Confused

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Slight recap since it's been a bit.

My ex of 7 years broke NC after 2 months. Called me and said she wanted to be friends. We got together twice since then, had a great time both times. She seems to have moved on and is casually dating other people. I was still hung up on her upon both of our meetings, which made them bittersweet. I had a great time but left wanting more, which was painful. So I decided not to initiate any further contact after the last time we hung out, but didn't rule out replying or meeting her if she contacted me. The reason being, because if I contact her it may be unwanted... .as we all know, reactions can be unpredictable. However, if she contacts me I know that she will most likely treat me well because she genuinely wants to talk to or see me if it was her choice to reach out.

So about 10 days after the last time we got together, she messaged me to compliment me on my Halloween costume that she saw on social media. I was out with friends so I replied the following evening and we exchanged a few friendly texts. The following evening I saw via social media that her family dog was hit by a car. I messaged her just to let her know I was thinking of them and hoped that their dog was okay. She called me, and we talked for about an hour while I was getting things together at work. She said maybe we could get together the next time we were both on campus (we go to the same University) and I pointed out that that would be the following day. She told me to text her if I was staying around the area. I wasn't able to stick around, so I didn't contact her, but I messaged her the following day (today) to let her know that I had to take my car in yesterday so I couldn't stick around school. Again we exchanged a couple friendly texts.

Until she contacted me about the Halloween costume, I was entering a state of ambivalence. I was able to go to places we used to frequent together without feeling so depressed, I saw pictures of her on social media, (even one with the girl she's casually been seeing now) and my blood didn't boil. I didn't like it, but I was a little less effected. I went from dreaming of her nightly to dreaming of her maybe once or twice a week. I had made the decision to avoid initiating contact while I still felt strongly for her, and had held to that, and I think that was the right decision. However, once she reached out to me again I let that fall to the wayside, and have been initiating engagement with her a little more now. I still have my guard up because I believe she is still dating. I know she's not in a relationship, and it appears to be pretty touch and go - nothing serious... .but that still puts me in a bad place when I have feelings for her.

It's become clear that I never really detached, I just tried to repress any thoughts about her. Well, any in-depth thoughts that is. I think of her daily, but merely her existence. I don't allow myself to think about her personality, her qualities that I love... .anything beyond the most basic level of recognition, I try to cut off. I just don't allow myself to go there, because once I do I fall into a state of depression again. I don't even really know how I feel anymore. For a little while I was posting on the saving board, because I had really hoped that reinstituting contact might be a good place to start and that ultimately we could work things out again at some point. But then I started to feel a little more content on my own. I still recognized that I love her, but sort of also acknowledged that it probably wasn't for the best right now. And now, after communicating with her more often, I am starting to feel strongly for her again. It's confusing because I genuinely do love her, I know that... .but I also know that my emotions get tangled up in nostalgia, sentimentality, history, trauma bonding... .all of these aspects make it hard to decipher what is best and what I really feel in this moment. Seems like my emotions are fleeting, and change slightly from day to day.

I find her confusing as well. She seems to really appreciate me now and enjoy my company, yet she doesn't want to be with me... while she is casually dating someone who she has told me does not appreciate her. I know it's wasted energy to try to figure her out per say, but I wish I had some idea what was going on inside her head. It would make it a lot easier for me to make decisions regarding our contact/lack of contact if I understood her intentions better.

[JJacks0]

Slight recap since it's been a bit.

My ex of 7 years broke NC after 2 months. Called me and said she wanted to be friends. We got together twice since then, had a great time both times. She seems to have moved on and is casually dating other people. I was still hung up on her upon both of our meetings, which made them bittersweet. I had a great time but left wanting more, which was painful. So I decided not to initiate any further contact after the last time we hung out, but didn't rule out replying or meeting her if she contacted me. The reason being, because if I contact her it may be unwanted... .as we all know, reactions can be unpredictable. However, if she contacts me I know that she will most likely treat me well because she genuinely wants to talk to or see me if it was her choice to reach out.

So about 10 days after the last time we got together, she messaged me to compliment me on my Halloween costume that she saw on social media. I was out with friends so I replied the following evening and we exchanged a few friendly texts. The following evening I saw via social media that her family dog was hit by a car. I messaged her just to let her know I was thinking of them and hoped that their dog was okay. She called me, and we talked for about an hour while I was getting things together at work. She said maybe we could get together the next time we were both on campus (we go to the same University) and I pointed out that that would be the following day. She told me to text her if I was staying around the area. I wasn't able to stick around, so I didn't contact her, but I messaged her the following day (today) to let her know that I had to take my car in yesterday so I couldn't stick around school. Again we exchanged a couple friendly texts.

Until she contacted me about the Halloween costume, I was entering a state of ambivalence. I was able to go to places we used to frequent together without feeling so depressed, I saw pictures of her on social media, (even one with the girl she's casually been seeing now) and my blood didn't boil. I didn't like it, but I was a little less effected. I went from dreaming of her nightly to dreaming of her maybe once or twice a week. I had made the decision to avoid initiating contact while I still felt strongly for her, and had held to that, and I think that was the right decision. However, once she reached out to me again I let that fall to the wayside, and have been initiating engagement with her a little more now. I still have my guard up because I believe she is still dating. I know she's not in a relationship, and it appears to be pretty touch and go - nothing serious... .but that still puts me in a bad place when I have feelings for her.

It's become clear that I never really detached, I just tried to repress any thoughts about her. Well, any in-depth thoughts that is. I think of her daily, but merely her existence. I don't allow myself to think about her personality, her qualities that I love... .anything beyond the most basic level of recognition, I try to cut off. I just don't allow myself to go there, because once I do I fall into a state of depression again. I don't even really know how I feel anymore. For a little while I was posting on the saving board, because I had really hoped that reinstituting contact might be a good place to start and that ultimately we could work things out again at some point. But then I started to feel a little more content on my own. I still recognized that I love her, but sort of also acknowledged that it probably wasn't for the best right now. And now, after communicating with her more often, I am starting to feel strongly for her again. It's confusing because I genuinely do love her, I know that... .but I also know that my emotions get tangled up in nostalgia, sentimentality, history, trauma bonding... .all of these aspects make it hard to decipher what is best and what I really feel in this moment. Seems like my emotions are fleeting, and change slightly from day to day.

I find her confusing as well. She seems to really appreciate me now and enjoy my company, yet she doesn't want to be with me... while she is casually dating someone who she has told me does not appreciate her. I know it's wasted energy to try to figure her out per say, but I wish I had some idea what was going on inside her head. It would make it a lot easier for me to make decisions regarding our contact/lack of contact if I understood her intentions better.

[Zinnia21]

I can really relate to this limbo, where you've come so far in detaching (further than you even realise), and then the positive contact totally sways you back, even when you think maybe you're strong and it seems like you can manage it.

I just posted a (very long) message myself about this very feeling! I've done so well in getting on with my life in many ways, but still I wonder and long for my ex, it can be frustrating. I think in this situation it's easy to lose a proper gauge of reality, and even my own boundaries which used to be good and made sense in other relationships and breakups, well they've been pushed, pulled and confused so much! Sometimes I'm so sure of moving on and sometimes I'm left wondering, and even hoping.

One good thing is that at least if some positive communication has been reinstated, it doesn't feel like the hellish nightmare that it can sometimes seem like when things are really bad. But the flip side is that the positive communication or interactions can leave you hoping, leave you feeling love. A really difficult thing to sit with. I feel you on that one! You're not alone:)

[heartandwhole]

Hi JJacks0,

I can understand your feelings. It makes sense that you haven't detached. You love her and miss her, and when there is regular contact between you, and she enjoys your company so much, that makes it hard to let go of the goodness that you shared.

The fact that she wants to be friendly, but not in a romantic relationship with you might have something to do with the tendency for the intimate partners of someone with BPD becoming their trigger for very uncomfortable feelings. Once you are seen in a certain light, I think it is hard for pwBPD to let themselves get too close, for fear of triggering emotions that are hard to deal with (e.g., abandonment/engulfment fears). So, from a distance, she still has a connection with you, but it just may be "far" enough that her issues won't be unduly triggered.

I wish I had some idea what was going on inside her head. It would make it a lot easier for me to make decisions regarding our contact/lack of contact if I understood her intentions better.

I think the more important question is what is going on inside of your head, and what are your intentions? It sounds like you are willing to bend what you need and want to what works best for her. If you know that being her friend is too hard for you right now, then I'd recommend taking a time out. If you think you can continue seeing her and accept that fact that you are no longer in a romantic relationship with her, and may not ever be again, then I'd encourage you to continue to learn about communication skills, boundaries, etc. from the Improving board to help make the best friendship you can out of this.

I think you have to detach from the romantic relationship before you can attempt a friendship with her. Instead of waiting for her to determine the direction you take, I encourage you to put yourself and your needs first. That is what she is likely doing, after all. Someone has to look out for you. 

heartandwhole

[JJacks0]

Thank you both for your replies.

To answer your questions, H&W, the things going on inside my head are prone to change.
I'll sit down and talk with a friend about the relationship, feel strong for a moment and ultimately decide that it's best that we're apart. But then I'll get to missing her and throw logic out the window.
At present, I'm not so interested in a friendship only - not without any chance for a future relationship.
I just don't look at her that way, I still love her too much.

When I have seen her I've sort of hoped that she left feeling the same way I did, but that's probably unreasonable. I also question whether she would even allow herself to feel that way.

[Grey Kitty]

At present, I'm not so interested in a friendship only - not without any chance for a future relationship.

I've got a tough question the someday-be-more-than-friends option you are interested in:

There was a reason you broke up with her. Don't know the story whether she initiated it, or whether you initiated it, but it doesn't matter. There WERE reasons. Going back to "how it was before" will bring all those reasons back, along with all the good things you want back.

Has she changed in a way that will make the reasons for splitting up no longer relevant?

Have you changed? Either stopped doing things that were hard for her, or learning how not to engage in ugly/toxic patterns with her?

In other words, if she was willing to give it another shot, what would be different?

[JJacks0]

I'm not sure if she's changed. I do think that life experiences have forced her to mature, but I haven't been around her enough to be able to gauge that, especially since the nature of our relationship is different now.

However, I do know that I have changed. My perspective is so different. I've learned a lot about how to better manage myself and how to react to her. I really think that I understand her more than I ever have during the 6 years we lived together. I have a lot of regrets about the way that the r/s ended, and often wish that I had fought harder to keep our home together. But in reality I'm not sure I would have gotten to this place that I'm in now without time apart - it was too hard while living under the same roof in the midst of everything.

Unfortunately, time apart seems to have had an opposite effect on her - she's grown distant, has seemingly detached, and I feel that I trigger her abandonment fears. I wish there were some way to show her how genuinely different things are for me now. I really was in a different place before - I didn't know how to trust her after things that had happened, I was afraid to get too close again and I was stand-offish as a result. Now that I understand things better I feel like I could avoid a lot of those problems. But her fear has made her feel differently toward me. She doesn't want a romantic relationship with me anymore, at least that's what she says. I honestly feel like it's due to fear, and her detachment is her coping mechanism. She used to love me so much, I don't understand how that could just go away. I really don't know what to do. I've been getting by one day at a time, but I feel so awful without her. I feel like I made such a terrible mistake and I wish I had known better then.

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, the lessons you learn in a separation like this are priceless. (And they better be, considering the cost!    )

She used to love me so much, I don't understand how that could just go away. I really don't know what to do.

BPD black and white thinking is probably "how" she could change like that; She has to blame everything on you, to avoid thinking about the horrible things she did that contributed to the end.

What is more important is that she can go from loving you that much and being that sweet and caring... .to "feeling nothing" or hating you. Even if deep inside her, things are more complicated.

What matters is that you should expect this kind of cycle to keep happening if you do get back together. Can you risk that?

[heartandwhole]

I feel like I made such a terrible mistake and I wish I had known better then.

Hi JJacks0,

Your feelings are really understandable. I know it hurts. Many of us here have felt exactly as you do.   The thing is, though, that even if you had behaved near-perfectly nearly all the time, she may have left anyway. That is the all too common reality of a romantic relationship with someone with BPD.

Be gentle with yourself, and I encourage you to reflect on Grey Kitty's question.

heartandwhole

[JJacks0]

BPD black and white thinking is probably "how" she could change like that; She has to blame everything on you, to avoid thinking about the horrible things she did that contributed to the end.

The weird thing is that when we hung out about a month ago as friends, she made a comment about how she knows that she put me through hell, but that she also is still angry about the way that I acted in our last months together. I'm surprised that she would have that type of awareness at all then.
 

What is more important is that she can go from loving you that much and being that sweet and caring... .to "feeling nothing" or hating you. Even if deep inside her, things are more complicated.

In July we went 9 days NC and then she called me, told me how much she loved me, missed me, and didn't want to see anybody else. She said she wanted to get back together so I went to her house that evening. She ran up, hugged me, kissed me, was affectionate for a good portion of the night, but by the end she had grown cold and distant. I called her when I got home and she told me that it had been a mistake, that it didn't feel the way she thought it should, and that we should move on and date other people. She's never said that she hated me, but she has said that she isn't *in* love with me anymore and does act like she feels nothing for me now. We lived together for 6 years and yes, we had episodes like this to a much lesser degree - once I caught her texting inappropriate things to a coworker, once I caught her looking at a dating website, once I got my own place while she entered a DBT program, but she quit it and moved in with me within about a month. Once she took all her stuff to her parents' house and said we were done, but she brought it all back the next day. I really wish that I had written down everything that happened because the details become blurry now. If I had done that I could go back and try to pinpoint the triggers. But here we're going on 3.5 months of being completely broken up - no push, pull - she has firmly decided that it's over. And prior to that was about 3 months of the back and forth behavior. This time I'm sure is different because her mother passed away. That has changed her and I seem to trigger bad memories of that for her. She felt like I wasn't around enough after her passing and now I guess I generate a feeling that reminds her of how awful she felt right after her mother passed. She acknowledges that it isn't fair, because 95% of that bad feeling is sadness over her mother, not me. But she has told me that she doesn't differentiate between those feelings - only remembers the way she felt and assigns it all to me not being home enough.

What matters is that you should expect this kind of cycle to keep happening if you do get back together. Can you risk that?

Logically, I know how chaotic that could be. But I feel so terrible without her, at this point I really would be willing to risk it for another chance.

[Grey Kitty]

You know yourself.

I'm counseling you to expect her (hypothetical) next chance to include behavior hard to distinguish from the last chance she gave you.

You are free to hope it will be different.

I don't see much to make that look likely.

I still think you should do what is right for you. Should that opportunity come up, you will figure out what you need to do.