I'm scared to break up with my boyfriend who I believe has BPD

[Turkish]

I'm thinking of the angle that cold NC might result in him escalating his behaviors. As much as you need it, I think engaging in the emotional investment of closure on your side, and any form other than neutral and short (with boundaries) may also escalate his dramatic behavior. What do your professional advocates think about it?

I'm thinking a safe, controlled contact, goodbye. It might not have to be in person even if you have safety precautions (people with you, or watching). Given his threats, I'd defer to the advice you're getting in real life from your advocates, however. We still don't know if the police story is real.

[VitaminC]

That's a good point that Turkish made, Roselee.

If you feel some kind of clear and formal finish is required, then please do so only after taking advice from your advocates (the hotline?). Lay out the facts of what has been going on, and how it has affected you, and see what advice you are given. Share it with us, if you wish.

* If you meet in person, let it be in a public place, as FHTH suggested. Do not go to his home or have him to yours.
* If at all possible, have at least one person there as a moral support and a witness, and to communicate just with their presence that you are serious and that you are serious because his behaviour has genuinely frightened you and you have had enough of it.

None of this is to be mean and nasty, it is not to frighten either him or you any more - it is to communicate calmly and seriously that things have gone too far. It is, actually, a de-escalation, if you think about it.  

The title of your thread "I'm scared to break up with my boyfriend who I believe has BPD" makes this necessary. There are vague fears that we have (we talked about them earlier in the thread) and then there are the actual ones based on your BPD's actions of the last few days.

Keep yourself safe, psychologically and physically, ok?  Neither of those parts of you need to be hurt anymore. And if you have any doubts about this, just read over all the posts here, from you and the responses to you. Remind yourself, that even if you had imagined the whole thing, it would still be wise to get some distance.

You do not need to agree to anything that does not make you feel safe. Remember also, that we get used to ever more bad behaviour and that begins to seem normal and we both appear to have brains that are better at remembering good things than bad things.
In general, that's a great way to be in life, but it can also really work against us at times. This is one of those times.

[Grey Kitty]

If you are going to break up with him, are there any logistical steps you need to take? Besides choosing not to be in a relationship with him, that is!

Any form of joint finances, lease, bank accounts, credit cards, phone plans, etc.?

Do you have stuff at his place, or does he have stuff at your place that should be returned or recovered?

[Roselee]

Grey Kitty... .we do not share any accounts, or finances of any kind.  There are a few things at my house that he should have back... some clothing. a BBQ, and a wood chipper.  I had thought about either borrowing or renting a pickup and dropping those items off during the day when he will be at work. 

I rec'd a phone call from his sister-in-law last night, apparently all during their vacation this week he had been calling his brother and telling him about the same crazy stuff he had been accusing me of.  Told him that he thought I may be plotting to kill him, dumped all his open bottles of alcohol in his liquor cabinet out thinking that I may have poisoned them.  Told his brother that he contacted the police and his lawyer.  I actually felt relieved that he was saying this same stuff to them as well, so that they were made aware of how unstable he actually is.  They contacted their other brother, who apparently went over there last night to see how he was, and talk to him.

My girlfriend told me last night that he called her husband and apologized, I was glad to hear that, but again, the damage is probably done there. I'm sure they see him in a total different light now.  How could they not?

He called me this morning, and I did not answer, no message.  I'm sure this will not be the last one.  Thinking I can't ignore him forever, and that is how he will see it, and maybe get angry again.  I thought of somehow letting him know that I rec'd his message that he was sorry, and realizing he needs help, and am glad to hear that he is going to do so... .but I am suffering right now as well, and can't really be the ONE to help him.  So nervous as to what to say or not say... .don't want him to perceive it as hope, I don't want to have him lose it again.  But I know, if I don't respond at all, that will make him go into a tailspin as well.  For me it is too soon to meet him in person.  Although, should that ever happen, I like the idea of it being a public place... .not either one of our houses.

[Roselee]

Well... .scratch that last post of once again thinking all would be good with a quick conversation.  Maybe since I didn't answer him?  I rec'd a text from him this morning stating that he did actually go to the police and made a report "just in case something were to happen" to him or his son.  He said he gave them all my information, as well as my girlfriends husband, phone numbers and addresses (although not sure if he has their address, so not sure if that part is true or not, but I guess not to hard to find anymore).  Said he told them about all the things I've been saying and acting like I'm concerned for his well being, and that he's really frightened.  And that he wants the car out of there... .and doesn't expect any $$ from it.  Stating the Officer on the case will be getting in touch with Her husband to make arrangements to get the car. 
I guess I need to go to the police now... .just to give them a heads up as well?  I did forward the message to his sister-in-law who has contacted me. 
Sick all over again... .I feel this will never end! 

[fromheeltoheal]

I actually felt relieved that he was saying this same stuff to them as well, so that they were made aware of how unstable he actually is.  They contacted their other brother, who apparently went over there last night to see how he was, and talk to him.

Good stuff, it's good that other people, family, are aware, and it may be a little stabilizing as well.

but I am suffering right now as well, and can't really be the ONE to help him.  So nervous as to what to say or not say... .don't want him to perceive it as hope, I don't want to have him lose it again.  But I know, if I don't respond at all, that will make him go into a tailspin as well.  For me it is too soon to meet him in person.  Although, should that ever happen, I like the idea of it being a public place... .not either one of our houses.

You're right, you can't be the one to help, in fact you're the worst choice to help him since at this point in these relationships you are triggering for each other.

It's helpful to focus on the goal.  What do you want?  You want the relationship to be over and you want him out of your life, correct me if I'm wrong, and that would be simple, except for concern over him losing it and harming you physically.  Your physical safety is paramount although it's not complicated to ensure it, once you focus on what you need to do and gather the information and resources.  And then you can make decisions about what to do based on what you want to do, instead of basing them on what kind of reaction he'll have, much better yes?

The chances of getting satisfactory closure at the end of these relationships is slim to none, so closure comes from grieving the loss of the relationship, processing the emotions, learning a bunch about ourselves, detaching emotionally, making peace with it, and moving forward with our lives, light and free.  That will happen, by going through it, the only way out is through.

And I agree, it's too early, things too volatile, to meet him, even publicly, and beyond the desire for closure, is there even a reason to?  Now's the time to put your needs first Roselee, selfishness is your friend, and if you come from a place of what's best for you in all your decisions, you will find your way out.  Take care of you!

[fromheeltoheal]

Well... .scratch that last post of once again thinking all would be good with a quick conversation.  Maybe since I didn't answer him?  I rec'd a text from him this morning stating that he did actually go to the police and made a report "just in case something were to happen" to him or his son.  He said he gave them all my information, as well as my girlfriends husband, phone numbers and addresses (although not sure if he has their address, so not sure if that part is true or not, but I guess not to hard to find anymore).  Said he told them about all the things I've been saying and acting like I'm concerned for his well being, and that he's really frightened.  And that he wants the car out of there... .and doesn't expect any $$ from it.  Stating the Officer on the case will be getting in touch with Her husband to make arrangements to get the car. 
I guess I need to go to the police now... .just to give them a heads up as well?  I did forward the message to his sister-in-law who has contacted me. 
Sick all over again... .I feel this will never end! 

Well, my last post isn't entirely applicable now either, but the points are the same: protect yourself and do what's right for you.  There's that local hotline, there's the police, there's friends, keep on rallying the support, he sounds more paranoid than threatening, and cops aren't dumb, they likely saw what was really up with him, if he actually went to the cops, all you got was a text from him, sketchy reliability it seems, but staying the course and acting, not reacting to him, is the right approach.  Take care of you!

[VitaminC]

How are things going, Roselee?

[Roselee]

Well, it has been a long and very sad weekend for me.  I did not hear from him at all this weekend. His sister-in-law had spoken to him on Friday (she is also a nurse so he tends to listen better to her). She told him she wanted to let him know that she had spoken to me, because he asked his brother for her to call me to make sure that I was aware that he had spoken to the police regarding the fear of his safety. And he was saying "ok... .good... .good you told her"   Truly bazaar.

Then on Saturday, she contacted me that they couldn't find him. His vehicle was at his house but he wasn't there. Then they were saying that his son thinks he was sleeping with his gun... .and they couldn't find it now.  I don't know if that is true or not that he would sleep with gun... .he may have said that to his son, but whether he was actually doing so... .who could know.  Anyway... .after a while, they finally locate him. He was at a bar with a friend, (who in my opinion, and his sister-in law's, is the worse friend he could have been with).  They told me that his house, mostly kitchen was a total mess... .with pot, seeds & stems were all over the kitchen counter... .and cans and stuff all over the kitchen.  Also, when they went upstairs, they found on his dresser what looked to be Meth!  How, friggin ironic!  I told her, I knew he had to be doing something for him to be up so many days and nights in a row. I wasn't very surprised, although all during our relationship he never did that... .atleast as far as I knew.
He has a close friend of his that he's known since childhood, and he went over to his house Sat night... .and tried to reason with him. Told him he was a total hypocrite, accusing me of doing it, when there he is doing it now.  I have said again to his sister-in-law how fortunate he is to have so many people around him that are running to see how he is, and trying to talk to him. She said her husband and his other brother were going over on Sunday to take him to lunch.  Haven't heard how they made out with that.
I on the other hand, am going thru a bazaar conglomerate of feelings. Anger, Fear, Sadness,Concern, Loneliness, Depression.  Missing the friend that I used to have, or thought I had... .angry that he would do and say these things to me. Maybe we could have had a great thing... .if only he didn't let his paranoia and anger consume him like this. I think that's why it lasted 5 1/2 years... .I kept thinking it would get better... .he would see what he's doing.  My older daughter had very smart words for me.  When I told her that I'm sad, because this isn't him, this isn't the man I love, I feel it's a disorder.  She looked at me and said "Mom... .then this IS him... .it's part of him, you need to stop making excuses for him"  So smart! And I don't see him making any attempt to get himself better... .only make himself worse.  When I tell my girlfriend that I am concerned for him, she says that that means I must want to get back with him. I know that can't happen, I cannot in any way go through this again!  I have to stop thinking of the good things... .so much has happened since then, and remember the feelings of anguish, fear... .that feeling I would get when he would scream at me, the anxiety I would feel if my girlfriend would invite me to stop by after work, or go with her to take our other friend out to lunch for her birthday, how I really would want to go, but afraid of how to tell him about the invite. I'm working constantly on trying not to grieve, but trying to get to a better ME.  Seems that's a heavy page to turn.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Roselee-

It's good to hear from you.  Sounds like you did have an emotional weekend and he continues with his dysregulation; I'm sorry that's happening.

They told me that his house, mostly kitchen was a total mess... .with pot, seeds & stems were all over the kitchen counter... .and cans and stuff all over the kitchen.  Also, when they went upstairs, they found on his dresser what looked to be Meth!  How, friggin ironic! 

Told him he was a total hypocrite, accusing me of doing it, when there he is doing it now.

That's the psychological defense mechanism of projection: he's doing it, he feels it's bad and/or wrong, so accusing you of doing it is a way to offload those feelings onto you so he doesn't have to feel them.  Connection to reality not required.

"Mom... .then this IS him... .it's part of him, you need to stop making excuses for him"  So smart!

She is smart, and correct, we can't differentiate someone from their disorder, it is who they are.

I have to stop thinking of the good things... .so much has happened since then, and remember the feelings of anguish, fear... .that feeling I would get when he would scream at me, the anxiety I would feel if my girlfriend would invite me to stop by after work, or go with her to take our other friend out to lunch for her birthday, how I really would want to go, but afraid of how to tell him about the invite.

That's good.  With time and distance you will develop a more balanced view of him and the relationship, how it was a mix of good and bad, but for now, focusing on all the bad and how it made you feel will give you the motivation and focus to break free.

I'm working constantly on trying not to grieve, but trying to get to a better ME.  Seems that's a heavy page to turn.

Grieving is getting to a better YOU.  You don't get over a 5 1/2 year relationship with a borderline, or any relationship for that matter, in a short time, it takes what it takes, and there are stages of grieving that need to be worked through and emotions processed to detach fully, the only way out is through, and your perception of him, the relationship, and most importantly you, will change through the process.  And you will come out the other side stronger, wiser, fully empowered, and ready to create an amazing life, but first things first.

You safety is still paramount, and as mentioned, act don't react, do what you have to do to ensure it, then you can get on with the project of detachment.  It's good that other people are involved and know what's going on with him, and it's good you've talking with local professionals; you're doing it right Roselee, now just a matter of one foot in front of the other, one day at a time.  Take care of you!

[VitaminC]

Hi Roselee,

I am also glad to hear from you again. Although sorry that you've had such a sad weekend. I'm glad that things are more out in the open now - that more people are involved and know what's going on. I'm relieved that you're not in the same kind of danger at the moment, that I had the feeling you were a few days ago.

I imagine the whole thing feels more real now, although probably also completely surreal - in a different way to before. Don't underestimate the impact something like this can have on you - you've been through a lot the last couple of weeks especially, and you need to keep the focus on you.

I do understand the raging feelings you sound like you're having, it will take a while for that to settle enough for you to begin to get your bearings again. You started here by remembering what a social and interested and easy person you were before and outside of this relationship. Remembering saying you wanted that back?  

I know that after a few weird dramas in my own relationships I literally felt like I'd been beaten up - I mean that I felt so shaken and shaky and confused and somehow not in this world fully. That's stress and the brain trying to process and catch up with events and figure out where to file them and what sense to make of them. I found I had trouble even identifying what I felt a lot of the time, never mind trying to describe or explain it to others.

 
"Mom... .then this IS him... .it's part of him, you need to stop making excuses for him"  So smart!

I agree, very smart.

We make a mistake if we separate an illness (or addiction or habit or propensity) as if people are made up of Lego and we can just remove a block here and there and then have the "real" person.

Did you ever re-pot a plant that had way outgrown the pot it was in? And when you take it out the roots are all tightly bound up and in the shape of the pot with hardly even any soil to separate the mass? Imagine trying to untangle that and take out one thread of root - complete from the plant to the bottom. Im.poss.ible.  

I think people are more like that. Everything is interconnected and the "real" person is very complex system of all the things feeding into each other. You can't just "remove" the BPD  - which is not to say it can't be treated and controlled. It seems that it can. But it's a long road and huge effort and it's better to see reality and say "yes, this is the entire root system on display. If I need to get just one thread out, it's going to take a long time. In the meantime I better be happy with the tangled mass".   If the tangled mass is toxic, it's better to put it outside and not sleep with it next to your bed, no matter how pretty the plant is or how good it smells.  

I have to stop thinking of the good things... .so much has happened since then, and remember the feelings of anguish, fear... .that feeling I would get when he would scream at me, the anxiety I would feel if my girlfriend would invite me to stop by after work, or go with her to take our other friend out to lunch for her birthday, how I really would want to go, but afraid of how to tell him about the invite.

I think we were talking about how bad our memory can be at hanging on to bad stuff, and how dangerous this can be for us because it does not give the whole picture.  It's hard to hang on to the whole when it's seemingly made up of so many contradictory parts - that's the nature of these relationships - there's just no simple narrative.  Even now, I can't summarize my relationship or my part and my process when I talk about it even with good friends who were there throughout it.  Partly because I didn't tell them everything at the time (who could, when there are so many plot twists all the time) and partly because my own understanding has been really fast and each time I figure something out, I go back and reassess something, so the history changes a little all the time.  

To help you detach, you need to do the thing you're less good at - remembering the fear and anxiety, the lack of ease, the lack of trust, the complications caused by the simplest of things - like meeting a girlfriend. That is what helped me to balance out my wilful fantasy with the reality.

I'm working constantly on trying not to grieve, but trying to get to a better ME.  Seems that's a heavy page to turn.

Like   FHTH said, this takes time. "you're doing it right Roselee, now just a matter of one foot in front of the other, one day at a time". You can't rush this part. You can just work on keeping the conditions right for it, day by day, even hour by hour.  Talking and seeking out support is a big help in this.

[Roselee]

WOW... .Really LOVE that analogy of the potted plant!  So perfect!  and the words "The only way out, is through"  Love That!

I did receive an email from him earlier... .very remorseful, acknowledging that he screwed up not only his life but his actions have had major impact on others, family, friends. I knew this stage would come at somepoint, doesn't make it better, but feel better knowing he's not raging still.  He's realizing the bitter sweetness of all the friends and family that have come to his aid and contacted him.  He is fortunate for that. But in his email he did admit that there are still some things that just dont make sense (still in somewhat accusing mode and paranoia).  He knows he needs help and says he is going to see a Doctor.

I responded saying that I was glad for his own peace that he is seeking medical help. And that at this point he needs to focus on getting himself better.  He called me after a while, and I did answer... .looking for my closure with him.  I stated that too much has been said, done, and I now am at a point that I have to focus on me.  He never mentioned at any time us getting back together, and I never led him to believe such.  It was more of a call that I felt he needed to make and I guess I needed to hear, that  he knows he needs help and he really hit bottom.  I told him I am still trying to process this whole thing that has happened.  He still admitted to having a fear that I would kill him.  I tried not to JADE... .and I told him, I wasn't going to defend or explain myself, but just had to put out there that he took a traumatic time in my life and threw it back at me in the worse possible way there ever can be.  That alone was too much for me to process.  A lot of the conversation was him admitting how terrible he acted, and what a disappointment he feels to his family and friends, sons. He cried, he kept saying how sorry he was, and I told him, Im sure you really are sorry... .but I can't be the one to help you with this.  I am trying to heal myself.  I mostly listened and told him good luck with finding the right doctor that will help.
WOW... .as I'm typing this and was just going to say that I'm afraid now that I shouldn't have taken his call, that he may have thought that as an open door for more communication... .he is calling! I'm not going to answer... .I don't want to talk anymore.  Crazy how that turned up twisted feeling can come flooding back in a blink. I won't return his call. (no voicemail... .thank God) I read someone else's posts about them being in a 7 month breakup... .and I thought, wow that would be terrible.  I know I definitely DO NOT want that in any way.
I guess, since there was some kind of communication... .non-fighting kind, he may think that the window has been opened for him.  I don't want to in any way lead him to think that there is a chance.  I was so careful with my words, just telling him, that what I have been through... .I'm still going through, and it will always be there. I purposely didn't want to mislead!  Just wanted to end on a calm note.

[VitaminC]

Sounds like you handled that well, Roselee.

Let me remind you of something, though, ok? Borne out by my own experience and written about on so many posts here.   Please be careful about thinking that what is closure for you is anything like that to him. While it doesn't sound like actual JADEing to me (but I'm not expert, I never got around to trying this in any targeted way myself - I had to get the hell away), what I am hearing from what you described is that you are asking him to take on board that he has wounded you deeply. In one way that's ok, perfectly true and fair enough.

If you are saying it only for your own benefit and for the benefit of "the truth" - that's cool.  If there is even a tiny bit of you that hopes he'll actually understand, take it to heart, extrapolate wider understanding and empathy for you from it, and actually be able to maintain that awareness - I am doubtful.

The way I figured it out to help me understand it, is to imagine a really upset (and guilty) 4 year old. They know they've done wrong, they feel "bad", they feel sorry that everyone is upset with them, they feel alone and fearful that no one loves them. They've learned from their parents that it's correct to say "sorry" in some situations, and so they do that sometimes. Like being reminded:

Parent to kid: "what do you say?"
Kid to parent or other adult or whoever: "thank you".  

Just that. Actual gratitude or regret, the way full adults experience it is not really part of the schema yet. They're just social graces at this point.

BPDs, especially in panic or dysregulation mode, are far closer to that 3 or 4 year old in terms of their emotional response, than they are to adults. And even if they have a few minutes or hours of actually being able to get outside of their own painful emotions to genuinely care about another, it is too hard to stay there. So they don't.

It is definitely a possibility that the good communication you had today, will be seen as a window. It will be up to you to be clear for yourself what your boundaries are (and why you need them! That's the bit I always found I had to remind myself about). It will be up to you to keep them stable and erected, again and again again, for quite a while.

Remember also that someone with BPD really has trouble with shades of grey in relationships ( "I love you, but I can't be with you because it hurts me" - that is an almost impossibly contradictory statement.  pwBPD might have learned that people say that sort of thing, they might even have used the line themselves - but to appreciate the amount of heartbreak and sadness and wisdom and discipline and choice that might have gone into making the statement is a whole other thing.

You've ended on a calm note. For yourself. That is good. Take comfort and strength from that.
 
You need to be very clear in yourself that you want to hold on to that calm and that you will need your boundaries to maintain that.  

Sounds like a productive day overall. You feel ok?

[Roselee]

I re-read that post you sent Vitamin C over and over.  It helped me quite a bit.
He called again last night because he felt the need to let me know how he made out at the foot doctor (an appt made long ago).  We talked again, and again he was very remorseful and disgusted with himself, wishing he could take it all back etc.  Then he said that he thinks he may buy a motorcycle... .the same man that complained about them and the noise and how dangerous they were. I reminded him of that... .and was quite confused with it.
But during the conversation I was trying to understand what happened last week when we were on the phone and having a calm conversation... .and 2 hours later he went off the wall with bazaar accusations. He said that he was high... and it was poison to him and made him nuts. After talking some more, I asked how long ago he and why he bought it (Meth). He was a little sketchy on the time line, but it seemed that it may have been a month ago, and his reason apparently was that if I was using coke... .then who cares. Still having a really hard time trying to understand that one! And my mind keeps replaying all the times he accused me of doing drugs, and accused me of lying... .and here he was doing just that.
He was saying how upset he is about what he did to his family, kids, me, friends. Gave himself a stigma now that he feels won't ever leave. I just told him that I know he will make it right with his family and friends. And when he was talking about the plans he has with buying a motorcycle or getting a hobby... .I stopped myself from giving my usual advise, and told him that I can't hear this right now. I'm very hurt with all this, yes, you are going thru pain, but so am I and it was extended to my kids and friends. He says he is going to see a Doctor. But will he continue the meds? Not sure.  He was saying he misses me and will never get over me, and wishes that everything could go back to how it was in the beginning.

I made the mistake of telling my older daughter about his drug use. And she got very upset, cried, and angry. Saying she never wants to see him again. That she doesn't want to go to school, what if he shows up here at the house. And Mom... .why are you even talking to him?  I felt so low, so awful for her, that I put her through this. I tried to explain that I needed to talk to him so I can know what kind of mindset he is in now. And I also said that in a really twisted way, I almost felt better knowing that it was the drugs that magnified his thoughts... and that he is not like that normally when sober . Granted he is still not rational thinking... .but I'd like to think not to that extent.  However, I did ask when that night that he wouldn't let me leave, if he was doing drugs, he said no.  So I don't know!

So... .this morning he called a couple times... I didn't answer, finally the 3rd time I did, knowing that he wouldn't stop. He started the conversation with: "what, you're not at work?" which I am. then he proceeded to say that I don't need to contact him sister-in-law anymore... he's fine, and that he probably will buy a motorcycle, and get a dog. (I always wanted him to get a dog... .now he is saying its because he needs the company) Then he proceeds to tell me that he wants to see someone else (doesn't sound like he has someone lined up, but who knows), he needs companionship, and doesn't want to be alone. And he does think that I am seeing someone else, and say he thinks he knows who it is,  because he thinks it's "weird" that I haven't really told all my friends about everything.I got upset (crying, again) telling him that I wish I could find the right words, or right way to convince him that there is no one else! I have done this dozens of times!  I told him only 2 of my girlfriends know because that's all I have seen. And I don't announce these things... .I prefer to talk to them on my own.

He wants to meet somewhere in public to have "closure" to talk about the things that he seems to think he needs to hear. I told him that I don't see what that will accomplish at this point. I am not going to sit there and be accused of the same things. If this is what it is for I don't want to go. He assures me that he just needs this because we've been together a long time and he loves me and needs to have this. He offered to have his sister-in-law come. I don't know what to do... .I told him I'd call him back. I don't know if meeting him will make it better and end it or worse. He offered dinner... .I said no... .I just don't think I'd be able to eat anyway.
I have no idea what to do at his point!

[Roselee]

Just so strange! He's sending me pictures of motorcycles, and asking me what one?  The man is a stranger... .I never knew this to be an idea before. He says he's thinking of selling his truck and buying a nice older one straight out, and buying a motorcycle. I don't know if this is a manipulation tactic? Because some of my girlfriend's husbands have motorcycles... .seeing what my reaction would be?  Just second guessing everything he says and does, and I don't like this feeling at all.  I wanted to respond that I wish he was using this much research on finding a doctor. But thought best to keep that one to myself!  I'm supposed to call him back at lunch time, and I just don't know what to say at this point. I almost want to meet him, just to get it over with. I know he will accuse me of being with someone else again... .and I have run out of ways to say that's not true. I even reiterated that to him in my email yesterday... .just to have him bring it up again today. But when I say I'm not answering this anymore... .he sees that as I'm lying. 

[flourdust]

What do you think about going no contact now? It's pretty clear that what you thought was closure has actually turned into ongoing and open-ended engagement. I would suggest sending him a brief message saying that it's best that you both move on with your separate lives, then cease taking any calls or messages from him.

[Roselee]

Well... .I think I may have to get to that point AGAIN.  He is rehashing... .and I don't want to hear it anymore. He even suggested that maybe we can still talk and remain friends.  How the heck is THAT possible? Although, he says he will no longer lash out at my friends husband... .can't be sure of that either.  He keeps asking why he hasn't called him back when he left him a message.  Again... .suspicions!  I guess I have to come right out and say AGAIN, that we spoke... .I can't go this round again, and please don't call me. It's too much. I'm still hurting and very confused!

[VitaminC]

Hi Roselee,

This will keep happening and going round and round until you stop it. And then you will have to keep stopping it, and more importantly, stopping yourself from being guilted or in any other way being dragged back in.

There is no useful discussion that can take place now. Please read the No Contact document again and think about how stopping contact is helpful to you. Are you helping him by taking his calls or promising to return them? Do you think that a few hours break is enough to get you some distance to think? Is it helping you in any way to remain in contact?  I would respectfully suggest no as the answer to all three questions.

You are still very much enmeshed, it could not be any other way, really, and if you want to get to a more balanced place, you'll need to put yourself first.

What would it mean to genuinely put yourself first in the scenarios you've described over the last day or two? Specifically, how would that look for you? What would you do or not do?

[VitaminC]

Hi Roselee,

not to pester you, but just to remind you that there's people here who care about you and your story.   Come back and tell us how things are going for you, if you want to.
We're all still here, in internet land, behind the computer screen

[Roselee]

The past couple days have been a complete roller coaster... .as usual.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong! I've tried not answering any calls or texts.  Then we he begs to just talk, we have an adult conversation and he understands, then the next day he is off again... .same ole rehashing of how I never really loved him anyway, and I probably have someone else.
My girls were leaving this weekend to go back to College, so I took a 1/2 day on Friday for us to go shopping and go out to dinner.  The day prior he was in a very emotional remorseful state, didn't go to work, and claimed that everything I had said I was right, that now he sees the bigger picture and feels awful for all he's done.  Called my girlfriends husband again and they spoke and he apologized and made it all good there. I was explaining to him, that I am at a point that I can't go back, because I am afraid that he will cycle right back again. He kept saying he misses me, loves me, asking if I miss him. I told him, I don't miss this.  I keep telling him that I can't talk about the same stuff anymore... .I'm done.  He was understanding and said he would leave me alone, only to call again the next day, I mentioned that I was taking a 1/2 day & we had a lot to get done & that my daughter needed to renew her passport for school... .then he started asking questions about that... .and although he knew about this a year ago, I re-explained why she was traveling for school, then I heard him change, just like that, asking if I was going too... .and then just going from there. I started to get frustrated, couldn't believe he was going on about this. He says ok fine... .I won't bother you.  Only to start calling my phone every 15 minutes... .over and over and over... .the whole time shopping and when we went to dinner. Leaving the same stupid voicemails that I never cared, and rehashing stuff about that time I went to the Dr with my daughter... .who was really with us?  Crazy crap again.  I finally turned my phone off.  The next morning at 7:00 am... .he starts calling again... .I decide to answer because I don't want to go thru the whole day of his harassing calls.  He's upset, sounded like he had been crying, and is back to remorseful.  I told him that what he did the day before was exactly what the problem is.  I said I had 17 missed calls, and the messages that he did leave made no sense... .and was the same crap that I don't want to hear anymore.  I told him I just want to be left alone.  He understood and said ok.
The next morning, my girls and I are packing their stuff to head to their college, and he leaves a remorseful sounding message saying that we cannot get back together, good luck and have a nice life.  OK... .fine... .I was never asking to get back together!  Then during the day, I rec'd sexual text messages... .wth?  I didn't respond.  Then later saying how much he ate for dinner... .again I didn't respond.  Last night, my phone starts ringing, the usual, over and over and over... .I finally answer to hopefully put a stop to it all. Just to hear the attitude in his voice again. Saying how rude it was that I didn't answer him today.  I explained that I rec'd voice mail saying he understood we were done, then I get weird sexual texts, and what he had for dinner during the day... .how am I supposed to respond to any of that. He got offended that I said they were weird.  Anyway, he started spiraling, and I told him I was turning off my phone for the night, and didn't want to talk to him anymore. He was calling me a player... .how I f'd up his mind. Now I have all my ducks in a row cause I have the house all to myself. same ole stuff.
This morning recycle back to remorseful man. How he loves me... .he will show me. He misses me.
I don't know how else to explain to him that I can't do this anymore.  I've never misled him. Never told him that I love him or miss him since this whole fiasco started.  I want to block him, but I'm afraid of not knowing his state of mind, and then he may just show up at my house. When I don't answer, he then blames me for his wild thoughts... .saying what else should he think, if I'm not answering him... .then I'm busy with someone else.
He is now on meds for anxiety that he's prescribed to take 2x a day.  I'm hoping that they will take effect quickly... .rather than the couple weeks. 
I'm a nervous wreck about this coming holiday weekend.  I know he is going to want to see me, and I don't want to. I have explained that.  I'm afraid that I am going to be spending a weekend of high stress, scared to look at my phone, and worried that it will just be ringing over and over and over, and then he will say he's coming over.  I have read the tactics on what to do... .I guess at this point I have to really hold steady, and regardless of what his messages say... remorseful or not, just not answer or respond... .even if I do get 17+ calls and countless texts. I'm just very alone at this point, and he knows that, and  he sees that as me having time to do whatever I want with whomever.  When he is in a rational cycle, he understands, when he's not, I'm getting blamed for it all, for why he is like the way he is, why he can't work and not make any money. All my doing. Ignoring his calls doesn't seem to work... .although I only ignored the first 18-20 or so, then I would text back telling him to stop and let me be. That would make him subside. I certainly can't keep my phone turned off... .in case my kids need to get in touch with me.  I have tried to be nice & explain, tried no contact. I just don't know the words to get him to understand calmly that I can't see this ever working out... .too much has happened, and I will always be on edge. Although I will miss what we had, once upon a time ago, how he could be very generous, and giving, I won't one bit miss this side of him... .which is the side I am seeing most of the time. I've told him to focus on getting himself better, but I guess he thinks he can't do so without me being there as well. I'm just so drained! Again

[Roselee]

Vitamin C... .for the record... .I so appreciate you reaching out to me... .definitely NOT pestering!  I am the one that feels pathetic... .with my same on going saga. I knew this would be difficult... .just never so intensely & emotionally difficult. You all warned me... .but I thought it would get better, and every day it's different. So... .thank you for reading... .I would be a real mess if you guys out in internet land weren't reading and guiding!

[VitaminC]

Hi Roselee,

I'm glad to hear from you again!

The past couple days have been a complete roller coaster... .as usual.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong!

To me it seems that what you're doing "wrong" is that you are expecting him to really understand, accept what you say, and for that to last more than a few hours.

I've tried not answering any calls or texts.  Then we he begs to just talk, we have an adult conversation and he understands, then the next day he is off again... .

This sounds quite typical in a way - he is panicky and flipping from one mode (understanding, mature) to another (needy), to another (angry, accusing) and so on.

I started to get frustrated, couldn't believe he was going on about this. He says ok fine... .I won't bother you.  Only to start calling my phone every 15 minutes... .over and over and over... .

It does not seem he is going to be able to respect your boundary: your stated wish to not be called / contacted.

Crazy crap again.  I finally turned my phone off.  The next morning at 7:00 am... .he starts calling again... .I decide to answer because I don't want to go thru the whole day of his harassing calls.  He's upset, sounded like he had been crying, and is back to remorseful. 

Turning your phone off is one solution, but as you can see, the effect is temporary. And, as you point out, you can't keep your phone turned off because you have other people in your life who may want or need to contact you.

I told him I just want to be left alone.  He understood and said ok.
The next morning, my girls and I are packing their stuff to head to their college, and he leaves a remorseful sounding message saying that we cannot get back together, good luck and have a nice life. 

Your wish is simple and justified. You have stated time and again that you need to be left alone. He is not able to maintain himself, to soothe himself, without reaching out to you in constantly changing modes.

Anyway, he started spiraling, and I told him I was turning off my phone for the night, and didn't want to talk to him anymore. He was calling me a player... .how I f'd up his mind.

And then he became angry and accusing again.

This morning recycle back to remorseful man. How he loves me... .he will show me. He misses me.

I think we see the pattern

I don't know how else to explain to him that I can't do this anymore. 

Your explanation is fine. That is not the issue.  The issue is his understanding, accepting, and holding to your stated wish to be left alone.

I'm a nervous wreck about this coming holiday weekend.  I know he is going to want to see me, and I don't want to. I have explained that.  I'm afraid that I am going to be spending a weekend of high stress, scared to look at my phone, and worried that it will just be ringing over and over and over, and then he will say he's coming over. 

The solution seems to be either to keep your phone turned off, or to block his calls and messages.
 

I'm just very alone at this point, and he knows that, and  he sees that as me having time to do whatever I want with whomever. 

In what way are you alone? You mean physically because your daughters aren't around? Are there friends who you can spend time with or even go and stay with over the weekend?

Ignoring his calls doesn't seem to work... .although I only ignored the first 18-20 or so, then I would text back telling him to stop and let me be.

No, ignoring them will not work because he knows that eventually you *will* pick up.

 I have tried to be nice & explain, tried no contact. I just don't know the words to get him to understand calmly that I can't see this ever working out... .

Explanations are not working. Brief periods of No Contact are not working.   Your words are not the problem, nor is your calm approach. That would work with someone who has emotional maturity and stability. That is not what a person with BPD has.

You might try the following, and perhaps other members will chime in again with their own experience and tips:

1) tell him one last time that you will not be answering his calls or messages
2) tell him that you will contact him in 10 days (this will give him something to hang on to to encourage him to respect your boundary , and give you much needed peace)  --- I am not sure about this, let's see what others say ?
3) block his number
4) try to not be alone over the weekend - be ready to call for help if he should arrive unannounced at your home - do not allow him entry - do not engage in further discussion

Keep your conversation with him brief and to the point. Tell him "I will now hang up, take care of yourself" and then hang up

Is it possibly useful for you to contact the helpline that you did before and ask them for ideas and how to deal?

You can do this! 

[flourdust]

1) tell him one last time that you will not be answering his calls or messages
2) tell him that you will contact him in 10 days (this will give him something to hang on to to encourage him to respect your boundary , and give you much needed peace)  --- I am not sure about this, let's see what others say ?
3) block his number
4) try to not be alone over the weekend - be ready to call for help if he should arrive unannounced at your home - do not allow him entry - do not engage in further discussion

Generally good advice -- I would skip step 2, as dysregulated BPD doesn't really do delayed gratification.

I would add that you should contact your police department to let them know that you have this angry ex/stalker problem. This will put him on their radar, which may be handy if you need to make a 911 call when he makes an unwelcome appearance. The police may also have advice/instructions for you.

[Roselee]

Very good advice steps!  I guess I will be at that point to possibly block his number should he continue to contact me. I'm just very nervous of the backlash of that. So nervous that he will contact my friends again.  Although, he promised and swore that he would never do that again... .he already feels like a "freak"... .but on the other hand, I feel that he will think... ."who cares, they already think I'm a freak".  My goal is to stay strong with No Contact! I truly hate that feeling I get in my gut when I see my phone ringing and it's him... .or every time I receive a text, I there's that surge in my gut. That's not a way of life!  That sensitive, and emotional, forgiving part of my brain... .needs to be shut off.  I am in a constant reminder mode to myself of the hurt and anxiety he has caused me... .I keep re-reading his texts & voice mails as a reminder... .from just a couple days ago even... .that still make no sense to me. Even after we had conversation about how he doesn't mean the stuff he says, and he won't do that anymore. Didn't take long for him to cycle from logical to bad.
I am looking to find something to do with myself this weekend.  Take my dog, and go for a ride somewhere.  I have friends around... .but they have husbands and lives... .they don't need my added drama. And frankly, I'm still too embarrassed.  There are only 2 of my girlfriends who know that I have been down this road before... .and the emotional and verbal abuse I have received.  My other friends have seen him as this fun, funny, generous guy.  I don't think I can fully go into the details of how bad it has been. So, I will keep it light with them for now.
I have been through a divorce, a death of a boyfriend... .but this seems so much harder. I guess because I'm older, and I feel that this isn't how my life is supposed to be at this point. One day at a time! It just has to get better!

[Meili]

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