Want Her Back

[JJacks0]

I have been posting in the "detaching" board for the past week or so, but today I don't feel like detaching.
Today I'd just like to see if there is any way to save this.

My ex and I were together for about 7 years before we moved out and got separate places in April. We had a push/pull dynamic from roughly late May/early June up until July 21st. That was the last time I saw her. She had invited me over, professed her love and how she didn't want to see anybody else, missed me so much... .and by the time I left her house that night she had decided that we shouldn't speak anymore, that it had been a bad idea to call me. In hindsight I'm realizing that a big reason she called me was probably due to family frustrations. Since she was pretty unhappy with her dad that day, she came to me to soothe her emotions. But upon seeing me and spending time with me she decided that it just "didn't feel right", & "something was missing... ." which is a little hard to decipher considering the mixed signals I had been receiving from her.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=297651.0 (here is a timeline I pieced together looking back at old messages)

Regardless, she initiated NC & we have not spoken in 2 weeks - that is until today when I sent her a "thinking of you" message to acknowledge the 1 year anniversary of her mother's passing. She did not respond and I do not believe she will, although I desperately hope to hear from her.

Given the situation, there's really nothing I can do but wait I suppose. She has requested NC and I have to respect that. Technically the last time we spoke she said that it isn't as though I could never reach out if I really had to - I could contact her if anything really terrible happens. Then she corrected herself and said it doesn't have to be something terrible... .but she still implied that it really shouldn't be on just a casual, let's catch up basis... since she thinks she'll just end up hurting me (leading me on when she's no longer interested) and she wants to move on.

The longer I go without her the worse it feels. It isn't getting any easier, and I just want to find a way to make this work.


The problem is, I have no idea if she will contact me again. It seems like she is reconnecting with old friends and family (which is good, I think... ) but who she is now idealizing to the point that I'm not sure I serve any purpose to her anymore. I believe that they are also encouraging her to move on and cut me out, and their input is of great value to her at this point I'm sure.

It seems as though the odds are stacked pretty heavily against me, but I miss her so much and I'm so afraid she'll just find someone new as quickly as possible and forget I ever existed.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[thisagain]

Hi Jacks,

I think you're right that at this point all you can do is wait! As scary as it is, any more attempts to reach out will probably just push her further away. When pwBPD are in a phase of devaluing someone, the sweetest, most innocent words or actions on your part can be distorted into something horrific that they must run away from.

I think there are two categories of things you can do, so that if she ever reaches out to you, you'll be in a better position to try to have a more stable relationship.

First, take care of yourself. This includes basic needs - eat well, sleep, exercise. And also, try to spend your time on things that nourish your soul and remind you of who you are, apart from your relationship.

Did you ever feel like you lost touch with friends, hobbies, and passions during the relationship? Now is the time to reconnect with those when you feel up to it (but be gentle with yourself and don't push too hard to ignore or push aside the grief).

Are you in therapy for yourself or have you been during the relationship? That's probably the single most helpful thing you can do. Keep posting on here and working on becoming the best version of you that you can be. If your ex ends up reaching out, you'll be a healthier, happier person who is more prepared to be the emotional leader in the relationship and keep yourself off the roller-coaster. If she doesn't, you'll be a healthier, happier person who is more prepared to detach and move forward.

Second, it can't hurt to learn the communications and conflict-response tools that we teach on here. They are specially selected because of their usefulness in communicating with pwBPD, but are good principles for communicating with anyone, especially when they are experiencing intense emotions. I'm sorry I don't have time to find you the link right now, but the green sidebar on the right side of the Improving forum is a great place to start.

Here we are all about "cleaning up your side of the street" and focusing on how to improve the relationship by changing how YOU act and respond. The good part about that is that you can work on it without your partner being involved at all. And it'll benefit you in the long run regardless of what happens with your partner in the future.

How are you doing and feeling today? Hang in there and remember we're here for you.

[lovenature]

Sounds like a lot of concern about her from both of you, how about what YOU want from this relationship? Have your needs been met? Knowing what you do about this disorder and your situation, do you think even with applying the tools you will be able to have a relationship that is healthy enough to be considered worthwhile for both of you?

[JJacks0]

Well I made the mistake of checking her FB and seeing photos from the trip her family took yesterday in honor of her mother's passing. She looks really good and really happy... .but who knows how deep that goes.

I haven't heard a word from her even after sending the thinking of you text yesterday. So I've been having a rough couple of days, doing a lot of dwelling and finding it very hard not to beat myself up about the way things ended. I wish there were something I could do to make her understand how much more I understand her now and how much I would do differently. Unfortunately, at this point she doesn't seem interested in acknowledging my existence anymore.

Everyone tells me to take care of me, and I know that's all I really can do. But I have such little motivation. I'm just consumed with these thoughts and this overwhelming sadness.

I do think that the relationship could be more successful (albeit still challenging at times, I'm sure) with the new tools I've acquired. I think that she does still need to work on herself before she's ready to be with anyone, but if she truly does have BPD it seems unlikely that she'll take the time to focus on improving herself before attaching to someone else. I believe she's already attaching to one of her friends right now, who she appears to have on a pedestal. 

My needs have not always been met, but this has always been at times when her situation was worse and her needs came first. For instance, when her mother was ill last year I was with her 24/7 for months at the hospice, by her side, bringing her anything she and her family needed... .I all but ignored my own family/friends, etc. After her mother passed away I really needed to get back in school, work, and socialize again. I'll admit, I was gone more than I should have been - at least I'm sure it seemed to be a lot to her, especially in comparison to before. I always invited her when I went out with friends but she rarely wanted to. At the time I felt like I was losing myself, if I did anything for me I was "selfish" , and her constant accusations that I was so self-absorbed just made me bitter and depressed. This is a situation in which we both had needs, but they seemed to clash, and her needs took priority over mine. She was absolutely wonderful to me when she was okay, but if something was wrong in her world that did always take center stage. And when she was upset with me she acted like she no longer cared for me at all. I remember once showing her a photo of an angry old man still holding an umbrella over his wife in the rain, and trying to explain to her that when I'm upset with her I still love her and care about her but when she's upset with me I feel like she hates me. So I guess that's something else that always scared me about her. She has so many wonderful characteristics that make for such an amazing partner, but I do think that my love for her is unconditional, while her love is a bit conditional. I could be completely wrong, but this is how I have at times perceived it.

Despite everything, the pain that I'm feeling without her is so much worse than any pain I felt with her - even the lows (which were pretty damn low) were never this bad. I'm sure I'm romanticizing the past a bit and sweeping away the bad. But right now I'd give just about anything to have her back.

[FallBack!Monster]

In the past, when I started here, I would have read this JJ, and said it was beautiful and down right delusional. But nope, that was nice to read. I can feel your pain, your sorrows, confusion but detect some reluctance.  You love this woman. You which you knew the answer. You wish you could take the good with the bad but then there's that wall; the disorder. I can identify with those feelings bc even while I'm still working on myself and won't change that for anytin the world, damn I liked that woman

Then again my perception of your writing could be wrong.  But was I even close?

[Meili]

What thisagain said is pretty much spot on. The only thing that I would add is that during this "quiet time" you can do a postmortem on the relationship and look at your part in all of it. That will be of an incredible benefit to you in the future.

[JJacks0]

What exactly does a postmortem entail? I think I have a pretty clear understanding of my roll in our r/s and what I did to trigger her/negatively effect things as well. That's what I'm feeling especially guilty about right now and what I'd like another chance at. I feel like I have better knowledge and understand her more now and would do my part to make things better.

She has still not contacted me in 16 days. I'm feeling pretty desperate but it seems like everyone on these boards has advised me not to reach out. It's getting harder though, not easier. Every morning I feel so much anxiety, almost panic set in. It makes me want to do something, although I don't know what I can do.

I wish I had some way of knowing what she was thinking, if calling her would make it worse, or if there's any chance she'll call me in the future. I just feel completely in the dark and don't know where to go from here. 

[Meili]

If you know your role in all of it (why you are/were attracted to this person and then ignored the red flages, the problems that you caused, why you chose/choose to stay with someone who treats you in ways that don't make you happy, where you failed with effective communication, etc.), then you've probably already made a great start on the postmortem. A great many people just blame everything on their ex or BPD and go rolling right along into their next disordered relationship without ever looking at their part.

It is my hope that you can change your way of thinking about "wanting to do something." I say that because you are, in fact, doing something for and about saving the relationship if it can be saved. This concept is one that I struggled with at first. I wanted to do something that she could actively see. I wanted to show her how much of a mistake that she was making. I wanted to partner with her in repairing things. None of that will work in most situations however. Finding the patience and resolve to get through this is really the hardest part (for me anyway) of all of it. Changing the idea of what "doing something" means has been an incredible benefit to me along that path.

When you have adapted the right mindset it won't really matter if she's reached out yet or not. In fact, with the right mindset, you won't actually want her to do so yet. You'll want to be completely confident that the changes that you're making on yourself are solid and that the new tools that you are learning are habitual. If those two things are not in place, you're going to be setting yourself up for pain and heartbreak.

You're going to have to radically accept that you don't know what she's thinking. Looking at posts and pics on social media won't even give you a clue and will only serve to cause more strife for you. Trying to gain information from her social media should be avoided at all costs.

Now, you can be pretty sure that if this relationship is right and that she loves and wants you enough in her life to make it work (and it will be a lot of work for you both!), then she'll contact you. If she doesn't, and thus doesn't contact, then you're better off. When you accept that, it becomes about you and not her. (Those last two sentences evidence the right kind of mindset btw).

[Icanteven]

if this relationship is right and that she loves and wants you enough in her life to make it work (and it will be a lot of work for you both!), then she'll contact you. If she doesn't, and thus doesn't contact, then you're better off.

Feel like this bears repeating ad nauseum, as it was the hardest thing to accept:  I can't beg her to come back, I can't reason her out of her decision, and it may be that living my life and focusing on improving myself only further pushes her away as she sees ANY chance of exerting control over me slip farther and farther away. 

[Meili]

In fact, begging and trying to reason will only push her further away, faster! That's why we all say to stay NC or LC in situations where NC is not possible.

If self-improvement is met with accusations of pushing away, that is the perfect time to utilize the communication tools here in that she's telling you something important that you need to pay attention to. The words are accusing you of something, but the emotions that she is conveying are what need to be address.

[JJacks0]

I don't doubt you,  but why is it that it pushes them away?  Part of me would think that they'd like the feeling of an attachment wanting them. Wouldn't it be comforting?

[Meili]

Part of the disorder is that their fear of intimacy causes them to dysregulate. So, the feeling of attachment scares them and causes them to act out. At least that is the overly-simplified version of it. If you are interested in more detailed explanations, there are several that can be found on this site if you poke around.

Does that make any sense?

[JJacks0]

Oh God she answered... .what do I do?

She said thank you and I said you're welcome but should I leave it at that? There's so much more I want to say but I don't want to push her away

[thisagain]

  first try to breathe!

What more do you want to say?

Personally I'd at least give it some time for the emotions to subside after the anniversary... .Spend that time learning as much as you can, so you'll have a better idea of what you'd need to do for the relationship to have a chance at working. If you go into it thinking and acting the same way, you're going to get the same outcome. (And sadly, even if you study up and do a very skillful job of managing conflict in the relationship, you still might get the same outcome.)

[JJacks0]

Well I want to say a whole bunch of crazy things, like how I miss her and want to see her, etc. (I won't of course)... .but it's what I'm thinking.

She text me back a few days after I text her and said, "Thank you. I'm sorry I didn't say it sooner but it meant a lot to me. You're the only person I just needed to hear from. Really thank you."

I said, "Of course. I thought about you guys all day."

I was hesitant to say any more, although I was pretty much dying to. I keep reminding myself that she has deleted all evidence of me on FB and this really could be nothing more than a thank you. I'd love to think that this is the beginning of some sort of communication but I really have no idea what would make us speak next. The anniversary was one thing, but I'm not sure we have another reason to make contact for quite a while. I think I should probably leave the ball in her court, right?

I was so tempted to say more, but really didn't want to risk her thinking that my initial reason for contacting her wasn't genuine. I don't want her to think that I only reached out to try to get her back... .and I think that she may well assume that if I pushed it and tried to keep talking. I guess this way, her last association with me will be a positive one at least.

[Meili]

I also would just leave it alone for right now. There will likely be other reasons to communicate in the future. It's amazing the reasons that people will find to open a dialog when they want to talk. In fact, that's what you want from her; you want her to want to talk. She too is human, when she wants to talk to you, she will.

Many of us (if not all) go through the same thing that you are of wanting to remind them that we love, miss, and want to see them. We all seem to forget that we were in relationships with these people and just because we in their face telling them these things doesn't mean that they don't know it.

It's true that in extreme cases, object permanence is missing in a disordered person. But, because it's a spectrum and not a list of check boxes, it isn't true for all. The reality of this situation is, however, that if our pwBPD actually lacks object permanence, then there is little that we can do anyway.

[JJacks0]

So I should basically go back into NC mode unless I hear from her?

I got a little glimpse of hope with her response, but now I'm worried that it was false hope since she didn't say anymore. She could have kept talking, asked how I was or anything but she didn't. And I think the fact that it was a text and not a call is also kind of telling. Making sure to keep it short.

Now I'm bumming myself out, thinking I read into that and it was nothing more than a polite thank you, and I won't be hearing from her again.

[Meili]

Yes, remain NC for now IMHO.

The best thing that you can do for yourself right now is stop trying to dissect each and every word and interaction to see if there is hidden meaning. All that you can possibly know is that she said thank you. Aside from that, an infinite number of possibilities exist as to motivation, meaning, message, etc. The human mind is very creative and can conjure up all sorts of things that are not in existence.

For instance, I can decide that she's been kidnapped by Frost Giants and she only had a quick moment to send a help message to you. She knew that it would be monitored, so she wanted to covertly let you know that something was wrong. So, she sent you a message that would trigger your emotions in hopes that you'd decode her replay and rescue her.

Sadly, given the information that we have available, my scenario is just as likely as any other that one could come up with. We just don't, and can't, know.

[JJacks0]

I'm sure you're right. I just keep thinking I'm sitting here doing nothing while she's out there forgetting about me and looking for a replacement.

Makes me want to act.

[Meili]

Perhaps we can change your perceptions then!

The fears are a natural part of all of this. Relationships with pwBPD are physically addictive. They create documented, biochemical reactions in our brains and we become addicted to those chemicals. When the source of our addiction is taken away, we go through withdrawals and frantically wonder when and how we'll get our next fix.

If she actually loves you, she isn't forgetting about you that easily or quickly. If she is forgetting about you, then she doesn't actually love you and you're ultimately better off. Do you think that she actually loves you?

If you were to act, what would you do? Would you try to convince her that she needs you? Would you try to rationalize with her about why she should love you? Would you act clingy, desperate, insecure, and unattractive?

BPD is a disorder based on fear. Showing that we are insecure does not make the pwBPD feel safe. They want to feel safe. Acting in the ways mentioned above is contrary to that. Invalidating their reason for stepping back, telling them that their thought processes are wrong, and showing weakness does not give them what they need. Do you want to give her what she needs?

I will also add that by working on yourself you are, in fact, doing something. It isn't just for yourself, but for every relationship that you have. If this one survives, by doing the work now, while you can focus solely on you and the work that needs to be done, you are doing something for her and the relationship!

It's all about perception!

[lar, laris]

Hi, JJacks0,

I sympathize with your situation; it is very hard emotionally and cognitively to deal with the abruptly changing messages pwBPD can sometimes bring us.  I have dealt with that myself. 

I hope that you are at least coping with the excellent advice that you have received from various forum friends on your thread.  How are you doing at the moment?

lar, laris

[sassyone]

I've been down a similar road.  I was in a relationship with a pwBPD (we'll call her Sally) for three years. We broke up and didn't speak (and even dated other people) for almost a year. My feelings for Sally never changed. I broke up with a nice girl I dated because I realised I was still in love with my Sally. I sought therapy with a therapist, Steve,  that specialises in schema therapy. Sally started seeing a DBT therapist who specialised in ST before we broke up, so I understood the value of it. I really worked hard with Steve to work out my own triggers and maladaptive schemas. I also learned helpful mindfulness techniques.

Christmas that year was horrible. I briefly spoke to Sally in October on instant messenger and it made me realise the feelings were still as strong as before. That's when I stopped dating. So I went through the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays alone. I remember being at work and Ordinary World by Duran Duran coming on the radio and I just sat there and cried. I've never felt so alone. It was horrific.

But therapy helped a lot, and time moved on. I won't lie, I never missed her less. It just got easier for me to cope day to day with us not being together.

Then a funny thing happened. Sally contacted me. I was in a really good place in terms of my own mental health and my own value. Long story short, we started seeing each other again. I read "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder: How to Keep Out-of-Control Emotions from Destroying Your Relationship" and "The High-conflict Couple: A Dialectical Behavior Therapy Guide to Finding Peace, Intimacy & Validation."  and found both books helped me to plot a new course in our relationship.

That was almost two years ago. The change in our relationship dynamic has been pretty stark.  I no longer get triggered by her being triggered, and ride the BPD  emotional rollercoaster with her. If I find she's triggered and being harmful or hurtful to me, I can disengage. I can see it now for what it is, (her being triggered) rather than some horrific truth she's uncovered about me.

Now I won't say that our relationship is normal. I'm in a caretaker position of sorts. I accept that'll always be the case. I read somewhere of pwBPD that "when it comes to coping with strong emotions, they can be stuck at a child’s developmental level." I accept that this is something that may never change. I have to be vigilant in making sure I'm not being subjugated.  With all that mind, I also know I get something FROM this relationship too, that I value deeply.

I've also become a mindfulness ninja. I'm aware that at some point in our relationship she may do something or make a decision that will make our relationship untenable. I know what my boundaries are and won't compromise them.

I've come to realize that she's probably "the one" and that if we do break up I'll never find another relationship that matches this in intimacy or intensity. I won't rule it out, but I just know I've been alive almost 5 decades and never found any relationship as close or as satisfying as ours is. But even finding "the one" isn't excuse enough to lose myself in the relationship or give it more power or space in my life than it deserves. I read something somewhere about a woman that had her partner cheat on her and the aftermath from that.  She said something along the lines of

"Today I'm dating a guy that I like a lot. Just for today I love my life that includes my friends and my cat. I don't know what life will be like tomorrow. But when I woke up February 19th,  2012,  I didn't know that on that my now ex-husband would say that night that they had cheated and they were leaving me. That life after that day would be radically different."

I'm living in the moment with my partner. I don't think of it as fatalistic, but more as realistic. That isn't just a BPD relationship thing, but a life thing.  It's just more stark with a pwBPD.

[JJacks0]

Thanks for sharing that, sassyone (nice name btw).

I really enjoyed reading that, it gave me more hope than I've had in quite a while. Realistic hope. I feel like I'm doing a tiny bit better today, but I say that apprehensively since my experience in the aftermath has been almost as much of a rollercoaster as our r/s was. Generally when I start to feel an improvement as far as moving on goes, I regress a few days later. So all I can really say with certainty is how I feel in this moment, and at this moment I know it's too soon to talk to her anyways. Nothing significant will have changed. If I were to imagine my ideal outcome, it would be much like yours - reconnecting once we're both in better states mentally.

It was really nice to hear a success story, and I hope things stay well for you.

[JJacks0]

Out of curiosity sassyone,

When you broke up for that year, was it her doing or yours? Was the NC (or LC, I'm not sure... ) mutual or were there attempts by either of you to reach out? I guess I'm just looking to relate, and for a little bit of hope. Like I said, I haven't seen a lot of stories like yours. I'm sure they exist but we just don't see them written on these boards often.

[sassyone]

It was my doing. It happened over months of me feeling like I wasn't getting what I thought I needed.

I don't want to give you false hope, but sometimes reading this board can give you a lopsided view of people with BPD. My lesson from it all was that I worked on my own stuff and learned more about how BPD works/manifests. If you do the same, you'll better off regardless of if she comes back.

[JJacks0]

Yes, that's what I intend to do. I just like hearing the positive stories once in a while. Thanks.