I know I made the right choice, but I'm struggling

[Ragnar1982]

Long story short, I just got out of a rollercoaster relationship with someone I believe to have BPD. My new therapist thinks so, too. After weeks of up and down conversations with her, I kept telling her I wasn't able to continue this relationship with her until she moves out of her exes house. I believe a majority of our 15 month, on and off again relationship, was actually her having an affair. Not all of it, but some of it that she admitted to. What I want to know is why over the last couple days of speaking to her last weekend, when we rehashed why I left her, and ultimately explained why I can't do this anymore, she messaged me Monday morning and said "Good morning! I hope you have a fabulous day ", to which I replied, "Good morning, you too", she never responded or said another word. That was 4 days ago, but I think it was her way of getting the last word in to make me cringe. My head has been a mess over the million things I'm not mentioning in this comment, but that just felt like the last manipulative dig. Am I overreacting? I still want things to work with her under different circumstances (she moves), but she has been future faking that for over a year. She claims she is on the verge of moving now, and I'm feeling guilty like I abandoned her and making a huge mistake. She tells me I am, at least. My head is in a vice over all of this, but why would she message me that and then just vanish?

[joeramabeme]

Hi Ragnar1982

Welcome to BPD Family!   

Sorry to hear about what you are going through but if your partner is a pwBPD, you have made it to the right place to discuss the situation.  You will find a lot of support and similar stories here.

BPD is an emotional attachment disorder, in other words, the traits of the disorder are often seen by the people that are closest to those that are impacted.  The hallmarks of BPD are unstable interpersonal relationships and a fear of abandonment. 

Reading through your post, I see that she seems to be afraid of getting too close to you and letting go of her ex.  Having two different people in her life could be a coping strategy to deal with the fear of abandonment. 

How do you feel about her still living at her ex's house?  Do you think that would diminish the possibility of her becoming emotionally intimate with you? (not necessarily physically intimate).

JRB

[Ragnar1982]

She told me Sunday that I was always number 1 in love. We talked about her lying, cheating on him with me, or vice versa. I don't know what to believe anymore. There was a period of time from May to July where we talked every day like everything was fine, but I never saw her during that time. She'd always cancel on me so the days quickly dragged into weeks. Come to find out, she was back with him during that time. And other times I think throughout the summer and fall. She once told me she keeps it from him because he'd see it as her having an affair. I think she is playing us both, but always tells me she is moving soon, and recently that I'm making a big mistake because we could have something wonderful when things are different. I think she's been leading me on for 15 months, to be honest. Things are always just about to change. She wants to marry me, etc.

Ultimately I told her Sunday (we broke up a month ago mind you) that I can't have a one sided relationship with her while she is still living there, and that if things change, maybe we can start over. I do love this woman. My kids do, too. I think I was a form of release for her to get away from the hell she lives in now. That's what scares me about all this. That it was never real for her, that I was used, and now I still feel like I'm waiting for something that won't come. This whole situation has caused me to begging behaving itratically, as if I'm the one with the problem. That isn't true, but I've been following my gut now instead of my heart. I'm so very lost. I want to just call her and say I can wait longer, but if I do I feel like I'm only enabling her. I also know what I can't handle at this point, and don't want to abandon her again because I do love her. It's such a mess in my head, but I've vowed to move on and not contact her and see what she does. If she wants to speak to me she will, and I think her last message was to show me once again "hey remember how nice and thoughtful I am?" and leave with control reestablished for herself by not replying to me. I feel crazy for even giving this thought and I'm in therapy now. I just want her, or want this to stop.

[infjEpic]

Why did she do it?

It could be anything - it could be her way of saying 'You don't matter to me, I'm over you already'.

There are all sorts of questions we will never know the answers to unfortunately.

and don't want to abandon her again because I do love her.

Just stop for a second.
Stand back.

Take a look at what you're saying here... .I'm not criticizing you, because I've been there - but you are not processing this rationally... .that is what happens to the abused in BPD relationships.

You have asked for fair treatment.
She is not capable of giving it. And I don't just mean physically, but emotionally.

Therefore... .you are abandoning her.

Do you feel this is a fair assessment of what is going on here? Or do you feel it's more of a BPD assessment?

Have you given yourself permission to move on?

Were a friend to tell you this story, as his own - would you have compassion for him?

I've vowed to move on and not contact her and see what she does.

If she is BPD, she will probably try to recycle you. At some stage.

Whether she is BPD or not, doesn't matter. This is abusive behaviour.

If she wants to speak to me she will, and I think her last message was to show me once again "hey remember how nice and thoughtful I am?"

Nice and thoughtful - is not leading someone on for 15 months, cheating and everything else you described in your brief post.

Your brief post is more than enough to establish this is a very unhealthy relationship.

and leave with control reestablished for herself by not replying to me. I feel crazy for even giving this thought and I'm in therapy now. I just want her, or want this to stop.

You're not crazy.
We've all been there.

You're temporarily brainwashed. Once you cut all forms of contact, you will begin to recover.

And you seem like a caring and thoughtful person, so I've no doubt you will find somebody who truly loves you and respects you.
It's not that she does not - it's that she cannot.


Honestly... .you deserve better.

[Ragnar1982]

That was incredibly insightful and helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time.  I'm in love with a ghost. That's all I keep telling myself. I'm in love with something that isn't real. There is so much to this story, as you can probably already imagine, but I'm grateful for your kind words. Thank you

[joeramabeme]

Hi Ragnar - Just wanted to add a few comments on to what infjEpic had to say.

She told me Sunday that I was always number 1 in love.

I have taken the liberty of making some highlighted points between what she said (implied and literally)and what you said.  Does this list resonate with being someone else's #1?:

SHE SAID (or implied)

• She wants to marry me
• we could have something wonderful when things are different
• she is moving soon
• Things are just about to change
• remember how nice and thoughtful I am

YOU SAID (speculating or literal)

• She'd always cancel on me
• it was never real for her
• Things are just about to change
• I'm making a big mistake
• I was used
• don't want to abandon her again

Ragnar, these are intense relationships and are loaded with fears, for both people.  It sounds as if you know what is going on but are uncomfortable with understanding your level of attraction, is that right?

If you could ask for and get anything you wanted from this relationship, what would it be?  And, do you think that you will get it?

[Ragnar1982]

I want to believe I would get all of the things we always talked about. We were awesome together when we actually get to see each other. She actually messaged me last night for the first time in 5 days saying Damn I miss you, and then called me around midnight. I didn't answer the message last night or pick up the phone because I was with someone else, but it makes me not want to move on and see what she wanted. I replied this morning in text saying I saw she messaged and called and hope everything is ok. I didn't want to bite on the I miss you stuff. Of course, now my head is a dumpster fire. She just told me to ignore it and was having a weak moment. And that she just wanted to hear my voice. I'm a mess

[FSTL]

I am LC with my BPDx (I can't do NC). I blocked her for a while before Christmas because she had sent me some hostile messages. The day I unblocked her (day after Christmas), she messaged me wishing me a Happy Christmas. I sent back a brief message which closed off the convo. She messaged me again on NYE, then against the next day. A couple of weeks later she then sent me an abusive message, claiming I had hit on her friends.

I asked her why she messaged me at Christmas and she said "because I wanted you to know I was thinking of you". I said that was confusing and she offered to stop. I said that's a good idea and she told me she "really didn't now why tbh" she did it. I said thanks, and left it at that.

Of course, she did contact me again.

It's all about keeping contact... .for all sorts of reasons. They're lonely, need the hole in their soul filled, want to keep their options only, get an ego boost out of knowing they could have you (in their dreams), or they are just going with whatever their feelings are telling you.

What I now accept is the last point - they have short term feelings about things and just go with it. No thought about the future and no empathy, so no concern that it messes with your head. It's all about them and not a bit about you.

Once you accept that, then you can just accept that them reaches out means nothing, other than whatever is going through their brain right at that moment.

They're not safe for that reason and can't have healthy relationships.

[Ragnar1982]

Yeah, she tried to drag me into a conversation after that asking how everything was on my end. I figured the best thing to do was say that she already knows how I feel and I don't want to get into it again. Of course she clarified saying she was asking about the kids, family, etc, but I think between last night and that message she just needs to know I'm missing her. I didn't give in and ended the conversation.  I doubt that's the last of it, but hopefully for the day or next several.

Thanks for the comment about not being able to think long term. That's probably why she has every excuse in the book for never leaving her ex's house. Or rather, I should probably say, their house.

[infjEpic]

It's all about them and not a bit about you.

Nail. Hammer. Head.

Once you accept that, then you can just accept that them reaches out means nothing, other than whatever is going through their brain right at that moment.

Agree, and also - we tend to project our emotions onto them (which is how we got conned in the first place).

So we might think, oh I feel sad, lonely, I miss her.
Maybe that's why she is writing me.

And they're thinking 'Oh, I'm still centre of his universe. This is useful. I'd better lay a guilt trip on him quickly to strengthen the master/slave bond.

NC is the only way out of this hell.

[infjEpic]

Yeah, she tried to drag me into a conversation after that asking how everything was on my end. I figured the best thing to do was say that she already knows how I feel and I don't want to get into it again. Of course she clarified saying she was asking about the kids, family, etc, but I think between last night and that message she just needs to know I'm missing her. I didn't give in and ended the conversation.  I doubt that's the last of it, but hopefully for the day or next several.

It never will be unfortunately.
It only ends, when the non makes a firm decision that they want to become psychologically whole and emotionally healthy again - and goes FULL NC.

[infjEpic]

I want to believe I would get all of the things we always talked about. We were awesome together when we actually get to see each other. She actually messaged me last night for the first time in 5 days saying Damn I miss you, and then called me around midnight. I didn't answer the message last night or pick up the phone because I was with someone else, but it makes me not want to move on and see what she wanted. I replied this morning in text saying I saw she messaged and called and hope everything is ok. I didn't want to bite on the I miss you stuff. Of course, now my head is a dumpster fire. She just told me to ignore it and was having a weak moment. And that she just wanted to hear my voice. I'm a mess

Yep. Been there. We all have.

They are masters at generating toxic guilt and shame within the non.

It's so mind boggling to a non, because in a non-disordered relationship, one would seek to talk, to at least achieve closure.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that in disordered relationship - maintaining contact is literally the same as choosing to drink a glass of poison.


Really hope you will have enough compassion for yourself to go NC, sooner than later, before the really serious damage is done.

[Ragnar1982]

Well I gave in and talked with her last night. She actually sent me a normal message. We talked a lot about our relationship, therapy, personality disorders. She was open to my concerns. She suggested again that she would like to seek relationship counseling with me. I agreed. She set the appointment up today and we go next week. My gut reaction was that she didn't set anything up, but I gave her the chance and I did receive email confirmation from the therapist. I'll see how that goes, but I have my eyes and ears open. I think I'll be able to tell if she is trying to control the situation, or if she is being genuinely open. Her scheduling the appointment seems like a good sign.

[infjEpic]

Well I gave in and talked with her last night. She actually sent me a normal message. We talked a lot about our relationship, therapy, personality disorders. She was open to my concerns. She suggested again that she would like to seek relationship counseling with me. I agreed. She set the appointment up today and we go next week. My gut reaction was that she didn't set anything up, but I gave her the chance and I did receive email confirmation from the therapist. I'll see how that goes, but I have my eyes and ears open. I think I'll be able to tell if she is trying to control the situation, or if she is being genuinely open. Her scheduling the appointment seems like a good sign.

Good luck. Stay safe.

[joeramabeme]

Well I gave in and talked with her last night. She actually sent me a normal message. We talked a lot about our relationship, therapy, personality disorders. She was open to my concerns. She suggested again that she would like to seek relationship counseling with me. I agreed. She set the appointment up today and we go next week. My gut reaction was that she didn't set anything up, but I gave her the chance and I did receive email confirmation from the therapist. I'll see how that goes, but I have my eyes and ears open. I think I'll be able to tell if she is trying to control the situation, or if she is being genuinely open. Her scheduling the appointment seems like a good sign.

Ragnar I see that you are following your heart which I applaud you for doing but I have a lingering question.  Why are you going to therapy to work through relationship issues with someone that lives with her boyfriend?   

but I have my eyes and ears open.
What are you waiting to see or hear? 

Have you thought about posting on the "Conflicted or Deciding" Board?  I ask because it doesn't sound like you have made a decision to detach.

[Ragnar1982]

Just an update. I met with her a couple days ago. We actually had a nice evening, but I felt strange. Like I was a different person around her. I haven't seen her in two month so the contrast in me was noticeable when I was with her. I feel like I fell for the manipulation and thought this was what I wanted. It's not! Yesterday I called her and said I was interested in pursuing someone else. Someone who I was going to let slip away to dive back into this mess with my ex. I had a moment of clarity, called my ex, and said this is it. It's over. I've found someone else better for me.

I blocked her on FB, deleted her number and blocked it, too. I feel really good about this.  This is my life and I want control of it. I did receive several messages from her friend last night concerning some belongings (gifts, mind you), but I did not reply. I also received an email from my ex this morning. I deleted it. Time to move on with confidence.

[joeramabeme]

Time to move on with confidence.

Congrats on the decision Ragnar, not an easy one to make.  We are here if you want to talk, feel tempted or anything else. 

There is no shame in whatever decisions you make for yourself.  Having these awareness's about yourself and BPD will bring you to a place of greater strength and more certainty in your decisions.

JRB

[Ragnar1982]

Thanks, Joe! I intend to keep popping by to share when appropriate. This has been a wild ride for me. Luckily I have someone to talk to who understands and supports me. I can't believe I almost walked away from her like a zombie. You're all wonderful people and have helped me tremendously!

[Kelli Cornett]

Wow, that will piss a BPD off... .I doubt she will ever talk to you again.

[joeramabeme]

Wow, that will piss a BPD off... .I doubt she will ever talk to you again.

letitbe223, what if she never talked with him again?  Would you think that is a good or bad thing?

[planet]

the triangle. ive been there. thats how my relationship started. i was the knight in shining armor and put up on that pedestal. unfortunately at a time in my life that i really needed it. i was leaving an empty emotional relationship and she filled me up with the opposite. i really felt as though it could work out. i thought i was different. i really love her. 
it came around full circle. in times of trouble she went and found others. other people to satiate her own feelings of abandonment. times when her perception was i was leaving her. when in fact, i was trying to move us forward. her encouragement and support to move forward in my divorce, was actually the moment when she left for real to find someone else. literally.
its unlikely she will ever move out. and if she does with your support, it will be the beginning to the end of yours.

[Ragnar1982]

Update: I have maintained NC since I told my ex I am interested in pursuing a different relationship that is healthier for me. I blocked her immediately after that conversation. That very night I received several messages from a friend of hers asking for bedding back. This was a gift, by the way. Since that night, my ex had emailed me at least 7 times. Sometimes about the bedding being returned, other times about how she loves me and will do anything, claiming she will move from her ex's house to be with me (she has said this before, and has gotten me back this way in the recent past). Last night more emails about how I know deep down inside that we are soulmates, and then again about the bedding. She seems to forget that when I broke things off she claimed that she was going to go out that night to get laid to numb herself, how she couldn't wait to have another man in her, and also how she will just try and work things out with her ex. She was all over the place, but I didn't react. I recognize that behavior for what it is, and the love bombing stuff is the same as always, but what's the deal with this bedding? Why is she so insistent about me giving it back to her? I'm sure it's driving her nuts thinking of me being in a relationship with someone else, in my bed with this new person, etc, which makes it even more weird to me that she would want this bedding back. Anyone experience this type of thing before with gifts? It's just strange to me.

[infjEpic]

Why is she so insistent about me giving it back to her? I'm sure it's driving her nuts thinking of me being in a relationship with someone else, in my bed with this new person, etc, which makes it even more weird to me that she would want this bedding back. Anyone experience this type of thing before with gifts? It's just strange to me.

The bedding probably has no significance, It's just a link which she can exploit and it's a very common tactic. It's a method to penetrate your NC defence.

I had stuff sent by courier back to my ex's parents house and paid a total stranger to hand her other items at her workplace.

I wouldn't personally risk any contact or being in her vicinity as this is when false allegations of violence and rape become a much greater risk for you.

[once removed]

what's the deal with this bedding?

being cut off is difficult to deal with. its anxiety inducing. when it occurs, people can get a bit desperate - "please talk to me. fine then, if you wont talk to me i want my bedding. please talk to me." its an effort to stave off the pain, reverse the rejection/cut off.

im not suggesting you made the wrong decision. im suggesting it is a common reaction to a sudden cut off. we see it with members here, too.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

[Ragnar1982]

That's what makes this so confusing. I thought for sure she'd be done with me after I told her I was pursuing  something else and that our relationship was broken. Especially after the things she said on the phone when I ended it. Now it seems as if she isn't even acknowledging any of that happened and just wants to see me and is using the gift as an excuse. I really do hate ignoring her, but not ignoring her leads us right back to the same place. We have recycled 7 or 8 times in a little over a year. I need a different life

[once removed]

I really do hate ignoring her, but not ignoring her leads us right back to the same place. We have recycled 7 or 8 times in a little over a year. I need a different life

thats self aware of you.

you have other options, like a BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm) note that explains you need some time and distance to yourself. it may be a case of whats done is done, but something to consider before/if things escalate.

[Ragnar1982]

Thanks for the advice. I may try that (again) if she flies off the handle. For now I'm letting it be. Hopefully she feels that my silence isn't punishment or vindictive. I'm just trying to put that vibe out there.