Good qualities of a BPD person? Separating the truly good from the fake good

[patientandclear]

Where this came into play for me: when I realized that the incredible specialness I felt with my ex wBPD (it seemed like we had a rare mindmeld, we shared things I don't share with hardly anyone, we saved up big and little things to share ... .You all know the dynamic) was rare on my side but on his side, something he gives out like candy. One time he asked to meet a good friend of mine who was popping up in my accounts of my daily life ... .We had dinner together. They didn't have a ton in common and there seemed to be no particular sparks btwn them. But a few days later, he ran into her on the street, and she described it as feeling like she was the most important person in the world. She said if she did not know me and what I'd gone through with him, she'd have assumed they were on a road to soul mate-hood.

Point being, the feelings they kindle in us seem to flow from our assumption that the good stuff means more than what's on the surface. But other than a deep longing for it to be so, it seems that it doesn't necessarily connote anything deeper or more enduring.

Hard to put words on this but I think you're right. Some people may not mind. For me, it takes some of the meaning of out what meant so much to me.

[icky]

patientandclear. my theory on what BPD is, is this:. you know how we all need to form one or two intial, really really deep bonds as infants/ toddlers to know we are connected? (it's what those poor orphans in Romanian orphanages never got, for example). another example is when baby ducks hatch out of the egg - whatever living being they first see over a period of time becomes "mum" - regardless of whether that's a duck, a human, a dog, a cat, etc. it's that initial, deep bond that needs to be hardwired into us, so that we deeply know we exist and we are seen/ heard. well, i think that's what BPD ppl don't have - they don't get an intial bond, maybe because their parents have a personality disorder themselves, or whatever. so they go round in life, trying to find that deep initial bond that we all need. it's their unfinished business and they need to finish it (and rightly so). so they are walking around, trying to make soul-mate connections. it's what makes them so open and charming and intense. and i think it is possible for them to make such a bond - with a lot of help, love and therapy. but until they've been able to do it, that searching-for-a-soul-mate intensity will shine from them with incredible brightness. . i think many actors/ celebrities have this type of BPD. it's what makes them such an intense presence. they interact with their audiences in that intense, emotional, seeking-soul-mate type way. and their fans drool over them, lapping that specialness up. (i think you can actually make heaps of money from a BPD condition that way)  . : ).

[icky]

patientandclear. my BPD partner has that soul-mate effect on everyone too btw. but he HATES it. he calls it "flirting". (which it's not, but it's what he's convinced himself it is). and he HATES that women will respond flirtingly/ sexually to his soul-searching BPD intensity. so he forces himself not to do it, cos the flirting/ sexual responses scare him. . i don't think it's something BPD people "hand out like candy". it's a desperate search - one they can't help and that they can't stop being on

[Renard]

This subject--separating the good from the bad--weighs so heavily on me. It is impossible to deny her goodness, yet the chaos-making piece goes like this: how can someone so good treat the person she called her beloved as something to be discarded for what in truth is simply a delusion. She "split" (black and white) and triangulated and fabricated and we're done. The memory of the goodness, though, simply won't go away.

I keep thinking this situation for me is no different than that of anyone who has been jilted, but somehow it feels particularly painful because of the intensity between us and the way it ended. If the intensity had been unalloyed with the disorder and all the values of the intense love had also been unalloyed then we would have lived through everything together. Or, so I think. Love to be love endures.

Losing her is devastating emotionally, but there's also such a devastating ethics and values crisis in this for me: altruism and my convictions about love and the goodness of human affection have been undermined. I brought with me to the relationship all that I am and all my values (and I don't mind saying that I brought all my intensity and soul to it) so now what? I poured all my love and all my convictions into the relationship and heard them echoed back. There was such an incredible reciprocating energy between us, yet how can that end with such delusions as the rationale? (I say delusions because she was so deeply not herself when she ended things--so paranoid and persecuted and unmoored.)

I don't know how to end this post: part of me says in self-mockery "boo-hoo!" "get over it" and part of me says who the hell am I now if all my best (and, sure, some of my crap too, because I'm not perfect) counts as nothing in the end.

[icky]

. The memory of the goodness, though, simply won't go away. . Losing her is devastating emotionally, but there's also such a devastating ethics and values crisis in this for me: altruism and my convictions about love and the goodness of human affection have been undermined. .

. yes. a BPD person will seek to reach your very, very, very core, hoping to find the bond they need there. if for whatever circumstances, they aren't quite able to make that bond and they move away, that's devastating for the person they tried - but failed - to bond with. i think it's a very particular trauma. and i think you should treat it as a trauma. it's not just "boo-hoo, get over it". please have compassionate with yourself for that intense experience. can you try writing some more, to help get some more clarity for yourself?

[Renard]

The memory of the goodness, though, simply won't go away.

Losing her is devastating emotionally, but there's also such a devastating ethics and values crisis in this for me: altruism and my convictions about love and the goodness of human affection have been undermined.

yes

a BPD person will seek to reach your very, very, very core, hoping to find the bond they need there

if for whatever circumstances, they aren't quite able to make that bond and they move away, that's devastating for the person they tried - but failed - to bond with

i think it's a very particular trauma

and i think you should treat it as a trauma

it's not just "boo-hoo, get over it"

please have compassionate with yourself for that intense experience

can you try writing some more, to help get some more clarity for yourself?

Dear hmmmmm, thanks for the invitation to say more. It's worth saying that the relationship was four years long. We were everything to one another. I could on and on about how we fit in every way. We were children together, were intellectual, were silly, were intense, were partners, we were one another's beloved, and on and on. I feel a bit self-absorbed to say it and, but in truth there are no words for the profundity of what I felt for her. We went to the most intimate places I know. I do think she felt something very similar back, but that's dangerous territory now--that is, to guess at what she felt. So perhaps there's something to what you say about trauma. I used the words glory and darkness to describe the relationship in a different post on this forum: those words still fit. The darkness during the four years was more like a bit of twilight in which we always lit candles together. The real darkness landed out of the blue--the phone call at  two in morning and the subsequent and instant unravelling. The real darkness is where I find myself now: it feels existential, ethical, moral, sexual, intellectual, emotional, . . . . I don't mean to land too many pompous words, but that is how I think and how we lived and loved, even while it was so deliciously simple to sit silently together or simply to hold one another in what I thought was utter peace.

[icky]

@renard. wow . yeah. i get it. i think many of us do. i've been in my relationship for 2 years. 18 months of the deepest joy - as you describe it. the happiest 18 months of my life EVER. the last 6 months have been BPD dysregulation, with me wondering what was going on. for four days now, i've realised it's BPD. i can relate to what you've written. i spent the past 6 months saying "stop" tho, so for me the trauma hasn't been as deep. i could tell straight away "something" was wrong . i am a little bit traumatised, but not as badly as you are. i think you will need time to recover from it. it will start to hurt less, over time. you will gain some understanding of what happened and that will - over time - help heal the pain too. and eventually you will feel enough trust to have another relationship, without worrying that the same thing could happen again. BPD is a very powerful condition - both with the positive and the negative stuff. please keep writing if you feel it is helpful to you

[patientandclear]

Hmmmm--yes, I agree with you about where it comes from.  By "handing out like candy," I didn't mean to trivializing the quest, only to point out that when everyone is special, no one is that special.  What I thought was about me wasn't really about me -- it was about his need and hope and how poorly he took care of all the special people who cared about him previously.  Seeing that, as part of bpdfamily.com, has meant that the sparkly stuff doesn't mean what it used to to me.

What is left is what we actually did and shared together.  That WAS real and it was unusual and it was good.  That said, he still doesn't know how to take care of that, is scared of that, sabotages, doesn't keep any promises, and has no meaningful insight about what happens.  When he feels bad about the r/ship he seems to conclude that that is because he has yet to meet the right person with whom he won't have those bad feelings.  It's a recipe for so much hurt.

[Renard]

Thanks, Hmmmmm. I don't mind saying I am a bit of a mess. I just can't quite believe the way things ended and that is over. I expect that's denial, but that's where I am now.

[icky]

patientandclear. @renard. yes, i think we need to be aware that the BPD's quest for that vital first deep bond looks a lot like a romantic relationship, looks like "true love". maybe a BPD's quest for a deep first bond can turn into a romantic relationship/ true love? i'm not sure. i would guess tho, that it's only possible if the partner knows it's BPD, has help in dealing with that, and the BPD person is able to find ways of growing. the chances of all that happening are pretty slim, imo. it takes an incredible amount of luck, to get all of those factors to work. so chances are that the BPD's quest for that deep bond they need for their survival as a human being, will fail and they will need to move on and try again with someone else. i don't think it necessarily fails because we, the partner are not the right person. so many unlucky coincidences can disrupt the process of forming that deep bond. . i think we need to be aware tho, that that bonding process is more about therapy than it is about romantic love. BPD's choose us because they hope/ think/ trust we will be loving, caring therapists for them and help heal them. we choose the BPD because we are in love with them and think they are offering us a deeply beautiful romantic relationship. i think it's a mix-up. that's all. . in very few cases, it is possible to create that healing bond as part of a romantic relationship, thereby combining the therapeutic healing with the romantic love. but most of us aren't that lucky - most of the time a BPD's quest for that deep healing bond will fail and they will move on, leaving a traumatised ex-partner behind wondering what the heck just happened and wondering how to pick up the pieces

[Renard]

hmmmmm, thanks. I got pretty close to the second scenario you describe. I'm older than my now ex partner and stood in the dual role of lover and helper, but I didn't know anything about BPD as helper. I counselled as best friend, lover, partner, collaborator and so on, so I did think we were completely able to withstand what may have come. But, and that's a big but, I didn't recognize anything about BPD. I saw all the turbulence and such, but did not quite think I would be focal point when she split and turned all the energy of the disorder to me. That's the excruciating part: I think if she came back and I was better ready and somewhat healed after this episode that we could well again. I want to hope that's true, even though everyone's wisdom says abandon all hope and find a way to live without her.

[icky]

. .when everyone is special, no one is that special.  What I thought was about me wasn't really about me .

. i understood what you meant about handing out candy. and re-reading my comment, i thought it sounded too abrupt, but i couldn't click on the "modify" button anymore, to soften my comment! i only wanted to say that i don't think it's a voluntary thing they do. . i feel a lot like you do about it "not being about me". i've written here that i feel like he's just using me as his security blanket. . i think that's partly true, but i also think we're both a bit wrong : ). . yes, our BPD (ex)partners are choosing us as their security blanket for their needs. BUT they chose US not someone else. they don't randomly choose anyone. just like us, they pick the people they love and like and admire most as partners. so they did choose us, because they thought we would be the most lovely, most beautiful, most caring, most wonderful security blanket they could find, out of all the millions of potential security blankets out there. . i think we need to be aware that both of those motivations are going on. yes, to some degree they are using us, in their desparation. but also, they are choosing us, because they think we are the most trustworthy, most beautiful, most special option they have. . i think by only focussing on the fact that they used us, we're trying to protect ourselves against the hurt of having to grieve the true love we've lost. it's a hard mix of things to grieve. it's easier to just grive one: either grieving the true love we lost OR grieving the fact that we were used. i think it takes an incredible amount of courage to deeply realise that we human beings are ALL flawed and that we all fall in love out of true love but also out of a need to be held, to be seen, to be cared for. and that that is what happened to us - they genuinely loved us and they used us in their desparation, too

[icky]

. hmmmmm, thanks. I got pretty close to the second scenario you describe. I'm older than my now ex partner and stood in the dual role of lover and helper, but I didn't know anything about BPD as helper. I counselled as best friend, lover, partner, collaborator and so on, so I did think we were completely able to withstand what may have come. But, and that's a big but, I didn't recognize anything about BPD. I saw all the turbulence and such, but did not quite think I would be focal point when she split and turned all the energy of the disorder to me. That's the excruciating part: I think if she came back and I was better ready and somewhat healed after this episode that we could well again. I want to hope that's true, even though everyone's wisdom says abandon all hope and find a way to live without her.

. : ). i think "everyone's wisdom" is also an attempt to avoid pain. people want to see you not get hurt, so they say that hope = 0%. maybe you think the same - you don't want to get hurt, so lets say hope = 0% and be done with it. my opinion is that with the help of a community like this one here, your chances are approx. 20%. in some ways, it's easier if hope = 0%. 20% is not an easy hope to live with! it's up to you, what you do. and you should base it on how strong you feel - what you feel you could cope with. if you don't feel strong enough to look after YOURSELF, then it's better to walk away from it . (that's just my opinion, tho)

[icky]

@renard. btw, i split up with my partner on wednesday. then realised it is BPD. then had a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig think (here) as to whether i could cope with that and whether i still wanted to be part of the relationship, even if he was mainly using me as his security blanket. (yes, i'm a special security blanket for him, but still a security blanket). i've now decided i want to give it a go          (i think i may be crazy, haha). BUT. i think i now also have a 20% chance that it'll work. 80% chance is that he'll make me the focal point of all the negative BPD stuff now and he'll reject me for not being a good-enough-security-blanket and will move on, seeking a better one. so then i too will be going through total grieving. : (

[Renard]

hmmmmm, I'm sorry to know that your break up is so recent. I don't know if it's any consolation, but that has got to be difficult. I hope you have some support around you.

As for hope, I don't know to extinguish it altogether, but I feel that to nurture it is to create a kind of pain I can't bear. I also don't know how to put probability into this mix. I just hope I can at least speak to her one more time. I think that's what hope looks like--not for the relationship--but to know she is okay or that we could talk once. That's probably stupid, especially given that the final communication involved her yelling at me through the phone and then another awful voice mail in which she was not connected very closely to reality.

[icky]

@renard. well, i think either way, you need to do some healing work for yourself  : ). if you want to move on from the relationship and leave it behind, then you need to heal yourself from the trauma of a BPD relationship - with it's incredibly intense and beautiful first phase and it's painful and harrowing second phase. if you want to try and somehow salvage the relationship, you need to do some healing work too, so that you have a chance of being strong enough to cope with all that a BPD relationship entails. so - either way, while you're waiting to talk to her again, you should be trying to heal this traumatic experience for yourself. take your time, be gentle with yourself, reach out when you need it, talk when talking helps, give yourself time, look at yourself with the compassion you would give someone else if they were in your situation.

[Renard]

hmmmmm, thanks for your good words. I do need to heal. I feel so bloody awful and still so confused, even though I think it's pretty clear she is BPD. It's good to talk--to friends, here, to you and others.

I hope you find peace also.

[icky]

yeah, i'm okay. i got out of the relationship before it got really traumatic. so i managed to protect myself from the worst pain. now that i'm aware and informed about BPD, i know i can protect myself adequately

[Renard]

hmmmmm, thanks again for your words.

[icky]

i was just meditating about what i wrote earlier today in my "oh dear, what now" thread about BPD having a totally separate "language" to how "normal" people communicate and that BPD's have trouble understanding us, too... and i came up with something that i do find truly positive about BPD. (cos i'm wondering whether it's actually as legitimate a way of living life as living life "normally" is.). sure, in today's western societies and cultures, there's a BIG focus on everyone needs to be predictable and reliable and logical (but a lot of that has to do with our modern society's need for capitalism's workers to function like that - it's the backbone of our society/ financial system, so people who fit in with that are valued more highly than everyone who doesn't fit in with that.). but zoom back in history one thousand, three thousand or ten thousand years, and there you have societies that may have highly valued people with traits like BPD. i do think we view BPD from a very biased societal point of view of what is mental "health" and what is "valuable". so if we use the metaphor, that BPD's are pretty "childlike", then what are the truly good traits of children? (i listed some of them in an earlier post in this thread). i like my partner's ability to be truly "in the moment". often, i think i'm too  "grown-up" and too sensible and rational. to counteract this, i do Zen meditation and learn Buddhist principles and skills. however, my BPD partner is a waaaaaaaaaay better Zen meditator and a waaaaaay better Buddhist than i'll ever be   : ). he's so in the moment. and if the moment is weird, he waits for it to pass, til a less weird moment comes along. i do envy him that  : ). and there are many similar examples. a lot of his "childlike" traits are EXCELLENT traits - they just really, really, really don't fit into our western, economical, structured, organised, logical set up. maybe i need to be less judgemental about whether BPD is "not normal". it certainly is DIFFERENT to what i and most people usually call "normal". and it certainly is a CHALLENGE to get BPD and "normal" stuff to be compatible and to funciton together. but maybe i need to think more along the lines of "being left-handed or being autistic or having BPD or speaking Esperanto or being a gifted singer" is all a truly valid part of human experience. sure, some of those ways of experiencing the world have their own particular challenges and some of them fit into our logical, organised western societal system better than others do, but. so what? maybe my point of view is far too "normed". (and i don't mean to be superficial here). (i don't mean to condone BPD being abusive towards their partners or their children!). but maybe BPD is a legitimate way of being in the world and a legitimate part of our human evolution and it just feels like a very foreign, strange culture to those of us who are non-BPD

[Renard]

hmmmmm, good thoughts. I am not quite on a same page, but at least in the same book. I think my partner could easily have been a saint or a visionary or a notable figure in another age than ours. Yeah, yeah, I'm  idealizing--or maybe not. She has so many incredibly good traits even though she has cut me to the core. I always called her my hero and told her how #@8&ing tough she is. I still admire her: the BPD cannot be easy to live with (the feelings of emptiness alone are an unimaginable burden). To bear such instability takes formidable strength.