasonable compared to a lot here.
Some of the posts here sound like the people were more closely aligned with sociopaths.

[thrownforaloop]

Thanks for the responses everyone, they've been very helpful.

Indifferent28, I've been trying to get in touch with my rational side, as my emotions got the better of me earlier. I think you're absolutely right though--she meant "I love you" in a platonic way. She collects her ex-lovers as friends and never lets them go. She wasn't asking to get back together, and who knows if she would even considered it, if I wanted it. All I know is that little sliver of love she expressed made me want to act out for a moment. I've never asked her to give us another chance since the separation, so I'm not sure what she would say.

A month into the separation, she asked a couple of times, VERY lightly, if I would consider our relationship again--but I rejected it then. In consequence, I wonder if the rejection made her too vulnerable to outright ask again.

Anyway, I don't have a real reason to believe she wanted me back now, so I'll assume she doesn't.
I do know that I genuinely don't want her back--it was just a fleeting feeling from built up emotions and lack of love. As per her motivations, she was probably saying such nice things so I would forgive her and relieve her of her guilt for her closure.

one more thing, to be fair, your ex does seem somewhat reasonable compared to a lot here.
Some of the posts here sound like the people were more closely aligned with sociopaths.

She was diagnosed as a sociopath when she was a teen... .who knows. She usually is not anywhere near  this nice and reasonable, which is why it really f@#ked with my head. She's normally blaming me or telling me how horrible I am/was. However, she is extremely intelligent, and I think she knows that if she was anything but nice, I would block her email (I've already blocked her phone and social media, so she knows she's on thin ice with me). And also, seems like as of today, she was painting me white.