Possible reason why pwBPD will never be in a long-lasting relationship

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was thinking about something last night and it seems like almost everyone here can attest to the fact that their BPD ex has a track record of not being able to maintain long-term relationships and many see these people continuing this same cycle once they are done with us.

The well known cycle of idealize/love-bomb, devalue & discard is something that probably all of us have experienced. For me, going into the relationship with my ex & not knowing what BPD was and just assuming that her past relationships all ended after around the same amount of time because she hadn't found the right person, the love-bombing was an incredible feeling and I attributed it to truly being in love with someone for the first time. Of course, now having been through the entire cycle, I understand what was really going on but that doesn't change how real things felt at the time and I'm sure many can relate, especially if you were like me and had no idea what BPD was. Now having a better understanding of this and knowing that my ex is most likely putting another man through this same cycle as we speak, I started to think about this from somewhat of an analytical perspective.

The below is not scientific at all and simply just my own view of how a relationship between 2 non-disordered people plays out in regards to how emotionally intense the connection is over time.



From personal experience and through witnessing the "normal" relationships of others, this to me portrays how emotionally intense things are over time. There's the "getting to know each other" phase where things start slowly and build up to more of the typical human infatuation or "honeymoon" phase. The honeymoon phase is the peak of emotional intensity and if the 2 people have created an actual mature love-bond between each other, things will start to mellow out and even off as time goes on, I hope that makes sense.

Now, also from experience, here is the same graph with the same x/y axis but for a relationship with a pwBPD.



As you can see, things heat up much more quickly and with much more intensity as compared to a "normal" relationship. Love-bombing and idealization can really create (in my opinion) almost a euphoric existence where you feel like you're on top of the world. This will be reinforced by the pwBPD quickly telling you they love you, constantly heaping compliments on you and always talking about how you're going to get married, have a family, grow old together etc. This state of (per my graph) 100% emotional intensity is able to be kept up for a while depending on how long the pwBPD chooses for it to last or if they are trying to get something out of you. Then, you can see where the devaluation and eventual discard happens - this is when we see them flip a switch from being head over heels in love with you to seemingly despising you or not even caring about your existence. Please let me know if these charts make sense with what I am trying to portray here.

My thought is, that by continually repeating this cycle with numerous people, the below phase:



Eventually takes a major toll on the pwBPD for a few reasons. First, I think that so many occurrences of having such an incredibly emotionally intense bond with someone for any amount of time burns them out as their life goes on just due to the magnitude of powerful thoughts/feelings behind this and how much energy it takes to live this way. Secondly, while they are seemingly able to place anyone on a pedestal temporarily and idealize them to the point where their fairy tale comes true, this always eventually fails and I feel like there is a small glimpse of reality in their head that eventually starts to indicate to them that no human being can live up to the fantasy that they've created for their life. I believe that these 2 things are some of the primary reasons why we see pwBPD continually cycling through relationships with a trail of destruction behind them. It's almost as if they're casting a role in a fairy tale love story and every person they hire for the role is eventually cut yet the fantasy still lives on in their head, only to be temporarily fulfilled by one person after another forever.

I hope this isn't a stupid topic, just some stuff that was going through my mind today, interested to hear others' thoughts on this.

[pjstock42]

I was thinking about something last night and it seems like almost everyone here can attest to the fact that their BPD ex has a track record of not being able to maintain long-term relationships and many see these people continuing this same cycle once they are done with us.

The well known cycle of idealize/love-bomb, devalue & discard is something that probably all of us have experienced. For me, going into the relationship with my ex & not knowing what BPD was and just assuming that her past relationships all ended after around the same amount of time because she hadn't found the right person, the love-bombing was an incredible feeling and I attributed it to truly being in love with someone for the first time. Of course, now having been through the entire cycle, I understand what was really going on but that doesn't change how real things felt at the time and I'm sure many can relate, especially if you were like me and had no idea what BPD was. Now having a better understanding of this and knowing that my ex is most likely putting another man through this same cycle as we speak, I started to think about this from somewhat of an analytical perspective.

The below is not scientific at all and simply just my own view of how a relationship between 2 non-disordered people plays out in regards to how emotionally intense the connection is over time.



From personal experience and through witnessing the "normal" relationships of others, this to me portrays how emotionally intense things are over time. There's the "getting to know each other" phase where things start slowly and build up to more of the typical human infatuation or "honeymoon" phase. The honeymoon phase is the peak of emotional intensity and if the 2 people have created an actual mature love-bond between each other, things will start to mellow out and even off as time goes on, I hope that makes sense.

Now, also from experience, here is the same graph with the same x/y axis but for a relationship with a pwBPD.



As you can see, things heat up much more quickly and with much more intensity as compared to a "normal" relationship. Love-bombing and idealization can really create (in my opinion) almost a euphoric existence where you feel like you're on top of the world. This will be reinforced by the pwBPD quickly telling you they love you, constantly heaping compliments on you and always talking about how you're going to get married, have a family, grow old together etc. This state of (per my graph) 100% emotional intensity is able to be kept up for a while depending on how long the pwBPD chooses for it to last or if they are trying to get something out of you. Then, you can see where the devaluation and eventual discard happens - this is when we see them flip a switch from being head over heels in love with you to seemingly despising you or not even caring about your existence. Please let me know if these charts make sense with what I am trying to portray here.

My thought is, that by continually repeating this cycle with numerous people, the below phase:



Eventually takes a major toll on the pwBPD for a few reasons. First, I think that so many occurrences of having such an incredibly emotionally intense bond with someone for any amount of time burns them out as their life goes on just due to the magnitude of powerful thoughts/feelings behind this and how much energy it takes to live this way. Secondly, while they are seemingly able to place anyone on a pedestal temporarily and idealize them to the point where their fairy tale comes true, this always eventually fails and I feel like there is a small glimpse of reality in their head that eventually starts to indicate to them that no human being can live up to the fantasy that they've created for their life. I believe that these 2 things are some of the primary reasons why we see pwBPD continually cycling through relationships with a trail of destruction behind them. It's almost as if they're casting a role in a fairy tale love story and every person they hire for the role is eventually cut yet the fantasy still lives on in their head, only to be temporarily fulfilled by one person after another forever.

I hope this isn't a stupid topic, just some stuff that was going through my mind today, interested to hear others' thoughts on this.

[eprogeny]

From personal experience and through witnessing the "normal" relationships of others, this to me portrays how emotionally intense things are over time. There's the "getting to know each other" phase where things start slowly and build up to more of the typical human infatuation or "honeymoon" phase. The honeymoon phase is the peak of emotional intensity and if the 2 people have created an actual mature love-bond between each other, things will start to mellow out and even off as time goes on, I hope that makes sense.

It does, and I agree completely.

Please let me know if these charts make sense with what I am trying to portray here.

Yes, the charts make sense.

First, I think that so many occurrences of having such an incredibly emotionally intense bond with someone for any amount of time burns them out as their life goes on just due to the magnitude of powerful thoughts/feelings behind this and how much energy it takes to live this way.

I don't know if I can relate to that.  I think that "high" is the only thing that they live for, to be honest.  It's what gives them a sense of worth - and the non-high points are what they desperately are trying to not feel, so it's the effort to avoid those low points, rather than being in the high points, that I think are what burn them out.   

Secondly, while they are seemingly able to place anyone on a pedestal temporarily and idealize them to the point where their fairy tale comes true, this always eventually fails and I feel like there is a small glimpse of reality in their head that eventually starts to indicate to them that no human being can live up to the fantasy that they've created for their life.

Honestly, I think they actually believe each person is, in fact, their fairy tale too-good-to-be-true person.  And then they find out they were wrong (devaluation) and they move on to the next person.  I don't think one iota of reality comes into play for them at all, because I don't believe they are capable of having a realistic perspective of themselves or others.  If they were, none of this would happen for them.

I believe that these 2 things are some of the primary reasons why we see pwBPD continually cycling through relationships with a trail of destruction behind them. It's almost as if they're casting a role in a fairy tale love story and every person they hire for the role is eventually cut yet the fantasy still lives on in their head, only to be temporarily fulfilled by one person after another forever.

While I don't know that the previous points are accurate, I think this last one is spot on.  They do cycle through people leaving a wake of destruction behind them - and they absolutely do it as if they are casting a role in a fairy tale.  They do literally try a person out in the role and hire them for it - even when the role is just an experiment.  And they will do it over and over and over believing each person will be the one who will make them feel whole, and worthwhile, and will dissolve all their emotional chaos. 

I think that is why they do it, and I think the only reason they do it is because they want those delusional results to be the reality when that never can be.  The only thing that can help them is to recover from their BPD - at which point the epic fantasies aren't in play anymore and the cycle of their pursuit for that delusional reality ends.

I hope this isn't a stupid topic, just some stuff that was going through my mind today, interested to hear others' thoughts on this.

Not stupid in the slightest.  It seems to me very much a method of trying to find a logic to their behavior.   

To be honest, the only logic I have found is that everything they say and do has the exact opposite meaning and purpose from what it would have for a non-BPD person.  It isn't always a correct assessment to think of it that way, but it's a lot more correct than anything else I've tried. :D

[Indifferent28]

I second this part of what eprogeny said "I don't know if I can relate to that.  I think that "high" is the only thing that they live for, to be honest.  It's what gives them a sense of worth"

My ex began to panic when the constant infatuation/honeymoon stage wore off. When i explained to her that was normal in a long term relationship, she "refused" to believe it and said she wanted it.

Her behavior after we broke up shows she WAS after that high. Not just with relationships (though that was the primary one) but also other adrenaline highs... .Seeking everything new and novelty. Partying when she didnt before, drinking constantly, trying to get high for the first time, wearing different clothes, surrounding herself with new people, moving out on her own (now with the replacement), hated kids now took on the parental role of her girlfriends child.

It seems like they seek highs in all areas. When the high wears off and they actually feel what it SHOULD feel like/normal states of things, they panic thinking someone or some activity is losing interest in them or they're becoming less interested in them.

[Pretty Woman]

This is a very thought provoking post, thank you for sharing this with us... .

What is interesting is I truly believe the BPD is always chasing that high. These are very addictive personalities. Mine was a sex addict, gambler and former drug addict. They lack impulse control and everything seems to swing to extremes... .highs and lows.

I have been struggling because my ex is now living with my replacement.  We were together 4yrs and never lived together. In my gut I stopped trusting her and couldn't allow that to happen.

When I look at the patterns my ex cheated on almost every ex (with the exception of those who left her first). She bounced back and forth between exes and still has some in rotation.

It's a never ending cycle of misery. After awhile you start to feel sorry for them. We can move on. They are stuck. It truly is a sad existence.

[pjstock42]

Well it seems like the general consensus is that I was way off on how the thrill of the "high" affects them  . Thank you to everyone for your input and I think what you have said does make sense when I apply it to my exes history. Outside of always going for new men, she was also always jumping into new careers, new fields of study along with repeatedly moving from country to country to seek out something new and exciting.

One thing that I found odd was that when we were together, she was a very routine-oriented person which to me goes against the impulsivity aspect of all of this. When I'd ask her what she wanted to do on the weekend, she would always pick the same things and even say something like "I hope that's not too boring since we always do that!" so subconsciously I came to see her as more of a stable person who stuck to familiar patters rather than always seeking a new thrill. However; in her painting to black email she did accuse me of being too boring and not doing exciting things so maybe she was just mirroring me in the good times because I am a person of habit? Either way, she is an individual and not all individuals will act exactly the same regardless of this disorder so I have to keep that in mind.

[gotbushels]

Hi pjstock42 

I hope this isn't a stupid topic, just some stuff that was going through my mind today, interested to hear others' thoughts on this.

Nope. I think it's a very good topic. 

eprogeny, I've seen this sort of thing said before:

I don't think one iota of reality comes into play for them at all, because I don't believe they are capable of having a realistic perspective of themselves or others. 

I don't think it's fair to say that not one iota of reality factors into their mind. I think that's important to recall because one or two other members seem to shrug off all connection that the pwBPD has with reality. The fact is that non-to-pwBPD behaviours require no fewer than two people. Yes, early on, to make a sort of zero-reality "object" out of the pwBPD makes things far simpler to work from, and I've done it too, but it obscures the interactive aspects.

Example 1
Object + human = "problems" all from the object... .moving on is easy.
Example 2
Human + human = who was the absorber/caretaker, and why did those roles emerge?

I think the second part is very helpful in understanding how a pwBPD may work compared to ourselves or supposedly more "normal" people. Thoughts like this led me to questioning the existence of the relationship much more accessible. It helped me a lot with detachment.

[enlighten me]

One thing I would say is that if you expand the chart over multiple relationships and say all partners where equal in every way then the high point would progressively get lower.

They will never get the initial high again just like a drug user that ups their dosage to reach it.

[gotbushels]

One thing that I found odd was that when we were together, she was a very routine-oriented person which to me goes against the impulsivity aspect of all of this. When I'd ask her what she wanted to do on the weekend, she would always pick the same things and even say something like "I hope that's not too boring since we always do that!" (... .)

I want to relate to this. I too found it confusing when putting consistency in contrast to the crazy sort of impulsivity she was capable of in her personal life. You're not alone here.

I found it odd that my ex was generally very good at sticking to her job schedules and its changes. I found it odd and more disconcerting when looking at the whole. It hid that there was something very disordered in the parts of her life away from her work life. How can someone so organised at a changing work schedule be this disorganised at her thinking in her intimate life? Before I found out about BPD, I generally assumed these things had some sort of close relationship. Big mistake.    It's sometimes difficult reconciling how impulsivity and consistency can have two speeds. Birds of a feather, one flocks not together? Misidentified the spoonbill amongst the flamingos? Inappropriate expectations?

[eprogeny]

I don't think it's fair to say that not one iota of reality factors into their mind. I think that's important to recall because one or two other members seem to shrug off all connection that the pwBPD has with reality. The fact is that non-to-pwBPD behaviours require no fewer than two people. Yes, early on, to make a sort of zero-reality "object" out of the pwBPD makes things far simpler to work from, and I've done it too, but it obscures the interactive aspects.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.  And I certainly hope you're not taking my statement to be an absolute for all aspects of a BPD person's life.  I'm certainly aware that they can dress themselves and such.   I was speaking about their self-perspective and their perspective of others specifically within the context of the OP's context - one in which the BPD person is actively engaged in a non-recovery path.  I sincerely do not believe such individuals are capable of reality in that context - if they were, they wouldn't be in that context.

It isn't that I'm forced into a black and white understanding in order to cope with detachment.  It is my contention, although I've never known it on a personal level, that a successful post-recovery BPD person is very much able to be rooted in reality - with tools to help manage their symptoms so they can stay there, but that a pre-recovery BPD person lacks that ability and thus spirals off into all the known behavior patterns.

[Rayban]

How do they justify the numerous relationships? Do they just think they are extremely unlucky and haven't found Mr. Or Mrs. right?

My ex would go from dating, younger to older, men to women etc. She would change group.  Never ever looked at the common denominator.  That would be to real for her.

[Indifferent28]

Its weird how some people here, their exes have many different short term relationships.

My ex has had quite a few relationships, serial dating one after the other.
Almost all of them were long term though, as in years.

Her and i dated the longest, 5 years.
But she had exes before me for years.

Her shortest was about 7 months I think, and that was the ex right before me.

They all seem to be in a different category of BPD.

[Pretty Woman]

Rayban, sexual fluidity is VERY common in BPD. It allows them more options, more people to jump to.

I think we try to think like a person with the disorder. It's like trying to rationalize with the irrational... .it's pointless. I don't think we will ever know fully what they are going through and that's a very good thing!

All the people, the older men, young women, old women... .all they are and all we really were is supply.  It hurts because they meant more than that to us... .

however we are not disordered.

[C.Stein]

The seeking of the "high" may certainly be true for some.  BPD is a spectrum disorder and the manifestations of the disorder will change from person to person.  Everyone is an individual and while there may be many similarities between our respective ex's there are just as many dissimilarities. 

That said I'll offer a different perspective on "chasing the high".  For someone who seeks to define themselves externally they continuously need a fresh canvas to work with.  As they attempt to paint the fantasy it eventually starts to become a self-portrait of their true selves instead of the fantasy they want to believe in.  The more "real" the painting becomes the more desire there is to throw it away and get a fresh canvas.  The problem here is the failure to realize it is not the canvas but rather the paint that is tainted and for that reason the cycle will continue until they realize the paint needs to be replaced.

[enlighten me]

I also see it differently. Yes some may chase the high. My opinion is that every new relationship has the potential to be the one. That magical relationship where everything is perfect. In the begining it is. They cant see our flaws and were on our best behaviour.

Then reality creeps in. Were late home from work or we dont reply to a text straight away. Little things that to them make them believe theyre not as important to us as they thought they were. Then they start to notice our flaws. Because of their mood change more and more become apparent. We are not who they thought we were. We lied to them. We conned them. Until eventually we are devalued.

They find someone else. They are perfect and so the cycle continues.

Occasionally they will wonder if we were as bad as they thought. Hence recycles. Itdoesnt take long though for all those little things that caused doubt to spring up again hence the discard normally being quicker on a recycle.

[Pretty Woman]

Enlighten Me has a great point.

A few years ago my ex dumped me for an ex she dated about five years prior. All of a sudden this woman started visiting... .from another state. I had thought they were friends again... .I had no idea she was being groomed as my replacement. When she came down to visit she was very cold. I now realize she was "rescuing" my ex.

Fast forward a few weeks later and I was dumped because I was too tired from work to go out to dinner (seriously). She immediately drove out to be with this woman... .took a week vacation to do so. On the way back she called me over 150 times. I am not kidding. She showed up on my doorstep begging me to take her back... .which I stupidly did. The best part is a week later she told me what made her not want to be with this woman was watching her brush her hair. It annoyed her so much she was disgusted and couldn't even look at her. This, the woman she told me was "her soulmate" the "one who got away" a week earlier as she threatened to file a restraining order against me. 

I can see how insane this is NOW. Then, I thought I lost the ability to communicate. Nothing made sense.

Now I realize it never will. None of this was normal.

[myself]

Then they start to notice our flaws.

I agree with what you were saying, for sure.

And would add another take:

When WE start to notice THEIR flaws, it also changes for the worse.
Once it's known that someone's seen behind the 'mask', it's very disrupting.
Much projection, damage, disappearing, juggling of illusions, etc.

[enlighten me]

I agree myself.

Things pick up speed when we see flaws in them aswell.

We expect people to have off days though. With my ex wife I was dumped out of the blue like a lot of people here. We can be devalued without even realising it. Not all BPD relationships are the rollercoasters of turmoil. Sure we had some problems but nothing that stood out. My exgf cheated on me quite early in our relationship. I found outnearly two years later when we split up that she had told her ex friend we were over more than a year before the split.

Little things like correcting them on something or calling them out on something which may seem insignificant to us are a lot bigger for a pwBPD and they can harbour resentment for it.

[rfriesen]

Well it seems like the general consensus is that I was way off on how the thrill of the "high" affects them  . 

Actually, I tend to agree with you on this point. Of course, this is based only on my one experience with a pwBPD and I don't know how well the point generalises. In any case, when things were falling apart with my ex, she would often say things like, "Oh god, I don't want to have to go there with someone else. I don't want to have to build this emotional connection with someone else. I don't want to have sex like this with someone else. I don't want to look at someone else like this."

Now, granted many of us here have heard these kinds of pleas that pull us back in with their sincere-in-the-moment tenderness and heartfelt longing (which can quickly turn into a you're-going-to-pay-for-the-pain-I-felt part of a push/pull cycle). But I think that in the moment my ex was saying them, they were mostly sincere -- certainly the intensity with which she expressed her desperation was real in the moment. Yes, she was dreading the emotional lows associated with losing an attachment, but she was also remembering the intense highs and seemed to hate the idea of having to shift that to yet another person. As others have noted, many of us feel that our exes truly believe the fairy tale each time. My ex seemed to dread the idea of having to recreate it again. I'm sure once she manages to do so, she'll ride the high as long as possible, but I do think creating that intense high over and over again takes its toll. And I know my ex had enough self-awareness to reflect on it at times and sense she wasn't going about relationships quite right. She admitted she dreaded being alone and never stayed single more than a few days. She told me, "I think I'm really good at forgetting the bad times, and moving on. I guess the downside is that I probably never learn from my mistakes. haha"

I started to see right through those kinds of giggles and laughs by the end. There's a lot of pain lurking in some of her "haha"s and ""s. Still manages to break my heart when I think about it.

This state of (per my graph) 100% emotional intensity is able to be kept up for a while depending on how long the pwBPD chooses for it to last or if they are trying to get something out of you.

Here's where maybe I disagree -- again, based just on my own experience. I don't think my ex can "choose" when her suspicions and jealousies start to get the better of her. She can't choose when to explode in rage and when not to. She became increasingly jealous, angry, suspicious, and desperate as the relationship wore on, and really I don't think she chose any of that. I know it played out differently with you, since your ex just sprang a cruel sudden departure on you. But maybe she had a lot of things playing out in her own head that she couldn't choose to have play out or not. As I've said before, I don't mean that to excuse her actions or minimise their cruelty. I just wonder how much of a choice she might have had over how things ultimately played out or over how long she could maintain the facade.

[rfriesen]

When WE start to notice THEIR flaws, it also changes for the worse.
Once it's known that someone's seen behind the 'mask', it's very disrupting.
Much projection, damage, disappearing, juggling of illusions, etc.

I couldn't agree with this more. Once the idealisation broke for me, all the anxiety and stress that I had been holding back suddenly started pouring out of me and literally gripped me physically. I've never felt so tight throughout my chest and abs, and it didn't let go for weeks. This was accompanied by a radical change in the way I saw my ex, and I just couldn't look at her the same. Yup, just like seeing behind the mask and not being able to un-see that.

We had a couple of more visits/mini-recycles during that stage, before I finally understood I had to just end things as gently as possible and stick to my decision. And those visits ... .just everything was off. The chemistry wasn't the same -- only in short bursts could we recreate the idealisation and the old manic highs.

That actually really opened my eyes to the extent of the role I played in creating and maintaining the unsustainable idealisation and intense emotional/physical highs of the relationship. I feel in some ways I'm still only just beginning to process it, almost six months out from the final break-up.

[enlighten me]

Pj even though I have my opinion of how a BPD relationship unfolds I still agree with you that they are chasing that high. The high in my opinion is the idolisation fantasy stage of finding the perfect partner.

Im a firm believer that BPD is an actual physical thing. Differences in the brain which will result in differences in the brain chemistry and how things like hormones are handled. The idolisation phase produces a chemical reaction with the release of serotonin and oxytocin. I believe that this somehow counters other chemical processes that lead to the more destructive BPD behaviour.

It is only a theory but when the pwBPD is going through a period of normality they seem to have to shake things up be it conflict or another love interest. Could it be that tgeir normal body chemistry is out of whack or not tollerable to their brain differences? Arguing and fighting seem to produce periods of calm but not as much as the idolisation phase. Just a thought.

[gotbushels]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.  And I certainly hope you're not taking my statement to be an absolute for all aspects of a BPD person's life.  I'm certainly aware that they can dress themselves and such.  

Yes, I didn't understand that to be your meaning.  To clarify, I didn't extend this generalisation to the entirety of the pwBPD's behaviours.

I was speaking about their self-perspective and their perspective of others specifically within the context of the OP's context - one in which the BPD person is actively engaged in a non-recovery path.  I sincerely do not believe such individuals are capable of reality in that context - if they were, they wouldn't be in that context.

Ok. That makes sense. Sometimes they are shut from reality in terms of self and perception of other's selves. I agree.

What I meant was to follow on from pjstock42's statement. The statement that some pwBPDs put partners on the pedestal, then put them in the gutter. That process pjstock42 describes where idealisation "always eventually fails".

What I meant was that this process usually involves some amount of dysregulation by the pwBPD. This process often involves large amounts of arguments between the non and the pwBPD. The root of a chain of dysregulation will often find itself in reality. Their feelings often come from something real. I agree that these are times when the argument's chains seem so far beyond reality that it's easy to say they have complete disconnect from reality. I'm sure I've thought "B.S." to her reasoning in totality dozens of times in these arguments. But I'd consider that a complete disconnect isn't the case.

For example, points of argument in a chain can come from their (1) feelings or their (2) childhood, which are both real. The cause may make no obvious sense to you and I, but this doesn't change the fact that what they feel is real. (1) and (2) are both a part of reality. Whether the non wants to dig to find this causality is their own right. Anyway, digging or not, nons are encouraged to be aware that there are sometimes grains of truth in these episodes.

It isn't that I'm forced into a black and white understanding in order to cope with detachment. 

I wasn't saying that you were eprogeny (hence "one or two other members". That comment of mine was to balance the idea for the others reading.  No roundabout indication or disagreement from me here.

Good discussion. 

[pjstock42]

rfriesen,

I often wonder if we dated the same woman hah.

enlighten me,

You make a good point about instigating arguments / conflict seemingly creating a sense of calm for them. As the relationship with my ex progressed, she was constantly trying to provoke me into arguments and it only worked maybe 2/3 times because I'm a very laid-back and conflict averse person. I did notice that whenever I did engage her in this, that the next few days or so would see her in a sense of tranquility and satisfaction. I wonder if it eventually drove her crazy that she couldn't provoke me to be combative with her at her will?

I also agree about the discovery of their flaws causing a great deal of turmoil for them. I was always open and honest from day 1 so there were very few instances where she found something out about me that she didn't already know, whereas it seemed like every few weeks I would discover something about her that was new and could be seen as undesirable. I didn't think much of it because I know that every person has their flaws but I'm now realizing that me discovering these things was so difficult for her because it broke the perfect good-girl image that she was projecting to me. It's sad because she'll never understand how I truly didn't judge her / see her differently because of these things as I was only concerned with who she was at the time and who she would be in the future but no sense in ruminating over that I suppose.