Things getting worse and better.

[PFCI]

So now I feel pretty drained.  I don't have any time to deal with my wife.  I've quite heavily disconnected, so no matter what she tries, I almost never bite.  I just reply in a civil way, and spend most of my time in another part of the house, if she's being unpleasant.  And recently, she is, more and more, because of my disengagement and refusal to engage, I guess.

So while we're getting on worse, personally I'm staying out of arguments and stuff, and doing things I enjoy as and when I can, so I'm feeling better.  Getting worse and better.


I finally told someone about my situation, too.  Which was interesting.  Feels good not to hide it. 

I'm definitely depressed at the moment, though.  And some behavior of mine has been pretty risk taking and not good.  So I need to work on those things.

Not sure what the point of this post is.  Just to talk about it, I guess.

[formflier]

  I've quite heavily disconnected, so no matter what she tries, I almost never bite. 

Very good.  Your feelings are valid and predictable as you move to another phase.  Your wife is "trying to get you back" to the old you... .and is likely frustrated that you aren't biting.

This is a sign of progress.

What can be done by you, to get you more energy to "spend"?

What can be done by you, to reorganize the energy you have, to free up some energy?

I would like you to start being deliberate about engaging your wife, in a healthy way about doing restorative things together.  Such as taking a walk, where you can be at your best and be on your guard for her to sabotage.  Be present in her world for a bit, "lean in" to the r/s just a bit and if she does something really bad, finish the walk yourself. 

Things like that.

Big picture:  It's not your job to fix your wife's world and bad attitude.  It is your job to plant seeds that you wife can choose to let grow that make take your r/s to a better place.  She can also choose to stomp the seedling.  Don't freak out when she stomps it... .or when she lets it grow.  It's her choice.

Remember... .it's just a seed.  Didn't take that much energy to plant it... .maybe a little water here and there.

FF

[PFCI]

I'm filing a domestic violence report now.

[Panda39]

Has something happened?

Panda39

[PFCI]

Has something happened?

Panda39

yeah, ive got a fat lip and i got smashed round the head with a recorder. she alo tried to kick me down the stairs.

[formflier]

   

Stay strong... file the report.  Talk to your L.  Don't turn back.

Chips will fall where they fall.

I hate this for you. 

FF

[PFCI]

At least It's making the decision to stay or leave easier. This level of violence can't be accepted. i doubt the police caution will have done much.good. of she'd actually managed to kick me down the stairs, I'd be in hospital now probably. if its a knife or paor of scissors instead of a recorder next time... .

[formflier]

Have you retained a Japanese lawyer?   Top priorities are making sure that you completely understand the law, have someone dedicated to you side of the law, so the chance of missteps are low.

And that you maximize you chances for physical safety.

The rest can be handled later.

   

Hang in there.

FF

[PFCI]

So bizarre.  She's all sweetness and light now.  

She started to make things back to normal Sunday morning.  It's clear she's very scared I'll leave.  Tears and everything, but no apology.  

Something the really shocked or upset her happened whist I was at the police station and the cops came round. She won't tell me what, just that something happened. I'm sure my oldest son was awake at that point, but she's made sure he won't tell me.  Also had him spying on me Saturday when she was at work, to check if I was packing, I guess.

She actually seems committed to changing, but I don't believe she can or will in the long run.  

Amazing she thinks things are ok now... .
Still, going to the cops seems to have had some effect.   Deffo the correct thing to do.

[formflier]

Amazing she thinks things are ok now... .
 

Please focus on what she does and says... .let her think... .whatever she wants to think. 

What happens now with police? Is there a charge? 


Big picture stuff:  What signals will you give her when she is nice or mean to you.  Start thinking about things on a 1-10 scale.  10 being worst or best... .depending on good or bad scale.  0 is really no "message" she is sending you.  Zero is neutral... .  Remember... .your goal is "neutrality", which should result in calmness around the house and stability for your entire family, especially your child.

So... .when she sends you a "signal", try to remember to "cut it in half, in the direction of neutral".

She approaches you and gives you a compliment that you consider a "positive 2", you should give her some sort of positive 1 in response.  She gives you a massive gift, combined with mind-blowing sex,  and you rank it a positive 8... .yep... .you got it.  Giver her a positive 4 in return.  A nice card and flowers perhaps.

Let's assume that she gives you a negative 10... .nuclear bad (perhaps she just did), give her some sort of negative 5 in return.

Think back on big things in your r/s.  It is likely that you may figure out that when she gave you a negative 6, you gave her a negative 8 or 9... .and she went bonkers.  Likely accused you of overreacting... .all the while ignoring what she did or any connection between her negative 6 input and your reaction.

Let her be the emotional outlier

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

At least It's making the decision to stay or leave easier. This level of violence can't be accepted. i doubt the police caution will have done much.good. of she'd actually managed to kick me down the stairs, I'd be in hospital now probably. if its a knife or paor of scissors instead of a recorder next time... .

Sorry, I do not know your whole story.  (Don't have access to history atm to read and brush up). So idk if this is new, the violence.  Anyway... .

It is a bit alarming to me that she was violent, and now is acting sweet.  Seems typical abusive dynamics though, not typical for isolated abusive incidents, but typical of abusive cycle.  

She has had her violent release, now is trying to reestablish prior homeostasis, then anxiety will build again, and likely will escalate to another abusive burst.

Speaking as someone who was in abusive cycle dynamic and in MC to address... .
To break the cycle... .
One cannot reengage back into the relationship at all UNLESS/UNTIL the abuse has been professionally addressed and both parties acknowledge and understand that the ONLY way for a relationship to continue is to NOT revert back to trying to regain the old relationship in anyway.  The only way to break the pattern is to have both parties admit there was abuse, face it head on by both, the reunite as a DIFFERENT couple.

Allowing a reuniting by skipping the steps, just is reengaging in the abusive dynamic.

Allowing her to pretend all is fixed, enjoying the moment, disconnecting and putting aside what happened, and thinking one will get to it later, is still engaging in the abusive dynamic.

Allowing the honeymoon phase after abuse,
IS the abusive dynamic even tho it may feel like relief
It IS Part of abuse cycle!

Please don't fool yourself that she is not behaving abusive.
Creating a honeymoon phase after abuse is still the abusive dynamic at play.

After abuse, I learned in MC
Whole relationship needs to come to a FULL STOP halt until abuse is dealt with PROPERLY.
No validating tools
No trying to engage in any way at all
Only distance, being boring, being disconnected are going to keep this in a limbo to get the parties to a T or MC or such WITHOUT starting the whole abusive cycle rolling again.  Accepting the honeymoon phase of abuse, and working within that in any manner, just invalidates the abuse as being as important as it NEEDS to be treated in order to end it forever.

If you respond to her kindness, she will never have to hear the correct response for abuse.  It validates the invalid in a relationship. It allows the start of the next cycle from honeymoon, to that low level agitation... .

Stop it at the honeymoon is always best
Leaves the last impression at Abuse, where it belongs, unfinished, until willing to address it correctly.

The abuse needs to be treated like a fork in the road... .
Only two options
1. You are leaving
2. We are both establishing that this is an abusive cycle and both seeking individual counseling until therapists deem this is a safe relationship.

Reengaging without that ultimatum leaves a grey space in which an abusive cycle IS actively happening via honeymoon phase.

[formflier]

2. We are both establishing that this is an abusive cycle and both seeking individual counseling until therapists deem this is a safe relationship.

Reengaging without that ultimatum leaves a grey space in which an abusive cycle IS actively happening via honeymoon phase.

Sunflower brings up an important point.

I'm a bit concerned about using an ultimatum, unless PFCI is really ready to leave.  Plus, I don't understand Japanese law.

PFCI controls himself and I think it would be perfectly appropriate for him to fine a counselor that specializes in abuse in relationships and start going... .and invite his wife.

Perhaps in the police process they can "nudge" or force her to go, I have concerns about PFCI being the one trying to force her.

Thoughts?

FF

[PFCI]

The abuse needs to be treated like a fork in the road... .
Only two options
1. You are leaving
2. We are both establishing that this is an abusive cycle and both seeking individual counseling until therapists deem this is a safe relationship.

Reengaging without that ultimatum leaves a grey space in which an abusive cycle IS actively happening via honeymoon phase.

Thanks, that's really useful information.

I'm keeping my distance.  I know this is just the start of the same cycle.  She can go up and down on that roller coaster as much as she likes, but I need to keep it calm and fairly level.  Try to, anyway.

[Sunfl0wer]

Perhaps in the police process they can "nudge" or force her to go, I have concerns about PFCI being the one trying to force her.

Thanks for helping clarify... .

When I used the term ultimatum, was not at all meaning something you announce.

I was thinking one you keep in your head.  Just to know your own values and stick by them.

I would keep myself mentally stuck on it as an ultimatum in my own head!

So if my SO says, why are you not joining me to the store, I like your company... .
In my head:  She has become physically violent, no admitting, no addressing it = NO, I do not participate in a relationship with a cycle of abuse.
Outloud I would behave boring: Oh, just not interested.

So if my SO says, I love the dinner you made, you are awesome cook, leans in to kiss me.
In my head: Nope, I was assaulted, and until we face that fairly, I am risking assault long term.
Out loud: (stated plainly) Thanks

I would in all of my behavior, being bland, boring, detaching.
Only think that would make me switch gears is if my SO sought treatment for the violence, and I was given a green light by my own T.

I would keep myself intentionally STUCK on the incident.  Never allowing myself to move forward until the Fork splits one way or the other.  Either it will end.  Or SO will get reformed and relationship will get remade.

Imo, anything else is invalidating that violence is 100% acceptable to ever happen again.

At some point, if partner wants to talk, seems eager to resolve or such, I may explain that I feel the relationship is unsustainable with this abusive cycle dynamic that now exists, therefore, until it has been dealt with, until SO attends treatment, then integrates me into it, and we have more security and understanding about how things got to that point, AND that they will never again get to that point, I'm not willing to have a relationship.. Ugh! Now to announce this to partner or not, idk!  Depends on the situation!

Sorry, that part idk.  Maybe FF, you know better.  Cause Idk history and all.  Idk, how likely being frank or blunt is to cause more violence.  Idk, if it is best to stay boring now, or what.

I certainly wouldn't try to make SO do anything!
I would explain it more like a boundary, and boundary enforcement.
Leave the option to the SO.
If SO expresses desire to take action to resolve, I'd be supportive somewhat, but remain dry, boring, uninvested, until some accountability and ACTUAL change needed to not simply reenter on a honeymoon phase was demonstrated, and approved by T to not be a smokescreen or such.

In my relationship, we were actually able to reconnect again somewhat after the incident, and it did not happen in a honeymoon fashion.  There was a tone of seriousness, respect, thoughtfulness, caution, awareness on both sides.  It was NOT at all comfy like pretending something huge didn't occur.  There was sorta a reverence of what happened and it shaded things moving forward.  

(Kinda how I imagine musta been after you told wife no hitting kids, idk tho)

... .

[formflier]

I would keep myself intentionally STUCK on the incident.  Never allowing myself to move forward until the Fork splits one way or the other.  Either it will end.  Or SO will get reformed and relationship will get remade.
 
... .

Yes... .yes... .yes...

This is a great mindset.  

I would add... .work in forgiveness.  With a clear mind that forgiveness and forgetting are totally different.

For instance.  It is likely (I'm ok either way) that I will never again have a r/s with my wife's family where I go "hang out" with them.

They all know the issues I'm "stuck" on.  I value myself and how those issues relate to me enough to not "pretend"... .even for a day.  

I don't hate them... .honestly... .I have forgiven them.  I understand how her family came to be how they are.  Basically my FIL and MIL both had fathers that were horrible.  Therefore... .they "look" for bad men... .and find them everywhere.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Thanks, I know this is about PFCI and not me... .

Yet, I specifically thought my advice on intentionally remaining stuck would cause others to speak out against that.  I was scared to write it, glad I did.

My ex often counted on Time erasing his deeds.  He used ST as a way to remove himself from the consequences of his actions, then reenter when he felt a honeymoon phase could be experienced.

I appreciate how you make the distinction between forgiveness and forgetting. 
Agreed! Not the same at all!

Not saying to throw her behavior in her face.

Just saying
Silently
Make up your mind
Your values
Your boundaries

And honor them

Accepting anything less... .
Well
Is simply
Less

Is how I realized I was not allowing myself to exist
How I was accepting things that shouldn't be
(By succumbing to the honeymoon phase)
Which then cause me eventual resentment. (So instead of being angry at his abuse, I then transferred the anger inside, to me, angry at myself for accepting Less, then angry at him for participating in me accepting Less, the cycles keep rolling)
As my conflict turned inward as I rode thru the next honeymoon phase
Feeling good that I was finally being treated how I felt I should, (or even too good)
I was deceiving myself.

In the end
Realized
I gotta life with myself way longer than any SO

(Pardon the long windedness.  Concise is a challenge over here, Ugh!)

[formflier]

Yet, I specifically thought my advice on intentionally remaining stuck would cause others to speak out against that.  I was scared to write it, glad I did.
 

Not really speaking out against it... .just want to make sure it is looked at from a certain point of view.

When dealing with a pwBPD... .pragmatism is key.  If you get to a place that "works"... .and gives you quality of life... .likely best to go with it.

So... in PFCIs situation... .she may never... ever "own" that she did a wrong thing by hitting him.  But, if it never happens again... .and she changes her behavior.  Perhaps... .and I stress perhaps... .PFCI moves on with his life with her and a big boundary in place.  Also being ready for her to own it years later.

FYI... .my wife finally "admitted" during biblical counseling that her hitting the kids "was not the best parenting".  Of course that was after she and BC listened to her administering a beating.

On the one hand it's not "good enough" for me and maybe that's all she will ever be able to do.

Bottom line:  She hasn't used any physical discipline in years.  She knows that if it comes back, I won't hesitate to act.  Oddly enough, she complains about it from time to time.  Yep... .complains that she isn't allowed to spank.  I don't bite.

FF

[PFCI]

Thanks for the advice, it's important that I don't let things slip. 

I went to the police because I needed something big to happen. 

Just setting boundaries wasn't working. 

If I just let things return to normal, what was the point?  She already has, but doesn't mean I have to.

By the way, the cops gave me a choice of verbal warning, written warning or having her arrested.

I chose verbal warning.  But if it happens again, I'll move up to the next step.

Also, the record of my domestic violence complaint stays on the record at the local police station, which I felt was also important for the future, should I divorce her.

[Sunfl0wer]

Humm, I guess my boundaries on physical violence are just that, mine.  It is a deal breaker for me these days.  Yet, I personally would, under certain mitigating circumstances, allow my SO to earn their way back, if indeed there was an acknowlegement and proper work done to stop the cycle.  Not any circumstance, just certain ones.

Maybe part of the important point is that with you FF, you did find a way to "put a cap" on the behavior. It is kinda different when the abuse involve kids.  Your wife well knew that you would report her, and well, the protective agencies are NOT going to give you a choice of a verbal, or written warning or arrest.  They will immediately act in a way they feel is best for the safety of the kids.  Your wife is motivated, it seems, by how she feels this would make her look.

I am not sure the elements are the same in this way... .regarding FF kids and PFCI (Even though I AM the one who brought it up).

The way abuse is handled in a relationship, communicates strongly, what IS and IS not acceptable.  I still would be pursuing detaching, unless, and until, sufficient acknowlegement was shown, and the cycle ENDS!  No honeymoon phase, no pretending it isn't a real existing fear, no regressing back to more subtle abusive cycles and feeling grateful that it isn't "as bad" as the last time. 

Just, my opinion is my own I suppose.

I hope your wife gets the message, loud and clear, via behavior and words... .
Her life should be drastically and significantly changed and quite uncomfortable for many weeks... .Her world should be shook up for a while, until she "gets it" is NOT ok!  Because of HER actions of abuse AND until she expresses some insight to help restabilize things WITH awareness and acceptance of her abuse and how it impacted things.

I wonder if that part was helpfull to you FF? That her life and her impression of stuff was drastically changed in how she felt she could/couldn't "get away" with stuff?

Idk, Yet, again, my opinions... .
Eh

[Sunfl0wer]

I went to the police because I needed something big to happen.  

Just setting boundaries wasn't working.

If you went to police, to change her behavior, I suspect not much will change long term.

Setting boundaries is not about changing the behavior of another.

It is about sticking to YOUR values and living them, for real, without apology or fear for how another will respond to that.

It is about making this about YOU.
Getting serious that this is about YOU.
And demanding that if people want to exist in your space, that they do it with respect, without violence or not at all, and that you are absolutely willing to walk away.

If you went to police, or if you disconnect for a period of time... .
Just to prove a point... .
It communicates... .
Wait long enough after physical assault, and PFCI will be available again.
(Withdrawing from someone to punish them, to teach them a lesson, to change them, actually is engaging in abusive dynamics.  Doing it to gain self clarity, enforce a value/boundary, is not.)

If you want to communicate ownership of behavior... .
It will take way more than a slap on the wrist and waiting you out a few weeks.

[PFCI]

If you went to police, to change her behavior, I suspect not much will change long term.

Setting boundaries is not about changing the behavior of another.

It is about sticking to YOUR values and living them, for real, without apology or fear for how another will respond to that.

It is about making this about YOU.
Getting serious that this is about YOU.
And demanding that if people want to exist in your space, that they do it with respect, without violence or not at all, and that you are absolutely willing to walk away.

If you went to police, or if you disconnect for a period of time... .
Just to prove a point... .
It communicates... .
Wait long enough after physical assault, and PFCI will be available again.

If you want to communicate ownership of behavior... .
It will take way more than a slap on the wrist and waiting you out a few weeks.

I guess I went for me, not for her.  I've always been scared that if I do something big like that, then I'll lose... .her?  My marriage?  My kids?  I'm not sure, but I broke through the fear barrier and did it.

I guess, after 11 years of living cowed by fear, it's breaking free step by step.   I've got a long way to go, but if it happens again, I'll be sure to remove myself more quickly, and without fear consequences (because it turns out there aren't any, for me, go figure).  Nothing has really changed.  It's very odd.

It was an interesting experience, and I learned many things.  I need to workout what they mean, and where to go from here next. 

[Sunfl0wer]

I guess I went for me, not for her.  I've always been scared that if I do something big like that, then I'll lose... .her?  My marriage?  My kids?  I'm not sure, but I broke through the fear barrier and did it.

I guess, after 11 years of living cowed by fear, it's breaking free step by step.   I've got a long way to go, but if it happens again, I'll be sure to remove myself more quickly, and without fear consequences (because it turns out there aren't any, for me, go figure).  Nothing has really changed.  It's very odd.

It was an interesting experience, and I learned many things.  I need to workout what they mean, and where to go from here next.

Sorry for seeming negative.  Yea, idk your story.
(I have no access to history to update self)
Also, probably nicer for me to ask than sound like a lecture.

My husband was abusive, had to go to police few times.
Pretty much had Stockholm, so yea, was not easy making even small steps to do my own thing.

Sounds like you are really trying to break free of abusive patterns.
I like how you say "step by step."
I think that is a good way to think of things.

Again, sorry for seeming pushy like... .
Just makes me sad to see a relationship get to that point of a busted lip and all.
Had to go to ER myself and documented my injuries.

Glad though you seem to be keeping your wits about you, learning still from the cruddy stuff... .Important stuff.

Easier to see another persons patterns, wasn't so easy to see my own.  Had some less abusive relationships following that... .Less abuse... .Well, is still abusive.  So it is tricky stuff imo, to stop a cycle.

Warm thoughts,

Sunflower

[formflier]

My .02 worth. 

If there is a next time.  Go for the arrest. 

Had I known there were options this time... .I would have recommended arrest.

Not saying you did anything wrong... .and I would be interested in the take of a Japanese L.  Especially one that knows divorce law. 

Part of the reason that I did things the way I did... .was to "force" things in T.  The written agreement we had with social services said we each agreed to "comply" with our family T and MC.

By and large, good things came from that.


FF

[empath]

I guess, after 11 years of living cowed by fear, it's breaking free step by step.   I've got a long way to go, but if it happens again, I'll be sure to remove myself more quickly, and without fear consequences (because it turns out there aren't any, for me, go figure).  Nothing has really changed.  It's very odd.

It is freeing to decide to do something different, especially to speak the truth about our situation to others. As you do it more, it gets a bit easier. The thing that is changing is you.

As one who has experienced physical violence with both myself and our kids, I am in the 'in-between' stage, staying stuck on the abuse and requiring it to be addressed before our relationship can really be restored. For me, it has been nearly 2 years since the critical incident. My work during that time has been on myself, getting myself healthy and able to do the things that I need to do - especially developing a support system in person that gives me on the ground support and other people to turn to besides my husband. I have older kids at home, too, so I'm trying to ensure their sense of safety as well (d12, and d20).

My husband on the other hand does not seem to be making much progress.

I encourage you to find a lawyer who can give you more specific advice and who understands the family and divorce law in Japan. I would also recommend getting things in writing at least when they pertain to your wife; it is easy to deny things that have not been documented.

It is a difficult step to take to bring in the police, but you did it.

[PFCI]

As one who has experienced physical violence with both myself and our kids, I am in the 'in-between' stage, staying stuck on the abuse and requiring it to be addressed before our relationship can really be restored. For me, it has been nearly 2 years since the critical incident. My work during that time has been on myself, getting myself healthy and able to do the things that I need to do - especially developing a support system in person that gives me on the ground support and other people to turn to besides my husband.
 
I would also recommend getting things in writing at least when they pertain to your wife; it is easy to deny things that have not been documented.

It is a difficult step to take to bring in the police, but you did it.

Recently, I told my boss about my situation.  It's the first human I've told face to face.

He never asked about my bruised face, though.  Maybe he knows?

I'm also telling other people, including the local police. 

Trying to start up real friendships again (my wife destroyed all the old ones to isolate me), so I have a support network.

Slowly, I'm changing things.

For evidence, I run a locked twitter account.  I write on there what has happened, so I have dated evidence.  Upload pictures, too. 

Also, this site will provide dated evidence. 

Next step is too meet a lawyer.  Work though December is crazy, but in January I'll sort it out.

Thanks for the advise and support.