Someone please talk me off the ledge...

[RDMercer55]

I posted my story in another thread and I will quote it down below if you need more background... .

Besides all of the gas-lighting and false story/chat reconstructions that my wife is trapped in, there is another MAJOR work issue that arisen... .If you read my story you know that I am a Pastor... .For almost 2 years now my wife has accused my Admin (female) of being up to no good and grossing boundaries... .There are just too many scenarios and ridiculous stories to share that in her mind have been over inflated and then turned against me as she desperately needs someone to blame. A few weeks ago, I finally snapped... .She was wanting to confront my Admin about boundaries that she believes she has crossed with me when in fact, she has never done so, not even close to ever being inappropriate and I have never had an inappropriate work relationship let alone ever been accused of anything like that... .Still in my wife's mind, this other woman crossed the line, crossed her and our family and I disrespected her by not dealing with it from get go... .sigh... .It go so bad that I actually had to sit my Admin and another co-worker down and give her a heads up about what my wife was thinking and possible planning (ugly confrontation) ... .So now my wife and I stand on both sides of a bridge... .She has her truth, that people have schemed against her, that her own husband has valued and esteemed a co-worker more than herself, that apparently there must be some kind of intimacy between us because of all the red flags she sees... .and there I am on the other side... .knowing that NO ONE has even remotely come close to doing anything she is saying... .That she wants me to enforce boundaries that only exist in her head and not real life because it will never be on anyone's radar but her own... .

She did make an appt for counseling in a couple weeks... .she's going, but at this stage she is going to vent her side and get validation... .yesterday she reached out to a female leader in the church (friends) and she shared her side with her... .When I finally snapped a couple weeks ago and had to tell my Admin what was happening, I also had to tell my Elders for accountability... .While they had incredible grace and gave me much needed down time... .I'M STILL ON THE LEDGE... .... .I have been living in this for 27 years and I am beyond my limit... .

Boundaries have been put into place... .she's tripping now because she is so needy and now I'm not meeting all of her needs... .I practice SET and it helps to defuse but she has to go back into her side of what's going on every other day it seems... .It's draining me fast... .Then I catch myself pleading with her to get help, to realize the concerns that our adult kids and I have regarding her behavior and perceptions... .of course the whole time I'm sharing out of genuine love it's getting warped and distorted by her almost immediately... .Then I kick myself because I know she can't receive anything that I'm saying to her anyways... .I just have to shut up and practice the tools I've been learning... .still, it just feels so useless... .I know how this is going to play out, I've watched this movie before... .I heard it all again tonight... .no matter what it's always my fault... .blame, shame and repeat as needed... .Uggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... .ok thank you for listening... .I dunno, it's therapeutic just typing and getting it out... .

Hello all,

I have 27 years invested in our marriage with 3 adult children. The BPD tendencies have always been there, I just recently began to really recognize and move from denial into awareness about what's really causing my wife's behavior patterns. I had thought perhaps she was somewhat narcissistic and after studying more and talking to my therapist today, it is definitely BPD as the leading cause.

My wife went through some horrible episodes of abuse as a child that were handled even more horribly by her BPD/narcissistic mom. I only know snippets, she has always maintained that it scares her to even think about therapy and what might be brought to light. Stories of her grandmothers behavior as a psychological abuser are legendary within the family. So in essence my wife is the 3rd generation product of being told you're wrong, that didn't happen, you're never going to be good enough. She has told me often that I'm the only person that has really loved her and showed her that she has real value.

Yet from the beginning of our relationship there has been gas-lighting stories that change the facts of what happened, even the conversations are changed and sometimes completely fabricated in order to shift any perceived blame or responsibility back onto her. I find myself spending endless hours and energy trying to untangle events and words in our talks, arguments and disagreements that simply never took place or happened. We have had serious times talking about life, shared goals, state of our marriage, etc, and she will be completely humble and understanding. Times that I spent weeks carefully crafting my words, the timing and how things would be discussed. Afterwards there were times when I thought to myself, "Wow that went better than I expected and we're actually on the same page." Then later, days, weeks and even months later she will share reasons for her behaviors and she will have a "different version", where she describes me as yelling, demeaning her and it's a complete opposite of what I thought were breakthrough discussions. The last 2 years have gotten even more worse. My adult children have been victimized by the gas-lighting and the ridiculous behaviors. They are super worried about their mom and especially about the state of our marriage. Both my kids have talked to her about what they see and how it concerns them and they have pleaded with her to get help.
*When my wife feels like I am not feeding into her behavior and needs then she has in the past gravitated towards attention from others. I don't feel comfortable sharing more so I'll leave it at that.

I have worked through enough of the process to realize that my wife is getting worse and worse in her BPD symptoms and episodes. I'm also a Pastor. To the whole world my wife appears to be an angel. Her charisma is contagious. And while she's a beautiful and gifted, she scares the living hell out of me. I have no idea how she is going to respond or behave but I know from experience that if she doesn't get what she feels she needs, she's capable of ANYTHING.

Over the last month I fully moved into a place of detachment. Armed with my new found awareness, a few days ago I laid out some new boundaries in our relationship. She told me that she knew this was coming. Now I feel like I'm playing a waiting game. I have 0 expectations for her to change event though she promises and vows to go into therapy. Actually, I have told her that I have chosen to love her unconditionally. I will always love and respect her as the mother of my children. I have fully forgiven her for the pain she has cause me and our family. I can honestly say I have no bitterness or malice against her. I don't even understand that part, but it's where I'm at.  I also expressed that the unconditional love means I won't dictate to you what your path is going to be but I do know mine and nothing or no one will keep me from moving forward and healing. So that may mean that you stay where you're at or continue to get worse as I continue to grow and move forward. It may mean that we're no longer able to be in relationship together. I even released her to go and discover herself if that's what she feels she needs to do. That killed me, but I knew I had to do it. Even as our marriage hangs in limbo, she has moments where she lashes out. Still, I have always felt like eventually she would devalue and discard me/reject me and move on with her own version of what happened.

I have a few weeks off right now. Time of self care and do alot of soul searching about what the next steps are. I'm pretty much ready for anything. My whole life as I've known it could be and probably is going to come to and end. She is very scared of going into therapy and my own therapist tells me she has MAJOR MAJOR work to do if she wants to experience some kind of healing and recovery. I just don't know if I can live this way anymore... .I am absolutely exhausted... .

Thank you for letting me share and any feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Naughty Nibbler]

  HEY RDMercer55: 

I'm so sorry about the situation with your wife.  I can understand what a tough situation this has to be for a pastor.  Most people don't understand BPD, so they can easily chime in with sympathy for the pwBPD and their false statements.   Most people who see the charming pwBPD, can't imagine how horrible they can be to family behind closed doors.

I'm dealing with an uBPD sister, who took on significant BPD traits when our parents' health began to fail and then they both passed within 6 months of each other.  It took me going to therapy to gain an understanding of what was going on.  My sister is very active in a church and bible study.  It was hard to understand how someone could read the bible and not follow some of the basic principals.  I've been painted black, called names, raged at, bad mouthed to her church friends, etc.  I could go on for pages, as I'm sure you could.

I'm glad to hear that you are in therapy and that your children are supportive.  It helps to have a professional to talk to, who understands BPD.  Take care of yourself and find multiple ways to relieve some stress.  Exercise and some mindfulness exercises can be helpful.  I'm sure you use prayer, but other than that, do you have a way to relax?

I'm thinking you have prayed a lot about the situation.  Are you frustrated that it might seem that your prayers haven't been answered? 

[RDMercer55]

HEY RDMercer55: 

I'm so sorry about the situation with your wife.  I can understand what a tough situation this has to be for a pastor.  Most people don't understand BPD, so they can easily chime in with sympathy for the pwBPD and their false statements.   Most people who see the charming pwBPD, can't imagine how horrible they can be to family behind closed doors.

I'm dealing with an uBPD sister, who took on significant BPD traits when our parents' health began to fail and then they both passed within 6 months of each other.  It took me going to therapy to gain an understanding of what was going on.  My sister is very active in a church and bible study.  It was hard to understand how someone could read the bible and not follow some of the basic principals.  I've been painted black, called names, raged at, bad mouthed to her church friends, etc.  I could go on for pages, as I'm sure you could.

I'm glad to hear that you are in therapy and that your children are supportive.  It helps to have a professional to talk to, who understands BPD.  Take care of yourself and find multiple ways to relieve some stress.  Exercise and some mindfulness exercises can be helpful.  I'm sure you use prayer, but other than that, do you have a way to relax?

I'm thinking you have prayed a lot about the situation.  Are you frustrated that it might seem that your prayers haven't been answered? 

Thank you Naughty for encouraging words... .Your experiences make me very sad... .I can relate in the fact that here is someone who claims to know God, have a relationship with the Lord yet they are completely ignoring the very wisdom and principles they claim to follow... .sigh... .very tough... .My son is a twin and his sister also has BPD... .it has really been hard on him and i can only imagine what you have had to endure as well... .

Exercise and working out has been my main focus... .Dealing with this for years I turned to food as my coping mechanism... .I have lost alot of weight over the past few months and have really cleaned up my diet... .The exercise really helps in allowing me to self care while giving my something else to pour energy and thought into... .Plus I feel so much better physically... .

I did go through a season of depression because it seemed so many times like she would turn the corner only to cycle right back around and be worse than before... .After gaining awareness about this I realize now that while I do believe God can do anything and still does heal people, those are exceptions and not the rule to live by... .I do believe that it is possible for her to step out courageously and God will meet her there and give her strength... .I'm just so sad in the fact that I just don't believe she will be able to get the help she needs... .She will go into therapy blaming me and I have no confidence that she will respond to a therapist directing her into a diagnosis... .My therapist specializes in trauma therapy and has told me that "talk therapy" will not work in her case... .She has to be willing to go back to the original trauma's and be led into reconnecting her brain synapses as they were originally intended before her personality development became arrested... .It's a specialty therapy used in PTSD cases and its MAJOR MAJOR work for the patient... .

[Naughty Nibbler]

  RDMercer55:

Exercise and working out has been my main focus... .Dealing with this for years I turned to food as my coping mechanism... .I have lost alot of weight over the past few months and have really cleaned up my diet... .The exercise really helps in allowing me to self care while giving my something else to pour energy and thought into... .Plus I feel so much better physically... .

Good job on losing the weight and being physically active.  It can be tough to break the habit of using food for comfort.  It isn't like drugs and alcohol, in that you can't avoid it totally. 

My son is a twin and his sister also has BPD... .it has really been hard on him

How is your daughter doing at managing her BPD?  Has she had therapy and/or medication?  Is she able to lead a fairly normal life?

... .I do believe that it is possible for my wife to step out courageously and God will meet her there and give her strength... .I'm just so sad in the fact that I just don't believe she will be able to get the help she needs... .She will go into therapy blaming me and I have no confidence that she will respond to a therapist directing her into a diagnosis... .My therapist specializes in trauma therapy and has told me that "talk therapy" will not work in her case... .She has to be willing to go back to the original trauma's and be led into reconnecting her brain synapses as they were originally intended before her personality development became arrested... .It's a specialty therapy used in PTSD cases and its MAJOR MAJOR work for the patient... .

BPD is a spectrum disorder and can be very confusing in regard to cause and treatment. Everyone is a little different in various regards. There are a lot of interesting articles, some old and some new, that differ in thoughts on cause of BPD and treatment.  Although BPD can be environmental, it can be genetic or a combination of genetic and environmental.

Has your wife ever received medication/treatment for depression or anxiety (or some other mental health issue)?  It is common for people with BPD to have some neurochemical  problem.

One school of thought is that a pwBPD can learn some coping skills to manage some things like anger/rages

Have you looked into DBT therapy.  It is commonly used with pwBPD.  Here is a link to a self-help website for DBT.  You might want to check it out.  The specific link I'm giving you is to a page with suggested ways to "improve the moment", which can be helpful for people without BPD.

www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/improve_the_moment_worksheet.html

[RDMercer55]

RDMercer55:

Exercise and working out has been my main focus... .Dealing with this for years I turned to food as my coping mechanism... .I have lost alot of weight over the past few months and have really cleaned up my diet... .The exercise really helps in allowing me to self care while giving my something else to pour energy and thought into... .Plus I feel so much better physically... .

Good job on losing the weight and being physically active.  It can be tough to break the habit of using food for comfort.  It isn't like drugs and alcohol, in that you can't avoid it totally. 

My son is a twin and his sister also has BPD... .it has really been hard on him

How is your daughter doing at managing her BPD?  Has she had therapy and/or medication?  Is she able to lead a fairly normal life?

... .I do believe that it is possible for my wife to step out courageously and God will meet her there and give her strength... .I'm just so sad in the fact that I just don't believe she will be able to get the help she needs... .She will go into therapy blaming me and I have no confidence that she will respond to a therapist directing her into a diagnosis... .My therapist specializes in trauma therapy and has told me that "talk therapy" will not work in her case... .She has to be willing to go back to the original trauma's and be led into reconnecting her brain synapses as they were originally intended before her personality development became arrested... .It's a specialty therapy used in PTSD cases and its MAJOR MAJOR work for the patient... .

BPD is a spectrum disorder and can be very confusing in regard to cause and treatment. Everyone is a little different in various regards. There are a lot of interesting articles, some old and some new, that differ in thoughts on cause of BPD and treatment.  Although BPD can be environmental, it can be genetic or a combination of genetic and environmental.

Has your wife ever received medication/treatment for depression or anxiety (or some other mental health issue)?  It is common for people with BPD to have some neurochemical  problem.

One school of thought is that a pwBPD can learn some coping skills to manage some things like anger/rages

Have you looked into DBT therapy.  It is commonly used with pwBPD.  Here is a link to a self-help website for DBT.  You might want to check it out.  The specific link I'm giving you is to a page with suggested ways to "improve the moment", which can be helpful for people without BPD.

www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/improve_the_moment_worksheet.html

Yes I agree with you there are many different approaches to this disorder... .My daughter was in therapy beginning when she was around 14 for about 6 years. The last 2 years were spent in DBT. The first year she resisted, finally she began to apply some of the techniques and there was some improvements. Daughter has always been anti meds and refuses... .As I type this a dear family friend is trying to coach her back into some kind of program. She has lots of resources available but she usually avoids and declines help.

Wife is definitely battling depression also. Runs in her family along with diabetes, which she does do a very good of managing. So that creates other physical issues for her.

After last nights discussion, she has had time today and she is very distant. I can tell she is seething because she doesn't understand detachment, boundaries and my self care program. Of course I know she can't so it's ok. To be honest, I like the time away and it helps me to not be charmed back into her drama. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey RDMercer55: 

My daughter was in therapy beginning when she was around 14 for about 6 years. The last 2 years were spent in DBT. The first year she resisted, finally she began to apply some of the techniques and there was some improvements. Daughter has always been anti meds and refuses... .As I type this a dear family friend is trying to coach her back into some kind of program. She has lots of resources available but she usually avoids and declines help.

Did your family friend have any success with coaching your daughter?  What are her current most significant BPD behaviors?

Wife is definitely battling depression also. Runs in her family along with diabetes, which she does do a very good of managing. So that creates other physical issues for her.

Interesting how people who aren't able to manage depression by other means, refuse to try depression meds.  I'm thinking your wife might feel there is some stigma associated with taking meds for depression?  Do you know if others in her family with depression have tired medication?

After last nights discussion, she has had time today and she is very distant. I can tell she is seething because she doesn't understand detachment, boundaries and my self care program. Of course I know she can't so it's ok. To be honest, I like the time away and it helps me to not be charmed back into her drama.

How are things going?  Sounds like you have developed some good coping skills.

[RDMercer55]

Did your family friend have any success with coaching your daughter?  What are her current most significant BPD behaviors?

Yes but very intermittent at best. It helped us self care probably more that it did connect with her. She just has not been in a place for several years to be open and accept her condition. In fact she is in complete denial and her life is in the toilet because of it... .Really makes me sad for her... .Her most significant behaviors are mainly living in her emotional mind and not her wise mind... .So her entire perception of what is happening in her relationships, what's being said to her, it's always distorted... .She misses social cues on a regular basis and because she lives in the false sense of identity she has created, she has many grandiose thoughts about life and how she wants to live but of course can never follow through any of the steps to make it happen... .She also suffers from avoidance (diagnosed) making the whole nasty cycle constantly repeat itself... .This of course further compounds upon her depression.

Interesting how people who aren't able to manage depression by other means, refuse to try depression meds.  I'm thinking your wife might feel there is some stigma associated with taking meds for depression?  Do you know if others in her family with depression have tired medication?

Yes her mother was diagnosed and on meds, her sisters have been as well. To everyone else that she talks to and encourages she acts as if she has no stigma and I tend to believe that. The problem is that you also have to believe you have a problem... .She does not and instead feels like she is slowly losing her family because we all think she is crazy. (her words)... .Which is also sad because we have done nothing but lovingly approach her and handle her with compassion.

How are things going?  Sounds like you have developed some good coping skills.

Thank you. I'm trying and I'm learning ALOT... .but I've been in this cycle long enough to know that she will continue to push on the boundaries to the point that she gets overwhelmed and frustrated... .Things are not only civil but there is real affection and compassion going on between us... .Sigh... .At this point all the cards have been laid on the table, she actually has an appt for the therapist and things will continue to unfold every day... .Thank you for asking ;-)