question about JADEing and conflict

[Beren2016]

Hi

may be a bit of a simple question apologies if this information is available elsewhere

i am pretty knowledgeable about BPD and helping a sufferer but i just starting to come across terms like JADEing, somehow i have never seen i before.

my girlfriend suffers from BPD, we have intense conflict regularly. I am very good at not getting angry in these situation and i don't shout and keep my voice as neutral as possible and non threatening.

After reading about JADEing i have realised that is i all that i do in every conflict situation, i belive this is my attempt to defuse the situation, obviously it doesn't work. In general it is hard for me to feel l like i have been understood by people i am talking to, so in a BPD conflict situation when my Girlfriend "locks down" i end up sitting repeating myself trying to justify and explain when probably i should be giving her space to calm down.

i was wondering is the alternative to JADEing to validate her feelings,  or is there any other way to deal with this conflict eg. other methods with Acronyns or just the best things to do.

thank you in advance.

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[C.Stein]

Listening without engaging or judging is important in any relationship and critical in relationships with borderlines.  Sometimes all someone wants and needs is to be heard.  Let the fire burn without adding fuel to it.

The key is to not internalize what is being said.  Observe it, validate it if needed, let it flow over you instead of through you.  Once you internalize it then you will want to JADE and it will be very very difficult to remain objective.  

This will be difficult at times, especially when you feel personally attacked, but it can be done.  Can you see yourself being able to do this?

[ArleighBurke]

The other conversational technique is SET. This is a formula to allow her to be heard, but also for you to be able to say some of "your bit".

As funny as it sounds, I think listening in a "neutral" manner can also be invalidating! I think the BPD logic is: I'm telling you something that makes ME angry/hurt/worried - but YOU aren't getting angry/hurt/worried - so that's not validating me!

Popular books like "stop walking on eggshells" discuss this as well. They say sometimes you need to "mirror" their emotion - just a step lower. That allows them to be heard, feel validated, but then YOU can gently lower them back to a neutral state.

I personally havn't been able to make this work yet - but I can see the logic and I'm still trying... .

[waverider]

If you can master SET then it will give you the confidence not to JADE. JADE usually occurs because you are not feeling confident. Mastering SET gives you that confidence.

The problem with JADE is that it pushes you off your high ground. As a result you end up trying to defend a weaker position. You know you have been JADED as you feel pressured, even manipulated. It is an established sales trick to push people into JADE, pwBPD are naturals at it due to their low levels of respect or understanding of other peoples boundaries.

What is likely at the moment is that you use a lot of SE and leave off the T, so as not to cause trouble... It is important to incorporate your T, but then try not to "sell" it, all you need is the right state it. You dont need to get agreement for it. Too much S & E on its own can create an empathy junky. ie they will do things deliberately to provoke you to give them some S & E. Adding the T in makes it a communication tool rather than just a free reward.

[SettingBorders]

I think, what waverider says its that the art in SET'ing is to be short with the empathy-part and to let the truth-part follow immediatly.
I've noticed my mistake to show empathy, then let him answer (and these answers are usually very long as he feels very comfy then) and when I then start with the truth he's confused. So starting over with the SE again doesn't make it better, if one doesn't apply the T immediatly, means in one go.

[Beren2016]

in answer to C. Stein... .yes definitely i am good at doing that. both in my relationship and i have also been complimented for it in my job when dealing with people having a rant at me.


we have lots of conflict about buying food... my GF regularly requests me to go and buy her fast food/takeaway a lot of the time are difficult times and most of the time i cant really afford it as i need to save money.

i know this is her in her way checking that i still love her... .she associates getting things with proof of love... .also tends to link with bad days and time when i spend time with my friends, it make for a difficult situation as you can imagine. She is often scared to ask outright and does it in either a hinting way or sort of childishly. either way saying no provokes anger and pushing away ... and internal feelings of rejection

in this situation i read it like this

S:- i am hearing that you want me to go and get you food

E:- i know that this is very important to you as you have had a bad day today while i have been at work

T:- But right now i don't have the money to do that, as i need the money for things we are doing next week. (possibly offer to give something here/offer alternative... .ie. get something cheaper/closer)

then C Steins advice comes in to endure the fallout


just gets difficult as she doesnt understand, alot of the time she sees if in a egocentric/childish way. "the place is there/you have money in wallet, the only obvious reason you wont is you don't care"


  

[C.Stein]

we have lots of conflict about buying food... my GF regularly requests me to go and buy her fast food/takeaway a lot of the time are difficult times and most of the time i cant really afford it as i need to save money.

Personally this is something I would not tolerate.  If she wants fast food/takeaway then she can go get it herself.  Expecting/demanding you to do it, especially as proof of caring/love, is highly manipulative and wrong. 

I see a need for a boundary here, how about you? 

[Beren2016]

it isn't as malicious as it sounds, and its a difficult situation

she honestly just sees it as her asking me for something... .the proof of care thing is totally subconscious... she is able to understand when not in the moment, but when she is feeling its like a whirlwind in her mind and the emotions are all that matters


i am working on this, that why i made this post. on many issues she responds a lot better with validation of her emotions so i am focusing on how my communication can help to work through it in the least traumatic way so she can work on her coping techniques at the same time.

while boundaries do help, i believe the emotions involved in this context are a core part of the negativity/neglect she suffered as a child, and imposing a boundary could trigger a lot of pain and rejection for her and cause a lot worse of a meltdown, and mutual communication i believe can make the emotions easier to bare... .

that being said that does not mean letting her get away with unfair treatment of myself... .

[C.Stein]

she honestly just sees it as her asking me for something

OK.  So how do you think you can get her to understand she isn't just asking, she is expecting?

while boundaries do help, i believe the emotions involved in this context are a core part of the negativity/neglect she suffered as a child, and imposing a boundary could trigger a lot of pain and rejection for her and cause a lot worse of a meltdown, and mutual communication i believe can make the emotions easier to bare... .

Be careful here with respect to making excuses for not setting reasonable boundaries.  Emotionally speaking she is a child and the type of communication you speak of may not be possible for her.  

Have you had a chance to read this?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.msg913187#msg913187

[waverider]

we have lots of conflict about buying food... my GF regularly requests me to go and buy her fast food/takeaway a lot of the time are difficult times and most of the time i cant really afford it as i need to save money.

  

I have this all the time.

The only way to deal with this is to be proactive to avoid that "can I?/No" debate constantly destabilizing you. By proactive I mean by saying yes we will do that on some kind of structured way, eg say at weekends/certain day/ or a limited number of times a week.

As hinted at, it is not the obtaining food, it is about being comforted by have a need (any need met). What you are aiming to do is redirect her away from inpulsivity, and rewarding delayed gratification. Avoid flat out "no's" and focus on setting rewards. This shows more support and empathy, while sticking to the truth which is you cant afford to keep doing that, and it is the impulsivity of the request which is probably stressing you the most.

This is an exercise of identifying to yourself what actually is your truth before expressing it, that is not always as easy, or as obvious as it seems. Especially when we are trapped in JADE and are swamping ourselves with band wagon excuses.

Like everything it is about decluttering our own mind and centering ourselves first. Keeping to the big picture and away from instant reactivity.

pwBPD may see repeated impulsive requests as unrelated, but they do set up precedents and create entitlement. There is no end game in this it is a constant creeping process. You need to always break consolidation of unhealthy ways before they become entrenched.

Believe it or not due to black and white thinking they actually do understand "no" better than "no, but... ." which confuses them so they pursue it to see where the conclusion lies. They need conclusive responses. By the way try to keep "but" out of your vocabulary, it simply deletes everything that preceded it

[ArleighBurke]

My partner will often ask for takeaway because she cannot get her head around cooking. Even if i volunteer to cook! I think she sees the whole "planning, preparing, cleaning up" as too stressful to be part of or even watch. Perhaps a pre-made meal that we can just heat and eat is good... .?

She also grew up in a very poor house where often they wouldn't be able to afford food. So on some level, "being able to afford takeaway" is actually a comfort for her - a reminder that she is "safe".