Can a BPD go back to friendship after you've crossed line of emotional closeness

[Julia S]

First post here but I’ve been reading the discussions for a while and find them helpful and sensible.
My situation is that I have a friend whom I’d known mostly online but also in person for a couple of years. I liked him because of the things we had in common and his attitude to them. Then it became more romantic, though not a full on relationship. He told me how his parents had let him down, as had the women he’d been in long term relationships with, and that he was never going to be in a relationship again. But his actions said different, and I thought he was simply very shy, and scared by previous bad experiences.
As we got closer, though affectionate rather than physically intimate, he told me more about his variety of mental/psychological problems, and I noticed high moods, like fantasies, and also down moods and rants. But there was no outward anger, and he was always gentle in actions and attitude.
It reached the point where I felt I could tell close friends I was seeing someone, when suddenly he told me he couldn’t handle it because his emotions were getting out of control, and that we had to stay as friends. He also said he knew there was something wrong with him, that he knew he wasn’t bipolar and wished he knew what it was.
I have training in psychology and CBT techniques amongst other things, as well as a long term online friend who’d told me about her BPD some years ago. So it didn’t take me long to work out the underlying cause of his problems. I cross-checked what he’d told me and what I’d observed with various professionals and am certain BPD/emotional dysregulation would be the main diagnosis if he were assessed today. I told him because he pressed me to, and because there was no-one else likely to, and he had a right to know there was help available.
Unfortunately, although he said we had to stay as friends, I think I’d already crossed that line of emotional closeness. And in any interaction we’ve had since, he’s behaved very erratically towards me, sometimes friendly, sometimes blaming and devaluing, as though I am/was a romantic partner, sometimes ghosting, ignoring messages, and gaslighting, denying any problems despite having told me about them. As a result, I’ve had 3 months of quite serious depression, having not had anything like this before. I’ve not had any contact for several weeks now, and I don’t think he’ll initiate any because he’s also avoidant. But there is a danger I’ll bump into him at some point. Also, I told him that if he wanted to seek treatment I would support him, so I don’t want to completely block him from contacting me.
I’m coming to terms with the fact he wouldn’t be capable of a relationship. But I miss the friendship we had before. And the unresolved part of this for me is wondering whether he can ever go back to that, or whether, having crossed the line, he’ll always be mentally abusive to me.

[Lonely_Astro]

Hi 

Sorry to hear youre going through this. As you know, those with a cluster B disorder have major issues with interpersonal relationships.  Since they have no sense of self, they are always in flux. I have always used the "seesaw" analogy. The relationship is the seesaw. On one end is fear of abandonment, the other fear of engulfment. Most of us can balance the seesaw. When we start moving to one end, we slow down and back up a little. The seesaw stays balanced.

pwBPD plunge headlong toward one end of the seesaw, then about face and run toward the other end without slowing down. They constantly do this. Eventually the seesaw is knocked way out of control, so the pwBPD (typically) finds a new seesaw. That seesaw is stable. It's safe. So they'll straddle the two seesaws to balance them. But that old seesaw isn't safe anymore. After all, it wasn't stable before, so they no longer trust the old seesaw. So they eventually leave that old seesaw for the new "stable" one (it's perfect) only to start the process all over again.

Can you be friends afterward?  My experience has always been no, unfortunately. Friendship requires mutual respect and trust. My experience has been that the pwBPD doesn't respect or trust themselves so how can they respect or trust you?  The flip side to that is some can have a "friendship" with a pwBPD if you're willing to accept that it will never be mutually beneficial. It can't be. It certainly can't be if you were once amorous.

My advice is to grieve for the loss of the relationship as much as you need to. The person you remember and in some ways love, isn't that same person today. I've been there. I know. What's important now is that you heal for you. You didn't break him nor are you responsible for how he is doing today (or not doing). I understand you're hurting. It's ok to miss him. I miss my ex (who I see everyday because we work together along with my replacement). Certain things about her. I reminisce about the good times, too.

You're among friends. Keep posting and keep healing.

[Hopefulgirl]

Went through almost the exact same thing as you Julia. Speaking from experience, being close friends with someone with BPD after being emotionally, if not physically invested, seems to go just fine for the guy with Bpd and anguish ridden for the other person. Like you, i was hoping to maintain a friendship but after ghosting away, silent treatment and such, like you, trying to maintain closeness turns into a painful experience.  From everything ive read people with BPD either drop you completely like you never existed or they never leave you alone.  He obviously wants to be in control of relationship, so the only thing you can do is to let him know you care and are there for him and carry on with your life. Youv'e left the ball in his court and he's going to dribble it for awhile . The confusion this brings will, and does, leave you depressed and you must always remind yourself this has nothing to do with you if he has BPD or anything like it.

[steelwork]

My ex begged me--made me promise--that we would always always be friends. Then he hooked up with someone else, and it turned out that "friends" to him meant lashing out at me after he told me about her, then preemptively blocking me everywhere. After that, he would be in touch when he wanted to complain about how awful his life was, even while I was the one who had been replaced and dumped, while refusing to talk about the truly insane thing that had happened between us. At the first sign that I wasn't happy with that arrangement, he lashed out again and then disappeared. Friends like that I don't need.

In retrospect, I realized that he really didn't have friends in the way I understand them. I don't think he knows what friendship is. Relationships are either torrid or superficial.

[Renard]

But I miss the friendship we had before. And the unresolved part of this for me is wondering whether he can ever go back to that, or whether, having crossed the line, he’ll always be mentally abusive to me.

Julia S,

What you describe is outside my experience, so I can't offer real direct insight for you. That said, I think it's important to say the people who with BPD traits suffer from a disorder that makes it possible to speak of them as a group, yet it's also true that each of them displays the disorder in various ways and in varying degrees of severity. For this reason it's possible to say that no contact is the only way to manage such relationships, and it's also possible for some in such relationships to try the road of radical acceptance. I encourage you to keep using the resources and discussions on this site and to think on why you remain in the relationship and why you hope to preserve it.

[Infern0]

In my experience no, because they don't respect you anymore.

Once idealization is over even if you do go back to being "friends" the friendship will be one sided and consist of you being there for them and doing things for them if they need. And going away and shutting up when they don't need you.

And they will hook up with other people while feeding you a load of bs about why you can't be together.

Just my experience

[FindingMe2011]

Im wondering what your definition of a friend means. Since you were romantic, is this your way of justifying this r/s? Changing your rules for friendship from person to person, will become confusing... .If your honest with yourself, Im thinking, this person wasnt truly your friend. Detachment is hard/next to impossible, keep pulling the cobwebs, and dont make kneejerk decisions, PEACE

[woundedPhoenix]

Hey JuliaS,

It's really hard to stay friends, as once you have reached the point of no return - a certain form of closeness that scares them - a BPD will hide away in a detached state, which makes empathy or a two-way relationship impossible. It's about their needs only, your concerns and issues don't make their way in.

Sometimes when time passes by you may get a brief reconnect, which probably triggers them back into the detached state just as quick.

[apollotech]

Julia S,

Your question is one that I have myself pondered a great deal. I had hoped that I would read something encouraging regarding maintaining a friendship with a pwBPD after an intimate/emotional attachment had been formed and ended. Unfortunately, I never came across anything that supported the possibility of a normal friendship being maintained after the romance ended. In my particular situation, I---no, WE traded a 30+ year friendship for a 9 month romance that wrecked everything between us; needless to say, it was a terrible trade.

I always hated the phrase "once a trigger, always a trigger," but, I now believe that to be true. I don't think that a pwBPD can get past the engulfment issue once the intimate/emotional attachment has been formed. That engulfment is a nasty business; all the pushing ugliness shows up once it's triggered. Unfortunately, for both of us, me and my ex, I just don't see a future friendship between us. She just doesn't have the self-control, due to her disorder, needed to make friendship a possibility.

Everyone is different. You may have a better chance with your ex. Just be sure of your expectations, which should be based off of prior behaviors.

[FallBack!Monster]

I doubt my ex and I could ever be close again. She hurt me and couldn't help it. I was hurt for so long and it's not that she didn't care. It's that she doesn't understand what that type of pain feels is like. Therefore she cannot care. To her, about what? 
If my ex and I went to a hotel any day this week,, it would be magical. 2 years from now I bet it still would be. That's how she got me. That's how she kept me and that's probably how she keeps others too; friends and ex partners the same Why? Because she doesn't know what else she has to offer.  because the world has told her that she has nothing else to offer so now she 100℅ believes it. Or maybe she can see that's the only way she can keep humans around or coming back. Maybe she doesn't like knowing that. Maybe she doesn't care if that's how.  I cant say. Don't judge. I'm not calling her a h*e. I'm calling her a poor soul that has no sense of self. Furthermore, she stands for everything I'm against. Deceit and disloyalty and has no self love. Therefore, when I talk about loving myself she hates me.
Also, if we became so close/intimate and I've now become an extension of her, No boundaries, I'm thinking that's the reason why she turned horrible against me. She does not lovee herself therefore attachments get the same treatment she gives herself. Me and her are one. She treats all of her like crap and don't care. It would hurt her to care. So she just does.  Is what I think.
It's has been longer than long. Honestly, it is true it seems it takes longer to detach from a person with a PD in my case, BPD. Lots of unanswered questions, To myself which I will one day have answered and questions for her or about her which Wil never be answered. That's what I think is the reason for the long drawn-out, lingering attachment.
I am still attached if it means still feeling some type or any type of way about that my ex. Good bad or so so. 
My feelings, she always hated me and as long as I'm emotionally attached to the situation, she will hate me. Wish it was some love there and I could see it but frankly, I never did. So that's another puzzle to me. Guess I was too busy smelling instead of protecting myself.
When I'm in no way attached, she will know because she won't even recognize me in writing, so to speak.  But for now, good night folks and God bless. 

[FallBack!Monster]

No man. You'll break your own heart. Read. Big mistake if you do.  Someone said, you were her favorite toy. She has a few ex favorite toys. Only goes back in the toy chest now and again... .for that old toy. Toy chest full of toys like you. Played for a few months, got bored, got a new toy, and so it goes. Old toys not as exciting as new toys.  no matter the game plan. End of story.  Unless you want to play a game of porcelain, where you are it and she always gets to shi* on you.
No!

[Julia S]

Thanks for the replies. It's a subject I've not seen mentioned anywhere else. And this surprises me. Because although in my own case it is very disappointing and sad to think this person may not be able to be my friend again, in the case of people who have been married and have children, or who have to work together, it must be far more important.

To answer a few of the points raised in the replies:

The first encounter I had with BPD was an online friend telling me they had it, that they used a number of approaches to control it, and that they wondered whether it might be the cause of my panic attacks. So my initial view of the condition was that, in someone high functioning, it is something that can be managed providing they recognise and address it. As this long term friend identifies very strongly with the particular problems of the more recent friend, I do see a possibility of hope for him, if at some point he decides to address and attempt to treat it. However, I realise he's lived with it for a long time, has a good job, and financial security not dependent on the job, and other than relationships has found his own ways of coping.

While I do still feel attracted to him, that is being superseded by an acceptance of the reality of his limitations. The brush with romance was very brief and not physically intimate. I shrugged off his comparatively minor bad behaviour since, so he hopefully thinks it didn't affect me.

People in therapy do commonly become emotionally attached to their therapists, but are often able to resolve this. But of course, the fact they are in therapy means they are admitting and addressing their conditions, and hoping to manage them.

So I think, because I effectively diagnosed him and told him about the condition and why I thought it was what he had, and also told him a few starter self help techniques he could use, his ability to be a friend may depend on whether he decides to follow this up and at least try to address his problems in a healthier way.

Also, I realise people here have experiences with people who have the condition with very varying degrees of severity. And that people have different ways of dealing with those they have been romantically close to, I generally have no problem being friends.

[Artemis_bpd]

 " I think I’d already crossed that line of emotional closeness. And in any interaction we’ve had since, he’s behaved very erratically towards me, sometimes friendly, sometimes blaming and devaluing, as though I am/was a romantic partner, sometimes ghosting, ignoring messages, and gaslighting, denying any problems despite having told me about them. As a result, I’ve had 3 months of quite serious depression, having not had anything like this before. I’ve not had any contact for several weeks now, and I don’t think he’ll initiate any because he’s also avoidant... .
I’m coming to terms with the fact he wouldn’t be capable of a relationship. But I miss the friendship we had before. And the unresolved part of this for me is wondering whether he can ever go back to that, or whether, having crossed the line, he’ll always be mentally abusive to me."

[/quote]

This is what is happening to me now. Have been nice friends with pwBPD, no emotions yet. Just a good appreciation. But last month, unfortunately for me, he became emotional about our rs. I didn't know he was an uBPDp then, so I reacted as I normally would. I was frightened by his emotional intensity specifically about fear of abandonment. I was painted white, then black. What was once a beautiful friendship and mutual admiration turned black. All because I triggered in him an emotional storm. Right now we have decided somehow to stay away from each other. Not NC, I send him positive notes almost daily, but at a very far distance. I see signs of him wanting to come back, but I simply can't make myself return. He is a high functioning uBPDp, you wouldn't ever know his other side until one gets emotionally close to him and his illness gets triggered. And since I trigger intense emotions in him, I stay clear away. I think he knows that too, so he runs away, he was surprised himself with his lack of emotional control. So we keep our distance. I Do not know that the pBPD that I face will receive me with a smile or will cut me. It's a sad state, but then one has to be detached for self-protection. Hope my sharing helped.

[Warcleods]

My experience with pwBPD has shown me that emotional/physical closeness to a them causes a massive upheaval in their ability to cope with their already skewed sense of self.  The push/pull behavior is a direct representation of that.  My ex would want to be "friends," and then break her own boundaries within days of setting them.  This showed me that she was untrustworthy and had no impulse control.  Friendship means trust, and I don't want a friend whom I cannot trust.  On the surface, it seems like going from romantic partners to a friendship is better than no contact at all, but it's not.  Here's why, because one or both of you have probably have romantic feelings involved, and with pwBPD, this gives them the opportunity to avoid accountability in a monogamous relationship.  What you will soon find is that if you agree to "friendship," it won't be very long before they're out finding your replacement.  They love the chase but hate the catch.  Meanwhile, their lack of empathy towards how you may feel about what they're doing goes completely ignored.  You're setting yourself up for heartbreak.  If you truly want to be friends with this person, then you need to give yourself time to detach, actual time to detach to where their romantic actions no longer affect how you feel.  If that never happens then you know you cannot be their friend and it's best to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you could be hurt.

[Pretty Woman]

I don't believe they are capable of genuine friendship. I am NOT friends with my ex but she has a BFF she ignores when she secures a significant other. She speaks very poorly of this person once in a relationship. Her "friend" IS also a diagnosed BPD and uses my ex to buy her dinner, etc. To them that's friendship. To me it's enabling and using.

She is Facebook friends with a lot of people but none of them she hangs out with in real life. Even with exes, like many have stated, she strings them along. Several exes "surfaced" during our relationship. She was usually using them as an attachment to break up with me. All of a sudden these people were the love of her life, the one that got away... .and then she would coldly dump them and come back to me.

It's ridiculous really. Textbook BPD. If you want to be treated with even less respect than when you were in a relationship then do it, but I don't advise that kinda heartbreak.

[FallBack!Monster]

I just asked this question to a friend who had a bad break up. He said. Heck yeah I wold be friends with my ex. She always fun an exciting and unpredictable. That was fun.

[steelwork]

And that people have different ways of dealing with those they have been romantically close to, I generally have no problem being friends.

Julia S, I know what you mean. I'd never had an acrimonious breakup before this. Some of my closest friends are romantic partners of long ago, and even those I've lost touch with I think of fondly. Just a few weeks ago, I came across a postcard, sent to me by an old boyfriend a few weeks after our relationship ended. (He went back with an ex.) He wrote that he hoped I was well and he was sorry our relationship hadn't worked out. It was so sweet and normal and civil, and it made me want to cry with gratitude.

Truly, this has been the bitterest pill for me to swallow: the fact that, in the end, after all we'd been to each other, he just wanted me to go away and cease to exist. I've got my own abandonment issues, and it was and is the hardest thing to accept. It's no doubt the reason that, two years on, I'm still struggling.

[seeperplexed]

If my ex and I went to a hotel any day this week,, it would be magical. 2 years from now I bet it still would be. That's how she got me. That's how she kept me and that's probably how she keeps others too; friends and ex partners the same Why? Because she doesn't know what else she has to offer.  because the world has told her that she has nothing else to offer so now she 100℅ believes it. Or maybe she can see that's the only way she can keep humans around or coming back. Maybe she doesn't like knowing that. Maybe she doesn't care if that's how.  I cant say. Don't judge. I'm not calling her a h*e. I'm calling her a poor soul that has no sense of self. Furthermore, she stands for everything I'm against. Deceit and disloyalty and has no self love. Therefore, when I talk about loving myself she hates me.

It is painful how perfectly this summarized my feelings about my ex as well. She has proven time and time again that there is a connection, and that she is absolutely too sick to love herself enough to realize that I could love her for anything authentic or genuine. Very difficult.

[FallBack!Monster]

.

[FallBack!Monster]

Not sure what happened there. Glad I type into word before I post.

It is painful how perfectly this summarized my feelings about my ex as well. She has proven time and time again that there is a connection,

This I  completely get. I didn't realize at first it was describing a special connection. I was thinking more of sexual comparability but you're correct.

and that she is absolutely too sick to love herself enough to realize that I could love her for anything authentic or genuine. Very difficult.

Are you speaking of 2 different people? Do you mind explaining this?
Thanks



 

[lovenature]

Hey Julia

You already have a good handle on BPD and how a relationship evolves, there are members here who have only had a friendship with a PWBPD and the results are the same as a romantic partner; the closer you get, the more you are pushed away. I know in my case that my ex. went from just wanting to be friends and talk to me, I let her in (broke NC), then MINUTES later she is trying to seduce me; it is all about their current emotion of the moment.

I don't believe you can have a friendship with them once you have gotten too close; they do what ever they feel they must to maintain an attachment with you, only stands to reason they will go with what got them closest to you. So sad that the one thing they want more than anything (close, intimate relationship), their illness prevents from happening.

[nylonsquid]

My feelings, she always hated me and as long as I'm emotionally attached to the situation, she will hate me.

When I'm in no way attached, she will know because she won't even recognize me in writing, so to speak.  But for now, good night folks and God bless. 

In my experience, when things are settled and "nice" she stirs things up. When I give up and detach and not respond to her pleas or her behavior then she turns into a sweet girl and make me food, drinks and wants to spend time together.

Weird thing this BPD!